Coronavirus prep
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@Snowflake954, I'm so sorry Italy is suffering so badly with this. I appreciate your posts from there and commend you for sticking with us here at MFP and for being an honest information gatherer. Passing on what you know and have learned is invaluable. I fear we here in the US are still on the upward swing of this thing and perhaps some of us are much more aware of the dangers facing us because of the warnings you are giving us. It's time for all us to focus on what we can do regardless of what the Federal Government is saying and doing.
Yesterday my husband and I, 72 and 70, decided that even though we are at lower risk because of our general good health (although he is slightly more at risk than I) we would adhere to the general consensus that we should just stay home unless it is essential we leave the house. We run a small business here in So Cal and will continue to ship product and go to the post office and bank only as financially necessary. We are going out for a few supplies here and there, but no big shopping trips or waiting in lines. We are not eating out at all or attending any social functions. We had a family gathering scheduled for Easter weekend which we have cancelled and that includes some flights for family members. I have a Dr. appointment tomorrow which I will keep as I've waited 3 months for it but I will take extra precautions while there. We believe it is our responsibility to not spread the virus or take up precious medical resources that others will need more than we might.
@psychgrrl, thanks for the well wishes re our daughter.
She was tested Friday at a drive thru testing site in SF. She tested negative for COVID-19 (thank goodness). Her doctor has instructed her to stay home while she is ill and perhaps beyond in the hopes she won't be exposed, especially since she is already sick and her lungs are compromised from 40 years of asthma. They may re-test her in the weeks to come. Her boss delivered a laptop and a few essential supplies to their apartment on Friday so she will be able to work from home until things improve. Her husband is legally blind and relies on her for transportation, grocery shopping and other essentials things that are difficult for him so she needs to continue with some of those things but only as necessary. He's a lawyer and will be going to work 2 days but staying home the other 3.
With the help of a neighbor and some online shopping they were able to stock some essentials so should be fine for a couple of weeks. They were unable to find TP, hand soap and hand sanitizers, so we sent them what we had and I made our own sanitizer and saved enough of our TP supply so we don't temporarily run out. She was able to get the last 3 canister case of sanitizing wipes delivered from their local Costco. She thinks these are important since her husband is still working with the public.
Anyway, that's what's happening in our neck of the woods. I'm feeling confident that my husband and I will not become ill for now, but I do think that eventually most of us will contract the virus. Maybe by then we'll know more and be better prepared to take care of everyone. Perhaps even a treatment or some sort of vaccine will be available who knows?
Stay safe and well!
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I started "buying ahead" staples a few weeks ago and so by the time this week's frenzy started we were in pretty good shape. My husband had a stroke last weekend (is home from the hospital and doing really well) so my focus now really is on staying as healthy as possible for as long as possible. This means that I am not planning to go out much and will avoid making any grocery runs at peak hours. I think that once the stocking up frenzy is over, this will be easier.
My city In Wisconsin, US is taking "social distancing" very seriously and various neighborhood groups have loosely organized so that folks can help each other out with errands, food, childcare and even cash as needed. This kind of community vs. individual focus is great ... it not only is beneficial in the larger social sense, it provides individuals with a way of being useful, which helps keep the panic down.
The # of confirmed cases has been steadily rising, and I expect that as testing becomes more widely available there will be an exponential increase. I expect the curve to continue rising for another 6-8 weeks, hopefully not sharply, and then begin to fall - if other countries' experience holds true here. An area of research that I am looking at is the stuff coming out on "virus shed" windows, or the # of days a person is still able to pass the virus on once they have recovered in terms of symptoms. I find stuff like this very interesting. As the data come out and reasonable conclusions can be drawn, it will help guide people who are in the most vulnerable populations to plan how long to be "careful" about moving around in the general population. The Lancet is my source for this info. Preliminary data from China suggests that the "shedding" window is the longest in patients who have been the most severely ill, which makes total sense.
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If people are being confronted with empty supermarket shelves, I notice that in London at least, hoarding behaviour hasn't hit the asian grocer's yet. I've been to two this week and they were both well stocked.10
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If people are being confronted with empty supermarket shelves, I notice that in London at least, hoarding behaviour hasn't hit the asian grocer's yet. I've been to two this week and they were both well stocked.
Around here the "mass market" grocery stores were hit first and hard. The smaller "mom and pop" and ethnic ones were not hit very hard at all.3 -
Washington state representing.
I'm old, so I've stopped playing around with my diet. Baked chicken (the dirty bird, yes, I know) three times a week, eggs and bacon twice a week. Lots of potatoes and veggies, as always. A gallon of water a day.
Basically, loading up on traditional protein and keeping my calories to under 2400. When this crisis is over, I'll go back to screwing with my diet.
I usually go to the YMCA to use their cardio in the winter--I have a home weight room--but that's out. I'll survive this cold snap without cardio and then hit the bicycle trails twice as hard.
My neighbors always laughed at me and my healthy habits, but who is laughing now! HA!7 -
If people are being confronted with empty supermarket shelves, I notice that in London at least, hoarding behaviour hasn't hit the asian grocer's yet. I've been to two this week and they were both well stocked.
Around here the "mass market" grocery stores were hit first and hard. The smaller "mom and pop" and ethnic ones were not hit very hard at all.
Same here, from what I've seen. My neighborhood meat market (which has a full range of foods) was normal on Friday.3 -
I'm in Washington state, pretty close to the confirmed cases and yes, I'm a tad worried. Not in a panic, but being cautious. I have little kids and have asthma myself so I don't want any of us catching ANYTHING that could land us in the hospital.
I'm wondering why is everyone stockpiling toilet paper?!?! That is selling out as quick as water around here!
I read that it is a herd-type panic thing. Like chickens flocking together and running thing.
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »
We are actually sick
(but I know what you mean). I'm not sure if we're at higher risk of more severe viral symptoms or not, but I imagine the potential for a prolonged worsening of ME symptoms, even with a non-severe case, is high. I've only recently gotten back to a level of 'wellness' that, if I don't recover any further, I'm okay with, I bloody well refuse to be set back. So I totally get you on the wanting to be able to continue to eat well thing. I guess squeeze as much frozen vege into that wee freezer as you can?
I'm glad I don't have to deal with the level of crazy panic other countries are seeing![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
I was able to get my hands on some frozen veggies so right now I have 2.5 bags of broccoli, .5 bag of diced peas and carrots, 1 bag of cauliflower, 1 bag of broccoli and cauliflower mix, 1 bag of sliced carrots, and 1 bag of a broccoli/cauliflower/carrot mix. Each bag can last me a few meals. I have some frozen fruit, but not much and it will mostly get used up in oatmeal this week for breakfast. I also froze a loaf of bread and some sauteed mushrooms so they wouldn't go bad. I have a chicken to roast tonight that will feed me all week for dinners. I have plenty of food and will be okay even if I do get sick, plus I have family and friends who I know will help out any way they can.
My anxiety just makes it hard to handle a change to my schedule (as does my OCD). I am doing the best I can right now and thankfully was able to get an early refill of my meds. I do worry about getting this virus and then having a flare up of my CFS. There is no way I can miss THAT much work.13 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »
We are actually sick (but I know what you mean). I'm not sure if we're at higher risk of more severe viral symptoms or not, but I imagine the potential for a prolonged worsening of ME symptoms, even with a non-severe case, is high. I've only recently gotten back to a level of 'wellness' that, if I don't recover any further, I'm okay with, I bloody well refuse to be set back. So I totally get you on the wanting to be able to continue to eat well thing. I guess squeeze as much frozen vege into that wee freezer as you can?
I'm glad I don't have to deal with the level of crazy panic other countries are seeing
I was able to get my hands on some frozen veggies so right now I have 2.5 bags of broccoli, .5 bag of diced peas and carrots, 1 bag of cauliflower, 1 bag of broccoli and cauliflower mix, 1 bag of sliced carrots, and 1 bag of a broccoli/cauliflower/carrot mix. Each bag can last me a few meals. I have some frozen fruit, but not much and it will mostly get used up in oatmeal this week for breakfast. I also froze a loaf of bread and some sauteed mushrooms so they wouldn't go bad. I have a chicken to roast tonight that will feed me all week for dinners. I have plenty of food and will be okay even if I do get sick, plus I have family and friends who I know will help out any way they can.
My anxiety just makes it hard to handle a change to my schedule (as does my OCD). I am doing the best I can right now and thankfully was able to get an early refill of my meds. I do worry about getting this virus and then having a flare up of my CFS. There is no way I can miss THAT much work.
I know this is hard for a lot of people. Just take things a day at a time and you'll be fine. It just takes some organizing and you're doing what you can. Do you have a mask? They will be impossible to find and if you absolutely need to go out you should have one. Here in Italy it's impossible to find them and the Chinese experts that arrived the other day say that they see too many people without. You've done your best--you can do no more.3 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Chinese billionaire Jack Ma is donating a million face masks and 500,000 coronavirus test kits to the US. I'm grateful for the support and hope that our government can work with people like him to tap into international sources for desperately needed medical supplies.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/tech/jack-ma-face-masks-us-donation/index.html
This is really out there and sounds like a bonkers conspiracy theory, but can anyone shoot down my thought that testing is being throttled not just for lack of resources but because the fewer people who get tested, the lower the number of confirmed cases and the better the numbers look politically?
It's dark and rainy here, and I've been sitting by myself all day recovering from trying to find tomato sauce for dinner and finding the apocalypse playing out at Safeway. My thoughts are dark.
I guess it's just me, but I think that would require a pretty large-scale, multi-participant conspiracy, a thing that humans are historically pretty bad at sustaining for very long.
And it would have to happen, now, in a leak-ridden political environment where plenty of journalists (and journalistic bottom-feeders besides) would be all too happy to find an break a well-documented version of that story . . . maybe even a poorly-documented one.
If that political conspiracy is happening, it can't hold, IMO.
There's already been reporting on it. And yes, it was reported that they decided not to test as a political hunch that warmer weather would kill it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-reportedly-rejected-aggressive-coronavirus-121835790.html
Anonymous sources, but I for one, wouldn't doubt this one bit.
I never said certain people in the administration - maybe quite a few - wouldn't manipulate or lie. I said I thought a conspiracy to throttle testing would not hold, i.e., could not be sustained for long.
And it didn't hold.
Various entities started developing their own tests. Parts of the central bureaucracy, and bureaucrats/politicians in the states, pushed back. People leaked stuff. Etc.
Large-scale conspiracies tend to fall apart, especially in relatively non-authoritarian, relatively open societies. When there are too many people involved, they have competing interests, opposing political views, motivations like jealousy/old grudges/revenge/financial benefit, and sometimes a few intended conspirators even turn out to have ethics. It's not that I think no one tries to conspire in nefarious ways; of course they do. Arrogance and hubris mean some startling things are attempted. Big conspiracies are just really hard to sustain.
ETA: Not trying to pick on you here, Mike, even though I'm replying to your post. There have been a few posts replying to mine that seemed to me to be disagreeing with something I didn't think I said (didn't intend to say, anyway), or something tangent to my PP. I'm sure that's because I was unclear, so trying to clarify . . . which will probably make it worse.
:drinker:
It sounded to me like you were saying that there was no way that testing was limited in the US on purpose for political gain, because it would require a wide ranging conspiracy that wouldn't be possible. I do disagree with that, because I don't think it would require much of a conspiracy.
I totally agree that wide ranging conspiracies are damn near impossible to carry out and even more impossible to sustain for long even if you can get them started, because humans gonna human.
This little version of the telephone game brought to you by the coronavirus
I have been watching a few episodes of the Leftovers every time there is a free HBO preview weekend and I should be able to finish it this weekend. Not quite post apocalyptic but kinda sorta. Not sure I could watch Contagion or Pandemic right now, this is as close as I get
To the bolded: Maybe the difference here is between attempting a conspiracy, and succeeding at one. (One can think of a conspiracy more as an event, or more as a process in a context. I'm talking process.)
Would a limited number of people in the administration be able to make such a plan, attempt such a conspiracy? Sure.
But in order for it to ultimately succeed, thousands of people would have to, at minimum, ignore events in the rest of the world and STFU, which isn't likely at all. Which thousands? Civil service types at CDC, opposing politicians, state/local government health officials, epidemiologists and infectious disease experts employed outside the government, researchers in related fields, health informatics people with access to world health data and news . . . and generally anyone with intelligence, knowledge of what's happened/happening in the rest of the world, access to information about the 1918 pandemic or even to information about smaller-scale more recent epidemics, etc. Plus, then, the journalists (or social media influencers, or whomever) that those people will start talking to.
Under current circumstances, such a conspiracy is highly, highly unlikely to succeed for very long at all. Too many people have reasons not to STFU.
Death threats without Secret Service protection are a pretty solid reason for STFU and being an anonymous source. The threats of lawsuits and Bill Barr prosecuting you don't help for political vendettas.
I don't honestly believe Trump suppressed tests, but I do think his underestimating it and calling it a flu/cold helped immensely to influence our ineptitude. Our arrogance, thinking the US always should "go it on our own" is stubborn and idiotic. The world all needs each other right now, whether anyone likes it or not.
I also think that shutting down the CDC's Pandemic response team was an attack on anything Obama did (Obama helped set it up from what we learned on SARS and MERS). That Pandemic response team's role was to be the early warning for us about potential pandemics.
Regardless, we're finally taking it serious and, for that, I'm happy. I just hope that Summer will slow it some. It looks like it will, but I think the next two months will be very rough.
I'm speaking pretty theoretically here, on this subject in this thread, about the structure of, and conditions needed for, major important conspiracies to succeed.
I will not be drawn into current cases in any specific, detailed way. I'm talking about a sort of corollary to Occam's razor, for assessing conspiracy allegations: One criterion IMO is the believability of what would take in order for a conspiracy to be sustained to success at its intended goal. Of course, we as individuals may differ on the believability in any specific case.
That said:
Sure, credible death threats are an excellent suppression tool, to get people to STFU. (Implausible but scary death threats will suppress a meeker few, or can be adequate to smallish, relatively low-stakes conspiracies.)
At some scale of conspiracy (some very large number of rquired collaborators or STFU-ers), the death threats need to be pretty open/public, and the conspirators need actual effective collaborating death squads at their disposal, army sized, for large scale suppression to work. If the context lacks those, death threats are just hot air, discourage only the meek, and the conspiracy breaks.
What exactly is that scale? Situational.
From the beginning of this sub-topic, I've been trying (imperfectly, obviously) to suggest that the original person (or others) who feared a conspiracy in this case (or others) use this kind of analysis to decide whether those fears were realistic, in his/her own mind.
How many people would need to be in on the conspiracy, as actual conspirators?
How many people, some potentially in positions with some authority but not at the core of the conspiracy, would need to actively cooperate in making it happen?
How many knowledgeable, expert people in academe/industry related to the conspiracy's goals, but not under its direct control, would know about it and need to at minimum STFU?
How many people in the legion of lower-level clerks and functionaries that would need to know and carry out details of the conspiracy, and also STFU?
What mechanisms of control and coercion do the conspirators have?
What motivations might the collaborators, cooperators, and STFU-ers (or even core conspirators) have to break ranks and out the conspiracy?
What mechanisms would those who break ranks have to publicize, counter in other ways, etc.? Would those be effective?
Etc.
I'm mostly suggesting an orientation to analyzing alleged conspiracies, and thinking about whether they're (first) likely to be happening, and (finally) likely to succeed. At some scale, in some contexts, certain alleged conspiracies become implausible candidates to happen, or to succeed.
It's an analytic framework, primarily . . . and all just my opinion. The actual analysis is for the person who's deciding what to believe.
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If people are being confronted with empty supermarket shelves, I notice that in London at least, hoarding behaviour hasn't hit the asian grocer's yet. I've been to two this week and they were both well stocked.
Around here the "mass market" grocery stores were hit first and hard. The smaller "mom and pop" and ethnic ones were not hit very hard at all.
Same here, from what I've seen. My neighborhood meat market (which has a full range of foods) was normal on Friday.
Yes, it seems as panicked as some people are, they aren't thinking of non traditional places for them to shop for food and essentials - ethnic markets, drug stores, that gas station that no one bothers to go to. So if you really need something, it's worth it to check those places.
A FB friend said she talked to her local grocery store manager and asked if he was worried about the empty shelves. He said and I'm paraphrasing was - people are gonna people, but the toilet paper truck is going to keep showing up. So I'm hopeful that as the hoarders get their TP forts finished up, and supply chain interruptions don't seem to be a big thing so far, those empty shelves will be temporary.9 -
My dad is in a nursing home that is already understaffed. He has had his watch stolen twice as well as a wedding ring. He also has to wait 30-45 minutes for help getting to the bathroom. His wife visits daily, which helps a lot. If they close off access to her, I don't know what will happen to him. He's 95.
The info about the Elder Orphans is something I will want to keep in mind. My husband is much older than I, so odds are I will end up alone. I have no children. My stepchildren are good people, but have no responsibility for my well being and aren't close to their father in any case. We talk to them every few months, at best. My siblings are far away and in bad health and I only talk to them once or twice a year. DH and I are both basically hermits, so although we have a lot of online 'friends' we don't have anybody who would notice if we disappeared for a while. BTDT - nobody cared. The only one who might notice is the postal carrier, and I don't know that she would do anything.10 -
Here in Maryland the governor just closed down all casinos and racetracks and off track betting
Oh and because this site is owned by under armour i know they also closed down their headquarters starting friday and have moved to work from home .2 -
spiriteagle99 wrote: »My dad is in a nursing home that is already understaffed. He has had his watch stolen twice as well as a wedding ring. He also has to wait 30-45 minutes for help getting to the bathroom. His wife visits daily, which helps a lot. If they close off access to her, I don't know what will happen to him. He's 95.
The info about the Elder Orphans is something I will want to keep in mind. My husband is much older than I, so odds are I will end up alone. I have no children. My stepchildren are good people, but have no responsibility for my well being and aren't close to their father in any case. We talk to them every few months, at best. My siblings are far away and in bad health and I only talk to them once or twice a year. DH and I are both basically hermits, so although we have a lot of online 'friends' we don't have anybody who would notice if we disappeared for a while. BTDT - nobody cared. The only one who might notice is the postal carrier, and I don't know that she would do anything.
FYI, there is a program that you can register for with the USPS. I'm providing the link below. It's a volunteer program so you can check to see if it's available in your area. If not, you can check with your local government for senior programs available in your area that will send out people to check on you if you don't respond to either email, texts, or phone calls regularly set up to monitor your health. Of course, I'm assuming you're in the United States. You may not be, but I'd guess most countries would have senior programs available that would be similar?
programsforelderly.com/safety-carrier-alert-usps.php
I hope this helps at least a little bit.9 -
This is long, but a good read (posted by an orthopedic surgeon in Hawthorne, NY):
https://www.howardluksmd.com/sports-medicine/covid-19-update-3-14-2020-concerned-physicians-unite/
I particularly like this comparison chart for those saying it's "just the flu."
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On Friday, they shut down all schools, colleges, universities, libraries, swimming pools, daycares and other public facilities up here.
It is, I think a very prudent response which sadly should be done in more communities. However, I still see IRL people who don’t quite comprehend the scale of what the math suggests this can become and are using this as an excuse to ‘hang out more’ FFS
As Mike said earlier, for you, our Southern neighbours, it is a good thing there were leaders within the various affected states who acted because nothing adequate was being done prior to that. Quite the opposite.
I can’t even recommend the CDC website to people for data since there are far better alternatives. That’s just sad 😞
For those interested, you can download data sets from the European equivalent cdc. Then there’s also worldometer which takes the same data it seems and makes it more visually palatable
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Here in Maryland the governor just closed down all casinos and racetracks and off track betting
Oh and because this site is owned by under armour i know they also closed down their headquarters starting friday and have moved to work from home .
PG county government/buildings is closed tomorrow. Will be interesting going to work tomorrow.. probably a ghost town..3 -
The bigger problem is the effect this is having on our farming industry. We're buying this stuff up regardless of the reason which can cause lands to be overused and eventually useless. If/when that happens, we'll just have to chop up more forests, right?1
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snowflake954 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »
We are actually sick (but I know what you mean). I'm not sure if we're at higher risk of more severe viral symptoms or not, but I imagine the potential for a prolonged worsening of ME symptoms, even with a non-severe case, is high. I've only recently gotten back to a level of 'wellness' that, if I don't recover any further, I'm okay with, I bloody well refuse to be set back. So I totally get you on the wanting to be able to continue to eat well thing. I guess squeeze as much frozen vege into that wee freezer as you can?
I'm glad I don't have to deal with the level of crazy panic other countries are seeing
I was able to get my hands on some frozen veggies so right now I have 2.5 bags of broccoli, .5 bag of diced peas and carrots, 1 bag of cauliflower, 1 bag of broccoli and cauliflower mix, 1 bag of sliced carrots, and 1 bag of a broccoli/cauliflower/carrot mix. Each bag can last me a few meals. I have some frozen fruit, but not much and it will mostly get used up in oatmeal this week for breakfast. I also froze a loaf of bread and some sauteed mushrooms so they wouldn't go bad. I have a chicken to roast tonight that will feed me all week for dinners. I have plenty of food and will be okay even if I do get sick, plus I have family and friends who I know will help out any way they can.
My anxiety just makes it hard to handle a change to my schedule (as does my OCD). I am doing the best I can right now and thankfully was able to get an early refill of my meds. I do worry about getting this virus and then having a flare up of my CFS. There is no way I can miss THAT much work.
I know this is hard for a lot of people. Just take things a day at a time and you'll be fine. It just takes some organizing and you're doing what you can. Do you have a mask? They will be impossible to find and if you absolutely need to go out you should have one. Here in Italy it's impossible to find them and the Chinese experts that arrived the other day say that they see too many people without. You've done your best--you can do no more.
snowflake954–Thank you for your updates from Italy. My husband is Italian (living in USA) and has family there near Lago di Garda, among other places. I have a question for you—I feel like the US is closing everything down pretty early on (which I agree with!), with 60 or so deaths in the whole country at this point. Do you think we’re doing better than Italy did in the beginning? Did Italy wait until the cases and deaths were already pretty high per capita before shutting things down? Or do you feel like they did try to catch the spread early on? Thank you for any insight.1 -
cmriverside wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »
I had been hearing and reading statements from medical authorities saying they hoped, based on other viruses, that those who recover from covid 19 would have immunity for some period of time, but that so far they didn't have any idea how long that immunity might last. Lay questioners on talk shows seemed to assume that it was a question of whether immunity would last for just a few years (like vaccines that you need boosters for) or for essentially your whole life. but I noticed the experts' responses didn't seem to commit to even "a few years." I guess they were right.
ETA: on the other hand, from the article PAV8888 posted, it appears they've only seen one case of presumed reinfection so far, and it's not clear that this individual ever tested negative. just that they were discharged from the hospital after "showing signs of recovery." I don't know how they decide whether it's a (so-far) rare case of reinfection, or a (rare?) case of an individual who has remained infected for a long time without fully recovering, just going through ups and downs as their body fights the disease.
EATA: Unlike the headline and the paraphrasing by the writer, the actual quotes from medical experts in the story PAV8888 linked seem to be speaking about relapse, not reinfection from another individual.
Thanks for posting this...I feel the same way about the scare-mongering "news" articles but I'm tired and when I started posting a rebuttal to that, "You will re-catch it!!!!!!!!" article I was so tired yesterday...you said it all. That article was badly written and had zero science behind the known facts we have about how virus immunity works.
@MikePfirrman
Maybe you missed Just Em (moderator) who came in on the last page telling us to keep politics out of this.
I'm going to make an attempt today to not get into the "discussion" about it. Seattle continues to be scared. I have enough food and TP for a month.
Yeah. I need to stay out of this thread.
I'm actually pretty independent. Governor Dewine (a Republican) believed the scientists. I thought DeBlasio and Cuomo (both Dems) reacted too slow to shut things down in NYC. I was appauled that the subways weren't shut down. I'm for science, not party.
Dewine has taken the lead for response among governors and I've been impressed. What I'm against is saying "it's just the flu". Anyone that says that, regardless of party, is a moron.5 -
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And a bit more gallows humor...
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lightenup2016 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »
We are actually sick (but I know what you mean). I'm not sure if we're at higher risk of more severe viral symptoms or not, but I imagine the potential for a prolonged worsening of ME symptoms, even with a non-severe case, is high. I've only recently gotten back to a level of 'wellness' that, if I don't recover any further, I'm okay with, I bloody well refuse to be set back. So I totally get you on the wanting to be able to continue to eat well thing. I guess squeeze as much frozen vege into that wee freezer as you can?
I'm glad I don't have to deal with the level of crazy panic other countries are seeing
I was able to get my hands on some frozen veggies so right now I have 2.5 bags of broccoli, .5 bag of diced peas and carrots, 1 bag of cauliflower, 1 bag of broccoli and cauliflower mix, 1 bag of sliced carrots, and 1 bag of a broccoli/cauliflower/carrot mix. Each bag can last me a few meals. I have some frozen fruit, but not much and it will mostly get used up in oatmeal this week for breakfast. I also froze a loaf of bread and some sauteed mushrooms so they wouldn't go bad. I have a chicken to roast tonight that will feed me all week for dinners. I have plenty of food and will be okay even if I do get sick, plus I have family and friends who I know will help out any way they can.
My anxiety just makes it hard to handle a change to my schedule (as does my OCD). I am doing the best I can right now and thankfully was able to get an early refill of my meds. I do worry about getting this virus and then having a flare up of my CFS. There is no way I can miss THAT much work.
I know this is hard for a lot of people. Just take things a day at a time and you'll be fine. It just takes some organizing and you're doing what you can. Do you have a mask? They will be impossible to find and if you absolutely need to go out you should have one. Here in Italy it's impossible to find them and the Chinese experts that arrived the other day say that they see too many people without. You've done your best--you can do no more.
snowflake954–Thank you for your updates from Italy. My husband is Italian (living in USA) and has family there near Lago di Garda, among other places. I have a question for you—I feel like the US is closing everything down pretty early on (which I agree with!), with 60 or so deaths in the whole country at this point. Do you think we’re doing better than Italy did in the beginning? Did Italy wait until the cases and deaths were already pretty high per capita before shutting things down? Or do you feel like they did try to catch the spread early on? Thank you for any insight.
This is hard to answer--it seems like years have pasted since the beginning. First of all, this is a new thing and people didn't realize. Everything exploded when one or two people were infected up North. Their families were all tested and quarantined. Everybody thought OK, got it. The problem is tracing contact. Try and remember where you went 2 weeks ago and who you saw in those 2 weeks. I sure couldn't do it and you're interrogating a very sick person besides. All of a sudden a whole town where this guy lived (it's a small town in the mountains) was locked up in quarantine. Journalists and bloggers (some young guys) drove up there in the dead of night and got through the road blocks and were driving around town "to show that it could be done". There was a lot of hand slapping of these guys, but as you can see--quarantines have holes.
So then there were other cases here and there, and it just went like dominos. There weren't many deaths at first, and they all were compromised--had other health issues. This changed as more and more arrived at the emergency rooms. An ambulance driver said yesterday "We're used to seeing very sick people, but we have 40 to 70 arrive every afternoon". An ambulance driver died yesterday of COV19. I think they did their best in the beginning. The North is organized and has excellent health care.
As far as the States doing better, if all this stocking up on essentials mean people stay home--then yes. But you always have the naysayers that will travel around and spread it. I saw a photo of the Chicago airport, jam packed and almost fainted. You only need one or two in that crowd to have it. Hoards of people in stores is not a good idea--no groups. Watch Mass or your religious service on TV. Use common sense, stay calm and batten down the hatches.12 -
Here's a good (if somewhat dry) read on the mechanics of changing social behavior. The link is to a summary of the chapters. The author is Malcolm Gladwell and the title is
"The Tipping Point
How Little Things Can Make A Big Difference"
Even though it is was published in 2000 it's still remarkably relevant. I read it a few years ago and am planning to go through it again soon.
http://www.wikisummaries.org/wiki/The_Tipping_Point#Chapter_1:_The_Three_Rules_of_Epidemics1 -
Another one is "Emergence" by Steven Johnson. Subtitled "The Connected Lives of Ants, Brains, Cities, and Software". Again, published in 2001 but still relevant. I freely admit I only got through the first couple of chapters, but I believe the first one explains toilet paper
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence:_The_Connected_Lives_of_Ants,_Brains,_Cities,_and_Software0 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »slimgirljo15 wrote: »I can't help but wonder about the single people with no family or close friends to check on them, in self isolation who get sick.. laying in bed progressively getting worse.. may die there with nobody to know
Sorry, sad thought I know
Thanks--that's me. Though not in isolation and still going to work. Single and NOT so ready to mingle any more.
Same here, though I suppose I would be working form home if I were self-quarantined. Someone would eventually notice that I'm not online, no longer responding to emails, etc.
But then again, this risk is there with or without Covid-19. As a type 1 diabetic, it is entirely possible that I just don't wake up one day due to a hypoglycemic event while sleeping. In fact, this has happened a few times over the years. Last time, a co-worker and friend noticed I didn't show up to work and knows about that risk. Back in 2009 when I was unemployed, this happened once and I "lost" about 2 weeks (but I didn't die at least). Perhaps my less concerned view on Covid-19 is because I focus on data rather than emotions and panic. Perhaps it is because the risk of dying is something that I am more acutely conscious of than most people Even though the risk of dying from Covid-19 is rather small, I get the sense that a whole lot of people believe otherwise. Since that is new to those people, maybe that is what is drawing panic.
On the other hand, I'm not convinced that I'll care after I die whether I was alone or asleep at the time or with others and/or awake.
Physicians and scientists such as Dr. Anthony Fauci and the people in this article (UC San Francisco) https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/03/416906/why-experts-are-urging-social-distancing-combat-coronavirus-outbreak
are not advising social distancing on the basis of emotions and panic. Please look at their definition of "reproductive number" and what it means as far as the spread.
The more it spreads, the more likely that those at higher risk of dying will get it.
I can believe that more people will die if more people get it. That is basic math. Much of the data I have seen indicates many and possibly most of us will get it anyway. It also isn't clear how long immunity lasts once an infected person recovers (as most do). It sounds like the logical expectation is that most will get it at some point, recover, and eventually get it again. Since that sounds exactly like the common cold, influenza, norovirus, and many other illnesses that spread around; I'm not sure if I can see a lot of benefit from cancelling everything. I can see a small benefit, but it is going to be limited at best. When schools and day carees cancel, a lot of kids are going to end up hanging out at the library or at a recreation center or something. If the goal is to limit person-to-person contact, then it will fail. The underlying result of shutting everything down will become an economic nightmare. And yes, people will die in the future when people become poor and can't afford basic essentials. How many lives are being saved and how many lives are being destroyed and lost in the future because of cancellations that don't actually limit person-to-person contact much, if any, in the end?2 -
cmriverside wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »slimgirljo15 wrote: »I can't help but wonder about the single people with no family or close friends to check on them, in self isolation who get sick.. laying in bed progressively getting worse.. may die there with nobody to know
Sorry, sad thought I know
As one of those people, I'm OK with that thought (for myself, anyway). I would call for an ambulance if I started having difficulty breathing. I telecommute, and a telecommuting colleague I email scores of times every day who lives nearby has promised to come over if I stop responding and pull me out when the corpse-barrow rolls by. ("But I'm not dead yet!").
We were talking about apocalypse movies and books...in the U.S. Monty Python In Search of the Holy Grail is on Netflix - I'm watching that today!!
We have a very large rabbit population in my neighborhood, so I'm not sure I need the anxiety of wondering if some of them have turned carnivorous.
6 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »slimgirljo15 wrote: »I can't help but wonder about the single people with no family or close friends to check on them, in self isolation who get sick.. laying in bed progressively getting worse.. may die there with nobody to know
Sorry, sad thought I know
Thanks--that's me. Though not in isolation and still going to work. Single and NOT so ready to mingle any more.
Same here, though I suppose I would be working form home if I were self-quarantined. Someone would eventually notice that I'm not online, no longer responding to emails, etc.
But then again, this risk is there with or without Covid-19. As a type 1 diabetic, it is entirely possible that I just don't wake up one day due to a hypoglycemic event while sleeping. In fact, this has happened a few times over the years. Last time, a co-worker and friend noticed I didn't show up to work and knows about that risk. Back in 2009 when I was unemployed, this happened once and I "lost" about 2 weeks (but I didn't die at least). Perhaps my less concerned view on Covid-19 is because I focus on data rather than emotions and panic. Perhaps it is because the risk of dying is something that I am more acutely conscious of than most people Even though the risk of dying from Covid-19 is rather small, I get the sense that a whole lot of people believe otherwise. Since that is new to those people, maybe that is what is drawing panic.
On the other hand, I'm not convinced that I'll care after I die whether I was alone or asleep at the time or with others and/or awake.
Physicians and scientists such as Dr. Anthony Fauci and the people in this article (UC San Francisco) https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/03/416906/why-experts-are-urging-social-distancing-combat-coronavirus-outbreak
are not advising social distancing on the basis of emotions and panic. Please look at their definition of "reproductive number" and what it means as far as the spread.
The more it spreads, the more likely that those at higher risk of dying will get it.
I can believe that more people will die if more people get it. That is basic math. Much of the data I have seen indicates many and possibly most of us will get it anyway. It also isn't clear how long immunity lasts once an infected person recovers (as most do). It sounds like the logical expectation is that most will get it at some point, recover, and eventually get it again. Since that sounds exactly like the common cold, influenza, norovirus, and many other illnesses that spread around; I'm not sure if I can see a lot of benefit from cancelling everything. I can see a small benefit, but it is going to be limited at best. When schools and day carees cancel, a lot of kids are going to end up hanging out at the library or at a recreation center or something. If the goal is to limit person-to-person contact, then it will fail. The underlying result of shutting everything down will become an economic nightmare. And yes, people will die in the future when people become poor and can't afford basic essentials. How many lives are being saved and how many lives are being destroyed and lost in the future because of cancellations that don't actually limit person-to-person contact much, if any, in the end?
Do you have some kind of professional or educational background that leads you to believe that you know how this virus will affect the population better than the world's leading epidemiologists and global health organizations?20 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »On the bright side, Kroger just announced it's restricting number of things that people can buy to stop the hoarding and reselling of items like sanitizer and toilet paper.
My local Wal Mart did this as well. Thankful for that. However, our supply distributors are running out of stuff. They told us people who normally order 10 cases of soap are ordering 100. Well, almost every other college campus in the area is closed--what are they using the soap for? We're going to have to call other campuses and try and buy supplies before they close and everyone goes home. We still have people.
Smart and Final did this with dried beans (2 per customer) though bulk beans were either low or sold out. Not sure of other stuff as it was the only thing I bought aside of produce, canned tomatoes, and a few frozen meals.0
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