Coronavirus prep
Replies
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My DIL is a nurse on a Covid floor at a nearby hospital that had one of the first known cases in the USA (WA St). I did a video chat with her yesterday and my heart is just breaking. She looked shell shocked. Normally she's a very upbeat positive person. They are almost out of beds. She got a vaccine about 2 weeks ago, thank God.
Last summer I got the impression that she thought I was overreacting with my precautions, not going indoors at public places or other's homes, not letting anyone inside my home, placing hand sanitizer on the porch... even sanitizing my mail. Now, she says she wishes everyone was being as paranoid OCD as me. I'm 63, overweight with high blood pressure and my spouse is a 70 yr old asthmatic, we're just trying to stay alive until we get the vaccine. We can't even determine when that might be.20 -
It’s sad. A friend of my daughters (mid 30’s) 4 year old was diagnosed with covid this week. February 2020 her infant had heart surgery. Just before Thanksgiving her husband had a kidney transplant. How much can one family take?20
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missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??
If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
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paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??
If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
No, the Pfizer (extreme cold) is one of the vaccines being distributed in the U.S.4 -
Apparently, Europe is considering only giving the first dose of the vaccine on the premise that some protection for many is better than full protection for a few.
Personally, I'd prefer to see the frontline healthcare workers and elderly get full protection.
Where did you read that? I'm in Europe, and I've heard nothing about this.2 -
paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??
If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
No, the Pfizer (extreme cold) is one of the vaccines being distributed in the U.S.
And in Canada. It's being distributed at hospitals as apparently they're the only facilities with the required extreme cold storage.
Northern and remote communities, and the territories, lack the ability to store it and will be getting the Moderna vaccine.5 -
Ok, that does have logistical issues then - of special storage facilities and separate locations to access it
I wonder why they dont all use the Moderna vaccine if that can be kept at regular vaccine temps.1 -
GummiMundi wrote: »Apparently, Europe is considering only giving the first dose of the vaccine on the premise that some protection for many is better than full protection for a few.
Personally, I'd prefer to see the frontline healthcare workers and elderly get full protection.
Where did you read that? I'm in Europe, and I've heard nothing about this.
It was in a DW News report.1 -
paperpudding wrote: »Ok, that does have logistical issues then - of special storage facilities and separate locations to access it
I wonder why they dont all use the Moderna vaccine if that can be kept at regular vaccine temps.
Supply.
If they could produce a sufficient quantity of a moderate-temp storable vaccine to administer to the same number of people in the same amount of time, they would. But inherently, they can't . . . because producing the two different vaccines each at maximum rate is more vaccine than producing one vaccine at maximum rate, for now at least. While the US is underperforming at doing it, the objective is to get as many people vaccinated as possible as quickly as possible, so it's worth going through some gyrations with temp-sensitive vaccines to accomplish that.16 -
paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??
If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
Thank you for educating me, but I’m aware of the protocol in place for vaccines kept at below freezing temperatures.
My concern is with the human error element. Intentional or unintentional. I’ve been concerned about this from the beginning.
Case in point, a pharmacist at a hospital in Wisconsin, who intentionally left vaccines out, well past the time for effectiveness. He knowingly gave the vaccine to almost 60 people and hundreds of vaccines had to be destroyed. He was fired, arrested, and the FBI is involved.
Human error happens, and could happen anywhere along the way. From manufacturing through administering.
As Ann stated, supply is the issue for both of the vaccines that have been approved for use in the US. There are a lot of people in the world and not enough vaccine to go around. There’s no easy solution. Health care workers, first responders, and over age 75 people at senior care facilities are first recipients, as they should be.4 -
GummiMundi wrote: »Apparently, Europe is considering only giving the first dose of the vaccine on the premise that some protection for many is better than full protection for a few.
Personally, I'd prefer to see the frontline healthcare workers and elderly get full protection.
Where did you read that? I'm in Europe, and I've heard nothing about this.
I’m in the UK, and having my first dose of vaccine this afternoon (frontline health worker). I’ve been told my second dose will be within 3-12 weeks. Apparently the second dose should be given a minimum of 3 weeks after the first so it’s okay for it to be a bit longer and this way more people can get their first dose more quickly. There was something on the BBC news website that you might be able to look up.14 -
greyhoundwalker wrote: »GummiMundi wrote: »Apparently, Europe is considering only giving the first dose of the vaccine on the premise that some protection for many is better than full protection for a few.
Personally, I'd prefer to see the frontline healthcare workers and elderly get full protection.
Where did you read that? I'm in Europe, and I've heard nothing about this.
I’m in the UK, and having my first dose of vaccine this afternoon (frontline health worker). I’ve been told my second dose will be within 3-12 weeks. Apparently the second dose should be given a minimum of 3 weeks after the first so it’s okay for it to be a bit longer and this way more people can get their first dose more quickly. There was something on the BBC news website that you might be able to look up.
Thanks @lokihen and @greyhoundwalker
I've read about it this morning, but it was only being talked about in UK, not in all of Europe.3 -
Stimulus checks going out. Hopefully those not finanially impaced by this will donate to a good cause.6
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missysippy930 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??
If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
Thank you for educating me, but I’m aware of the protocol in place for vaccines kept at below freezing temperatures.
My concern is with the human error element. Intentional or unintentional. I’ve been concerned about this from the beginning.
Case in point, a pharmacist at a hospital in Wisconsin, who intentionally left vaccines out, well past the time for effectiveness. He knowingly gave the vaccine to almost 60 people and hundreds of vaccines had to be destroyed. He was fired, arrested, and the FBI is involved.
Human error happens, and could happen anywhere along the way. From manufacturing through administering.
As Ann stated, supply is the issue for both of the vaccines that have been approved for use in the US. There are a lot of people in the world and not enough vaccine to go around. There’s no easy solution. Health care workers, first responders, and over age 75 people at senior care facilities are first recipients, as they should be.
Your post sounds sarcastic toward me, not sure why or if I am misinterpreting that. - my post wasnt directed at educating you in particular.
I dont see why there would be more opportunity or likelihood of human error, accidental or deliberate, with this vaccine than any other vaccine or medication which has storage requirements.
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https://nypost.com/2021/01/01/alarming-number-of-us-health-care-workers-are-refusing-covid-19-vaccine/
This may be alarming to a news reporter but it has been known for a year that a number the ones with inside info on vaccines were not interested in rushed job vaccines but would want to wait until they have received full FDA approval.
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paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??
If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
Thank you for educating me, but I’m aware of the protocol in place for vaccines kept at below freezing temperatures.
My concern is with the human error element. Intentional or unintentional. I’ve been concerned about this from the beginning.
Case in point, a pharmacist at a hospital in Wisconsin, who intentionally left vaccines out, well past the time for effectiveness. He knowingly gave the vaccine to almost 60 people and hundreds of vaccines had to be destroyed. He was fired, arrested, and the FBI is involved.
Human error happens, and could happen anywhere along the way. From manufacturing through administering.
As Ann stated, supply is the issue for both of the vaccines that have been approved for use in the US. There are a lot of people in the world and not enough vaccine to go around. There’s no easy solution. Health care workers, first responders, and over age 75 people at senior care facilities are first recipients, as they should be.
Your post sounds sarcastic toward me, not sure why or if I am misinterpreting that. - my post wasnt directed at educating you in particular.
I dont see why there would be more opportunity or likelihood of human error, accidental or deliberate, with this vaccine than any other vaccine or medication which has storage requirements.paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??
If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
Thank you for educating me, but I’m aware of the protocol in place for vaccines kept at below freezing temperatures.
My concern is with the human error element. Intentional or unintentional. I’ve been concerned about this from the beginning.
Case in point, a pharmacist at a hospital in Wisconsin, who intentionally left vaccines out, well past the time for effectiveness. He knowingly gave the vaccine to almost 60 people and hundreds of vaccines had to be destroyed. He was fired, arrested, and the FBI is involved.
Human error happens, and could happen anywhere along the way. From manufacturing through administering.
As Ann stated, supply is the issue for both of the vaccines that have been approved for use in the US. There are a lot of people in the world and not enough vaccine to go around. There’s no easy solution. Health care workers, first responders, and over age 75 people at senior care facilities are first recipients, as they should be.
Your post sounds sarcastic toward me, not sure why or if I am misinterpreting that. - my post wasnt directed at educating you in particular.
I dont see why there would be more opportunity or likelihood of human error, accidental or deliberate, with this vaccine than any other vaccine or medication which has storage requirements.
First of all, I’m not one of the disagrees you got for the above comment. Second of all, if your comment wasn’t directed at me, why did you quote me? Third, my comment was sarcastic. I am aware of cold storage requirements, and not just for the covid vaccines. Your post suggested that I did not.
This vaccine isn’t any more susceptible, but the sheer number of doses that will be administered, makes a much higher possibility of it happening. Billions of people need to be vaccinated. Consider that when the pharmacist in Wisconsin who INTENTIONALLY left the vaccine out, and knowing the effectiveness was compromised, still vaccinated 57 people, the vaccine had only been available for less than two weeks. It’s going to take a very long time to accomplish vaccinating everyone who wants to be vaccinated. More opportunities, from manufacturing process through actually injecting people for human error mishaps both intentionally, or unintentionally.
I won’t argue the point of the safety of the vaccine that we are assured of. The truth is, long term consequences and prognosis’s of covid survivors and the vaccine are unknown, and time will tell.5 -
I quoted you because I was continuing that aspect of the conversation, to show where I was picking it up from, not because I was directing it at you in particular.
My post suggested nothing about you in particular- that is your perception and not what I said or suggested.
My post was to everyone, not to you.
if you want to make another sarcastic comment, go ahead.
poor way to respond IMO but thats up to you.
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The quote was unnecessary to continue the aspect of the topic2 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq8SXOBy-4w
We do not debate Religion and Politics on MFP for sound reasons. The testimony of the doctor in this clip made me realize the Covid-19 solutions to start the end of this pandemic do not really depend on science and the medical community. Shelter, food, treatment and vaccines are for the most part under control of the politicians of the world.
I turn 70 next month and receive my first social security payment 30 days after my birthday. I have been paying in for over 50 years so dropping dead due Covid-19 is not in my financial best interest or that of my family.
My future sadly is more under control of politicians than I prefer. Thankfully MFP posters over the years have provided info so health wise I do not have to fear dying from Covid-19 due to having resolved my Covid-19 risk factors prior to the Pandemic striking. Covid-19 still may take me out but actually I am more concerned about car accidents. Back in Nov I could have come home to an empty house when a teenager ran a red light when my daughter was taking her mom to work. Covid-19 is not what is going to take most of us out.
Personal I have observed locally what people and groups of people who have enhanced the spread and resulting deaths from Covid-19 and will modify the individuals and group associations that I will be involved with going forward.
The old norms are fast becoming the past to never return. I see that the next Pandemic may make Covid-19 just look like a bad flu season in comparison. Top notch personal health is the only long term salvation that I see personally. Hopefully vaccines will help tame the current Pandemic for the nations that can afford them.8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nypost.com/2021/01/01/alarming-number-of-us-health-care-workers-are-refusing-covid-19-vaccine/
This may be alarming to a news reporter but it has been known for a year that a number the ones with inside info on vaccines were not interested in rushed job vaccines but would want to wait until they have received full FDA approval.
Nursing home staff do not have "inside info on vaccines". A story about epidemiologists or contagious disease researchers would fit that description, but they are largely onboard so you won't find one.
Just like most healthcare workers don't get much education in nutrition, they don't have to spend much time learning the science and history of how vaccines are developed, trialed, and how they work. And many never have a practical reason to know any of that for their day to day work. A nurse in an assisted living facility is just as likely to see more propaganda than facts as I am. I know some wonderful nurses and EMS whose passion and curiosity has made them into highly knowledgeable resources for their patients. I also know some who have embarrassingly backwards ideas about general health.25 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nypost.com/2021/01/01/alarming-number-of-us-health-care-workers-are-refusing-covid-19-vaccine/
This may be alarming to a news reporter but it has been known for a year that a number the ones with inside info on vaccines were not interested in rushed job vaccines but would want to wait until they have received full FDA approval.
Nursing home staff do not have "inside info on vaccines". A story about epidemiologists or contagious disease researchers would fit that description, but they are largely onboard so you won't find one.
Just like most healthcare workers don't get much education in nutrition, they don't have to spend much time learning the science and history of how vaccines are developed, trialed, and how they work. And many never have a practical reason to know any of that for their day to day work. A nurse in an assisted living facility is just as likely to see more propaganda than facts as I am. I know some wonderful nurses and EMS whose passion and curiosity has made them into highly knowledgeable resources for their patients. I also know some who have embarrassingly backwards ideas about general health.
So true.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nypost.com/2021/01/01/alarming-number-of-us-health-care-workers-are-refusing-covid-19-vaccine/
This may be alarming to a news reporter but it has been known for a year that a number the ones with inside info on vaccines were not interested in rushed job vaccines but would want to wait until they have received full FDA approval.
Nursing home staff do not have "inside info on vaccines". A story about epidemiologists or contagious disease researchers would fit that description, but they are largely onboard so you won't find one.
Just like most healthcare workers don't get much education in nutrition, they don't have to spend much time learning the science and history of how vaccines are developed, trialed, and how they work. And many never have a practical reason to know any of that for their day to day work. A nurse in an assisted living facility is just as likely to see more propaganda than facts as I am. I know some wonderful nurses and EMS whose passion and curiosity has made them into highly knowledgeable resources for their patients. I also know some who have embarrassingly backwards ideas about general health.
I fully agree with you based on what I see and read. I am the legal guardian of a 78 year old deaf individual that never went to school who has lived nearly 30 years in a nursing home. It is the hospital centers that have access to Covid-19 vaccine data and research. Having family on the front lines like you are concerns me and drives me to stay well myself. Thank you for doing for others what they can't do for themselves.5 -
Who would have thought that the country with the worst response to Covid would also screw up vaccine delivery?! 😒
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-usa-cdc/us-distributes-over-1307-mln-doses-of-covid-19-vaccines-42-mln-administered-cdc-idUSL1N2JD0DA13 -
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/21/world/coronavirus-vaccine-dry-ice-intl/index.html
Besides keeping it from spoiling there has been 7 holidays over 2 weeks and with some states reporting 40-60% of medical staff are passing on the vaccine at this time may mean some will have to be returned to storage and reshipped.
Clearly the rush job to get the vaccine out did not get the arms in line to receive it. It is going to take a while to get people lined out. Lot of people do not under how the Hurry Up and Wait policy of Uncle Sam works.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nypost.com/2021/01/01/alarming-number-of-us-health-care-workers-are-refusing-covid-19-vaccine/
This may be alarming to a news reporter but it has been known for a year that a number the ones with inside info on vaccines were not interested in rushed job vaccines but would want to wait until they have received full FDA approval.
Nursing home staff do not have "inside info on vaccines". A story about epidemiologists or contagious disease researchers would fit that description, but they are largely onboard so you won't find one.
Just like most healthcare workers don't get much education in nutrition, they don't have to spend much time learning the science and history of how vaccines are developed, trialed, and how they work. And many never have a practical reason to know any of that for their day to day work. A nurse in an assisted living facility is just as likely to see more propaganda than facts as I am. I know some wonderful nurses and EMS whose passion and curiosity has made them into highly knowledgeable resources for their patients. I also know some who have embarrassingly backwards ideas about general health.
I have several relatives who work in assisted living/nursing homes. They are absolutely experts on caring for older or impaired people well and they do so with care and compassion. If I had questions about this area of medicine, I would turn to them for more information.
They are not well-rounded experts on all medical issues (nor should they have to be!) or experts on pandemics or the human immune system. In general, I've found that someone who is well educated in their particular field is more likely to understand how wide the world of medicine is and they're less likely to assume expertise on matters outside their field.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nypost.com/2021/01/01/alarming-number-of-us-health-care-workers-are-refusing-covid-19-vaccine/
This may be alarming to a news reporter but it has been known for a year that a number the ones with inside info on vaccines were not interested in rushed job vaccines but would want to wait until they have received full FDA approval.
Nursing home staff do not have "inside info on vaccines". A story about epidemiologists or contagious disease researchers would fit that description, but they are largely onboard so you won't find one.
Just like most healthcare workers don't get much education in nutrition, they don't have to spend much time learning the science and history of how vaccines are developed, trialed, and how they work. And many never have a practical reason to know any of that for their day to day work. A nurse in an assisted living facility is just as likely to see more propaganda than facts as I am. I know some wonderful nurses and EMS whose passion and curiosity has made them into highly knowledgeable resources for their patients. I also know some who have embarrassingly backwards ideas about general health.
I have several relatives who work in assisted living/nursing homes. They are absolutely experts on caring for older or impaired people well and they do so with care and compassion. If I had questions about this area of medicine, I would turn to them for more information.
They are not well-rounded experts on all medical issues (nor should they have to be!) or experts on pandemics or the human immune system. In general, I've found that someone who is well educated in their particular field is more likely to understand how wide the world of medicine is and they're less likely to assume expertise on matters outside their field.
Docs and nurses are just people. Not infallible. And having many in my family, I can tell you that many overreach their areas of specialty and, many times, don't know what they are talking about. There are great ones and bad ones, just like in every profession.
One of my siblings (an RN) spouts more Woo than anyone on the Forum boards about CICO and how it would never work for her.12 -
God bless our transit workers.
Went to our county's website to register for a Covid test. The testing site is at a facility on the outskirts of the city and there is no public transportation to the site. I did notice there was a shuttle running from the closest public transit stop (about a mile away) to the testing site. Feel bad for the person driving the shuttle for 8 hours a day when every passenger getting on either has or thinks they have Covid.20 -
Its official, England is in lockdown again. Following Scotland and N Ireland, yet to hear of Wales. Its about time too.20
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missysippy930 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??
If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
Thank you for educating me, but I’m aware of the protocol in place for vaccines kept at below freezing temperatures.
My concern is with the human error element. Intentional or unintentional. I’ve been concerned about this from the beginning.
Case in point, a pharmacist at a hospital in Wisconsin, who intentionally left vaccines out, well past the time for effectiveness. He knowingly gave the vaccine to almost 60 people and hundreds of vaccines had to be destroyed. He was fired, arrested, and the FBI is involved.
Human error happens, and could happen anywhere along the way. From manufacturing through administering.
As Ann stated, supply is the issue for both of the vaccines that have been approved for use in the US. There are a lot of people in the world and not enough vaccine to go around. There’s no easy solution. Health care workers, first responders, and over age 75 people at senior care facilities are first recipients, as they should be.
Your post sounds sarcastic toward me, not sure why or if I am misinterpreting that. - my post wasnt directed at educating you in particular.
I dont see why there would be more opportunity or likelihood of human error, accidental or deliberate, with this vaccine than any other vaccine or medication which has storage requirements.paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??
If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
Thank you for educating me, but I’m aware of the protocol in place for vaccines kept at below freezing temperatures.
My concern is with the human error element. Intentional or unintentional. I’ve been concerned about this from the beginning.
Case in point, a pharmacist at a hospital in Wisconsin, who intentionally left vaccines out, well past the time for effectiveness. He knowingly gave the vaccine to almost 60 people and hundreds of vaccines had to be destroyed. He was fired, arrested, and the FBI is involved.
Human error happens, and could happen anywhere along the way. From manufacturing through administering.
As Ann stated, supply is the issue for both of the vaccines that have been approved for use in the US. There are a lot of people in the world and not enough vaccine to go around. There’s no easy solution. Health care workers, first responders, and over age 75 people at senior care facilities are first recipients, as they should be.
Your post sounds sarcastic toward me, not sure why or if I am misinterpreting that. - my post wasnt directed at educating you in particular.
I dont see why there would be more opportunity or likelihood of human error, accidental or deliberate, with this vaccine than any other vaccine or medication which has storage requirements.
First of all, I’m not one of the disagrees you got for the above comment. Second of all, if your comment wasn’t directed at me, why did you quote me? Third, my comment was sarcastic. I am aware of cold storage requirements, and not just for the covid vaccines. Your post suggested that I did not.
This vaccine isn’t any more susceptible, but the sheer number of doses that will be administered, makes a much higher possibility of it happening. Billions of people need to be vaccinated. Consider that when the pharmacist in Wisconsin who INTENTIONALLY left the vaccine out, and knowing the effectiveness was compromised, still vaccinated 57 people, the vaccine had only been available for less than two weeks. It’s going to take a very long time to accomplish vaccinating everyone who wants to be vaccinated. More opportunities, from manufacturing process through actually injecting people for human error mishaps both intentionally, or unintentionally.
I won’t argue the point of the safety of the vaccine that we are assured of. The truth is, long term consequences and prognosis’s of covid survivors and the vaccine are unknown, and time will tell.
The thing is, herd immunity doesn’t have to be perfect for the virus to fizzle out and die.
It’s true that long term consequences of the vaccine are unknown. It’s unlikely but in fifteen years we may find that everyone who got the vaccine has unexpectedly sprouted a full set of teeth inside their brain. But we do know what the short term consequences of Covid are. For me, that would be a 15% chance of actual death. Even for young people, many show lasting damage to their heart and lungs even when they thought they were asymptomatic.8
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