Coronavirus prep

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Replies

  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,089 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    yes, interesting difference.

    Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.

    was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.

    Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.

    (shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)

    Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.



    In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.

    I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.

    Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.

    That's just a personal observation.


    That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.

    Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines

    Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...

    My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.

    Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.

    All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.

    In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.


    That's interesting.

    Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.

    Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.

    And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.

    Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?

    I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.

    Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.

    Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
    Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)


    I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.

    I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.


    I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
    How old were you when you got it? I am 56.

    I was 58. Not sure where you are or which vaccine they're using in your area. I had the two-dose Shingrix vaccine. I hadn't realized until checking just now that its effectiveness can fade after four years, but for some reason the CDC doesn't recommend subsequent boosters. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

    It is Shingrix they give here now - it is only covered by the public health plan if you are between 65-70. I guess the waning immunity is why they limit to those ages, they want people to get it when they are most likely to need it.

    FWIW, when I got shingles while in . . . hmm, 30s/40s? . . . they told me that younger people typically have milder cases than older people, though of course there are exceptions. If true, perhaps that's also part of the picture?
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    yes, interesting difference.

    Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.

    was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.

    Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.

    (shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)

    Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.



    In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.

    I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.

    Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.

    That's just a personal observation.


    That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.

    Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines

    Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...

    My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.

    Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.

    All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.

    In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.


    That's interesting.

    Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.

    Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.

    And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.

    Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?

    I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.

    Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.

    Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
    Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)


    I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.

    I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.


    I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
    How old were you when you got it? I am 56.

    I was 58. Not sure where you are or which vaccine they're using in your area. I had the two-dose Shingrix vaccine. I hadn't realized until checking just now that its effectiveness can fade after four years, but for some reason the CDC doesn't recommend subsequent boosters. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

    It is Shingrix they give here now - it is only covered by the public health plan if you are between 65-70. I guess the waning immunity is why they limit to those ages, they want people to get it when they are most likely to need it.

    FWIW, when I got shingles while in . . . hmm, 30s/40s? . . . they told me that younger people typically have milder cases than older people, though of course there are exceptions. If true, perhaps that's also part of the picture?

    Yeah for sure - that's what I meant. Older people get worse cases, so if they give it too young (when people are less likely to have a bad case) then by the time you might need it more the vaccine immunity is waning already.
    But having said that - I don't know why they don't just give a booster every few years? I don't know enough about it but I would speculate it is a cost thing, if very few people get a bad case when they are younger (and since it isn't contagious) doesn't make financial sense from a public health perspective to fund primary series then boosters.

    Shingrix has only been approved for use in the U.S. since 2017 so I don't know how they could be recommending boosters at four years yet when it's just been four years it's been in use. I'm sure there will be future directives if supposed efficacy is stated at four years AND if there are a number of breakthrough infections that start showing up. The literature says they expect it to last longer than the four years. But ya know...pesky data.

    Does anybody know if the four years is based on observed shingles cases in vaccinated subjects in long-term trials, or is it just that they can't make claims for efficacy beyond four years because they don't have sufficient trial data beyond four years?
  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
    edited October 2021
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    yes, interesting difference.

    Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.

    was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.

    Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.

    (shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)

    Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.



    In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.

    I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.

    Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.

    That's just a personal observation.


    That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.

    Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines

    Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...

    My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.

    Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.

    All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.

    In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.


    That's interesting.

    Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.

    Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.

    And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.

    Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?

    I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.

    Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.

    Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
    Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)


    I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.

    I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.


    I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
    How old were you when you got it? I am 56.

    I was 58. Not sure where you are or which vaccine they're using in your area. I had the two-dose Shingrix vaccine. I hadn't realized until checking just now that its effectiveness can fade after four years, but for some reason the CDC doesn't recommend subsequent boosters. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

    It is Shingrix they give here now - it is only covered by the public health plan if you are between 65-70. I guess the waning immunity is why they limit to those ages, they want people to get it when they are most likely to need it.

    FWIW, when I got shingles while in . . . hmm, 30s/40s? . . . they told me that younger people typically have milder cases than older people, though of course there are exceptions. If true, perhaps that's also part of the picture?
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    yes, interesting difference.

    Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.

    was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.

    Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.

    (shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)

    Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.



    In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.

    I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.

    Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.

    That's just a personal observation.


    That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.

    Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines

    Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...

    My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.

    Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.

    All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.

    In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.


    That's interesting.

    Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.

    Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.

    And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.

    Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?

    I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.

    Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.

    Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
    Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)


    I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.

    I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.


    I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
    How old were you when you got it? I am 56.

    I was 58. Not sure where you are or which vaccine they're using in your area. I had the two-dose Shingrix vaccine. I hadn't realized until checking just now that its effectiveness can fade after four years, but for some reason the CDC doesn't recommend subsequent boosters. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

    It is Shingrix they give here now - it is only covered by the public health plan if you are between 65-70. I guess the waning immunity is why they limit to those ages, they want people to get it when they are most likely to need it.

    FWIW, when I got shingles while in . . . hmm, 30s/40s? . . . they told me that younger people typically have milder cases than older people, though of course there are exceptions. If true, perhaps that's also part of the picture?

    Yeah for sure - that's what I meant. Older people get worse cases, so if they give it too young (when people are less likely to have a bad case) then by the time you might need it more the vaccine immunity is waning already.
    But having said that - I don't know why they don't just give a booster every few years? I don't know enough about it but I would speculate it is a cost thing, if very few people get a bad case when they are younger (and since it isn't contagious) doesn't make financial sense from a public health perspective to fund primary series then boosters.

    Shingrix has only been approved for use in the U.S. since 2017 so I don't know how they could be recommending boosters at four years yet when it's just been four years it's been in use. I'm sure there will be future directives if supposed efficacy is stated at four years AND if there are a number of breakthrough infections that start showing up. The literature says they expect it to last longer than the four years. But ya know...pesky data.

    Oh I don't know that much about vaccine manufacture and testing, I guess I assumed they would have the efficacy data from long term trials before they approved the vaccine for use. I know the Covid vaccine was rushed through but I thought that most other vaccines had full data on efficacy duration before they were introduced into general use. And I didn't realize it was a brand new vaccine.

    At any rate it does make it difficult for one to decide the best route to go if the data isn't in yet.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,393 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    yes, interesting difference.

    Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.

    was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.

    Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.

    (shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)

    Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.



    In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.

    I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.

    Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.

    That's just a personal observation.


    That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.

    Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines

    Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...

    My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.

    Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.

    All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.

    In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.


    That's interesting.

    Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.

    Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.

    And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.

    Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?

    I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.

    Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.

    Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
    Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)


    I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.

    I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.


    I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
    How old were you when you got it? I am 56.

    I was 58. Not sure where you are or which vaccine they're using in your area. I had the two-dose Shingrix vaccine. I hadn't realized until checking just now that its effectiveness can fade after four years, but for some reason the CDC doesn't recommend subsequent boosters. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

    It is Shingrix they give here now - it is only covered by the public health plan if you are between 65-70. I guess the waning immunity is why they limit to those ages, they want people to get it when they are most likely to need it.

    FWIW, when I got shingles while in . . . hmm, 30s/40s? . . . they told me that younger people typically have milder cases than older people, though of course there are exceptions. If true, perhaps that's also part of the picture?
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    yes, interesting difference.

    Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.

    was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.

    Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.

    (shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)

    Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.



    In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.

    I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.

    Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.

    That's just a personal observation.


    That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.

    Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines

    Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...

    My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.

    Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.

    All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.

    In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.


    That's interesting.

    Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.

    Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.

    And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.

    Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?

    I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.

    Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.

    Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
    Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)


    I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.

    I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.


    I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
    How old were you when you got it? I am 56.

    I was 58. Not sure where you are or which vaccine they're using in your area. I had the two-dose Shingrix vaccine. I hadn't realized until checking just now that its effectiveness can fade after four years, but for some reason the CDC doesn't recommend subsequent boosters. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

    It is Shingrix they give here now - it is only covered by the public health plan if you are between 65-70. I guess the waning immunity is why they limit to those ages, they want people to get it when they are most likely to need it.

    FWIW, when I got shingles while in . . . hmm, 30s/40s? . . . they told me that younger people typically have milder cases than older people, though of course there are exceptions. If true, perhaps that's also part of the picture?

    Yeah for sure - that's what I meant. Older people get worse cases, so if they give it too young (when people are less likely to have a bad case) then by the time you might need it more the vaccine immunity is waning already.
    But having said that - I don't know why they don't just give a booster every few years? I don't know enough about it but I would speculate it is a cost thing, if very few people get a bad case when they are younger (and since it isn't contagious) doesn't make financial sense from a public health perspective to fund primary series then boosters.

    Shingrix has only been approved for use in the U.S. since 2017 so I don't know how they could be recommending boosters at four years yet when it's just been four years it's been in use. I'm sure there will be future directives if supposed efficacy is stated at four years AND if there are a number of breakthrough infections that start showing up. The literature says they expect it to last longer than the four years. But ya know...pesky data.

    Oh I don't know that much about vaccine manufacture and testing, I guess I assumed they would have the efficacy data from long term trials before they approved the vaccine for use. I know the Covid vaccine was rushed through but I thought that most other vaccines had full data on efficacy duration before they were introduced into general use. And I didn't realize it was a brand new vaccine.

    At any rate it does make it difficult for one to decide the best route to go if the data isn't in yet.

    I'm sure there would be a recommended booster at XX interval if it was indicated. I'd get the shots (I did already, in 2019) and then just follow future guidelines.
  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    yes, interesting difference.

    Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.

    was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.

    Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.

    (shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)

    Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.



    In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.

    I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.

    Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.

    That's just a personal observation.


    That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.

    Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines

    Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...

    My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.

    Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.

    All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.

    In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.


    That's interesting.

    Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.

    Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.

    And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.

    Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?

    I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.

    Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.

    Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
    Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)


    I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.

    I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.


    I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
    How old were you when you got it? I am 56.

    I was 58. Not sure where you are or which vaccine they're using in your area. I had the two-dose Shingrix vaccine. I hadn't realized until checking just now that its effectiveness can fade after four years, but for some reason the CDC doesn't recommend subsequent boosters. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

    It is Shingrix they give here now - it is only covered by the public health plan if you are between 65-70. I guess the waning immunity is why they limit to those ages, they want people to get it when they are most likely to need it.

    FWIW, when I got shingles while in . . . hmm, 30s/40s? . . . they told me that younger people typically have milder cases than older people, though of course there are exceptions. If true, perhaps that's also part of the picture?
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    yes, interesting difference.

    Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.

    was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.

    Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.

    (shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)

    Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.



    In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.

    I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.

    Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.

    That's just a personal observation.


    That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.

    Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines

    Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...

    My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.

    Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.

    All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.

    In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.


    That's interesting.

    Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.

    Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.

    And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.

    Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?

    I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.

    Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.

    Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
    Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)


    I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.

    I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.


    I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
    How old were you when you got it? I am 56.

    I was 58. Not sure where you are or which vaccine they're using in your area. I had the two-dose Shingrix vaccine. I hadn't realized until checking just now that its effectiveness can fade after four years, but for some reason the CDC doesn't recommend subsequent boosters. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

    It is Shingrix they give here now - it is only covered by the public health plan if you are between 65-70. I guess the waning immunity is why they limit to those ages, they want people to get it when they are most likely to need it.

    FWIW, when I got shingles while in . . . hmm, 30s/40s? . . . they told me that younger people typically have milder cases than older people, though of course there are exceptions. If true, perhaps that's also part of the picture?

    Yeah for sure - that's what I meant. Older people get worse cases, so if they give it too young (when people are less likely to have a bad case) then by the time you might need it more the vaccine immunity is waning already.
    But having said that - I don't know why they don't just give a booster every few years? I don't know enough about it but I would speculate it is a cost thing, if very few people get a bad case when they are younger (and since it isn't contagious) doesn't make financial sense from a public health perspective to fund primary series then boosters.

    Shingrix has only been approved for use in the U.S. since 2017 so I don't know how they could be recommending boosters at four years yet when it's just been four years it's been in use. I'm sure there will be future directives if supposed efficacy is stated at four years AND if there are a number of breakthrough infections that start showing up. The literature says they expect it to last longer than the four years. But ya know...pesky data.

    Oh I don't know that much about vaccine manufacture and testing, I guess I assumed they would have the efficacy data from long term trials before they approved the vaccine for use. I know the Covid vaccine was rushed through but I thought that most other vaccines had full data on efficacy duration before they were introduced into general use. And I didn't realize it was a brand new vaccine.

    At any rate it does make it difficult for one to decide the best route to go if the data isn't in yet.

    I'm sure there would be a recommended booster at XX interval if it was indicated. I'd get the shots (I did already, in 2019) and then just follow future guidelines.

    Except the guidelines here say to get it between 65 - 70 and I am only 56. Thus my dilemma. :)
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,393 Member
    edited October 2021
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    yes, interesting difference.

    Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.

    was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.

    Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.

    (shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)

    Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.



    In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.

    I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.

    Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.

    That's just a personal observation.


    That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.

    Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines

    Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...

    My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.

    Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.

    All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.

    In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.


    That's interesting.

    Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.

    Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.

    And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.

    Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?

    I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.

    Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.

    Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
    Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)


    I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.

    I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.


    I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
    How old were you when you got it? I am 56.

    I was 58. Not sure where you are or which vaccine they're using in your area. I had the two-dose Shingrix vaccine. I hadn't realized until checking just now that its effectiveness can fade after four years, but for some reason the CDC doesn't recommend subsequent boosters. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

    It is Shingrix they give here now - it is only covered by the public health plan if you are between 65-70. I guess the waning immunity is why they limit to those ages, they want people to get it when they are most likely to need it.

    FWIW, when I got shingles while in . . . hmm, 30s/40s? . . . they told me that younger people typically have milder cases than older people, though of course there are exceptions. If true, perhaps that's also part of the picture?
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    yes, interesting difference.

    Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.

    was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.

    Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.

    (shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)

    Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.



    In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.

    I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.

    Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.

    That's just a personal observation.


    That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.

    Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines

    Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...

    My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.

    Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.

    All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.

    In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.


    That's interesting.

    Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.

    Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.

    And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.

    Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?

    I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.

    Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.

    Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
    Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)


    I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.

    I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.


    I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
    How old were you when you got it? I am 56.

    I was 58. Not sure where you are or which vaccine they're using in your area. I had the two-dose Shingrix vaccine. I hadn't realized until checking just now that its effectiveness can fade after four years, but for some reason the CDC doesn't recommend subsequent boosters. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

    It is Shingrix they give here now - it is only covered by the public health plan if you are between 65-70. I guess the waning immunity is why they limit to those ages, they want people to get it when they are most likely to need it.

    FWIW, when I got shingles while in . . . hmm, 30s/40s? . . . they told me that younger people typically have milder cases than older people, though of course there are exceptions. If true, perhaps that's also part of the picture?

    Yeah for sure - that's what I meant. Older people get worse cases, so if they give it too young (when people are less likely to have a bad case) then by the time you might need it more the vaccine immunity is waning already.
    But having said that - I don't know why they don't just give a booster every few years? I don't know enough about it but I would speculate it is a cost thing, if very few people get a bad case when they are younger (and since it isn't contagious) doesn't make financial sense from a public health perspective to fund primary series then boosters.

    Shingrix has only been approved for use in the U.S. since 2017 so I don't know how they could be recommending boosters at four years yet when it's just been four years it's been in use. I'm sure there will be future directives if supposed efficacy is stated at four years AND if there are a number of breakthrough infections that start showing up. The literature says they expect it to last longer than the four years. But ya know...pesky data.

    Oh I don't know that much about vaccine manufacture and testing, I guess I assumed they would have the efficacy data from long term trials before they approved the vaccine for use. I know the Covid vaccine was rushed through but I thought that most other vaccines had full data on efficacy duration before they were introduced into general use. And I didn't realize it was a brand new vaccine.

    At any rate it does make it difficult for one to decide the best route to go if the data isn't in yet.

    I'm sure there would be a recommended booster at XX interval if it was indicated. I'd get the shots (I did already, in 2019) and then just follow future guidelines.

    Except the guidelines here say to get it between 65 - 70 and I am only 56. Thus my dilemma. :)

    I would get it if you're worried. Why wouldn't you?

    https://www.cdc.gov/shingles/multimedia/shringrix-50-older.html

  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,393 Member
    edited October 2021
    Clinical trial ongoing Shingrix
    Persistence of Protection by Shingrix
    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04169009

    Study started in July, 2020. Estimated end date of study, March 2023. Only 140 subjects, non-randomized.


    I got my Pfizer Covid 3rd shot booster and then the Fluzone Quad the next day. No issues with either one. I believe a relaxed arm and then moving it a lot afterwards helps with the muscle discomfort. My 2nd Pfizer knocked me into a nap on day two, but this third one...nada.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,102 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    yes, interesting difference.

    Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.

    was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.

    Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.

    (shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)

    Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.



    In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.

    I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.

    Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.

    That's just a personal observation.


    That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.

    Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines

    Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...

    My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.

    Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.

    All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.

    In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.


    That's interesting.

    Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.

    Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.

    And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.

    Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?

    I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.

    Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.

    Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
    Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)


    I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.

    I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.


    I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
    How old were you when you got it? I am 56.

    I was 58. Not sure where you are or which vaccine they're using in your area. I had the two-dose Shingrix vaccine. I hadn't realized until checking just now that its effectiveness can fade after four years, but for some reason the CDC doesn't recommend subsequent boosters. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

    It is Shingrix they give here now - it is only covered by the public health plan if you are between 65-70. I guess the waning immunity is why they limit to those ages, they want people to get it when they are most likely to need it.

    FWIW, when I got shingles while in . . . hmm, 30s/40s? . . . they told me that younger people typically have milder cases than older people, though of course there are exceptions. If true, perhaps that's also part of the picture?
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dnarules wrote: »
    yes, interesting difference.

    Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.

    was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.

    Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.

    (shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)

    Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.



    In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.

    I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.

    Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.

    That's just a personal observation.


    That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.

    Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines

    Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...

    My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.

    Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.

    All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.

    In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.


    That's interesting.

    Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.

    Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.

    And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.

    Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?

    I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.

    Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.

    Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
    Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)


    I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.

    I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.


    I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
    How old were you when you got it? I am 56.

    I was 58. Not sure where you are or which vaccine they're using in your area. I had the two-dose Shingrix vaccine. I hadn't realized until checking just now that its effectiveness can fade after four years, but for some reason the CDC doesn't recommend subsequent boosters. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

    It is Shingrix they give here now - it is only covered by the public health plan if you are between 65-70. I guess the waning immunity is why they limit to those ages, they want people to get it when they are most likely to need it.

    FWIW, when I got shingles while in . . . hmm, 30s/40s? . . . they told me that younger people typically have milder cases than older people, though of course there are exceptions. If true, perhaps that's also part of the picture?

    Yeah for sure - that's what I meant. Older people get worse cases, so if they give it too young (when people are less likely to have a bad case) then by the time you might need it more the vaccine immunity is waning already.
    But having said that - I don't know why they don't just give a booster every few years? I don't know enough about it but I would speculate it is a cost thing, if very few people get a bad case when they are younger (and since it isn't contagious) doesn't make financial sense from a public health perspective to fund primary series then boosters.

    I'm skeptical that that's the reasoning. There are vaccines for other non-contagious diseases that are administered routinely with boosters recommended regularly - tetanus comes to mind. I'm sure there's a cost difference between the tetanus vax and Shingrix because the former has been commoditized for a long time, but I still don't think that would be the basis for recommending Shingrix only for older folks.

    I'm sure the incidence and severity of the disease (more common, more severe among elders) is part of what's considered. Possible there are other differences as well, like risk/reward tradeoff, kinds of things that are considered for other medications generally and vaccines specifically.
  • LazyBlondeChef
    LazyBlondeChef Posts: 2,809 Member
    @cmriverside thanks for that link from science daily. I had been wondering why there was no booster if it only lasted 4-5 years which was the information I kept finding but I didn't realize it had only been approved in the US since 2017. Everything makes so much more sense now.
  • missysippy930
    missysippy930 Posts: 2,577 Member
    edited October 2021
    ythannah wrote: »
    I got the ill-fated Zostavax so apparently I'm going to need Shingrix anyway. Something to keep in mind before I retire and lose my insurance benefits.

    I’m not positive, but from what we were told by supplemental health insurance agent, most vaccines are covered by Medicare part D, and certain vaccines are always covered by part B. My husband just retired 9/30/21, so we haven’t used it yet, but may be useful for you to check out, if that would affect your decision.
  • SummerSkier
    SummerSkier Posts: 5,096 Member
    Interesting my friend's son who is probably just 50 got his first shingrex yesterday. This was thru the US VA. Seemed early to me, but maybe since I got mine (not thru the Veteran's admin) a few years ago recommendations are changing.

    What does everyone think about this mix and matching thing? Is that to allow folks who got J&J to get a different one for the most part? I had Pfizer back in April so am not quite due altho I probably could get a booster. I am just really wanting to see more data. My brother had Moderna and I think already had a booster due to age and health conditions.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    edited October 2021
    Interesting my friend's son who is probably just 50 got his first shingrex yesterday. This was thru the US VA. Seemed early to me, but maybe since I got mine (not thru the Veteran's admin) a few years ago recommendations are changing.

    What does everyone think about this mix and matching thing? Is that to allow folks who got J&J to get a different one for the most part? I had Pfizer back in April so am not quite due altho I probably could get a booster. I am just really wanting to see more data. My brother had Moderna and I think already had a booster due to age and health conditions.

    There is some theorizing that different types of vaccines might provide different "Instructuons" to your immune system, and better immunity, but that's just theory right now. I think it is more for people who either want a booster but had a bad reaction to their main doses, or people who got J&J and either don't trust it or want in on the mRNA action :smile:

    It's a good idea for them to get more data about mixing regardless. It's not realistic or efficient to keep all these different brands available forever I don't think, so if boosters will be a thing long term I'd guess one or two brands will show themselves to be the best in some way, at least regionally.

    The TWIV folks say mix and match looks safe to them, but I don't think they've seen enough data yet to say whether it's beneficial or doesn't really matter.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited October 2021
    I actually decided to wait a day or two and get Moderna (I am getting it plus flu today vs yesterday or the day before), because most of what I've seen is that it either doesn't matter or could be beneficial to mix Pfizer (my first 2) and Moderna.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-europe-health-london-71eff66d2e2924f44a4207844b84c208

    I was thinking UK was out of the Covid-19 woods and now this warning. Russia is at 1000 deaths daily and looking at lockdowns. China is in the Covid news cycle again. After 2 years I would though science would have made more progress. The non medical Covid-19 side effects is getting more attention now than the virus itself. It's like Covid-19 is Wildfire.
  • RetiredAndLovingIt
    RetiredAndLovingIt Posts: 1,394 Member
    Medicare & our supplement covered the cost for all the vaccines we have had..flu, Shingrix.
  • ythannah
    ythannah Posts: 4,371 Member
    ythannah wrote: »
    I got the ill-fated Zostavax so apparently I'm going to need Shingrix anyway. Something to keep in mind before I retire and lose my insurance benefits.

    I’m not positive, but from what we were told by supplemental health insurance agent, most vaccines are covered by Medicare part D, and certain vaccines are always covered by part B. My husband just retired 9/30/21, so we haven’t used it yet, but may be useful for you to check out, if that would affect your decision.

    I'm sure that's helpful info for other US readers however I'm in Canada. The cost of prescribed medications is covered by the patient, either out of pocket or by a private insurance benefit plan. I lose those benefits once I'm no longer employed. There are various cost-subsidy schemes that can be accessed (depending on the province) after that but I'd still prefer to have the full amount covered for an expensive one like shingles vax.

    I don't know which vaccinations are no-cost (covered under public health) here vs patient-cost, or how that is decided. Zostavax and Twinrix definitely went through my benefit plan. Covid vaccination was obviously free, as is the flu shot. My doctor gave me DPT in office so I assume it's a free one, as the others were obtained from the pharmacy with a prescription.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,102 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    Interesting my friend's son who is probably just 50 got his first shingrex yesterday. This was thru the US VA. Seemed early to me, but maybe since I got mine (not thru the Veteran's admin) a few years ago recommendations are changing.

    What does everyone think about this mix and matching thing? Is that to allow folks who got J&J to get a different one for the most part? I had Pfizer back in April so am not quite due altho I probably could get a booster. I am just really wanting to see more data. My brother had Moderna and I think already had a booster due to age and health conditions.

    There is some theorizing that different types of vaccines might provide different "Instructuons" to your immune system, and better immunity, but that's just theory right now. I think it is more for people who either want a booster but had a bad reaction to their main doses, or people who got J&J and either don't trust it or want in on the mRNA action :smile:

    It's a good idea for them to get more data about mixing regardless. It's not realistic or efficient to keep all these different brands available forever I don't think, so if boosters will be a thing long term I'd guess one or two brands will show themselves to be the best in some way, at least regionally.

    The TWIV folks say mix and match looks safe to them, but I don't think they've seen enough data yet to say whether it's beneficial or doesn't really matter.

    Not an immunology technical thing, but I've assume the mix'n'match data would also be useful in a logistical sense: Here, different entities have offered different brands, and my (poorly informed) impression is that some are now easier to find than others. If so, those who went to a mass vaccination event locally, especially - a temporary thing - might have logistical challenges getting the same brand for a second or third dose . . . not necessarily impossible, but an additional wrinkle.

    If the mixed regimens are at least close to as good, there's real reason to make a huge effort to get the same thing. Of course, if a particular mix is better, that could be a reason to go through the logistical hassle, but at that point it's more of a personal choice about the tradeoffs, vs. a "only one brand throughout" being the medical guideline and possibly a logistical challenge simply because mixes weren't tested.
  • spiriteagle99
    spiriteagle99 Posts: 3,740 Member
    I really hope they are tracking which vaccines have the most break-through infections. It certainly sounds like J&J is less effective over the long term, since they recommend everyone over 18 get another shot 2 months after getting vaccinated, vs. only those at high risk and after 6 months for Pfizer and Moderna. I haven't heard anything about Astra-Zeneca's long term effectiveness, but I don't think that was ever used widely here in the US. I think it was widely used in Europe though. For those who had that shot, what are the recommendations as to boosters?
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    Interesting my friend's son who is probably just 50 got his first shingrex yesterday. This was thru the US VA. Seemed early to me, but maybe since I got mine (not thru the Veteran's admin) a few years ago recommendations are changing.

    What does everyone think about this mix and matching thing? Is that to allow folks who got J&J to get a different one for the most part? I had Pfizer back in April so am not quite due altho I probably could get a booster. I am just really wanting to see more data. My brother had Moderna and I think already had a booster due to age and health conditions.

    There is some theorizing that different types of vaccines might provide different "Instructuons" to your immune system, and better immunity, but that's just theory right now. I think it is more for people who either want a booster but had a bad reaction to their main doses, or people who got J&J and either don't trust it or want in on the mRNA action :smile:

    It's a good idea for them to get more data about mixing regardless. It's not realistic or efficient to keep all these different brands available forever I don't think, so if boosters will be a thing long term I'd guess one or two brands will show themselves to be the best in some way, at least regionally.

    The TWIV folks say mix and match looks safe to them, but I don't think they've seen enough data yet to say whether it's beneficial or doesn't really matter.

    Not an immunology technical thing, but I've assume the mix'n'match data would also be useful in a logistical sense: Here, different entities have offered different brands, and my (poorly informed) impression is that some are now easier to find than others. If so, those who went to a mass vaccination event locally, especially - a temporary thing - might have logistical challenges getting the same brand for a second or third dose . . . not necessarily impossible, but an additional wrinkle.

    If the mixed regimens are at least close to as good, there's real reason to make a huge effort to get the same thing. Of course, if a particular mix is better, that could be a reason to go through the logistical hassle, but at that point it's more of a personal choice about the tradeoffs, vs. a "only one brand throughout" being the medical guideline and possibly a logistical challenge simply because mixes weren't tested.

    Here they all seem to be easily available so long as you do a search on stores (assuming one is going to a pharmacy), but I agree that that is also an important consideration.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    https://youtu.be/Gz0I_v-ihsE

    John Campbell update. At the end there's a video from hospital of a guy with heart damage after first shot who was doing heavy workouts.
  • Theo166
    Theo166 Posts: 2,564 Member
    Another John Campbell update, on low Vit D and increased mortality

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwNgKJ-7YWQ
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    https://youtu.be/yPvUb9jo-Pw

    This news out of Europe is stressful. I expect there may be a new variant. China Covid-19 news is also stressful. Thankfully USA numbers are looking better but we are about to head into winter.
  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
    I really hope they are tracking which vaccines have the most break-through infections. It certainly sounds like J&J is less effective over the long term, since they recommend everyone over 18 get another shot 2 months after getting vaccinated, vs. only those at high risk and after 6 months for Pfizer and Moderna. I haven't heard anything about Astra-Zeneca's long term effectiveness, but I don't think that was ever used widely here in the US. I think it was widely used in Europe though. For those who had that shot, what are the recommendations as to boosters?

    Here in Canada anyway it was recommended that those who got AZ for their first shot get either Pfizer or Moderna for their second. Only one province in Canada so far has said they will be offering third shot boosters to the general public - and it will only be Pfizer or Moderna. I think AZ is basically phased out here.