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  • ExistingFishExistingFish Member Posts: 1,109 Member Member Posts: 1,109 Member
    This article has a great visual for why we should wear masks. Petri dishes!

    https://www.fox5dc.com/news/masks-dont-reduce-your-oxygen-levels-doctor-debunks-facial-covering-claim-in-experiment

    The friend I walk with had settled down this week, but did say her husband found pictures online showing the size of the virus vs. standard weave of a fabric mask and was wondering what the point of wearing masks was since it could could obviously fit through... that the masks couldn’t block it at all. Had to explain that the mask doesn’t block the virus, it just keeps your droplets from spreading further than without it.

    That article is ridiculous, it isn't when you first put it on, it's after hours of wear that it reduces your oxygen level.

    This study has it's limitations, but it shows a reduction in blood oxygen and increase in pulse rate after 1 hour of surgical mask wear, especially for those over 35. It was on surgeons. It admittedly has limitations, but I'd put more stock in this limited study that than anecdotal "two minutes" in each mask example.

    http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf

    I've seen several of those "I put on ___ masks and look at my pulse ox! except...they don't wear them for an 8-hour or 12-hour shift. They wear them for two or five minutes. Sitting. And look how the public eats it up!
  • ExistingFishExistingFish Member Posts: 1,109 Member Member Posts: 1,109 Member
    I get that they were running, but there are lots of reasons a person would need to breathe heavy.

    https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/two-schoolboys-collapse-and-die-just-six-days-apart-in-china-while-wearing-face-masks-c-1017871

    Those kids just DIED from mask usage. Everyone says it is a lie that you can die from face masks, it isn't true. Those were kids.

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/15/wuhan-man-suffers-collapsed-running-while-running-with-face-mask/

    Again, I know they are recommended for exercise, but if it is capable of doing this to a person, you want to assure me it is safe and necessary?

    I get out of breath in my mask going up the stairs or carrying my 2-year-old to the bathroom, both are not excessively difficult, but they do cause me to strain against my mask for air.

    I follow local laws and regulations. I wear a mask when it is required of me. But I won't sit here and agree with people that it's harmless and safe and appropriate for all.
    edited July 15
  • ExistingFishExistingFish Member Posts: 1,109 Member Member Posts: 1,109 Member
    I get that they were running, but there are lots of reasons a person would need to breathe heavy.

    https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/two-schoolboys-collapse-and-die-just-six-days-apart-in-china-while-wearing-face-masks-c-1017871

    Those kids just DIED from mask usage. Everyone says it is a lie that you can die from face masks, it isn't true. Those were kids.

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/15/wuhan-man-suffers-collapsed-running-while-running-with-face-mask/

    Again, I know they are recommended for exercise, but if it is capable of doing this to a person, you want to assure me it is safe and necessary?

    I get out of breath in my mask going up the stairs or carrying my 2-year-old to the bathroom, both are not excessively difficult, but they do cause me to strain against my mask for air.

    I follow local laws and regulations. I wear a mask when it is required of me. But I won't sit here and agree with people that it's harmless and safe and appropriate for all.

    In that first story, it says that the father of one of the boys suspects that it was the mask, but that he refused an autopsy. We don't know enough to conclude that the masks are to blame. It's not unheard of for previously healthy young people to die suddenly during activity due to undiagnosed heart conditions. It's awful and tragic, but it happens even to people without masks.

    There were two boys, days apart.

    And the man? Healthy adult joggers routinely get collapsed lungs?
    edited July 15
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Member Posts: 7,945 Member Member Posts: 7,945 Member
    This article has a great visual for why we should wear masks. Petri dishes!

    https://www.fox5dc.com/news/masks-dont-reduce-your-oxygen-levels-doctor-debunks-facial-covering-claim-in-experiment

    The friend I walk with had settled down this week, but did say her husband found pictures online showing the size of the virus vs. standard weave of a fabric mask and was wondering what the point of wearing masks was since it could could obviously fit through... that the masks couldn’t block it at all. Had to explain that the mask doesn’t block the virus, it just keeps your droplets from spreading further than without it.

    That article is ridiculous, it isn't when you first put it on, it's after hours of wear that it reduces your oxygen level.

    This study has it's limitations, but it shows a reduction in blood oxygen and increase in pulse rate after 1 hour of surgical mask wear, especially for those over 35. It was on surgeons. It admittedly has limitations, but I'd put more stock in this limited study that than anecdotal "two minutes" in each mask example.

    http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf

    I've seen several of those "I put on ___ masks and look at my pulse ox! except...they don't wear them for an 8-hour or 12-hour shift. They wear them for two or five minutes. Sitting. And look how the public eats it up!

    @ExistingFish thanks for sharing the piece wearing masks for hours at a time impacts Oxygen levels in a negative way. I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact. A dash into WM is a different story because it may help reduce the spread in case of major coughing fit but maybe even more it reduces the risk of pushing emotionally stressed out people into causing others physical harm in this cracking mental health pandemic.
  • ExistingFishExistingFish Member Posts: 1,109 Member Member Posts: 1,109 Member
    This article has a great visual for why we should wear masks. Petri dishes!

    https://www.fox5dc.com/news/masks-dont-reduce-your-oxygen-levels-doctor-debunks-facial-covering-claim-in-experiment

    The friend I walk with had settled down this week, but did say her husband found pictures online showing the size of the virus vs. standard weave of a fabric mask and was wondering what the point of wearing masks was since it could could obviously fit through... that the masks couldn’t block it at all. Had to explain that the mask doesn’t block the virus, it just keeps your droplets from spreading further than without it.

    That article is ridiculous, it isn't when you first put it on, it's after hours of wear that it reduces your oxygen level.

    This study has it's limitations, but it shows a reduction in blood oxygen and increase in pulse rate after 1 hour of surgical mask wear, especially for those over 35. It was on surgeons. It admittedly has limitations, but I'd put more stock in this limited study that than anecdotal "two minutes" in each mask example.

    http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf

    I've seen several of those "I put on ___ masks and look at my pulse ox! except...they don't wear them for an 8-hour or 12-hour shift. They wear them for two or five minutes. Sitting. And look how the public eats it up!

    @ExistingFish thanks for sharing the piece wearing masks for hours at a time impacts Oxygen levels in a negative way. I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact. A dash into WM is a different story because it may help reduce the spread in case of major coughing fit but maybe even more it reduces the risk of pushing emotionally stressed out people into causing others physical harm in this cracking mental health pandemic.

    I don't think Walmart or Kroger or Target employees are given information about the impact of long term mask-wearing before their 8-hour shifts. I mean they probably take them off for breaks and lunch, but still.

    My sister is in healthcare and has to wear an N95 for her 12-hour shift, put it in a baggy, and wear it again the next day. Usually with a cloth mask over it, which makes it even harder to breathe.

    I guess you mean laypeople aren't wearing them all day, but employees in direct contact with the public are.
  • ExistingFishExistingFish Member Posts: 1,109 Member Member Posts: 1,109 Member
    ythannah wrote: »
    And then we have a successful competitive runner who has asthma and allergies, and wears a mask to filter out pollen.

    https://www.oregonlive.com/trackandfield/2011/06/what_in_the_world_is_galen_rup.html[url][/url]

    Pollen particles are quite large (droplet size) - I have good money his mask is designed to filter pollen, not down to the filtration level that surgical masks are or that covid masks are recommended to be.
    edited July 15
  • moonangel12moonangel12 Member, Premium Posts: 854 Member Member, Premium Posts: 854 Member
    This article has a great visual for why we should wear masks. Petri dishes!

    https://www.fox5dc.com/news/masks-dont-reduce-your-oxygen-levels-doctor-debunks-facial-covering-claim-in-experiment

    The friend I walk with had settled down this week, but did say her husband found pictures online showing the size of the virus vs. standard weave of a fabric mask and was wondering what the point of wearing masks was since it could could obviously fit through... that the masks couldn’t block it at all. Had to explain that the mask doesn’t block the virus, it just keeps your droplets from spreading further than without it.

    That article is ridiculous, it isn't when you first put it on, it's after hours of wear that it reduces your oxygen level.

    This study has it's limitations, but it shows a reduction in blood oxygen and increase in pulse rate after 1 hour of surgical mask wear, especially for those over 35. It was on surgeons. It admittedly has limitations, but I'd put more stock in this limited study that than anecdotal "two minutes" in each mask example.

    http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf

    I've seen several of those "I put on ___ masks and look at my pulse ox! except...they don't wear them for an 8-hour or 12-hour shift. They wear them for two or five minutes. Sitting. And look how the public eats it up!

    @ExistingFish thanks for sharing the piece wearing masks for hours at a time impacts Oxygen levels in a negative way. I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact. A dash into WM is a different story because it may help reduce the spread in case of major coughing fit but maybe even more it reduces the risk of pushing emotionally stressed out people into causing others physical harm in this cracking mental health pandemic.

    I don't think Walmart or Kroger or Target employees are given information about the impact of long term mask-wearing before their 8-hour shifts. I mean they probably take them off for breaks and lunch, but still.

    My sister is in healthcare and has to wear an N95 for her 12-hour shift, put it in a baggy, and wear it again the next day. Usually with a cloth mask over it, which makes it even harder to breathe.

    I guess you mean laypeople aren't wearing them all day, but employees in direct contact with the public are.

    And it’s not just medical personnel. My husband’s company provides packaging for hygiene goods - 12 hour shifts and they are required to wear a surgical mask (no n95) the entire time. Add in safety glasses that fog up (makes its own safety hazard), and then communication with earplugs, machinery, and masks muffling voices (also covering lips so no chance to read them) and it’s challenging. They have invested in communication equipment for on the floor, and he’s trying to find the balance of how strict to be with mask compliance (the guy with his nose peeking out while he is working alone, well away from anyone else? Getting easier for him to let that slide.)
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Member Posts: 7,945 Member Member Posts: 7,945 Member
    https://zerohedge.com/political/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-induced-adverse-reactions-more-half-trial-participants

    Finally we are getting in some early returns from a COVID-19 vaccine trial so over the next couple years we can expect the same for the many potential vaccines in the pipeline. Just the fact trails have started should be good for the mental health of millions.
  • ExistingFishExistingFish Member Posts: 1,109 Member Member Posts: 1,109 Member
    This article has a great visual for why we should wear masks. Petri dishes!

    https://www.fox5dc.com/news/masks-dont-reduce-your-oxygen-levels-doctor-debunks-facial-covering-claim-in-experiment

    The friend I walk with had settled down this week, but did say her husband found pictures online showing the size of the virus vs. standard weave of a fabric mask and was wondering what the point of wearing masks was since it could could obviously fit through... that the masks couldn’t block it at all. Had to explain that the mask doesn’t block the virus, it just keeps your droplets from spreading further than without it.

    That article is ridiculous, it isn't when you first put it on, it's after hours of wear that it reduces your oxygen level.

    This study has it's limitations, but it shows a reduction in blood oxygen and increase in pulse rate after 1 hour of surgical mask wear, especially for those over 35. It was on surgeons. It admittedly has limitations, but I'd put more stock in this limited study that than anecdotal "two minutes" in each mask example.

    http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf

    I've seen several of those "I put on ___ masks and look at my pulse ox! except...they don't wear them for an 8-hour or 12-hour shift. They wear them for two or five minutes. Sitting. And look how the public eats it up!

    @ExistingFish thanks for sharing the piece wearing masks for hours at a time impacts Oxygen levels in a negative way. I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact. A dash into WM is a different story because it may help reduce the spread in case of major coughing fit but maybe even more it reduces the risk of pushing emotionally stressed out people into causing others physical harm in this cracking mental health pandemic.

    I don't think Walmart or Kroger or Target employees are given information about the impact of long term mask-wearing before their 8-hour shifts. I mean they probably take them off for breaks and lunch, but still.

    My sister is in healthcare and has to wear an N95 for her 12-hour shift, put it in a baggy, and wear it again the next day. Usually with a cloth mask over it, which makes it even harder to breathe.

    I guess you mean laypeople aren't wearing them all day, but employees in direct contact with the public are.

    And it’s not just medical personnel. My husband’s company provides packaging for hygiene goods - 12 hour shifts and they are required to wear a surgical mask (no n95) the entire time. Add in safety glasses that fog up (makes its own safety hazard), and then communication with earplugs, machinery, and masks muffling voices (also covering lips so no chance to read them) and it’s challenging. They have invested in communication equipment for on the floor, and he’s trying to find the balance of how strict to be with mask compliance (the guy with his nose peeking out while he is working alone, well away from anyone else? Getting easier for him to let that slide.)

    In our state, they are only required when social distance cannot be practiced. That guy working alone? He's alone. I understand company policy may be stricter, but what is the point if you aren't around other people?
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Member Posts: 7,945 Member Member Posts: 7,945 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact.

    (1) I've not heard anyone in the group of people who wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts claiming they are dangerous. If they were, we would have heard about that before now, as that type of usage isn't COVID-specific, but job-specific. Specifically, health care workers.

    (2) State or local mask laws don't require people who wouldn't otherwise have to wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts to do so. They would require people in some service jobs to wear masks of some sort when on duty. (They have breaks.)

    (3) The people complaining about masks -- and most of the rest of us -- do not wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts. We wear masks (including homemade ones, it's not actually that easy to get surgical ones as they are still being reserved for health care workers) for shorter periods of time when in stores or when required on our jobs or when outside in a situation where social distancing is not possible. Pretty much all the people who have had fits about wearing masks are being asked to wear them when in a store they are in briefly.

    (4) Most people who work retail I've heard from are worried about their own health (and typically would like to have the ability to wear the most effective masks, but often can't), so appreciate it when they are able to do so, and especially when customers wear them too.

    You know the research did not say they were dangerous only Oxygen levels dropped to a degree and heart rate increased after a few hours when under the stress of work.

    Looks like the French are not pro maskers.

    https://nypost.com/2020/07/15/frances-macron-wife-confronted-by-protesters-on-bastille-day/
  • richardgavelrichardgavel Member Posts: 895 Member Member Posts: 895 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    So I see NY and NJ are requiring people coming in from 19 states to self quarantine or face fines.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-york-and-new-jersey-expand-list-of-states-that-trigger-quarantine-orders-for-travelers/ar-BB16ruw6?ocid=ientp

    Does anyone know how they possibly track this for automobile travel?

    Illinois also now has this requirement...but there is no way to track or enforce it, so they are relying on the "honor system".

    I saw the City of Chicago has such a rule, not the rest of the state though, unless it just came out today (a search doesn't pull it up though). Was thinking of visiting our son in TX and just staying around his house. He and his girlfriend have been taking this pretty seriously.

    You are correct, my mistake. Sometimes us Chicagoans forget that there is a "rest of the state" outside of the city. :D

    Are you sure about that? Not that the rule doesn't apply outside Chicago, but that there is a "rest of the state" outside Chicago 😜
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