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  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Member Posts: 7,879 Member Member Posts: 7,879 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact.

    (1) I've not heard anyone in the group of people who wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts claiming they are dangerous. If they were, we would have heard about that before now, as that type of usage isn't COVID-specific, but job-specific. Specifically, health care workers.

    (2) State or local mask laws don't require people who wouldn't otherwise have to wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts to do so. They would require people in some service jobs to wear masks of some sort when on duty. (They have breaks.)

    (3) The people complaining about masks -- and most of the rest of us -- do not wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts. We wear masks (including homemade ones, it's not actually that easy to get surgical ones as they are still being reserved for health care workers) for shorter periods of time when in stores or when required on our jobs or when outside in a situation where social distancing is not possible. Pretty much all the people who have had fits about wearing masks are being asked to wear them when in a store they are in briefly.

    (4) Most people who work retail I've heard from are worried about their own health (and typically would like to have the ability to wear the most effective masks, but often can't), so appreciate it when they are able to do so, and especially when customers wear them too.

    You know the research did not say they were dangerous only Oxygen levels dropped to a degree and heart rate increased after a few hours when under the stress of work.

    Looks like the French are not pro maskers.

    https://nypost.com/2020/07/15/frances-macron-wife-confronted-by-protesters-on-bastille-day/
  • richardgavelrichardgavel Member Posts: 882 Member Member Posts: 882 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    So I see NY and NJ are requiring people coming in from 19 states to self quarantine or face fines.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-york-and-new-jersey-expand-list-of-states-that-trigger-quarantine-orders-for-travelers/ar-BB16ruw6?ocid=ientp

    Does anyone know how they possibly track this for automobile travel?

    Illinois also now has this requirement...but there is no way to track or enforce it, so they are relying on the "honor system".

    I saw the City of Chicago has such a rule, not the rest of the state though, unless it just came out today (a search doesn't pull it up though). Was thinking of visiting our son in TX and just staying around his house. He and his girlfriend have been taking this pretty seriously.

    You are correct, my mistake. Sometimes us Chicagoans forget that there is a "rest of the state" outside of the city. :D

    Are you sure about that? Not that the rule doesn't apply outside Chicago, but that there is a "rest of the state" outside Chicago 😜
  • ExistingFishExistingFish Member Posts: 1,048 Member Member Posts: 1,048 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact.

    (1) I've not heard anyone in the group of people who wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts claiming they are dangerous. If they were, we would have heard about that before now, as that type of usage isn't COVID-specific, but job-specific. Specifically, health care workers.

    (2) State or local mask laws don't require people who wouldn't otherwise have to wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts to do so. They would require people in some service jobs to wear masks of some sort when on duty. (They have breaks.)

    (3) The people complaining about masks -- and most of the rest of us -- do not wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts. We wear masks (including homemade ones, it's not actually that easy to get surgical ones as they are still being reserved for health care workers) for shorter periods of time when in stores or when required on our jobs or when outside in a situation where social distancing is not possible. Pretty much all the people who have had fits about wearing masks are being asked to wear them when in a store they are in briefly.

    (4) Most people who work retail I've heard from are worried about their own health (and typically would like to have the ability to wear the most effective masks, but often can't), so appreciate it when they are able to do so, and especially when customers wear them too.

    My sister is concerned the mask policy and usage puts her at risk. She's in healthcare. She said she feels she should be able to take her mask off between patients (for breathing) and get clean ones for each patient like she should. She is dictated by her job. Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean they aren't there - most of them probably aren't complaining. It doesn't mean they are concerned.
  • ExistingFishExistingFish Member Posts: 1,048 Member Member Posts: 1,048 Member
    I wear cloth masks at work, started with disposables, for 8-10 hours, depending on how much work there is. And while company policy allows me to take it off at my desk when nobody is within 6 feet, I keep it on except to take a drink or when I eat lunch (I go to my car for lunch). I haven't had any issues breathing through a mask for hours on end.

    The keyword here - desk. You sit for work.

    I wondered why I saw all the stockers at Kroger with their masks pushed down, I understand it now.

    I have difficulty breathing when I have to go upstairs. I have healthy lungs. By difficulty, I mean I'm sucking the mask into my mouth trying to get air faster than it will allow. I can't imagine working in a warehouse doing physical labor and wearing a mask. I had to carry my 2-year-old to the bathroom last Sunday at church and I had difficulty breathing through my 2-layer cotton mask.
  • ExistingFishExistingFish Member Posts: 1,048 Member Member Posts: 1,048 Member
    I wear cloth masks at work, started with disposables, for 8-10 hours, depending on how much work there is. And while company policy allows me to take it off at my desk when nobody is within 6 feet, I keep it on except to take a drink or when I eat lunch (I go to my car for lunch). I haven't had any issues breathing through a mask for hours on end.

    The keyword here - desk. You sit for work.

    I wondered why I saw all the stockers at Kroger with their masks pushed down, I understand it now.

    I have difficulty breathing when I have to go upstairs. I have healthy lungs. By difficulty, I mean I'm sucking the mask into my mouth trying to get air faster than it will allow. I can't imagine working in a warehouse doing physical labor and wearing a mask. I had to carry my 2-year-old to the bathroom last Sunday at church and I had difficulty breathing through my 2-layer cotton mask.

    I do keep the mask on when I go up / down stairs (I'm on the 2nd floor of 2). Sure, it only happens roughly 5-10 times in a typical day, but it doesn't seem to affect my breathing whatsoever.

    I don't run with a mask these days and I rarely get close to anyone else outside anyway. But early on, I did run with a mask and it was slightly more difficult to breathe while running. Walking around stores, it isn't enough difference to even notice.

    Maybe it's the kid corralling that is doing it to me. It only seems to happen when I'm with the kids. Either way, I don't like literally sucking my mask into my mouth because I'm trying to breathe.

    Still wearing it though.
  • TonyB0588TonyB0588 Member Posts: 8,870 Member Member Posts: 8,870 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    I've told some stories here to vent about bad experiences. Here's a more positive one.

    My local bedroom-community post office has two stations at the counter, fortunately about 6 feet apart. Since precautions went into effect, they changed the traffic pattern so we go into the full-windowed small foyer then through one door (that used to be mostly for PO box access), into a line (with Xes on the floor at 6 foot distances) . Then people get called up to a counter where there's a plastic barrier above a pass-through space for packages & credit card swipe access. After service, one leaves out a 2nd door to the same full-visibility foyer as the in-door.

    Last time I was there, the two rather petite, properly masked counter women would each finish with a customer, step up on something (stepstool?) behind the counter, reach over to spray the customer side of the counter & the card swiper with cleaner, wipe it with a cloth, step back into her spot, then call up the next customer to stand on the service X in front of her counter. Consistent, for each customer.

    I don't see how they could do it better, or faster. Really good, from my perspective, best I could expect.

    Lovely. This is almost exactly what happens in the banks where I am. Except it's not the ladies behind the counter doing the cleaning. We have someone on the customer side of the counter watching to see when each transaction is finished, quickly running over to spray and wipe, then the next customer is allowed to move forward.

    Before this though, every customer must be wearing a mask in order to be allowed entry, temperature checked with a digital thermometer at the door, and hands sanitized before being allowed to join the line standing 6ft (2 meters) apart.
  • TonyB0588TonyB0588 Member Posts: 8,870 Member Member Posts: 8,870 Member
    Here in Illinois, the governor's mandate has been overturned - the law only allows for a 30 day public health mandate, and it's been in effect for 3x that long - and after that, my workplace has finally requested that employees wear masks. Not that they're doing a particularly good job of enforcing it, though. Supervisors have been required to wear masks for at least a month, and they've been wearing them mostly on their chins, not covering any of their breathing holes. That seems to be about the level of compliance they're seeking with employees, too. There are 3 theories: 1) The employee that caught Covid19 (just one!) died... 2) It's to shut up the employees that are asking for hazard pay... 3) It's tied to some of our coworkers vacationing in states that a new mandate requires a 2 week quarantine when returning from (but there are exemptions for essential workers, anyway, and UPS is not giving an extra 2 weeks off work just to quarantine.)

    After the mask requirement at work (Wednesday) a union representative had a table set up by the door with a petition for hazard pay. So, that seems to point to theory #2. That doesn't mean we're not all curious whatever happened to the driver that got sick... If it's a breach of HIPAA to tell us if he's died, I guess passing a card and collecting donations for the widow would be, too. I don't socialize with the drivers, so I don't even know which one has been absent for the past 6 weeks.

    With coworkers vacationing in Florida and New Jersey and returning to work with their naked faces and lack of social distancing, it's a wonder that more of us haven't gotten sick. I stopped wearing my masks at the beginning of June, when it started being 90 degrees inside, and volume picked up so that we were working twice the hours. After all, my mask protects all those other jerks and their lack of mask doesn't protect me... The extra discomfort isn't worthwhile in those circumstances. I've taken to spending my breaks in place so that nobody comes within 6 feet to socialize with me. My antisocial tendencies are serving me well.

    Back in March, I asked not to work at the bay I had previously worked at, because there's no room to social distance, and my supervisors have mostly honored my request. But due to the nature of the work, we change bays as the trucks arrive, and at least once a week I spend at least half an hour less than 2 feet from the next guy. I still figure I'm more likely to bring it to work than catch it there - my husband still works at the hospital, after all - but they're no longer having daily briefings, and they've stopped telling him to expect to catch it.

    I have not used hand sanitizer a single time since this madness started. I do my best not to touch my face, but since I'm taking the mask off to drink water every 15 minutes or so, so I don't dehydrate, I don't think I'm doing a great job of that. There's a single large container of hand sanitizer next to the bathroom that it is not feasible to visit every time I have to unmask to drink - besides, if I'm Right There, I'll just go in and wash with soap. The best part of this whole mess is that we've had paper towels and soap regularly since March. That's where they keep the wipes, too. Guess how often the equipment gets wiped, then? The SHARED equipment. Yeah.

    Anyway, I guess think about that when you collect your packages from the front porch. We're choosing between keeping the PPE on, or keeping hydrated. The masks are definitely interfering with my hydration strategy.

    So, here’s the thing about hand sanitizer. According to CDC guidelines, we are supposed to clean our hands when donning masks, and again before doffing them, and again after taking them off. Now, when I’m in my car, about to go into a grocery store, I don’t have soap and water, so hand sanitizer, it is. Put on the mask, sanitize. Do the shopping, sanitize. Check out? Sanitize. Get the groceries loaded? Sanitize and take the blasted mask off.

    People laugh at folks wearing their masks in their car on the highway and all I can think is that maybe they didn’t have sanitizer on them. 🤷‍♀️

    Wow!! That makes it more complicated than I realized. We keep sanitizer and wipes in the car. I use the sanitizer after returning from touching the keypad at the bank ATM. The I might occasionally wipe the steering wheel and door handles with the wipes. I actually saw a lady take her wipes with her to the ATM to disinfect the keypad before touching it. I also know a lady who washes her money everytime she gets cash. 🤔
  • TonyB0588TonyB0588 Member Posts: 8,870 Member Member Posts: 8,870 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    Did everybody see the bus driver who was assaulted by a couple people, all over mask requirements; he died due to extensive brain injuries. :( WTF is wrong with people???? They need extensive jail time, hopefully in a Covid ward of some kind. I'm sorry, I wouldn't wish Covid on my enemies but really, to me that'd be justice working at its best.

    Is that the one in France? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/french-bus-driver-beaten-death-after-asking-passengers-wear-face-n1233603

    I recall being surprised that stuff like that was apparently happening there too.

    A friend of mine took the bus recently, and she said most were wearing them, but not all. I wish the drivers were enforcing them here, or refusing to let people on. Possibly some are, some aren't.

    Unfortunately the driver would rather take a chance with the possible virus vs possible physical altercation.

    I don't think a physical altercation would be very likely here (you can't get on until you pay, you can't get on without a mask), at least not in the places I've taken buses. My friend said most people were wearing them, and the bus crowd tends to be older on average. Maybe in some parts of the South and West sides it would be different.

    I went to the post office downtown last week and had to ask for help finding a package at the desk. There are big signs that masks are required, and everyone was wearing them and standing on the dots that social distance those in line, but then some young woman with a bike (I also doubt bikes are allowed in the building) came up and stood right next to me without a mask. I moved sideways to get away from her (I was at the counter being helped, not in line), but didn't say anything because I am conflict avoidant in public and wasn't really in the mood for the "okay, Karen" or whatever thing she was likely to say, but I was slightly annoyed their security didn't tell her to put a mask on. But since I didn't say anything, I can't really complain, I suppose. I always find it surprising when people are just so blatant in disregarding the rules, though, since I can't imagine doing that.

    How does that work? Is the farebox attached to the outside of the bus? The places I've used buses, the fareboxes are inside the bus, next to the driver so s/he can see if you pay or not. And if you can't get on if you're not wearing a mask, does that mean that all the mask-wearers at a stop with one non-mask-wearer gets left behind? All the scenarios I'm imagining where this works involves a level of compliance that I wouldn't expect from someone who has already decided not to mask (e.g., the door opens for the mask-wearers, and the non-mask-wearer just doesn't get on because they're not supposed to).

    Even before COVID19, a bus driver here would simply drive to the nearest police station if they were contentious persons on board. Don't know if that would work in your area, but worth a try.
  • ExistingFishExistingFish Member Posts: 1,048 Member Member Posts: 1,048 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I've tested with my oximeter before and after wearing a cloth mask at work for 2-3 hours, including walking up a hill and stairs and restocking the break room. No change.

    At times when I would typically be breathing hard it was a little uncomfortable but I was still able to catch my breath. Obviously just anecdotal but I have seen several doctors and nurses and say that people who struggle to breathe wearing a mask are claustrophobic and having a minor panic attack, and that even asthmatics and COPD patients can safely wear a mask.

    Considering folks in emergency medicine have been wearing masks for extended periods of time for many decades, you would think if it was even remotely dangerous there would be numerous wide-ranging studies showing proven adverse health effects. It is also quite common in other countries during flu season, yet there is no international call to avoid masks. Seems odd if they are a health risk.

    Essential workers should at least be getting breaks throughout the day where they can get a couple of minutes of fresh air. If not, the issue isn't that mask directives are a problem but that their employer is mistreating them. Which I'm sure is happening by the way.

    In my office we are required to wear a mask whenever we are within 6 ft of another person and whenever it's reasonable to think you could be, like in the hallway. It's a small building, so that pretty much means all the time, except when I'm in my office with the door closed.

    I have always been able to catch my breath, but sucking in air hard enough to bring the mask to my mouth - which puts it far more danger of getting wet - which isn't good for it.

    I'm not claustrophobic, and I know what panic attacks feel like. I have had them.

    I just do my best to limit instances where I need them. Grocery shopping once a week. No extra outings.
    edited July 16
  • lokihenlokihen Member Posts: 217 Member Member Posts: 217 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I've tested with my oximeter before and after wearing a cloth mask at work for 2-3 hours, including walking up a hill and stairs and restocking the break room. No change.

    At times when I would typically be breathing hard it was a little uncomfortable but I was still able to catch my breath. Obviously just anecdotal but I have seen several doctors and nurses and say that people who struggle to breathe wearing a mask are claustrophobic and having a minor panic attack, and that even asthmatics and COPD patients can safely wear a mask.

    Considering folks in emergency medicine have been wearing masks for extended periods of time for many decades, you would think if it was even remotely dangerous there would be numerous wide-ranging studies showing proven adverse health effects. It is also quite common in other countries during flu season, yet there is no international call to avoid masks. Seems odd if they are a health risk.

    Essential workers should at least be getting breaks throughout the day where they can get a couple of minutes of fresh air. If not, the issue isn't that mask directives are a problem but that their employer is mistreating them. Which I'm sure is happening by the way.

    In my office we are required to wear a mask whenever we are within 6 ft of another person and whenever it's reasonable to think you could be, like in the hallway. It's a small building, so that pretty much means all the time, except when I'm in my office with the door closed.

    I have always been able to catch my breath, but sucking in air hard enough to bring the mask to my mouth - which puts it far more danger of getting wet - which isn't good for it.

    I'm not claustrophobic, and I know what panic attacks feel like. I have had them.

    I just do my best to limit instances where I need them. Grocery shopping once a week. No extra outings.

    Why not change the mask so it can't be sucked in? Some sort of stiffening material sewn on or get the ones that look more like a duck's bill.
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