So you want a nice stomach
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Looks like we need to bump. How long did it take for some of you to see your flat stomach? I'm 5 weeks in, trying to look forward to the next mini milestone of two months
My stomach is a ways away from "flat" but I've been doing progressive weight lifting for a few years and while I'm still in the "over weight" BMI range, I can see my obliques and the top 4 abdominal muscles are outlined. I'll probably need to lose about 12 more pounds before I start getting a center-line indent, but it's kind of cool that I can be this heavy and still see my muscles...
It's also kind of cool to know my body well enough that I can tell you that I need to lose about 12 more pounds to see a specific change in my body.3 -
My stomach ain’t flat but there’s less fat than when I was heavier and not strength training. I think I’m one of those people who needs to put some direct core work into their programming but honestly I can’t increase my time at the gym atm. I’m focussing in other body parts namely legs and bum. The 6 pack is likely not achievable for me ever or maybe only at a competition level of leanness. Which isn’t a goal of mine presently.2
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I'll probably never have revealed abs or anything but I'd sure be happy with a tighter tummy..sitting at 21% body fat ATM so I still have a ways to go..but I'm finally just letting it happen now, no more "belly fat blasting" diets, compounds, potions, tinctures, herbs, magic spells, etc.. lol.1
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IIFYM isn't the healthiest of diet plans. Yes, it get's results, but so does the Twinkie Diet. Abs and malnourished shouldn't be the goal.
That is not what IIFYM is.6 -
IIFYM isn't the healthiest of diet plans. Yes, it get's results, but so does the Twinkie Diet. Abs and malnourished shouldn't be the goal.
IIFYM doesn't leave people malnourished.4 -
IIFYM isn't the healthiest of diet plans. Yes, it get's results, but so does the Twinkie Diet. Abs and malnourished shouldn't be the goal.
Any diet can be unhealthy. You can be vegan and eat only processed foods. You can follow IIFYM and eat healthier than a "clean" eater simply because your macros are better balanced.
IIFYM isn't seeing how much candy and protein shakes you can fit in your calorie goal. IIFYM is saying a piece of pizza or a Snickers isn't a failure in the context of your entire intake. You can fuel your body well and enjoy any food (in moderation). They are not mutually exclusive.
Some people find that eating a specific way (ketosis, clean, vegan, etc.) is better for them personally when it comes to adherence. That's not wrong. IIFYM is suggested here to let people know that having visible abs doesn't require eating clean. Using IIFYM to fit in as much "junk" in their diet as possible won't lead to long term adherence and adequate gym performance to accomplish a great physique (outside of the use of steroids).13 -
Wow, the IIFYM debate has livened this thread up.
IIFYM has been a game changer for me. It’s not for everyone though. I like the flexibility and my diet is reasonably nutritious overall.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »IIFYM isn't the healthiest of diet plans. Yes, it get's results, but so does the Twinkie Diet. Abs and malnourished shouldn't be the goal.
IIFYM doesn't leave people malnourished.
It can. If one gets the vast majority their "correct" % of carbs from nutrient poor food as opposed to fruits, veggies, whole grains they will have a good chance of being malnourished.
Many of our foods are fortified, so the risk of malnourishment isn't as dramatic as your post is making it seem. As I stated previously, adherence to IIFYM long term is difficult when someone is eating unbalanced. Fruits and vegetables are more filling than a donut. That doesn't make it bad to have a donut, but long term people who adhere to their macros will find that eating foods with higher satiety levels makes it easier to stay with.
If someone eats Lucky Charms cereal for breakfast instead of oatmeal they'll actually be opting for a higher number and more diverse micronutrients. The macros for both are relatively close as well. The oatmeal might be more filling for some, but the taste might be more satisfying to others.8 -
Thank you!! I’ve tried this last week and already am seeing results! I did try to eat leaner meats to digest easily2
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In this day and age it would take a concerted effort for someone to become malnourished due to food choice. Any diet that contains even a semblance of a hint of any sort of variety is going to provide the macro and micro nutrients needed.
I mean when was the last time you heard of someone with adequate access to food suffering from malnutrition? Short of perhaps a prolonged monotrophic diet malnutrition isn't a risk.5 -
It's actually pretty easy to be malnourished and hit your macros on any diet. My point with the original post was IIFYM is bad from a foundational/core principle perspective - eat whatever you want if it fits your macros. Yes, we can massage the definition into eat healthy and just have a cheat meal every so often as long as it fits your macros, but that is not truly IIFYM.
Hidden hunger: America’s growing malnutrition epidemic
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/10/nutrition-hunger-food-children-vitamins-us
Americans Are Malnourished (But Not for the Reasons You'd Think)
https://www.shape.com/healthy-eating/diet-tips/americans-are-malnourished-not-reasons-youd-think
You are seriously mistaken on what IIFYM is and the goal behind it. At this point I highly encourage you to join the debate section of the forum to discuss IIFYM further and avoid derailing this thread.13 -
It's actually pretty easy to be malnourished and hit your macros on any diet. My point with the original post was IIFYM is bad from a foundational/core principle perspective - eat whatever you want if it fits your macros. Yes, we can massage the definition into eat healthy and just have a cheat meal every so often as long as it fits your macros, but that is not truly IIFYM.
Hidden hunger: America’s growing malnutrition epidemic
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/10/nutrition-hunger-food-children-vitamins-us
Americans Are Malnourished (But Not for the Reasons You'd Think)
https://www.shape.com/healthy-eating/diet-tips/americans-are-malnourished-not-reasons-youd-think
You are seriously mistaken on what IIFYM is and the goal behind it. At this point I highly encourage you to join the debate section of the forum to discuss IIFYM further and avoid derailing this thread.
Seconded. h.9 -
It's actually pretty easy to be malnourished and hit your macros on any diet. My point with the original post was IIFYM is bad from a foundational/core principle perspective - eat whatever you want if it fits your macros. Yes, we can massage the definition into eat healthy and just have a cheat meal every so often as long as it fits your macros, but that is not truly IIFYM.
Hidden hunger: America’s growing malnutrition epidemic
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/10/nutrition-hunger-food-children-vitamins-us
Americans Are Malnourished (But Not for the Reasons You'd Think)
https://www.shape.com/healthy-eating/diet-tips/americans-are-malnourished-not-reasons-youd-think
Quoted directly from IIFYM website:* Eat less food than you were eating when you gained weight
* Move your body more than you currently are, to help get your blood flowing (this will also help with digestion which is a good thing).
* Focus on being consistent. Though accuracy is super important and pretty much, undeniable.
* …and if you can, try to get a wide variety of foods that are high in micronutrients, minerals, electoleyes, phytonutrients, plant sterols and probiotics (fermented foods are easy enough).
Otherwise, get loads of sleep, lower stress and perform those things that add to your happiness rather than add to your chaos and before long, you will have the physique and the life you want.
So terrible. Not.
P.S. Misspellings are all theirs. Note that I didn't unfairly chop the "if you can".
A zillion blogs and diet/fitness IG "experts" and such out there giving advice . . . the IIFYM advice is substantially better and more level-headed than most.
Also note: I'm not any kind of disciple or devotee of formal IIFYM. I have nutritional goals, and I try to hit them the overwhelming majority of the time. That's it.5 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »It's actually pretty easy to be malnourished and hit your macros on any diet. My point with the original post was IIFYM is bad from a foundational/core principle perspective - eat whatever you want if it fits your macros. Yes, we can massage the definition into eat healthy and just have a cheat meal every so often as long as it fits your macros, but that is not truly IIFYM.
Hidden hunger: America’s growing malnutrition epidemic
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/10/nutrition-hunger-food-children-vitamins-us
Americans Are Malnourished (But Not for the Reasons You'd Think)
https://www.shape.com/healthy-eating/diet-tips/americans-are-malnourished-not-reasons-youd-think
Quoted directly from IIFYM website:* Eat less food than you were eating when you gained weight
* Move your body more than you currently are, to help get your blood flowing (this will also help with digestion which is a good thing).
* Focus on being consistent. Though accuracy is super important and pretty much, undeniable.
* …and if you can, try to get a wide variety of foods that are high in micronutrients, minerals, electoleyes, phytonutrients, plant sterols and probiotics (fermented foods are easy enough).
Otherwise, get loads of sleep, lower stress and perform those things that add to your happiness rather than add to your chaos and before long, you will have the physique and the life you want.
So terrible. Not.
P.S. Misspellings are all theirs. Note that I didn't unfairly chop the "if you can".
A zillion blogs and diet/fitness IG "experts" and such out there giving advice . . . the IIFYM advice is substantially better and more level-headed than most.
Also note: I'm not any kind of disciple or devotee of formal IIFYM. I have nutritional goals, and I try to hit them the overwhelming majority of the time. That's it.
Agree, not terrible, pretty much common sense. Personally don't like the "and if you can, try to get a wide variety of foods that are high in micronutrients, minerals, electoleyes, phytonutrients, plant sterols and probiotics (fermented foods are easy enough)." Be a *kitten* adult and do it.
I didn't realize the self acknowledged founder if IIFYM has no formal training in nutrition.
https://www.iifym.com/about-iifym/
He's basically telling people to do what the CDC tells people to do for free and getting rich off it. It's all in the marketing. CDC does't up up random before and after pictures on their site. But I guess if it helps people great.
The whole "be an adult and do it" thing isn't helpful. You're essentially telling people they're doomed to eat foods they dislike or to stay fat. That sort of mentality and approach isn't healthy or helpful. People need tools to help them along the way, not a parent figure telling them to grow up.
The IIFYM site is far from the only available resource on IIFYM. The guy who started that site just put a name to what others were already doing. The macronutrient suggestions on the IIFYM site quoted above don't even closely resemble the CDC's suggestions.9 -
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Bumping for the new year.7
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quiksylver296 wrote: »
Hi! Might be actually seeing you at a meet (or randomly at a fight) this year. 2019 was harsh.3 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »
Hi! Might be actually seeing you at a meet (or randomly at a fight) this year. 2019 was harsh.
Sweet! I'll be at all the Mecca meets, I'm sure. I'm not competing until June, though.2 -
Bumpity bump :flowerforyou:2
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I can’t believe this thread is stil active lmao it’s been since 2016 last I logged before this week lol0
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angelexperiment wrote: »I can’t believe this thread is stil active lmao it’s been since 2016 last I logged before this week lol
Yer but people ask the same question and the first post on this thread is the best info out there. The OP knows her stuff.5 -
I have a few questions for the OP (and anyone else), but first, some context:
Stats:- Height: 183cm
- Starting Weight: 80kg (April 2019)
- Current Weight: 68kg
- BMI: 20.3
- BF: ~15%
- BMR: ~1653
- TDEE (sedentary): 1984
- TDEE (lightly active): 2273
- Daily Calories: 1600-1700
- Macros: 30P/30F/40C
- Protocol: 17:7 intermittent fasting
- Self-assessed quality: B
- Cable Row: 3x9
- Arnold Press: 3x9
- Lying Tricep Extension: 3x12
- Barbell Curl: 3x12
- Bench Press: 3x9
- Lat Pulldown: 3x9
- Barbell Squat: 3x9
- Calf Raise: 3x12
- Weighted Captain's Chair: 3x12
- Seated Leg Curl: 3x12
- Cable Woodchopper: 3x12
Perhaps obviously, I'm posting in this thread because I haven't yet achieved my target appearance; I've lost a full ring size and have visible ribs, but my belly still flops over my jeans in a maddening fashion. Not looking for bodybuilding adonis, just a nice stomach. Now, my questions:- Basing my intake on the sedentary TDEE - 20%, not eating back exercise calories (at ~400/week, not much point), and allowing myself one untracked day per week has resulted in a reliable weekly loss rate of 0.5-1.0 pounds. However, now that I've lost weight, this puts me below my BMR. In your experiences, will this lower my BMR and/or increase LBM loss?
- My basic training approach has been to add weight when I can hit my rep and set targets relatively easily. Recently, I've noticed a severe plateau in my ability to do this. In some cases, I've started to regress slightly. Is this normal at my current BMI/BF% while in a 20% deficit? Should I increase intake to allow for overload or stay the course until my belly recedes?
- Do you recommend any changes to my routine and/or diet (my food diary should be public) to expedite this final, infuriating stage?
Thanks in advance!
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WAIT: You're 6 ft tall and 149 pounds?!? Are you male or female? How old are you? Would you be willing to share a photo of this terrible belly? Maybe you need to check out this thread (if female)...
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10689837/does-this-uterus-make-my-stomach-look-fat/p1
First response, before I converted height and weight: Where'd you get your workout plan from, @friedpet? It seems really random. The first thing I'd tweak is getting on a proven, progressive lifting program. Stay in a slight food deficit, 250 calories under Eat at maintenance, and hit the weights. Oh, and put on your patient pants. Stupid bellies are stupid.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p13 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »WAIT: You're 6 ft tall and 149 pounds?!? Are you male or female? How old are you? Would you be willing to share a photo of this terrible belly? Maybe you need to check out this thread (if female)...
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10689837/does-this-uterus-make-my-stomach-look-fat/p1
First response, before I converted height and weight: Where'd you get your workout plan from, @friedpet? It seems really random. The first thing I'd tweak is getting on a proven, progressive lifting program. Stay in a slight food deficit, 250 calories under Eat at maintenance, and hit the weights. Oh, and put on your patient pants. Stupid bellies are stupid.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
Profile says male.
OP, you are approaching underweight status. As a 6' male, you are eating less calories than I am, and I'm a 5'4 female. You should at least be focused on recomp, and perhaps would see better aesthetic results from doing a bulk. You are either not seeing yourself accurately, or you are under-muscled, and neither will be benefited by continuing to eat at a deficit.4 -
I have a few questions for the OP (and anyone else), but first, some context:
Recently, I've noticed a severe plateau in my ability to do this. In some cases, I've started to regress slightly. Is this normal at my current BMI/BF% while in a 20% deficit? Should I increase intake to allow for overload or stay the course until my belly recedes?
[*] Do you recommend any changes to my routine and/or diet (my food diary should be public) to expedite this final, infuriating stage?
[/list]
Thanks in advance!
You are eating at -20% from sedentary per your description; but, you are not sedentary, per your description. So you are eating at a paper deficit that is greater than 20%.
BMI ~20 + the above quoted information from your post = you should probably be eating at maintenance or considering options other than losing even more weight as your vehicle to the physique you want.0 -
The workout plan was adapted from my gym's (LifeTime Fitness) beginner upper/lower body training routines. A full circuit hits most of the major muscle groups. Also, I've had my patient pants on for the last ten months. Not terribly long, I know, but I'd find them easier to tolerate if they were loosening at the same rate as my wedding ring.quiksylver296 wrote: »First response, before I converted height and weight: Where'd you get your workout plan from, @friedpet? It seems really random. The first thing I'd tweak is getting on a proven, progressive lifting program. Stay in a slight food deficit, 250 calories under Eat at maintenance, and hit the weights. Oh, and put on your patient pants. Stupid bellies are stupid.
I'm likely somewhat under-muscled, as I have no serious history of strength training prior to last year. I recently had a medical Tanita bioimpedance scan report that 5/6 body areas contain "average" muscle (oddly, my left leg reported low), but I'm aware that such scans aren't overly accurate. I was steadily adding weight to my lifts up until about three months ago, so I'm at least a little less under-muscled than when I started.Profile says male.
OP, you are approaching underweight status. As a 6' male, you are eating less calories than I am, and I'm a 5'4 female. You should at least be focused on recomp, and perhaps would see better aesthetic results from doing a bulk. You are either not seeing yourself accurately, or you are under-muscled, and neither will be benefited by continuing to eat at a deficit.
I have one untracked day per week, largely because my favorite Thai restaurant doesn't have nutrition info available. While I don't go full-tilt binge-mode on these days, I'm willing to bet I average 500 over sedentary maintenance, which brings my weekly average up to ~1,750 per day. Thus far, my weight loss hasn't exceeded the recommended cap of 1 pound per week, so I've been content with this estimation.You are eating at -20% from sedentary per your description; but, you are not sedentary, per your description. So you are eating at a paper deficit that is greater than 20%.
BMI ~20 + the above quoted information from your post = you should probably be eating at maintenance or considering options other than losing even more weight as your vehicle to the physique you want.
Regarding the general consensus of eating at maintenance: I'm concerned that doing so would lead to unfavorable (read: belly) weight gain. Lifting weights doesn't burn a significant amount of calories, which I why I set my activity level at sedentary. My body clearly prefers storing the first available excess energy where I least desire, so it will be all too easy to lose what progress I've made.
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It sounds like you aren't on board with our suggestions, @friedpet? I'll wish you the best of luck, then, and see myself out.4
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The workout plan was adapted from my gym's (LifeTime Fitness) beginner upper/lower body training routines. A full circuit hits most of the major muscle groups. Also, I've had my patient pants on for the last ten months. Not terribly long, I know, but I'd find them easier to tolerate if they were loosening at the same rate as my wedding ring.quiksylver296 wrote: »First response, before I converted height and weight: Where'd you get your workout plan from, @friedpet? It seems really random. The first thing I'd tweak is getting on a proven, progressive lifting program. Stay in a slight food deficit, 250 calories under Eat at maintenance, and hit the weights. Oh, and put on your patient pants. Stupid bellies are stupid.
I'm likely somewhat under-muscled, as I have no serious history of strength training prior to last year. I recently had a medical Tanita bioimpedance scan report that 5/6 body areas contain "average" muscle (oddly, my left leg reported low), but I'm aware that such scans aren't overly accurate. I was steadily adding weight to my lifts up until about three months ago, so I'm at least a little less under-muscled than when I started.Profile says male.
OP, you are approaching underweight status. As a 6' male, you are eating less calories than I am, and I'm a 5'4 female. You should at least be focused on recomp, and perhaps would see better aesthetic results from doing a bulk. You are either not seeing yourself accurately, or you are under-muscled, and neither will be benefited by continuing to eat at a deficit.
I have one untracked day per week, largely because my favorite Thai restaurant doesn't have nutrition info available. While I don't go full-tilt binge-mode on these days, I'm willing to bet I average 500 over sedentary maintenance, which brings my weekly average up to ~1,750 per day. Thus far, my weight loss hasn't exceeded the recommended cap of 1 pound per week, so I've been content with this estimation.You are eating at -20% from sedentary per your description; but, you are not sedentary, per your description. So you are eating at a paper deficit that is greater than 20%.
BMI ~20 + the above quoted information from your post = you should probably be eating at maintenance or considering options other than losing even more weight as your vehicle to the physique you want.
Regarding the general consensus of eating at maintenance: I'm concerned that doing so would lead to unfavorable (read: belly) weight gain. Lifting weights doesn't burn a significant amount of calories, which I why I set my activity level at sedentary. My body clearly prefers storing the first available excess energy where I least desire, so it will be all too easy to lose what progress I've made.
By definition, eating maintenance calories means eating the calories at which you will neither lose or gain weight. You said you are currently losing weight, so we are suggesting you eat a bit more so that you stop losing weight.
Regardless, considering the stats you provided, you either have an unrealistic idea of a what a real person's stomach is supposed to look like, or you have body dysmorphia and aren't seeing what's really there, or you are quite under-muscled. Continuing to lose weight is not going to make you look better at this point, and eating at a deficit is hampering your ability to build muscle. But if you aren't willing to eat more, and you aren't willing to consider that you might have better success with a different lifting program, I don't have any other ideas for you. Best of luck!8 -
Here are my most recent status pictures, taken last Friday immediately after waking up.By definition, eating maintenance calories means eating the calories at which you will neither lose or gain weight. You said you are currently losing weight, so we are suggesting you eat a bit more so that you stop losing weight.
Regardless, considering the stats you provided, you either have an unrealistic idea of a what a real person's stomach is supposed to look like, or you have body dysmorphia and aren't seeing what's really there, or you are quite under-muscled. Continuing to lose weight is not going to make you look better at this point, and eating at a deficit is hampering your ability to build muscle. But if you aren't willing to eat more, and you aren't willing to consider that you might have better success with a different lifting program, I don't have any other ideas for you. Best of luck!
Perhaps my perception is skewed, but it looks to me like my stomach isn't flat. It protrudes off of my ab wall, and when I flex my abs, I can poke a good 0.5-1 inches of squishy stuff before I feel the muscle. I admit that I am under-muscled (as I previously stated), but I have been regularly lifting weights and had been making progressive increases every few weeks until around the first of November. Doesn't that indicate that I was building for a time even in a deficit? If so, why has that stopped?
I'm not opposed to trying a different routine. I just want to know if anyone has any ideas about why mine has stopped working or even why I should switch given that it's promoted by a nationwide gym chain as a good place to start and not something I pulled from thin air.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be an *kitten*. I'm just very frustrated and looking for advice.
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