AUGUST 2023 Monthly Running Challenge
Replies
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I want to ask for everyone’s opinion on something. I signed up in the spring for a marathon when I optimistically thought I wouldn’t get sick/injured/busy with kids/work/summer holidays and could train a bunch to be well prepared for the race. Well now I’m a little less than 4 weeks out and haven’t even got a 10 miler in in months. The race wasn’t that expensive to sign up for, so I wouldn’t cry over it if I didn’t run it. Do you think I should still go for it, even though I know that I’m undertrained (obviously then without any grand time goals), or sit it out until I really feel I’ve put in the work? I do have a sprint triathlon this Sunday that I will definitely do and an obstacle course race where I will be running a combined 15km in two weeks. Your thoughts could be helpful in making my decision .
Is there a cutoff time for this marathon, and if there is do you think you might be able to finish if you walk a bit regularly? Is there an easy way to give up or would you be stuck in the middle of nowhere should things not work out as you'd hoped?
On that last one: I once trained hard for a half, was sure I'd manage but found out seconds after starting that I was sick. Basically, I ran 1km and spent 20km in the sweeper car (a golf cart where everyone could see me. sigh) because there was no other way to get back home. I'd rather not repeat that.
So.. if it's a bigger event would you be able to switch to a half, or a 10k on the same day? At least the chance of getting injured due to being undertrained is less big.3 -
martaindale wrote: »I went to my neighborhood trail today since I got out after sunrise. It's been a while. There were more people that I usually see on the trail. Seems like the secret is getting out. Saw my trail friend out walking his 2nd dog and this guy who walks barefoot with his dog that I have seen all over the neighborhood, but never on the trails. The bottoms of his feet are probably hard as a rock!
I met a lady at the Flying Pig 10K a few years ago who ran barefooted. Her feet looked just like a leather sandal on the bottom. I've heard that they become tough like that after so much barefooted walking and running. She said the only time that she wore shoes was when she had to a work. I believe she worked in a hospital or some sort of medical setting.6 -
Aug total: 82.5/100 miles
8/1: 5.6 miles
8/2: 3.3 miles
8/5: 10 miles
8/7: 7 miles
8/10: 6 miles
8/11: 5.1 miles
8/12: 9.2 miles
8/14: 3.1 miles
8/16: 4.1 miles
8/17: 4.1 miles
8/19: 10.2 miles
8/21: 3.1 miles
8/22: 5 miles
8/23: 6.7 miles
Unremarkable morning run. Hit a few sprinklers and the elementary school drop-off traffic. The one thing I miss about summer is the lack of school drop-off traffic.4 -
I decided to work my way up to a long run next week by doing a 10 miler this morning. It went fine, although it did seem harder than when I last ran it in the winter…. We’ll see how my run goes next week.
The event organisers told me I can switch to the half marathon if I want. The marathon is a 2 loop course, just with a different home stretch - the HM loop is run together with the marathon loop with the same start time - so worst case, I can bail after 1 loop.
I’m guessing I will need between 4hr:30 (optimistic guess) and 4hr:45 (realistic guess) to finish, which is a loooooong time running. I will definitely need lots of snacks . @yirara I think I can definitely make the cutoff time. If not, it’s in a nearby city (Kassel) that I know the pretty well, so I think I could always bail and find my way to the train station if need be.
I think I need to see how my body and mind can handle a really long run next week to decide for sure.
So far for August I have 78.7/160km.7 -
August Goal: 125 Miles
8/1: 6.26 miles
8/2: 5.57 miles
8/3: 5.12 miles
8/6: 11.26 miles
8/8: 6.26 miles
8/9: 6.02 miles
8/10: 6.04 miles
8/13: 10.26 miles
8/14: 1.56 miles
8/15: 7.02 miles
8/16: 6.06 miles
8/17: 6.31 miles
8/20: 13.15 miles
8/22: 6.02 miles
8/23: 6.26 miles
103.17/125 miles completed for August
I ran another 6.25 miles this morning. As usual, it was hot at 81°F but the temp did drop to 70°F by the end. I was too late to hit the sprinklers at the courthouse, and too early to hit the residential sprinkler I like to hit. I actually saw a man turning on the water and as I passed the house I heard the sprinklers start, but since I don't know him I just kept going. I did see a deer near the park and a skunk. The skunk was across the street from my house when I got home. Luckily he didn't seem to notice me and my dogs were in the house.
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I decided to work my way up to a long run next week by doing a 10 miler this morning. It went fine, although it did seem harder than when I last ran it in the winter…. We’ll see how my run goes next week.
The event organisers told me I can switch to the half marathon if I want. The marathon is a 2 loop course, just with a different home stretch - the HM loop is run together with the marathon loop with the same start time - so worst case, I can bail after 1 loop.
I’m guessing I will need between 4hr:30 (optimistic guess) and 4hr:45 (realistic guess) to finish, which is a loooooong time running. I will definitely need lots of snacks . @yirara I think I can definitely make the cutoff time. If not, it’s in a nearby city (Kassel) that I know the pretty well, so I think I could always bail and find my way to the train station if need be.
I think I need to see how my body and mind can handle a really long run next week to decide for sure.
So far for August I have 78.7/160km.
Wishing you lots of luck, and a wonderful run! Not saying where I live, but this race isn't too far from where I am! So fingers crossed for you3 -
I didn't notice my typo in time to edit my post. The temperature at the end of my run was 79°F, not70°F. It was slightly cooler than the 81°F at the beginning of the run, but not much.4
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Thanks for the advice everyone! I think I will go on a long run either Monday or Tuesday (depending on how sore the triathlon makes me) and then see. That sounds like a good plan and then I think I will let my body (and mind) decide if I’m up for it. If not, then oh well. It really isn’t that important to me and I’m more dreading it at this point than looking forward to it like I am to my other 2 races (especially the obstacle course one which is a ton of fun).
@quilteryoyo glad you found your cantaloupe!
This morning we got our coal delivery, for hopefully the entire winter. 4 metric tons of eco-pea coal in 25kg bags, 1 ton (40 bags) per pallet. A loaded pallet won't fit through the door to the furnace room, and the pallet jack would bust up the garage floor tile anyway... so we have to move them ourselves. I took the driveway station, unloading all of the bags onto a dolly and a skateboard a few steps away, so the kids could wheel them into the furnace room, where my husband stacked them how he wants them. The kids maybe picked up a few by themselves, or my son and I carried a few together, but for the most part I lifted almost all of them myself. It worked well but was a serious workout. We took lots of breaks, and didn't hurry. I tried to keep my heart rate low and use good lifting form. In the end we were done in under 2 hours. We rewarded the kids with fast food (I had a grilled chicken salad) and I'm laying down until further notice. I really hope this didn't mess me up, but will have to wait and see how I feel tomorrow or the next day.
In other news, the "up" button on my Suunto watch is stuck. I can't log a workout without it. I found some ideas and am going to try to fix it (it's 4+ years old and out of warranty). Looks like it's a common sports watch problem. But I was just thinking this morning about how, even though it's scratched from a cycling accident, it might be my last sports watch because how would I ever justify the expense of a new one (crybaby of me, I know🤣), and then an hour later it breaks on me. My older watch doesn't do HRV "body battery", which is the main thing I'm using it for right now. I hope I can fix it. Wish me luck!
@tarun_yadavA you are starting to sound like a certain @PastorVincent who used to be in here giving great advice but then going and doing crazy things himself and telling us not to do what he does. Take that as a huge compliment. He is missed.
@yirara running around a cemetery reminds me of that guy Ed Whitlock, who held all kinds of marathon and track age group records for ages 65-85. Anyway, his training was slow jogging in a cemetery near his home. Pretty cool guy.
Happy running [or whatever] everyone!9 -
I did see a deer near the park and a skunk. The skunk was across the street from my house when I got home. Luckily he didn't seem to notice me and my dogs were in the house.
After the hurricane blew through a surfeit of skunks seem to have taken residence behind my house. There were several large freshly dug holes smack in the middle of my yard. Since I moved here, I've heard about them from the neighbors, I've smelled them when the windows are open at night, now I have evidence there are 10 metres away from my bedroom, just camping out. Yet, I've never seen one.
I imagine I'll come bopping out in a hurry one night, meet one of the little buggers, who'll promptly turn and spray.4 -
@chris_in_cal wrote: »
After the hurricane blew through a surfeit of skunks seem to have taken residence behind my house. There were several large freshly dug holes smack in the middle of my yard. Since I moved here, I've heard about them from the neighbors, I've smelled them when the windows are open at night, now I have evidence there are 10 metres away from my bedroom, just camping out. Yet, I've never seen one.
I imagine I'll come bopping out in a hurry one night, meet one of the little buggers, who'll promptly turn and spray.
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@alphahowls I'll take all the skunk info you have. I live in the suburbs, and all three of the neighbors around me have dogs. In asking about the skunks a buddy said "that's why they came to your yard it's a safe space. You should get a dog too" Eh, no. I'll try other means. I assume they are in the holes during the daytime so I can't do anything, and at night when I can do stuff I can't see and they *might* be in there.
@polskagirl01 Ed Whitlock was one of my running heros (he passed a couple of years ago)
First man age 70+ to break 3 hours in a marathon....and he didn't stop
First man age 85+ to break 4 hours in a marathon.
I want to be Ed when I grow up.
August Running Goal: 18 runs, 75 miles- Aug 1 - 3.00 miles
- Aug 2 - 3.85 miles
- Aug 4 - 3.27 miles
- Aug 6 - 6.00 miles
- Aug 8 - 3.00 miles
- Aug 9 - 4.90 miles
- Aug 15- 3.00 miles
- Aug 16- 4.46 miles
- Aug 18- 6.00 miles
- Aug 21- 2.00 miles
- Aug 22- 5.76 miles
- Aug 23- 3.00 miles
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Morning all
Got in a 5 (09"12).
@polskagirl01 thanks for the compliment! lol
@Chris_in_cal good luck with the skunks!
We get urban foxes here in London... Skunks tho3 -
I decided to work my way up to a long run next week by doing a 10 miler this morning. It went fine, although it did seem harder than when I last ran it in the winter…. We’ll see how my run goes next week.
The event organisers told me I can switch to the half marathon if I want. The marathon is a 2 loop course, just with a different home stretch - the HM loop is run together with the marathon loop with the same start time - so worst case, I can bail after 1 loop.
I’m guessing I will need between 4hr:30 (optimistic guess) and 4hr:45 (realistic guess) to finish, which is a loooooong time running. I will definitely need lots of snacks . @yirara I think I can definitely make the cutoff time. If not, it’s in a nearby city (Kassel) that I know the pretty well, so I think I could always bail and find my way to the train station if need be.
I think I need to see how my body and mind can handle a really long run next week to decide for sure.
So far for August I have 78.7/160km.
Wishing you lots of luck, and a wonderful run! Not saying where I live, but this race isn't too far from where I am! So fingers crossed for you
@yirara hi!
Ooohhh that's 2 for Germany on here...
Joint third with UK and California!
Texas still leads with 4.6 -
AlphaHowls wrote: »@chris_in_cal wrote: »
After the hurricane blew through a surfeit of skunks seem to have taken residence behind my house. There were several large freshly dug holes smack in the middle of my yard. Since I moved here, I've heard about them from the neighbors, I've smelled them when the windows are open at night, now I have evidence there are 10 metres away from my bedroom, just camping out. Yet, I've never seen one.
I imagine I'll come bopping out in a hurry one night, meet one of the little buggers, who'll promptly turn and spray.
And if you have pets, do not leave cat food or dog food outside.1 -
August Goal: 125 Miles
8/1: 6.26 miles
8/2: 5.57 miles
8/3: 5.12 miles
8/6: 11.26 miles
8/8: 6.26 miles
8/9: 6.02 miles
8/10: 6.04 miles
8/13: 10.26 miles
8/14: 1.56 miles
8/15: 7.02 miles
8/16: 6.06 miles
8/17: 6.31 miles
8/20: 13.15 miles
8/22: 6.02 miles
8/23: 6.26 miles
8/24: 6.10 nukes
109.27/125 miles completed for August
I ran 6 miles this morning. It was 81°F at the start and 78°F at the end. I got up and got out about 20 minutes early because I was trying to get to work early this morning. It was dark the entire time. I did catch the sprinklers at the courthouse, but otherwise it was an uneventful run.
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Was aiming to do a short run this morning, but the weather was great, so I went a bit further and completed 9.2km. It even was raining at the end. I guess summer is over here already? I guess I’ll take it. My body doesn’t do too well in the heat. I feel fine after my long run yesterday.
@polskagirl01 That sounds like a literal ton of work! I hope you aren’t too tired from it. Good luck with your watch too! I hope you can get it to work again. I WAS dreading my marathon when I didn’t feel I had options, but now that I see I have a bunch, I am a lot more excited and open about being able to choose what option will be the best one for me at the time.
@scott6255 That’s a lot of treadmill miles!
Skunks! Good luck @chris_in_cal . I hope the light method works!4 -
Hey, y'all! I'm new to the group and even though it's closer to the end of the month than the beginning AND even though I'm not quite running yet (nearing the end of a 7ish week hiatus due to calf injury), I thought I'd join up.
I run 3-4x/wk (though walking for now)
Strength training and flexibility 2-3x/wk (modified to pamper that calf)
Unless something drastic happens this week/weekend (may the good God forbid!), I'll be back running on Monday! AND I CANNOT WAIT!!!!
When September gets here, I'll try to add the ticker. That looks pretty cute. For now I'll just log my runs/wkouts.
Happy running!10 -
Aug 2 – 4.77 miles
Aug 4 – 3.28 miles
Aug 5 – 4.34 miles
Aug 6 – 8.02 miles
Aug 8 – 4.01 miles
Aug 9 - 4.26 miles
Aug 14 – 4.01 miles
Aug 15 – 5.13 miles
Aug 16 – 5.02 miles
Aug 17 – 4.70 miles
Aug 20 – 5.45 miles
Aug 22 – 5.21 miles
Aug 24 – 7.15 miles
Total – 65.25 miles
I ran in town by myself this morning. Stuck mostly to the streets I thought were the safest and best lit. Although I enjoy running with my friends, sometimes it’s liberating to just turn here or there. Wherever my feet take me. When I run at home I have two options. Either up the road or down the road!
Welcome @catholicmum! I hope your calf injury is all healed. Happy Running!
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[quote="catholicmum;c-47643192"(nearing the end of a 7ish week hiatus due to calf injury)
(modified to pamper that calf)[/quote]
Hey welcome to the thread! It is a great group of MFP runners, most of whom came back a few days early from an injury and regretted it. Be careful, take your time.
Me on the other hand injured my shin and took three years off. You don't want to do that either. Goldilocks it, and come on back when healthy.6 -
@chris_in_cal I remember one particularly good interview Ed did, on the original version of the "Marathon Talk" podcast (before they rebranded and brought in Deena Kastor, who's great, but it's a completely different podcast).
I found a link to what I think is the episode I'm thinking of here: https://marathontalk.libsyn.com/episode-72-ed-whitlock
The interview starts just after 30 minutes in.
Unfortunately, my watch didn't survive the repair attempt. It looked simple enough on youtube... I opened it up, and thought I had fixed the mechanism, but just as I was about to test it, the battery died. So I put it all back together and charged it. The button was still not working. The second time I opened it up, a tiny connector piece disconnected, cutting power to the display, and I gave up on trying to reconnect it, because at that point 2 important buttons weren't working at all, meaning the watch was already useless.
I only attempted to fix it myself, because I couldn't use it without the button, the warranty ran out several years ago, and I didn't think it was worth paying and sending it in for official repair. If someone has a watch under warranty, do NOT do this yourself, you'll void your warranty!
Here's what it looked like inside:Might not be visible in the picture, but there was a hairline crack on the white part next to the mechanism for the broken button. Could've even happened back when I had the bike accident, as it hit the road pretty hard. My guess is the repair shop would've charged me for the repair plus a new watch unit for inside. Not really worth it. Still sad.
I got my old watch out.Suunto Spartan Trainer with wrist HR. Mountain map in the background, being overtaken by artwork.
It's old and very blue 😁, but it has sleep tracking and 24-hr HR monitoring. No body battery. I may just use the sleep tracking and leave the watch off except for workouts.
I can still do my daily HRV checks for my pacing apps with my Polar HR strap. (I use "Visible" for long haulers & ME/CFS, and "EliteHRV" geared towards athletes/general health, and compare the results when assessing how I'm feeling and what I can plan for the day.)
I took it very easy today, as planned. I'm feeling about the same as the past few days, which is bad, but also good that I'm not feeling worse after yesterday's workout. The pacing apps didn't show any warnings this morning, either. So far so good. PEM (post-exertional malaise) has both a delay, and a cumulative effect, so I'll definitely need to be careful tomorrow too.7 -
Hey all! I know I haven't been here in quite a while but I'm going to try to make more frequent appearances again.
My running started off REALLY well this year and for the first 5 months it looked like I would make my goal of 1500 miles for the year, but June got crazy with work and the effort involved in buying a new sailboat. I went 6 weeks with only 2 runs and even after that it was hard to get back into a rhythm, averaging just 12 miles a week for the last 5 weeks. I need to get it in gear, though, with several trail races tentatively on my calendar:
9/23 - In Yan Teopa 10 mile
9/30 - Grand Traverse 27 mile
10/28 - Glacier Hills 50K
11/18 - Stuffed Turkey 100 mile (or km, depending on how training has gone when I register).
But, like I said, the year started out well. On April 1st I attempted my first 100 mile race in Jackson, Georgia, the Bootlegger 100. It was just 10 minutes from my brothers house and he was my crew. The race had two 5 mile loops, so I saw him quite often. I didn't think I'd like such small loops but it worked out great for having setting up a personal aid station and having my brother there to help every time I passed through. He had no prior experience with any of it but he learned quickly, was helping out other racers when I wasn't there, and loved the trail running community...so much so that he's fired up to help me again next year. I wasn't going to enter that race in 2024 but he's so excited about me trying again that I just can't break his heart by not doing it.
As I said, it was an attempt. I made it 70 miles before quitting. I was in plenty of pain but I was mentally prepared for that, and that's not what caused me to stop. What caused me to stop was that after 23 hours I couldn't keep my eyes open. On my last 5 mile loop I was down to 30 minute miles and often stopped to lean up against a tree, frequently almost falling asleep until nearly falling and waking myself up.
Twice on that loop I had hallucinations from the exhaustion. First I thought a rock on the trail was a hedgehog, but I soon realized that it was just a rock. The *big* hallucination was when I approached a big tree with a black spot at the base. I thought it was a rabid skunk coming out of a hole in the trunk to attack me. It even had glistening eyes! I jumped off the trail, nearly falling, and it took what seemed like several minutes for my mind to figure out that it wasn't moving, and it wasn't a skunk. That was just crazy!
It was indeed a tough race, especially when I had to train in the cold, snowy Minnesota winter and then race in temps up to 80F. There was also a thunderstorm during miles 20 to 25 and I waited until mile 30 to change socks and shoes. By then I had a HUGE blister on the balls of my feet which would only increase in size and pain for the next 40 miles. I later started getting blisters DEEP in my heels. Those blisters took 4 weeks to work their way to the surface after the race. The other pain I had was in my back and shoulders, likely from losing my form and posture as I grew more and more tired. I never did get any cramping, which was a nice change.
The highlights of the race were really getting to know the other 30 racers on the looped course and cheering each other on, seeing a few armadillo in the night (the locals laughed at me because they're so common, but we don't have them in Minnesota), and the food. It was my first race where the aid station served pulled pork sandwiches. Amazing!
I did learn quite a bit and will have a better race plan next time. I'll go out slower, I've got ideas to save time in the aid station, and I'll probably take a few cat naps at night. I'll also avoid caffeine in the weeks leading up to the race, and not take any during the race until the early hours of that second day. I may bring some red bulls as well. Most importantly, I'll try to get more sleep leading up to the race. The morning of, I only got 3 hours.
I did get credit for completing the 50 mile race and ended up 27th out of 30th, with a time of 14h 27m. Surprisingly my recovery went very well. I was in bed by 8am the second day and up at 2pm. My brother took me to a local state park for some light hiking and then to a hidden Revolutionary War cemetery. It was enough walking to help with recovery. I stayed there the following day to make sure I felt good then headed home the next day.
The trip to and from was fantastic. I took 2 weeks off and slowly drove my way down with no predetermined route. I avoided the interstate as much as I could, driving just 5% of my 3000 miles on them. I took mostly 2 lane roads and once even found myself on a single lane dirt road for several miles in the Ozarks. On the way down I also stopped to run at a state park in Iowa, on the Trail of Tears in Arkansas, The Natchez Trace in Mississippi, and the Pinhoti Trail in Alabama. Beautiful! I met my brother at a campground on the border between Alabama and Georgia and we spent 3 days camping and bass fishing. On the way home I didn't do any running but did drive through some scenic areas, such as the Land Between the Lakes in TN & KY. I may stop there next year on the way down and run there.
Some photos from the race photographer:
I never took any photos, wanting to focus solely on finishing, but here's some video my brother took.Here's the start of the race, at 5AM
https://youtu.be/JN2X-cfJuXo
and here's me coming in to the aid station after 50 miles, still feeling pretty good
https://youtu.be/hTXGDcixSXg
Two weeks later my wife left for the weekend so I looked for a short race to do. I ended up finding the "Norwegian Foot March and Trail Run". Apparently the local National Guard and U of M ROTC have a relationship with the Norwegian military and have been doing a 30k foot march, with a fully loaded ruck. They recently opened it up to the public to either do the foot march or a trail race (not really a trail...mostly gravel road). I signed up for it and had a fantastic time. It rained the entire time, which was great for me, not so great for those with full gear. I managed a 10:13 pace, which I thought was amazing given that I just had a 70 mile run two weeks prior. There were 300 in the military foot march, 28 in the civilian foot march, and just 13 of us in the trail run.
The next race I ran was the Superior Spring 50K, on the Superior Hiking Trail in northern MN. This was the 3rd time I've run this one. The heat was killer and though I didn't have a great time, I finished 132nd out of 183, which I was very happy with.
Some photos from the race photographers:4 -
I met a lady at the Flying Pig 10K a few years ago who ran barefooted. Her feet looked just like a leather sandal on the bottom. I've heard that they become tough like that after so much barefooted walking and running. She said the only time that she wore shoes was when she had to a work. I believe she worked in a hospital or some sort of medical setting.
In April I photographed a 100 trail mile race and saw a guy who was running in sandals, IN THE SNOW!. I thought he was running the entire race in them but it turns out it was just for a single 17 mile loop. Still, that seems crazy.
This past winter I did run once or twice a week in a sports dome with artificial turf. Took the opportunity to run at least 2 miles each time barefoot. I had sore feet and calves the first couple of times but quickly adapted. I think running barefoot helped me improve my form.
@polskagirl01 that sounds like quite the workout!
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@7lenny7 Welcome back, and thank you for sharing your race stories!4
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The next race I ran was the Superior Spring 50K, on the Superior Hiking Trail in northern MN. This was the 3rd time I've run this one. The heat was killer and though I didn't have a great time, I finished 132nd out of 183, which I was very happy with.
Just to clarify, I mean I didn't have a great finish time. I definitely had a great time at the race!
Thanks, @polskagirl01 !
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]Hey welcome to the thread! It is a great group of MFP runners, most of whom came back a few days early from an injury and regretted it. Be careful, take your time.
Me on the other hand injured my shin and took three years off. You don't want to do that either. Goldilocks it, and come on back when healthy.[/quote]
I already regret it! I knew I pulled it and took it easy for a week. The next week I divertido right back in . . . And then it was 6-8 weeks. 🥺
3 years!! I hate that for you!4 -
Hey there @7lenny7! Glad to see you back. I know you have been crazy busy. Have followed them all on Strava. Lots of sailing too!
Welcome @catholicmum. Happy that you will be able to start running again. I know it will be hard, but just take it SLOW and build back up SLOW 😁
6.3 TM miles for me today.
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catholicmum wrote: »I hate that for you!
Three years and eighty pounds. Yup. On the other hand, living in the moment, this is a good group and I've carefully and slowly began running again. It makes me happy.
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This weeks runs so far:
8/22 - 4.3 miles with a heat index of 114F
8/23 - 4.3 miles with a heat index of 104F
8/24 - 5.9 miles with a heat index of just 89F
On 8/22 and 8/23 I actually waited for the hottest part of the day to go out and run. I hated running in that heat, but I like that it forces my body to adapt to the heat, and it makes the normal summer heat feel so much better. That third run was not bad at all, but had I not experienced the two blazing hot run the previous two nights I would have hated it.
The 114F heat index is my hottest run so far, and gives me a 171F degree difference between my hottest and coldest (-57F wind chill) runs ever.Hey there @7lenny7! Glad to see you back. I know you have been crazy busy. Have followed them all on Strava. Lots of sailing too! [/img]
Thanks! Haha...yeah, I bought a Garmin Fenix 6X Pro this spring and found out it will track sailing. I like to go back and see our course on the lake.
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