Coronavirus prep
Replies
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Bojangles was putting all the salt and pepper shakers from the tables in boxes while we were there today... along with the advertising signs and things. he was writing something on the lids, I assume just labeling contents but not sure.2
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moonangel12 wrote: »Bojangles was putting all the salt and pepper shakers from the tables in boxes while we were there today... along with the advertising signs and things. he was writing something on the lids, I assume just labeling contents but not sure.
We went out to eat last night, and they had removed everything from the table. You had to ask for stuff. And they were wiping things down like crazy.
Went to Moe's earlier this week and the salsa bar was closed.
We're actually done with eating out now.6 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Chinese billionaire Jack Ma is donating a million face masks and 500,000 coronavirus test kits to the US. I'm grateful for the support and hope that our government can work with people like him to tap into international sources for desperately needed medical supplies.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/tech/jack-ma-face-masks-us-donation/index.html
This is really out there and sounds like a bonkers conspiracy theory, but can anyone shoot down my thought that testing is being throttled not just for lack of resources but because the fewer people who get tested, the lower the number of confirmed cases and the better the numbers look politically?
It's dark and rainy here, and I've been sitting by myself all day recovering from trying to find tomato sauce for dinner and finding the apocalypse playing out at Safeway. My thoughts are dark.
I guess it's just me, but I think that would require a pretty large-scale, multi-participant conspiracy, a thing that humans are historically pretty bad at sustaining for very long.
And it would have to happen, now, in a leak-ridden political environment where plenty of journalists (and journalistic bottom-feeders besides) would be all too happy to find an break a well-documented version of that story . . . maybe even a poorly-documented one.
If that political conspiracy is happening, it can't hold, IMO.
There's already been reporting on it. And yes, it was reported that they decided not to test as a political hunch that warmer weather would kill it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-reportedly-rejected-aggressive-coronavirus-121835790.html
Anonymous sources, but I for one, wouldn't doubt this one bit.
I never said certain people in the administration - maybe quite a few - wouldn't manipulate or lie. I said I thought a conspiracy to throttle testing would not hold, i.e., could not be sustained for long.
And it didn't hold.
Various entities started developing their own tests. Parts of the central bureaucracy, and bureaucrats/politicians in the states, pushed back. People leaked stuff. Etc.
Large-scale conspiracies tend to fall apart, especially in relatively non-authoritarian, relatively open societies. When there are too many people involved, they have competing interests, opposing political views, motivations like jealousy/old grudges/revenge/financial benefit, and sometimes a few intended conspirators even turn out to have ethics. It's not that I think no one tries to conspire in nefarious ways; of course they do. Arrogance and hubris mean some startling things are attempted. Big conspiracies are just really hard to sustain.
ETA: Not trying to pick on you here, Mike, even though I'm replying to your post. There have been a few posts replying to mine that seemed to me to be disagreeing with something I didn't think I said (didn't intend to say, anyway), or something tangent to my PP. I'm sure that's because I was unclear, so trying to clarify . . . which will probably make it worse.
:drinker: 8 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »On the bright side, Kroger just announced it's restricting number of things that people can buy to stop the hoarding and reselling of items like sanitizer and toilet paper.
My local Wal Mart did this as well. Thankful for that. However, our supply distributors are running out of stuff. They told us people who normally order 10 cases of soap are ordering 100. Well, almost every other college campus in the area is closed--what are they using the soap for? We're going to have to call other campuses and try and buy supplies before they close and everyone goes home. We still have people.4 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »slimgirljo15 wrote: »I can't help but wonder about the single people with no family or close friends to check on them, in self isolation who get sick.. laying in bed progressively getting worse.. may die there with nobody to know
Sorry, sad thought I know
Thanks--that's me. Though not in isolation and still going to work. Single and NOT so ready to mingle any more.
Same here, though I suppose I would be working form home if I were self-quarantined. Someone would eventually notice that I'm not online, no longer responding to emails, etc.
But then again, this risk is there with or without Covid-19. As a type 1 diabetic, it is entirely possible that I just don't wake up one day due to a hypoglycemic event while sleeping. In fact, this has happened a few times over the years. Last time, a co-worker and friend noticed I didn't show up to work and knows about that risk. Back in 2009 when I was unemployed, this happened once and I "lost" about 2 weeks (but I didn't die at least). Perhaps my less concerned view on Covid-19 is because I focus on data rather than emotions and panic. Perhaps it is because the risk of dying is something that I am more acutely conscious of than most people Even though the risk of dying from Covid-19 is rather small, I get the sense that a whole lot of people believe otherwise. Since that is new to those people, maybe that is what is drawing panic.
On the other hand, I'm not convinced that I'll care after I die whether I was alone or asleep at the time or with others and/or awake.
Physicians and scientists such as Dr. Anthony Fauci and the people in this article (UC San Francisco) https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/03/416906/why-experts-are-urging-social-distancing-combat-coronavirus-outbreak
are not advising social distancing on the basis of emotions and panic. Please look at their definition of "reproductive number" and what it means as far as the spread.
The more it spreads, the more likely that those at higher risk of dying will get it.
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Have you seen the pictures of DFW & ORD customs? It’s a nightmare. Hundreds of people arriving from Heathrow from god knows what country they’ve visited, standing shoulder to shoulder for hours. Insanity.
In other news, I’ve been eating like a lumberjack for days and unraveling months of progress. No exercise, just food and Twitter. I know I should put the phone down, but this is, you know, a big deal. Le sigh.15 -
I was at Trader Joe's this morning in LA (south bay) area. It was weird. People were shopping quickly instead of the usual meandering they do. Pretty much all meat and frozen veg/meals and canned goods were gone. There was plenty of milk and yogurt, but no soy milk. There were still eggs and bread, but I think they'll be sold out soon. The produce section looked like a normal day so apparently people aren't stocking up on fresh fruit and veg.
I think in a quarantine or zombie apocalypse junk food is critical, but the chips were as well stocked as a normal day, and there was plenty of ice cream available. The woman in line ahead of me seemed to be having some sort of minor panic attack over the lack of bottled water.
For Catholics, the Archbishop of Los Angeles has dispensed with the obligation to go to mass the next 3 Sundays. I don't see anything about that on the archdiocese website, but my parish put out a notice. I'm still trying to decide if I will go. I've had what I am about 99% certain is the flu and I'm almost recovered, but I'm not sure I can make it through mass without coughing at least once and I don't want to cause a panic.
Central IL the Bishops have called off all masses including weddings and funerals2 -
Have you seen the pictures of DFW & ORD customs? It’s a nightmare. Hundreds of people arriving from Heathrow from god knows what country they’ve visited, standing shoulder to shoulder for hours. Insanity.
In other news, I’ve been eating like a lumberjack for days and unraveling months of progress. No exercise, just food and Twitter. I know I should put the phone down, but this is, you know, a big deal. Le sigh.
I've been in comfort-junk-food eating mode today, but the weather has finally warmed up, and since I'm trying to be a good human being and limit social contacts, I figure I can start doing some long walks just to get out of the house. I live in a suburban area, and on the rare occasions you meet someone coming the other way, it's easy to step aside and give them a wide berth to maintain the recommended six-feet gap.6 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »I was at Trader Joe's this morning in LA (south bay) area. It was weird. People were shopping quickly instead of the usual meandering they do. Pretty much all meat and frozen veg/meals and canned goods were gone. There was plenty of milk and yogurt, but no soy milk. There were still eggs and bread, but I think they'll be sold out soon. The produce section looked like a normal day so apparently people aren't stocking up on fresh fruit and veg.
I think in a quarantine or zombie apocalypse junk food is critical, but the chips were as well stocked as a normal day, and there was plenty of ice cream available. The woman in line ahead of me seemed to be having some sort of minor panic attack over the lack of bottled water.
For Catholics, the Archbishop of Los Angeles has dispensed with the obligation to go to mass the next 3 Sundays. I don't see anything about that on the archdiocese website, but my parish put out a notice. I'm still trying to decide if I will go. I've had what I am about 99% certain is the flu and I'm almost recovered, but I'm not sure I can make it through mass without coughing at least once and I don't want to cause a panic.
Central IL the Bishops have called off all masses including weddings and funerals
south central oklahoma we still have mass obligation unless we are ill, compromised, or elder. Scant turn out tonight, and chances are we'll bail on services til Easter. I did cough in church. dang heat was too high and caused dry air. I'd also choked on excess chalky vitamin C chewables just before heading out to fend off the germies. I wasn't the only cougher. All the books in the pews have been confiscated as well as the wine and holy water.
Nice thing is that if i forced to stay put with no groceries, I won't need TP, and might just lose the weight I intend. I should find pet food though.9 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Chinese billionaire Jack Ma is donating a million face masks and 500,000 coronavirus test kits to the US. I'm grateful for the support and hope that our government can work with people like him to tap into international sources for desperately needed medical supplies.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/tech/jack-ma-face-masks-us-donation/index.html
This is really out there and sounds like a bonkers conspiracy theory, but can anyone shoot down my thought that testing is being throttled not just for lack of resources but because the fewer people who get tested, the lower the number of confirmed cases and the better the numbers look politically?
It's dark and rainy here, and I've been sitting by myself all day recovering from trying to find tomato sauce for dinner and finding the apocalypse playing out at Safeway. My thoughts are dark.
I guess it's just me, but I think that would require a pretty large-scale, multi-participant conspiracy, a thing that humans are historically pretty bad at sustaining for very long.
And it would have to happen, now, in a leak-ridden political environment where plenty of journalists (and journalistic bottom-feeders besides) would be all too happy to find an break a well-documented version of that story . . . maybe even a poorly-documented one.
If that political conspiracy is happening, it can't hold, IMO.
There's already been reporting on it. And yes, it was reported that they decided not to test as a political hunch that warmer weather would kill it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-reportedly-rejected-aggressive-coronavirus-121835790.html
Anonymous sources, but I for one, wouldn't doubt this one bit.
I never said certain people in the administration - maybe quite a few - wouldn't manipulate or lie. I said I thought a conspiracy to throttle testing would not hold, i.e., could not be sustained for long.
And it didn't hold.
Various entities started developing their own tests. Parts of the central bureaucracy, and bureaucrats/politicians in the states, pushed back. People leaked stuff. Etc.
Large-scale conspiracies tend to fall apart, especially in relatively non-authoritarian, relatively open societies. When there are too many people involved, they have competing interests, opposing political views, motivations like jealousy/old grudges/revenge/financial benefit, and sometimes a few intended conspirators even turn out to have ethics. It's not that I think no one tries to conspire in nefarious ways; of course they do. Arrogance and hubris mean some startling things are attempted. Big conspiracies are just really hard to sustain.
ETA: Not trying to pick on you here, Mike, even though I'm replying to your post. There have been a few posts replying to mine that seemed to me to be disagreeing with something I didn't think I said (didn't intend to say, anyway), or something tangent to my PP. I'm sure that's because I was unclear, so trying to clarify . . . which will probably make it worse.:drinker:
It sounded to me like you were saying that there was no way that testing was limited in the US on purpose for political gain, because it would require a wide ranging conspiracy that wouldn't be possible. I do disagree with that, because I don't think it would require much of a conspiracy.
I totally agree that wide ranging conspiracies are damn near impossible to carry out and even more impossible to sustain for long even if you can get them started, because humans gonna human.
This little version of the telephone game brought to you by the coronavirus
I have been watching a few episodes of the Leftovers every time there is a free HBO preview weekend and I should be able to finish it this weekend. Not quite post apocalyptic but kinda sorta. Not sure I could watch Contagion or Pandemic right now, this is as close as I get
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MikePfirrman wrote: »Chinese billionaire Jack Ma is donating a million face masks and 500,000 coronavirus test kits to the US. I'm grateful for the support and hope that our government can work with people like him to tap into international sources for desperately needed medical supplies.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/tech/jack-ma-face-masks-us-donation/index.html
This is really out there and sounds like a bonkers conspiracy theory, but can anyone shoot down my thought that testing is being throttled not just for lack of resources but because the fewer people who get tested, the lower the number of confirmed cases and the better the numbers look politically?
It's dark and rainy here, and I've been sitting by myself all day recovering from trying to find tomato sauce for dinner and finding the apocalypse playing out at Safeway. My thoughts are dark.
I guess it's just me, but I think that would require a pretty large-scale, multi-participant conspiracy, a thing that humans are historically pretty bad at sustaining for very long.
And it would have to happen, now, in a leak-ridden political environment where plenty of journalists (and journalistic bottom-feeders besides) would be all too happy to find an break a well-documented version of that story . . . maybe even a poorly-documented one.
If that political conspiracy is happening, it can't hold, IMO.
There's already been reporting on it. And yes, it was reported that they decided not to test as a political hunch that warmer weather would kill it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-reportedly-rejected-aggressive-coronavirus-121835790.html
Anonymous sources, but I for one, wouldn't doubt this one bit.
I never said certain people in the administration - maybe quite a few - wouldn't manipulate or lie. I said I thought a conspiracy to throttle testing would not hold, i.e., could not be sustained for long.
And it didn't hold.
Various entities started developing their own tests. Parts of the central bureaucracy, and bureaucrats/politicians in the states, pushed back. People leaked stuff. Etc.
Large-scale conspiracies tend to fall apart, especially in relatively non-authoritarian, relatively open societies. When there are too many people involved, they have competing interests, opposing political views, motivations like jealousy/old grudges/revenge/financial benefit, and sometimes a few intended conspirators even turn out to have ethics. It's not that I think no one tries to conspire in nefarious ways; of course they do. Arrogance and hubris mean some startling things are attempted. Big conspiracies are just really hard to sustain.
ETA: Not trying to pick on you here, Mike, even though I'm replying to your post. There have been a few posts replying to mine that seemed to me to be disagreeing with something I didn't think I said (didn't intend to say, anyway), or something tangent to my PP. I'm sure that's because I was unclear, so trying to clarify . . . which will probably make it worse.:drinker:
It sounded to me like you were saying that there was no way that testing was limited in the US on purpose for political gain, because it would require a wide ranging conspiracy that wouldn't be possible. I do disagree with that, because I don't think it would require much of a conspiracy.
I totally agree that wide ranging conspiracies are damn near impossible to carry out and even more impossible to sustain for long even if you can get them started, because humans gonna human.
This little version of the telephone game brought to you by the coronavirus
I have been watching a few episodes of the Leftovers every time there is a free HBO preview weekend and I should be able to finish it this weekend. Not quite post apocalyptic but kinda sorta. Not sure I could watch Contagion or Pandemic right now, this is as close as I get
I'm kind of disappointed that Netflix hasn't added a bunch of pandemic-related films for us all to watch. Watched Contagion not that long ago, so it doesn't really need another viewing at this stage. Maybe I'll watch Zombieland. Close enough, right?4 -
You can add Andromeda Strain to that list 😄3
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I heard from one of my high school friends today - we are planning on getting together online since we can’t meet up in person this year. He’s concerned about his mom who is in a nursing home which stopped accepting visitors to prevent exposure.
I made reassuring noises, but what bothers me about his mother’s situation is that I remember when my own dad was in a nursing home and the staff were completely untrustworthy. Once when I came for a visit I found my dad’s dinner tray sitting untouched on a table across the room from him - he wasn’t ambulatory and needed help with eating - they were just bringing in the tray and leaving it out of his reach, then taking it away again later so that he was actually starving. The “speech therapist” claimed she was “having great sessions” with him after he became completely non-verbal so I checked up on her, and her idea of a great session was sitting in silence reading a book to herself and then charging our insurance for a session. Since my dad had MRSA I asked for gloves to visit, and they didn’t know where the supply of gloves was. So yeah, it’s not like they were using them when changing IVs or fiddling with a picc line. Only by making sure someone visited every day at random times did he stay alive, and when I got a cold and couldn’t come for a week, not surprisingly he died. And the thing is, I talked to a friend who is an RN about what to do about the place, and did some research, and found - none of this was news, they were already under warnings for all kinds of violations - but they were the only place we could get my father into and we weren’t able to keep caring for him at home. And even if we had been able to pick a different home, pretty much every place else had a long list of the same kinds of violations, and according to my nurse friend it was standard practice to just sort of blow off care, since the staff felt that the residents were “circling the drain” anyway, why try?
So now, all across the US, these same staff members are in charge with no family members to keep tabs on them. They haven’t suddenly changed and become better people. They aren’t any better trained, or smarter, or more conscientious, they just know they don’t have to worry about what things look like when someone’s kid or spouse shows up. Some of them are the same staffs you have seen on the news in past years letting old people sit covered by filthy flood water after disasters, or not bothering to move them across the street to a hospital when their power went out and grandma’s ventilator stopped working. And now all across America they know no one is watching to make sure they do their jobs, plus, they are suddenly the front line who are supposed to be preventing the spread of deadly disease.30 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Chinese billionaire Jack Ma is donating a million face masks and 500,000 coronavirus test kits to the US. I'm grateful for the support and hope that our government can work with people like him to tap into international sources for desperately needed medical supplies.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/tech/jack-ma-face-masks-us-donation/index.html
This is really out there and sounds like a bonkers conspiracy theory, but can anyone shoot down my thought that testing is being throttled not just for lack of resources but because the fewer people who get tested, the lower the number of confirmed cases and the better the numbers look politically?
It's dark and rainy here, and I've been sitting by myself all day recovering from trying to find tomato sauce for dinner and finding the apocalypse playing out at Safeway. My thoughts are dark.
I guess it's just me, but I think that would require a pretty large-scale, multi-participant conspiracy, a thing that humans are historically pretty bad at sustaining for very long.
And it would have to happen, now, in a leak-ridden political environment where plenty of journalists (and journalistic bottom-feeders besides) would be all too happy to find an break a well-documented version of that story . . . maybe even a poorly-documented one.
If that political conspiracy is happening, it can't hold, IMO.
There's already been reporting on it. And yes, it was reported that they decided not to test as a political hunch that warmer weather would kill it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-reportedly-rejected-aggressive-coronavirus-121835790.html
Anonymous sources, but I for one, wouldn't doubt this one bit.
I never said certain people in the administration - maybe quite a few - wouldn't manipulate or lie. I said I thought a conspiracy to throttle testing would not hold, i.e., could not be sustained for long.
And it didn't hold.
Various entities started developing their own tests. Parts of the central bureaucracy, and bureaucrats/politicians in the states, pushed back. People leaked stuff. Etc.
Large-scale conspiracies tend to fall apart, especially in relatively non-authoritarian, relatively open societies. When there are too many people involved, they have competing interests, opposing political views, motivations like jealousy/old grudges/revenge/financial benefit, and sometimes a few intended conspirators even turn out to have ethics. It's not that I think no one tries to conspire in nefarious ways; of course they do. Arrogance and hubris mean some startling things are attempted. Big conspiracies are just really hard to sustain.
ETA: Not trying to pick on you here, Mike, even though I'm replying to your post. There have been a few posts replying to mine that seemed to me to be disagreeing with something I didn't think I said (didn't intend to say, anyway), or something tangent to my PP. I'm sure that's because I was unclear, so trying to clarify . . . which will probably make it worse.:drinker:
It sounded to me like you were saying that there was no way that testing was limited in the US on purpose for political gain, because it would require a wide ranging conspiracy that wouldn't be possible. I do disagree with that, because I don't think it would require much of a conspiracy.
I totally agree that wide ranging conspiracies are damn near impossible to carry out and even more impossible to sustain for long even if you can get them started, because humans gonna human.
This little version of the telephone game brought to you by the coronavirus
I have been watching a few episodes of the Leftovers every time there is a free HBO preview weekend and I should be able to finish it this weekend. Not quite post apocalyptic but kinda sorta. Not sure I could watch Contagion or Pandemic right now, this is as close as I get
To the bolded: Maybe the difference here is between attempting a conspiracy, and succeeding at one. (One can think of a conspiracy more as an event, or more as a process in a context. I'm talking process.)
Would a limited number of people in the administration be able to make such a plan, attempt such a conspiracy? Sure.
But in order for it to ultimately succeed, thousands of people would have to, at minimum, ignore events in the rest of the world and STFU, which isn't likely at all. Which thousands? Civil service types at CDC, opposing politicians, state/local government health officials, epidemiologists and infectious disease experts employed outside the government, researchers in related fields, health informatics people with access to world health data and news . . . and generally anyone with intelligence, knowledge of what's happened/happening in the rest of the world, access to information about the 1918 pandemic or even to information about smaller-scale more recent epidemics, etc. Plus, then, the journalists (or social media influencers, or whomever) that those people will start talking to.
Under current circumstances, such a conspiracy is highly, highly unlikely to succeed for very long at all. Too many people have reasons not to STFU.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »Chinese billionaire Jack Ma is donating a million face masks and 500,000 coronavirus test kits to the US. I'm grateful for the support and hope that our government can work with people like him to tap into international sources for desperately needed medical supplies.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/tech/jack-ma-face-masks-us-donation/index.html
This is really out there and sounds like a bonkers conspiracy theory, but can anyone shoot down my thought that testing is being throttled not just for lack of resources but because the fewer people who get tested, the lower the number of confirmed cases and the better the numbers look politically?
It's dark and rainy here, and I've been sitting by myself all day recovering from trying to find tomato sauce for dinner and finding the apocalypse playing out at Safeway. My thoughts are dark.
I guess it's just me, but I think that would require a pretty large-scale, multi-participant conspiracy, a thing that humans are historically pretty bad at sustaining for very long.
And it would have to happen, now, in a leak-ridden political environment where plenty of journalists (and journalistic bottom-feeders besides) would be all too happy to find an break a well-documented version of that story . . . maybe even a poorly-documented one.
If that political conspiracy is happening, it can't hold, IMO.
There's already been reporting on it. And yes, it was reported that they decided not to test as a political hunch that warmer weather would kill it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-reportedly-rejected-aggressive-coronavirus-121835790.html
Anonymous sources, but I for one, wouldn't doubt this one bit.
I never said certain people in the administration - maybe quite a few - wouldn't manipulate or lie. I said I thought a conspiracy to throttle testing would not hold, i.e., could not be sustained for long.
And it didn't hold.
Various entities started developing their own tests. Parts of the central bureaucracy, and bureaucrats/politicians in the states, pushed back. People leaked stuff. Etc.
Large-scale conspiracies tend to fall apart, especially in relatively non-authoritarian, relatively open societies. When there are too many people involved, they have competing interests, opposing political views, motivations like jealousy/old grudges/revenge/financial benefit, and sometimes a few intended conspirators even turn out to have ethics. It's not that I think no one tries to conspire in nefarious ways; of course they do. Arrogance and hubris mean some startling things are attempted. Big conspiracies are just really hard to sustain.
ETA: Not trying to pick on you here, Mike, even though I'm replying to your post. There have been a few posts replying to mine that seemed to me to be disagreeing with something I didn't think I said (didn't intend to say, anyway), or something tangent to my PP. I'm sure that's because I was unclear, so trying to clarify . . . which will probably make it worse.:drinker:
It sounded to me like you were saying that there was no way that testing was limited in the US on purpose for political gain, because it would require a wide ranging conspiracy that wouldn't be possible. I do disagree with that, because I don't think it would require much of a conspiracy.
I totally agree that wide ranging conspiracies are damn near impossible to carry out and even more impossible to sustain for long even if you can get them started, because humans gonna human.
This little version of the telephone game brought to you by the coronavirus
I have been watching a few episodes of the Leftovers every time there is a free HBO preview weekend and I should be able to finish it this weekend. Not quite post apocalyptic but kinda sorta. Not sure I could watch Contagion or Pandemic right now, this is as close as I get
To the bolded: Maybe the difference here is between attempting a conspiracy, and succeeding at one. (One can think of a conspiracy more as an event, or more as a process in a context. I'm talking process.)
Would a limited number of people in the administration be able to make such a plan, attempt such a conspiracy? Sure.
But in order for it to ultimately succeed, thousands of people would have to, at minimum, ignore events in the rest of the world and STFU, which isn't likely at all. Which thousands? Civil service types at CDC, opposing politicians, state/local government health officials, epidemiologists and infectious disease experts employed outside the government, researchers in related fields, health informatics people with access to world health data and news . . . and generally anyone with intelligence, knowledge of what's happened/happening in the rest of the world, access to information about the 1918 pandemic or even to information about smaller-scale more recent epidemics, etc. Plus, then, the journalists (or social media influencers, or whomever) that those people will start talking to.
Under current circumstances, such a conspiracy is highly, highly unlikely to succeed for very long at all. Too many people have reasons not to STFU.
Yeah but, we’ve sort of already caught them. Congressmen are writing to demand to know why the WHO tests were turned down, and no answers are forthcoming. The decision was made by a single person with only a handful of peers and superiors. The only thing that isn’t known at this point is what the motivation was for not accepting the same tests other nations accepted and then conducting testing they could perfectly well have done. We know they blew off testing, we just don’t know why. Was it stupidity or malice? Those are pretty much the only two possibilities.9 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »On the bright side, Kroger just announced it's restricting number of things that people can buy to stop the hoarding and reselling of items like sanitizer and toilet paper.
I don't know how effectively they are, or can, monitor that. I live in a town that is not that large. We have one "super" Smith's (Krogers). I saw those signs up about limiting, but the shelves are still wiped out to an alarming level. I would be surprised if the shelves could be like that given the population if the limiting was being enforced.
Last night canned goods, other shelf-stable items, frozen vegetables - completely gone (even though select groceries are also supposed to be limited). I went around midday today and was able to purchase some things, so I'm hoping that, given our population, it will level out the next couple of weeks. But given that every time I've gone the shelves have been empty of hand sanitizer for several weeks, and toilet paper, bleach, and most paper towels for a week or so, I don't know who the heck is buying everything. I'm wondering if those who commute in are shopping there, because the stores in the city they're commuting from are so much worse. I commute in the other direction and usually shop at Trader Joe's. On Thursday, Trader Joe's was out of nearly every shelf stable item and frozen vegetables. I was only able to find some things at a small neighborhood store. I heard the larger chains were insane.0 -
And on the lighter side (I guess)
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rheddmobile wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Chinese billionaire Jack Ma is donating a million face masks and 500,000 coronavirus test kits to the US. I'm grateful for the support and hope that our government can work with people like him to tap into international sources for desperately needed medical supplies.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/tech/jack-ma-face-masks-us-donation/index.html
This is really out there and sounds like a bonkers conspiracy theory, but can anyone shoot down my thought that testing is being throttled not just for lack of resources but because the fewer people who get tested, the lower the number of confirmed cases and the better the numbers look politically?
It's dark and rainy here, and I've been sitting by myself all day recovering from trying to find tomato sauce for dinner and finding the apocalypse playing out at Safeway. My thoughts are dark.
I guess it's just me, but I think that would require a pretty large-scale, multi-participant conspiracy, a thing that humans are historically pretty bad at sustaining for very long.
And it would have to happen, now, in a leak-ridden political environment where plenty of journalists (and journalistic bottom-feeders besides) would be all too happy to find an break a well-documented version of that story . . . maybe even a poorly-documented one.
If that political conspiracy is happening, it can't hold, IMO.
There's already been reporting on it. And yes, it was reported that they decided not to test as a political hunch that warmer weather would kill it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-reportedly-rejected-aggressive-coronavirus-121835790.html
Anonymous sources, but I for one, wouldn't doubt this one bit.
I never said certain people in the administration - maybe quite a few - wouldn't manipulate or lie. I said I thought a conspiracy to throttle testing would not hold, i.e., could not be sustained for long.
And it didn't hold.
Various entities started developing their own tests. Parts of the central bureaucracy, and bureaucrats/politicians in the states, pushed back. People leaked stuff. Etc.
Large-scale conspiracies tend to fall apart, especially in relatively non-authoritarian, relatively open societies. When there are too many people involved, they have competing interests, opposing political views, motivations like jealousy/old grudges/revenge/financial benefit, and sometimes a few intended conspirators even turn out to have ethics. It's not that I think no one tries to conspire in nefarious ways; of course they do. Arrogance and hubris mean some startling things are attempted. Big conspiracies are just really hard to sustain.
ETA: Not trying to pick on you here, Mike, even though I'm replying to your post. There have been a few posts replying to mine that seemed to me to be disagreeing with something I didn't think I said (didn't intend to say, anyway), or something tangent to my PP. I'm sure that's because I was unclear, so trying to clarify . . . which will probably make it worse.:drinker:
It sounded to me like you were saying that there was no way that testing was limited in the US on purpose for political gain, because it would require a wide ranging conspiracy that wouldn't be possible. I do disagree with that, because I don't think it would require much of a conspiracy.
I totally agree that wide ranging conspiracies are damn near impossible to carry out and even more impossible to sustain for long even if you can get them started, because humans gonna human.
This little version of the telephone game brought to you by the coronavirus
I have been watching a few episodes of the Leftovers every time there is a free HBO preview weekend and I should be able to finish it this weekend. Not quite post apocalyptic but kinda sorta. Not sure I could watch Contagion or Pandemic right now, this is as close as I get
To the bolded: Maybe the difference here is between attempting a conspiracy, and succeeding at one. (One can think of a conspiracy more as an event, or more as a process in a context. I'm talking process.)
Would a limited number of people in the administration be able to make such a plan, attempt such a conspiracy? Sure.
But in order for it to ultimately succeed, thousands of people would have to, at minimum, ignore events in the rest of the world and STFU, which isn't likely at all. Which thousands? Civil service types at CDC, opposing politicians, state/local government health officials, epidemiologists and infectious disease experts employed outside the government, researchers in related fields, health informatics people with access to world health data and news . . . and generally anyone with intelligence, knowledge of what's happened/happening in the rest of the world, access to information about the 1918 pandemic or even to information about smaller-scale more recent epidemics, etc. Plus, then, the journalists (or social media influencers, or whomever) that those people will start talking to.
Under current circumstances, such a conspiracy is highly, highly unlikely to succeed for very long at all. Too many people have reasons not to STFU.
Yeah but, we’ve sort of already caught them. Congressmen are writing to demand to know why the WHO tests were turned down, and no answers are forthcoming. The decision was made by a single person with only a handful of peers and superiors. The only thing that isn’t known at this point is what the motivation was for not accepting the same tests other nations accepted and then conducting testing they could perfectly well have done. We know they blew off testing, we just don’t know why. Was it stupidity or malice? Those are pretty much the only two possibilities.
Which is exactly where we started out in this sub-thread, I think: Someone asked:can anyone shoot down my thought that testing is being throttled not just for lack of resources but because the fewer people who get tested, the lower the number of confirmed cases and the better the numbers look politically
To which I replied
Meaning that it would break down.If that political conspiracy is happening, it can't hold, IMO.
So, yes, in this specific case, if there was a conspiracy, it has broken down, and pretty quickly. Testing is happening, and accelerating, in this case.
Will we learn the whys and wherefors? Will anyone come to account? I have no idea.
There seemed to be structural reasons in the situation that would cause such a conspiracy to fail. I don't really see any similar structural reasons why investigation or consequences would or wouldn't be likely to follow, so who the heck knows.4 -
Australian here. My husband and I called into a local supermarket this morning for 'a few things' I usually grocery shop exclusively online and rely on my small, independent local grocer for occasional purchases. Due to many items not being available online, we braved the supermarket.
Queues for the checkouts took 45 minutes and people were snaked through the store waiting to be delegated to a cashier. The shelves were practically bare of all dry staples and the only frozen vegetables left were kale and brussel sprouts.
There was a young woman lined up in front of us with a baby strapped to her chest and a toddler in her trolley. Her cart was full of essential food and baby items. I could see she was getting stressed about how much her groceries were going to cost and asked the cashier to stop scanning at a certain amount. My husband and I looked at the items left on the belt and asked the cashier to scan them with our items. No way could we let that poor Mum take her babies home without things that she clearly needed. She said her partner works FIFO and she has no family nearby. I've been there and know what it's like to barely get by. This current panic and 'need' to stock up is incredibly stressful for people who live week to week
In stark contrast, my sister works in a supermarket and they had to call the police on a man today who refused to line up for his groceries, screamed abuse at staff and tried to leave the store without paying. Insanity...31 -
smithker75 wrote: »Australian here. My husband and I called into a local supermarket this morning for 'a few things' I usually grocery shop exclusively online and rely on my small, independent local grocer for occasional purchases. Due to many items not being available online, we braved the supermarket.
Queues for the checkouts took 45 minutes and people were snaked through the store waiting to be delegated to a cashier. The shelves were practically bare of all dry staples and the only frozen vegetables left were kale and brussel sprouts.
There was a young woman lined up in front of us with a baby strapped to her chest and a toddler in her trolley. Her cart was full of essential food and baby items. I could see she was getting stressed about how much her groceries were going to cost and asked the cashier to stop scanning at a certain amount. My husband and I looked at the items left on the belt and asked the cashier to scan them with our items. No way could we let that poor Mum take her babies home without things that she clearly needed. She said her partner works FIFO and she has no family nearby. I've been there and know what it's like to barely get by. This current panic and 'need' to stock up is incredibly stressful for people who live week to week
In stark contrast, my sister works in a supermarket and they had to call the police on a man today who refused to line up for his groceries, screamed abuse at staff and tried to leave the store without paying. Insanity...
You are good people, @smithker75
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You know--reading this thread is like watching a movie for the second time. It's sad for me because here, in Italy, we went through this all 3 weeks ago.
News from Northern Italy is very bad. They don't know where to bury all the dead. People are trying to flee to the South or the islands where they have vacation homes. The virus will spread so they're trying to stop that. It's better than being shut up in an apartment with little kids, or bored teens, is the reasoning of most people. To tell the truth, I wish I was at the beach house. Too late now. This morning I got up at 6 and went fast walking for half an hour around the piazza half a block from us. At that hour, only 4 people were around. My husband refused to get up that early, so I went by myself. I think I'll do it again at 6 this evening when it starts to get dark.
Stay safe everyone.29 -
@Nony_Mouse I'd like to think everyone could extend a little kindness and compassion at the moment but I'm afraid these things don't always bring out the best in people.
Our Prime Minister for one...want to swap?...
6 -
smithker75 wrote: »@Nony_Mouse I'd like to think everyone could extend a little kindness and compassion at the moment but I'm afraid these things don't always bring out the best in people.
Our Prime Minister for one...want to swap?...
@smithker75 Yes, it would be nice to think everyone would extend kindness and compassion. Hopefully the majority will.
I think the plan is just for NZ to take over and name you guys West Island, isn't it? I see in the news that Aus is now following us on the 14 self isolation for anyone coming into the country. Better late than never, I guess![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
5 -
Hey guys - just a quick note, brought to you by our community guidelines12. Divisive topics work best in groups
I WILL:
• I will use groups to post divisive topics.
• I will be proud of my diversity and respectful of the diversity of our global community.
• I will ask myself if my discussion is relevant only to a particular group, for example, a specific religion or political view, and post that content in an appropriate group.
I WON'T:
• I won’t post divisive topics in the main forums.
• I won’t exclude any groups when posting in the main forums.
• I won’t post politics in the main forums.
Politics is one of those divisive topics that due to so many different points of view often causes threads to blow up and gets people warned. Please be mindful of this when posting. I know that there are lots of government-centric points to be made with regard to the COVID19 outbreak - this is fine to discuss, but please steer clear of discussing politics.
15 -
Have you seen the pictures of DFW & ORD customs? It’s a nightmare. Hundreds of people arriving from Heathrow from god knows what country they’ve visited, standing shoulder to shoulder for hours. Insanity.
In other news, I’ve been eating like a lumberjack for days and unraveling months of progress. No exercise, just food and Twitter. I know I should put the phone down, but this is, you know, a big deal. Le sigh.
Me too. Stress eating and using this virus as an excuse. I need to get my act together and get back to it. Weighing 25# more certainly isn't going to be helpful.
My dh works at our local high school, with around 1000 students, more than 125 of those dorm kids from lots of different countries plus up until the big spread in Italy happened, students were still on trips abroad. They can't even get more than 2 cases of disinfectant wipes. Their school is big?? I really hope they decide to shut down even though dh said it's not that easy to do. I realize there must be a LOT of planning that goes into that but......?? Even taking 1 class into consideration such as culinary or automotive, it'd be difficult to shift from on-hands teaching to online. But still, I think it'd be a very wise proactive move to make.
I hope and pray my family, friends, and all of you stay safe and healthy through all of this. My dd lives in Seattle, which scares the beejeezus out of me. My ds lives in a county with known cases and he's diabetic. My other dd lives in NC with more cases every day. My dh is a smoker and at age 69(almost) I wish he'd just retire. My sister and her dh are both elderly and in very compromised health. ::(
My brother told me yesterday, the Mormon church(he's a member) has closed all services for the unknown future and he heard there are 2 cases about 15 miles away from us(a place where I go to a LOT). It's hard to know what's true, what's not, what to worry about and when you're simply being paranoid. 8 -
snowflake954 wrote: »You know--reading this thread is like watching a movie for the second time. It's sad for me because here, in Italy, we went through this all 3 weeks ago.
News from Northern Italy is very bad. They don't know where to bury all the dead. People are trying to flee to the South or the islands where they have vacation homes. The virus will spread so they're trying to stop that. It's better than being shut up in an apartment with little kids, or bored teens, is the reasoning of most people. To tell the truth, I wish I was at the beach house. Too late now. This morning I got up at 6 and went fast walking for half an hour around the piazza half a block from us. At that hour, only 4 people were around. My husband refused to get up that early, so I went by myself. I think I'll do it again at 6 this evening when it starts to get dark.
Stay safe everyone.
Oh wow. I'm sorry and scared it's so bad there. But also, maybe by reading a post like this, people will be much more inclined to take this all seriously and not consider 'just a flu' anymore.
Thank you for sharing the way it is firsthand. I hope it gets better quickly for you, and for everyone. Stay safe!!7 -
rheddmobile wrote: »I heard from one of my high school friends today - we are planning on getting together online since we can’t meet up in person this year. He’s concerned about his mom who is in a nursing home which stopped accepting visitors to prevent exposure.
I made reassuring noises, but what bothers me about his mother’s situation is that I remember when my own dad was in a nursing home and the staff were completely untrustworthy. Once when I came for a visit I found my dad’s dinner tray sitting untouched on a table across the room from him - he wasn’t ambulatory and needed help with eating - they were just bringing in the tray and leaving it out of his reach, then taking it away again later so that he was actually starving. The “speech therapist” claimed she was “having great sessions” with him after he became completely non-verbal so I checked up on her, and her idea of a great session was sitting in silence reading a book to herself and then charging our insurance for a session. Since my dad had MRSA I asked for gloves to visit, and they didn’t know where the supply of gloves was. So yeah, it’s not like they were using them when changing IVs or fiddling with a picc line. Only by making sure someone visited every day at random times did he stay alive, and when I got a cold and couldn’t come for a week, not surprisingly he died. And the thing is, I talked to a friend who is an RN about what to do about the place, and did some research, and found - none of this was news, they were already under warnings for all kinds of violations - but they were the only place we could get my father into and we weren’t able to keep caring for him at home. And even if we had been able to pick a different home, pretty much every place else had a long list of the same kinds of violations, and according to my nurse friend it was standard practice to just sort of blow off care, since the staff felt that the residents were “circling the drain” anyway, why try?
So now, all across the US, these same staff members are in charge with no family members to keep tabs on them. They haven’t suddenly changed and become better people. They aren’t any better trained, or smarter, or more conscientious, they just know they don’t have to worry about what things look like when someone’s kid or spouse shows up. Some of them are the same staffs you have seen on the news in past years letting old people sit covered by filthy flood water after disasters, or not bothering to move them across the street to a hospital when their power went out and grandma’s ventilator stopped working. And now all across America they know no one is watching to make sure they do their jobs, plus, they are suddenly the front line who are supposed to be preventing the spread of deadly disease.
THAT is terrible!!!! We don't have a lot of rehab or nursing homes close by so our options are limited. BUT we certainly know which ones to consider if we ever needed one and they had beds available. When my parents went through times when it became necessary, my sister and I saw more than our share of questionable neglect; though I don't recall anything as bad as what you're talking about. My B-I-L just spent 3 months in a nursing home and my sister traveled there 98% of the time and everything she saw was wonderful. I also visited with her several times and was treated the same way. They treated her like gold, they treated him like gold, they were friendly and helpful. It was amazing. BUT the downside to all that is they hardly ever have empty beds. With health situations like this virus and even with the simple math of the baby boomer gen increasing the need, expansion of facilities should be happening at an enormous rate.
And your 'circling the drain' comment hit home so hard from when my parents were going through it. I cannot tell you how many times our concerns weren't held up as much as they should've been. We brought our dad from the 'home' to the ER(right across the street) because he was fading fast, waiting for a pacemaker from the VA. The ER doc said he's doing fine and to just go back and pinch some 'nurses' *kitten*'. Yep, his exact words. Brought him back to the ER because the 'home' wouldn't accept him back, said to put up a stink. So we did. They put him in the hospital, talked to the VA to up the pacemaker appt. and we had our dad for a few more wonderful years.
My mom had fallen and broken her vertebra, gone to a 'home' recovered okay, went back to live at home, fell again, went to the ER, dr. gave her morphine and asked her 20 minutes later if she felt any pain. Of course not, so she must've been miraculously cured, sent her back home where she couldn't even walk.
We really need to be the voice for ourselves and our loved ones because others don't listen unless pushed hard. 9 -
It's hard with all the uncertainty to not fall apart, but pull yourself together. There are people depending on you. You can only do what you can. At least in this modern age you can stay closely in touch with far flung family and friends. This is very hard to plan for, and a lot will depend on the government and their actions. We had decrees that came out in the middle of the night. We are going further into debt to support businesses and workers. Families will get help also. The health system that is on overload will get an infusion of capital. You will find things changing for you also. Do your best--no one can ask more.
Sorry I forgot to hit quote--this is for ReenieHJ13 -
If it is a nice day where you are can I encourage you all to get outside even if just to your yard or local park. I am not sure and the evidence is not in for covid-19 but Vitamin D in normal get some sun every day levels been shown to help immune system fight off other viruses. Also a bit of fresh air and exercise helps with anxiety, depression. So yeah get outside if at all possible at least 20 minutes a day.18
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