Coronavirus prep

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  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    I'm following this whole WFH trend pretty close. Around 70% of my clients (I'm a headhunter) are the companies that put up the glass/metal on mid-rise and high-rise buildings across the US. I work with many of the top firms in NYC, Chicago, DC, Baltimore, Nashville, Philly and a few other cities. If we don't return to the offices (and I'm seeing signs of business pick back up), my business, at least on that side of it, will drop. I played a huge role in putting the teams together for Hudson Yards in NYC. It's not even completed yet and, from what I've heard, is like a ghost town compared to what it could be.

    I've wondered for a long time...long before COVID about the sustainability of expensive office space in high rises in big cities. Years ago I worked as a financial auditor for a local CPA firm in Albuquerque (a fairly large local firm) and we merged with Moss Adams, a medium sized western regional CPA firm based out of Seattle (mergers are so much fun...). When we would attend trainings, auditors from Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, LA, Phoenix, etc were all surprised that we occupied two floors of a mid rise in Uptown Albuquerque as, for the most part, if they weren't at a client's premises, they worked from home as office space was too much overhead. Most of the offices did have a small amount of office space which was primarily a conference room for face to face meetings with clients, and some cubicles if one needed to be in the office. That was over a decade ago...I left about 2 years after the merger and I think they cut back the office space here from two to one floor after I left, even though it's pretty cheap here in NM.

    My sister-in-law works for some swanky consulting firm in NYC and other than when she's at a client or traveling oversees to see a client, she's been working at home for about 15 years now. My brother-in-law is much the same...he's a senior manager for Deloite and he's either at home or in the field with a client.

    I've just wondered about this for a very long time.

    It's human nature, IMHO, to slack off a bit from home. While the opportunity is there to be way more productive, some can't. I would say 80% of people just can't work from home. I hate to sound cynical, but when I started my own recruiting firm, I paid people very non-traditionally with double or triple compensation of brick and mortar places. I also managed everyone remotely. Though they were 1099 (because of that, I could never require quotas or legally push metrics), I could see what everyone produced through the shared software. Even my own son and his best friend, neither of who I would consider lazy, couldn't produce 1/3 of the numbers I produce, though they had every tool I had starting in the business and way more (they had myself as a mentor -- when I started, I had no one). But I started in a boiler room environment with someone standing over my shoulder making sure I placed 50 to 60 calls a day (now it's different -- you use texts, emails and Linkedin, but there still are metrics). I had to tell my son and his friend (my last two recruiters) to find something different last year. They are both killing it selling solar in California now, when Covid doesn't prevent them from sales calls. Both of them needed an environment where someone was pushing numbers, just like I did years ago, every single day. Most businesses are finding the same thing.

    This may sound controversial, but WFH is something you have to prove and earn. It's tough to do and focus. I actually keep software that times my own productivity through the day and measures it. I hired a consultant just to track MY numbers and I own the company! I just find that helps me. If my numbers are off, I have a paid consultant questioning me at the end of the month. I know, sounds weird, but it works for me.

    [snip]

    @MikePfirrman, (or anyone) are you familiar with the time tracker HubStaff? I had a one time gig with a company who used that. I only worked a few hours a day, so it was super easy for me to focus. But although I was working continuously, I got scores like Activity = 70%, when I thought it should have been in the 90s. Since I'd always been an A student, this really bothered me.

    I was doing QC for a company in which the writers had English as a second language. I worked in their QC system and also spent some time documenting common grammatical and other errors in a Google doc. While my time in the Google doc may have been part of the problem, by the second part of the project I was no longer documenting and 100% in their system.

    I haven't heard of that, I typically use WorkScape, though it has a lot of flaws as well.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited December 2020
    Redordeadhead wrote: »
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    amart4224 wrote: »
    Millennials "have never been through an economic downturn"? I beg to differ. Millennials currently make up adults ages 24-40, approximately. A good number of us were already out in the workforce when the 2007-2008 recession hit.

    Millennials are around 39 tops now. 12 years ago they were 27. Every single company wants someone with five years of experience or less in the worst of times. The market is still decent for cheaper employees, as it always is in harder times. No one in that age group had a harder time in the last recession finding a job. They were the ones displacing older employees in droves. But you're right, I'm more referring to the younger ones in that group that are finding themselves unemployed for the first time ever. It's not easy to go from a hot job market where everyone is fighting over you (if you have certain skills) to the opposite.

    This is simply not true. You can't generalise that "every single company" wants anything or "no one" had a harder time finding a job. Where I work, for example, it's almost impossible to get a job without several years of experience.

    That is my experience. I'm just sharing what I know. I have 13 job requisitions right now. 12 of those are someone that has "just a couple of years of experience". All "assistants" or "junior level". Now, I don't get paid a fee for entry level, so I'm not sure what the job market is for recent grads, but I've heard it's not that terrible. I'll change my wording to "every single company I deal with...". Even the "senior" position I'm filling isn't really all that senior level.

    Now, if I get a call today to fill a C-Suite position, obviously this changes, but for now, every single position is someone that would likely be a millennial or a Gen Z (but more likely a millennial).
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    PSA for all those who are WFH and hoping to do it at least part time long term, for the love of all that is good, get yourself (whether employer pays or your do) a real desk (preferably height adjustable to allow standing), monitor, external keyboard and mouse. And learn how to adjust all of it for proper position.

    As a long term office worker I've had numerous orthopedic injuries/surgeries the doctor can trace back to poor office ergonomics even though the company I work for has always bought high end Steelcase office furniture.

    She looks all happy now but this position is beating the hell out of her body and setting her up for a bunch of problems.
    0bqmw3fzb4xd.png

    Went to Costco with the wife (against my will!) on the weekend. At least we went very early on Sunday morning before it was a mad rush. They had a solid looking standing desk for a pretty reasonable price. One of those that adjusts so you can sit or stand. Our daughter is coming home on Friday for a few months (she's working from home). If I hadn't already bought her a desk for our guest room, I would have bought this one. It looked great.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,496 Member
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    PSA for all those who are WFH and hoping to do it at least part time long term, for the love of all that is good, get yourself (whether employer pays or your do) a real desk (preferably height adjustable to allow standing), monitor, external keyboard and mouse. And learn how to adjust all of it for proper position.

    As a long term office worker I've had numerous orthopedic injuries/surgeries the doctor can trace back to poor office ergonomics even though the company I work for has always bought high end Steelcase office furniture.

    She looks all happy now but this position is beating the hell out of her body and setting her up for a bunch of problems.
    0bqmw3fzb4xd.png

    Went to Costco with the wife (against my will!) on the weekend. At least we went very early on Sunday morning before it was a mad rush. They had a solid looking standing desk for a pretty reasonable price. One of those that adjusts so you can sit or stand. Our daughter is coming home on Friday for a few months (she's working from home). If I hadn't already bought her a desk for our guest room, I would have bought this one. It looked great.

    We actually bought the electric adjustable desk you're probably talking about for our son Sunday. He has a table he likes for his apartment so we also bought a $100 adjustable platform that sits on a regular desk or table. We wlll let him take his pick.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    PSA for all those who are WFH and hoping to do it at least part time long term, for the love of all that is good, get yourself (whether employer pays or your do) a real desk (preferably height adjustable to allow standing), monitor, external keyboard and mouse. And learn how to adjust all of it for proper position.

    As a long term office worker I've had numerous orthopedic injuries/surgeries the doctor can trace back to poor office ergonomics even though the company I work for has always bought high end Steelcase office furniture.

    She looks all happy now but this position is beating the hell out of her body and setting her up for a bunch of problems.
    0bqmw3fzb4xd.png

    Amen! I used to work at a small liberal arts college that forced us to learn about ergonomics whether we wanted to or not, and have been conscious of that ever since.

    I had lower back pain for decades that finally went away after I started using a high end office chair, which my employer let me take with me when I moved in 2011. At that time, I had no problem finding an ergonomic yet inexpensive computer desk on Craig's List, but sure would not be wanting to look for one there this year.

    My OH will sometimes let our cat trap him in weird positions as he doesn't like to move World's Most Spoiled Cat off his lap. The other day, being in an odd position due to this caused a tension headache that plagued him for oh, a painful 8 hours or so.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    PSA for all those who are WFH and hoping to do it at least part time long term, for the love of all that is good, get yourself (whether employer pays or your do) a real desk (preferably height adjustable to allow standing), monitor, external keyboard and mouse. And learn how to adjust all of it for proper position.

    As a long term office worker I've had numerous orthopedic injuries/surgeries the doctor can trace back to poor office ergonomics even though the company I work for has always bought high end Steelcase office furniture.

    She looks all happy now but this position is beating the hell out of her body and setting her up for a bunch of problems.
    0bqmw3fzb4xd.png

    Hope the disagree on this post was an accidental scroll-by, because the post itself is so true. I worked in IT. Our department had multiple people developing cumulative-stress pain & injuries from office work, until we trained a smart staff member in ergonomic office set-up, and empowered her to order what people needed and help put it in place. Pretty soon, we stopped seeing the wrist braces, new workers' comp claims, and other signs of employee injury/distress. Big payoff for everyone.

    As you know Ann, I do a ton of indoor rowing. I've had disk issues for nearly two years now. I'm battling through them, but how it started was a terrible desk chair. When I moved last year and put it back together, I noticed then that the cushion of it on the bottom was uneven. I had never had a problem with the thoracic area of my spine before. At first I thought rowing was to blame, but after noticing how I was askew at my desk, the chair had a lot more to do with my disc. It's mostly better now, but I will never buy the cheapest chair again. An exercise ball is a great alternative to a cheap desk chair, if someone can't afford a decent ergonomic chair.

    I think my present one, which is great, was like $150. That's about as cheap as you can find a decent one.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    Speaking of millennials out of work:

    Oregon Nurse Loses Job, Agrees to Stop Practicing After TikTok Mocking COVID Restrictions

    eadee6baba922bcfa1a81d26ac85dc31.jpg
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,204 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    PSA for all those who are WFH and hoping to do it at least part time long term, for the love of all that is good, get yourself (whether employer pays or your do) a real desk (preferably height adjustable to allow standing), monitor, external keyboard and mouse. And learn how to adjust all of it for proper position.

    As a long term office worker I've had numerous orthopedic injuries/surgeries the doctor can trace back to poor office ergonomics even though the company I work for has always bought high end Steelcase office furniture.

    She looks all happy now but this position is beating the hell out of her body and setting her up for a bunch of problems.
    0bqmw3fzb4xd.png

    Hope the disagree on this post was an accidental scroll-by, because the post itself is so true. I worked in IT. Our department had multiple people developing cumulative-stress pain & injuries from office work, until we trained a smart staff member in ergonomic office set-up, and empowered her to order what people needed and help put it in place. Pretty soon, we stopped seeing the wrist braces, new workers' comp claims, and other signs of employee injury/distress. Big payoff for everyone.

    As you know Ann, I do a ton of indoor rowing. I've had disk issues for nearly two years now. I'm battling through them, but how it started was a terrible desk chair. When I moved last year and put it back together, I noticed then that the cushion of it on the bottom was uneven. I had never had a problem with the thoracic area of my spine before. At first I thought rowing was to blame, but after noticing how I was askew at my desk, the chair had a lot more to do with my disc. It's mostly better now, but I will never buy the cheapest chair again. An exercise ball is a great alternative to a cheap desk chair, if someone can't afford a decent ergonomic chair.

    I think my present one, which is great, was like $150. That's about as cheap as you can find a decent one.

    Chair is a important but I still had back issues with Steelcase desk chairs that were $800 each when my company was buying 100s at at time when redoing offices. To me it was just the 8-10 hours a day locked in one position.

    If one thinks about it the time spend in a poor posture 8-10 hours a day is most likely going to have a bigger impact on how the body feels vs 1-2 hours of exercise.

    That's why I firmly believe in the importance of movement. Need to try and counteract the modern lifestyle.

    This is from both memory and relative ignorance, but (while we did buy a bunch of better chairs), some of the more effective changes our department made were cheaper: Keyboard trays, monitor stands, and (a biggie) just getting all the parts in the right alignment with the person's body, in a 3D kind of way. Of course, this was in an office so everyone already had desk-equivalents (cubicle stuff, so the main work surfaces were height-adjustable . . . but if your monitor and keyboard and mouse are all sitting on the same surface, there's probably already a problem).

    Laptops or tablets are kind of inherently a problem, I think, putting at least one aspect in the wrong place at all times. (Less so if not key/gesture controlled.)

    In the past, I've MacGyver-ed some set-up at home using items around the house as monitor risers or keyboard surfaces, to improve my own situation when I was using the computer a lot.


  • spiriteagle99
    spiriteagle99 Posts: 3,743 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    A moment of dark irony in an interview I heard today**: One factor that has speeded Covid vaccine development is that some countries have done an execrable job of containing the virus. (US is the poster child, of course.) If everywhere were controlling well (like Australia, for one), the phase 3 trials would take longer.

    Why? The more rampant the viral infections in the population, the faster evidence accumulates that there's a difference in the vaccinated vs. placebo arms of the trial, because more people are getting exposed/sick, rolling up the evidentiary case counts among trial participants.

    I assume it's an extra plus (for the trials' speed, not for the country) that it's running rampant in a developed country, with more resources for keeping track of trial participants and that sort of thing.

    ** It was a good interview, diverse topics related to the virus. NPR's "Fresh Air" program, interviewing Ed Yong, a science journalist from The Atlantic who's been covering the pandemic long term. Full interview audio, text summary: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/17/947094492/without-resources-vaccine-rollout-could-fall-at-the-last-hurdle-journalist-says

    Back in early summer, I read a couple of articles stating that the British trials were in trouble because the number of cases had dropped so much they couldn't be sure of sufficient exposure. With the second wave, hopefully enough of the vaccinated got exposed to the virus to show effectiveness. I can see why it would be a problem. How can they know a vaccine is 95% effective if there aren't many cases in the community? Ethics doesn't permit the researchers to deliberately expose people to a virus that might kill them or have long term consequences, so they have to rely on community spread.
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,301 Member
    From what I understand, trials of the vaccine in the UK would have taken so long to show much so because this is a big international effort many of the trials were carried off shore. I think some may well have taken place in Brazil, though it may well have been somewhere else in the southern Americas. It was somewhere where the cases and "R" number and cases were much higher than our own.

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