Coronavirus prep

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  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,261 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    SModa61 wrote: »

    I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.

    Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.

    One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?


    I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??

    If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
  • lokihen
    lokihen Posts: 382 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    SModa61 wrote: »

    I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.

    Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.

    One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?


    I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??

    If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.

    No, the Pfizer (extreme cold) is one of the vaccines being distributed in the U.S.
  • GummiMundi
    GummiMundi Posts: 396 Member
    lokihen wrote: »
    Apparently, Europe is considering only giving the first dose of the vaccine on the premise that some protection for many is better than full protection for a few.

    Personally, I'd prefer to see the frontline healthcare workers and elderly get full protection.

    Where did you read that? I'm in Europe, and I've heard nothing about this.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,261 Member
    Ok, that does have logistical issues then - of special storage facilities and separate locations to access it

    I wonder why they dont all use the Moderna vaccine if that can be kept at regular vaccine temps.
  • lokihen
    lokihen Posts: 382 Member
    GummiMundi wrote: »
    lokihen wrote: »
    Apparently, Europe is considering only giving the first dose of the vaccine on the premise that some protection for many is better than full protection for a few.

    Personally, I'd prefer to see the frontline healthcare workers and elderly get full protection.

    Where did you read that? I'm in Europe, and I've heard nothing about this.

    It was in a DW News report.
  • missysippy930
    missysippy930 Posts: 2,577 Member
    edited January 2021
    SModa61 wrote: »
    SModa61 wrote: »

    I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.

    Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.

    One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?


    I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??

    If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.

    Thank you for educating me, but I’m aware of the protocol in place for vaccines kept at below freezing temperatures.

    My concern is with the human error element. Intentional or unintentional. I’ve been concerned about this from the beginning.

    Case in point, a pharmacist at a hospital in Wisconsin, who intentionally left vaccines out, well past the time for effectiveness. He knowingly gave the vaccine to almost 60 people and hundreds of vaccines had to be destroyed. He was fired, arrested, and the FBI is involved.

    Human error happens, and could happen anywhere along the way. From manufacturing through administering.

    As Ann stated, supply is the issue for both of the vaccines that have been approved for use in the US. There are a lot of people in the world and not enough vaccine to go around. There’s no easy solution. Health care workers, first responders, and over age 75 people at senior care facilities are first recipients, as they should be.
  • GummiMundi
    GummiMundi Posts: 396 Member
    GummiMundi wrote: »
    lokihen wrote: »
    Apparently, Europe is considering only giving the first dose of the vaccine on the premise that some protection for many is better than full protection for a few.

    Personally, I'd prefer to see the frontline healthcare workers and elderly get full protection.

    Where did you read that? I'm in Europe, and I've heard nothing about this.

    I’m in the UK, and having my first dose of vaccine this afternoon (frontline health worker). I’ve been told my second dose will be within 3-12 weeks. Apparently the second dose should be given a minimum of 3 weeks after the first so it’s okay for it to be a bit longer and this way more people can get their first dose more quickly. There was something on the BBC news website that you might be able to look up.

    Thanks @lokihen and @greyhoundwalker
    I've read about it this morning, but it was only being talked about in UK, not in all of Europe.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    edited January 2021
    https://nypost.com/2021/01/01/alarming-number-of-us-health-care-workers-are-refusing-covid-19-vaccine/

    This may be alarming to a news reporter but it has been known for a year that a number the ones with inside info on vaccines were not interested in rushed job vaccines but would want to wait until they have received full FDA approval.
  • missysippy930
    missysippy930 Posts: 2,577 Member

    The quote was unnecessary to continue the aspect of the topic
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/21/world/coronavirus-vaccine-dry-ice-intl/index.html

    Besides keeping it from spoiling there has been 7 holidays over 2 weeks and with some states reporting 40-60% of medical staff are passing on the vaccine at this time may mean some will have to be returned to storage and reshipped.

    Clearly the rush job to get the vaccine out did not get the arms in line to receive it. It is going to take a while to get people lined out. Lot of people do not under how the Hurry Up and Wait policy of Uncle Sam works.