So you want a nice stomach
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The workout plan was adapted from my gym's (LifeTime Fitness) beginner upper/lower body training routines. A full circuit hits most of the major muscle groups. Also, I've had my patient pants on for the last ten months. Not terribly long, I know, but I'd find them easier to tolerate if they were loosening at the same rate as my wedding ring.quiksylver296 wrote: »First response, before I converted height and weight: Where'd you get your workout plan from, @friedpet? It seems really random. The first thing I'd tweak is getting on a proven, progressive lifting program. Stay in a slight food deficit, 250 calories under Eat at maintenance, and hit the weights. Oh, and put on your patient pants. Stupid bellies are stupid.
I'm likely somewhat under-muscled, as I have no serious history of strength training prior to last year. I recently had a medical Tanita bioimpedance scan report that 5/6 body areas contain "average" muscle (oddly, my left leg reported low), but I'm aware that such scans aren't overly accurate. I was steadily adding weight to my lifts up until about three months ago, so I'm at least a little less under-muscled than when I started.Profile says male.
OP, you are approaching underweight status. As a 6' male, you are eating less calories than I am, and I'm a 5'4 female. You should at least be focused on recomp, and perhaps would see better aesthetic results from doing a bulk. You are either not seeing yourself accurately, or you are under-muscled, and neither will be benefited by continuing to eat at a deficit.
I have one untracked day per week, largely because my favorite Thai restaurant doesn't have nutrition info available. While I don't go full-tilt binge-mode on these days, I'm willing to bet I average 500 over sedentary maintenance, which brings my weekly average up to ~1,750 per day. Thus far, my weight loss hasn't exceeded the recommended cap of 1 pound per week, so I've been content with this estimation.You are eating at -20% from sedentary per your description; but, you are not sedentary, per your description. So you are eating at a paper deficit that is greater than 20%.
BMI ~20 + the above quoted information from your post = you should probably be eating at maintenance or considering options other than losing even more weight as your vehicle to the physique you want.
Regarding the general consensus of eating at maintenance: I'm concerned that doing so would lead to unfavorable (read: belly) weight gain. Lifting weights doesn't burn a significant amount of calories, which I why I set my activity level at sedentary. My body clearly prefers storing the first available excess energy where I least desire, so it will be all too easy to lose what progress I've made.
By definition, eating maintenance calories means eating the calories at which you will neither lose or gain weight. You said you are currently losing weight, so we are suggesting you eat a bit more so that you stop losing weight.
Regardless, considering the stats you provided, you either have an unrealistic idea of a what a real person's stomach is supposed to look like, or you have body dysmorphia and aren't seeing what's really there, or you are quite under-muscled. Continuing to lose weight is not going to make you look better at this point, and eating at a deficit is hampering your ability to build muscle. But if you aren't willing to eat more, and you aren't willing to consider that you might have better success with a different lifting program, I don't have any other ideas for you. Best of luck!8 -
Here are my most recent status pictures, taken last Friday immediately after waking up.By definition, eating maintenance calories means eating the calories at which you will neither lose or gain weight. You said you are currently losing weight, so we are suggesting you eat a bit more so that you stop losing weight.
Regardless, considering the stats you provided, you either have an unrealistic idea of a what a real person's stomach is supposed to look like, or you have body dysmorphia and aren't seeing what's really there, or you are quite under-muscled. Continuing to lose weight is not going to make you look better at this point, and eating at a deficit is hampering your ability to build muscle. But if you aren't willing to eat more, and you aren't willing to consider that you might have better success with a different lifting program, I don't have any other ideas for you. Best of luck!
Perhaps my perception is skewed, but it looks to me like my stomach isn't flat. It protrudes off of my ab wall, and when I flex my abs, I can poke a good 0.5-1 inches of squishy stuff before I feel the muscle. I admit that I am under-muscled (as I previously stated), but I have been regularly lifting weights and had been making progressive increases every few weeks until around the first of November. Doesn't that indicate that I was building for a time even in a deficit? If so, why has that stopped?
I'm not opposed to trying a different routine. I just want to know if anyone has any ideas about why mine has stopped working or even why I should switch given that it's promoted by a nationwide gym chain as a good place to start and not something I pulled from thin air.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be an *kitten*. I'm just very frustrated and looking for advice.
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I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be an *kitten*. I'm just very frustrated and looking for advice.
I totally get being frustrated when you're working hard and not getting where you want to
I will let others with more experience at guessing bf% and physique give more specific guidance. I do still think that continuing to eat in a deficit and lose weight is not going to get you the results you're looking for though.4 -
Looking at the photos, I agree that you should eat at maintanence and follow a progressive weight lifting program. In the “gaining” weight section of this board, there’s a thread about finding the best lifting program. It is active and @psuLemon is extremely helpful.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
There is the thread.
Looking at the posters lifting routine, it seems a bit underwhelming and a bit high on the reps. I think a more structured routine, like PHUL, would provide a better foundation to develop muscle.
Overall, there is a little belly fat, but a recomp could address that issue. I would agree that being under developed is the biggest issue.5 -
OP don’t lose any more weight. I understand if you don’t want to bulk but losing more will not get you where you want to be. You are under muscled. You need to get really serious about your training. And at least maintain your weight if you are not wanting to bulk. Do some research on the different programmes available for hypertrophy. Reliable sources are barbell medicine, 3 d muscle journey, stronger by science, Renaissance periodisation. Look at all the info on the weight gain and body building part of these forums.
As others have said yr current programme is sub optimal. Spend some time doing some research and self education if you are even half serious about improving your physique.4 -
OP I should add that the body building forum in this site is active though there aren’t as many regular posters there are several very experienced powerlifters and bodybuilders. If you post specific questions in a new thread people will be willing to help. It does sound like you possibly have some psychological difficulty with the concept of gaining weight and that is tough but if you want to make progress in terms of getting a more muscular physique then maintenance ( with a proper lifting programme) and possibly a bulk is your way forward. You can’t lose weight forever and you have very very little fat left on your abs. If you had development in your abs it would IMO be showing now. If you lose more weight you will just look emanciated.4
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Thanks for the link! I'll check out the PHUL routine and rummage around in that forum for more info.Looking at the photos, I agree that you should eat at maintanence and follow a progressive weight lifting program. In the “gaining” weight section of this board, there’s a thread about finding the best lifting program. It is active and @psuLemon is extremely helpful.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
There is the thread.
Looking at the posters lifting routine, it seems a bit underwhelming and a bit high on the reps. I think a more structured routine, like PHUL, would provide a better foundation to develop muscle.
Overall, there is a little belly fat, but a recomp could address that issue. I would agree that being under developed is the biggest issue.
You're correct about the psychological difficulty. If I had to choose, I'd take Arthur Fleck's physique over my current one any day. I believe it's called Former Fat Boy syndrome in these parts. However, I'd appreciate not having my level of dedication judged solely by my routine. You have no idea how much willpower it takes for me to even go to the gym.cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »OP don’t lose any more weight. I understand if you don’t want to bulk but losing more will not get you where you want to be. You are under muscled. You need to get really serious about your training. And at least maintain your weight if you are not wanting to bulk. Do some research on the different programmes available for hypertrophy. Reliable sources are barbell medicine, 3 d muscle journey, stronger by science, Renaissance periodisation. Look at all the info on the weight gain and body building part of these forums.
As others have said yr current programme is sub optimal. Spend some time doing some research and self education if you are even half serious about improving your physique.
I should add that the body building forum in this site is active though there aren’t as many regular posters there are several very experienced powerlifters and bodybuilders. If you post specific questions in a new thread people will be willing to help. It does sound like you possibly have some psychological difficulty with the concept of gaining weight and that is tough but if you want to make progress in terms of getting a more muscular physique then maintenance ( with a proper lifting programme) and possibly a bulk is your way forward. You can’t lose weight forever and you have very very little fat left on your abs. If you had development in your abs it would IMO be showing now. If you lose more weight you will just look emanciated.0 -
Thanks for the link! I'll check out the PHUL routine and rummage around in that forum for more info.Looking at the photos, I agree that you should eat at maintanence and follow a progressive weight lifting program. In the “gaining” weight section of this board, there’s a thread about finding the best lifting program. It is active and @psuLemon is extremely helpful.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
There is the thread.
Looking at the posters lifting routine, it seems a bit underwhelming and a bit high on the reps. I think a more structured routine, like PHUL, would provide a better foundation to develop muscle.
Overall, there is a little belly fat, but a recomp could address that issue. I would agree that being under developed is the biggest issue.
You're correct about the psychological difficulty. If I had to choose, I'd take Arthur Fleck's physique over my current one any day. I believe it's called Former Fat Boy syndrome in these parts. However, I'd appreciate not having my level of dedication judged solely by my routine. You have no idea how much willpower it takes for me to even go to the gym.cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »OP don’t lose any more weight. I understand if you don’t want to bulk but losing more will not get you where you want to be. You are under muscled. You need to get really serious about your training. And at least maintain your weight if you are not wanting to bulk. Do some research on the different programmes available for hypertrophy. Reliable sources are barbell medicine, 3 d muscle journey, stronger by science, Renaissance periodisation. Look at all the info on the weight gain and body building part of these forums.
As others have said yr current programme is sub optimal. Spend some time doing some research and self education if you are even half serious about improving your physique.
I should add that the body building forum in this site is active though there aren’t as many regular posters there are several very experienced powerlifters and bodybuilders. If you post specific questions in a new thread people will be willing to help. It does sound like you possibly have some psychological difficulty with the concept of gaining weight and that is tough but if you want to make progress in terms of getting a more muscular physique then maintenance ( with a proper lifting programme) and possibly a bulk is your way forward. You can’t lose weight forever and you have very very little fat left on your abs. If you had development in your abs it would IMO be showing now. If you lose more weight you will just look emanciated.
I’m sorry that came across as me doubting your seriousness.
It does take consistently showing up at the gym 3 to 6 times a week and following an effective progressive overload programme, for most people it’s years and years of work to get a great physique. So you need to work out a way of making training a pleasure rather than a struggle. You need to enjoy the journey of training imo.4 -
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In all sincerity, if you have any tips for making exercise a pleasure, I'm open to them. Weight training is the least abhorrent method for me, but it's still far from enjoyable. I've been consistently going to the gym 3-4 times per week for over a year now because I hate how I look more than I hate working out. I was making regular progressive overload increases with my program until a few months ago, but I can't regularly hit my set/rep targets anymore. Losing this feeling of progress without seeing a corresponding nice/flat stomach in the mirror has made working out even less of a pleasure, so I posted my questions to see if I was missing something. I appreciate the responses, and since my current approach isn't working anymore, I'm going to give the PHUL program a shot at maintenance/recomp intake. Hopefully, I'll have a success story to share later.cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »I’m sorry that came across as me doubting your seriousness.
It does take consistently showing up at the gym 3 to 6 times a week and following an effective progressive overload programme, for most people it’s years and years of work to get a great physique. So you need to work out a way of making training a pleasure rather than a struggle. You need to enjoy the journey of training imo.
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In all sincerity, if you have any tips for making exercise a pleasure, I'm open to them. Weight training is the least abhorrent method for me, but it's still far from enjoyable. I've been consistently going to the gym 3-4 times per week for over a year now because I hate how I look more than I hate working out. I was making regular progressive overload increases with my program until a few months ago, but I can't regularly hit my set/rep targets anymore. Losing this feeling of progress without seeing a corresponding nice/flat stomach in the mirror has made working out even less of a pleasure, so I posted my questions to see if I was missing something. I appreciate the responses, and since my current approach isn't working anymore, I'm going to give the PHUL program a shot at maintenance/recomp intake. Hopefully, I'll have a success story to share later.cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »I’m sorry that came across as me doubting your seriousness.
It does take consistently showing up at the gym 3 to 6 times a week and following an effective progressive overload programme, for most people it’s years and years of work to get a great physique. So you need to work out a way of making training a pleasure rather than a struggle. You need to enjoy the journey of training imo.
I did PHUL for 3 months and enjoyed it. I found the sessions took over an hour which was a bit long for me so I chanted programme I don’t know what to suggest, other than if you don’t enjoy lifting weights then maybe find another way of training they can give you some muscle. Maybe a bodyweight gymnastics programme?. Cross fit if you like group training? I don’t really know what else to suggest. When I started out I had a training partner and that helped as I had someone to talk to between sets.0 -
In all sincerity, if you have any tips for making exercise a pleasure, I'm open to them. Weight training is the least abhorrent method for me, but it's still far from enjoyable. I've been consistently going to the gym 3-4 times per week for over a year now because I hate how I look more than I hate working out. I was making regular progressive overload increases with my program until a few months ago, but I can't regularly hit my set/rep targets anymore. Losing this feeling of progress without seeing a corresponding nice/flat stomach in the mirror has made working out even less of a pleasure, so I posted my questions to see if I was missing something. I appreciate the responses, and since my current approach isn't working anymore, I'm going to give the PHUL program a shot at maintenance/recomp intake. Hopefully, I'll have a success story to share later.cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »I’m sorry that came across as me doubting your seriousness.
It does take consistently showing up at the gym 3 to 6 times a week and following an effective progressive overload programme, for most people it’s years and years of work to get a great physique. So you need to work out a way of making training a pleasure rather than a struggle. You need to enjoy the journey of training imo.
Just keep at it and try to be as patient as you can - doubly so if you are going to approach this as a recomp. It's a really slow process and plateaus are all part of it. Linear progression only happens with very new lifters or people returning after a long hiatus. I've heard an idea before that makes a lot of sense - that real progress and adding lean mass really starts after your first hard plateau. What they mean by this is that initially most of the progress new lifters are seeing is basically your body learning how to properly use what it already has -- central nervous system adaptations. Once those are tapped your body has no choice but to add more mass. It's a very simplified explanation and not entirely accurate but there is enough truth to it that hitting a plateau should just give you extra motivation to push harder and break through. Keep in mind, this is a process that can take years. Just don't give up and eventually if your programming, effort, and diet is adequate you will see results.1 -
My OH is my training partner, but she hates it as much as I do, so we have a hard time motivating each other. Regular progress with overloading is usually enough to make it tolerable for me, so I'm hoping this new approach will provide some.cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »I did PHUL for 3 months and enjoyed it. I found the sessions took over an hour which was a bit long for me so I chanted programme I don’t know what to suggest, other than if you don’t enjoy lifting weights then maybe find another way of training they can give you some muscle. Maybe a bodyweight gymnastics programme?. Cross fit if you like group training? I don’t really know what else to suggest. When I started out I had a training partner and that helped as I had someone to talk to between sets.
Adding LBM wasn't a goal of mine when I started out; my entire fixation has been on getting rid of my belly. Once I accomplished that, I could focus on building muscle. Genetics and biochemistry (I'm on an antidepressant that can increase alpha-2 agonist levels) are forcing me to reconsider that approach. I just hope I don't confuse "no progress" with "slow progress" and fail to make needed adjustments to programming, effort, and/or diet. The ambiguity and complexity of this whole process are difficult to accept at times.jseams1234 wrote: »Just keep at it and try to be as patient as you can - doubly so if you are going to approach this as a recomp. It's a really slow process and plateaus are all part of it. Linear progression only happens with very new lifters or people returning after a long hiatus. I've heard an idea before that makes a lot of sense - that real progress and adding lean mass really starts after your first hard plateau. What they mean by this is that initially most of the progress new lifters are seeing is basically your body learning how to properly use what it already has -- central nervous system adaptations. Once those are tapped your body has no choice but to add more mass. It's a very simplified explanation and not entirely accurate but there is enough truth to it that hitting a plateau should just give you extra motivation to push harder and break through. Keep in mind, this is a process that can take years. Just don't give up and eventually if your programming, effort, and diet is adequate you will see results.0 -
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In the 114 pages of this, I’m sure it’s been discussed but let’s chat food selection aka quality. Whole Foods vs processed. Does it make a difference?? Any science?2
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In the 114 pages of this, I’m sure it’s been discussed but let’s chat food selection aka quality. Whole Foods vs processed. Does it make a difference?? Any science?
😬
This thread has been a really useful, nice thing . . . and the "effects of processed foods" topic often heads quickly toward "why we can't have nice things" behavior, historically.
There's been a lot of debate about it over in the debate forum, with plenty of science, as is usual for that area. I think the most recent related thread was this one, and there have been plenty of others:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10744444/processed-foods-cause-more-weight-gain/p1
ETA: Or this one . . .
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10352914/is-the-amount-of-easy-access-processed-food-harming-dieters-health/p1
Maybe check out some of the threads there? 5 -
So you want abs...
There isan exercise called a Stability Ball dumbbell Pullover. I honestly do not understand why more people don't do it. The first two video examples are trainers. I wrote this post months ago for someone who did not want to do crunches and planks anymore because they were causing severe back pain. Which they do...
https://youtu.be/NmOXqeXnbPM
https://youtu.be/6os8lrYrMto
This is the best exercise I've found for lats and core. Specifically obliques and lower abdominal abs. The Hypertrophy is crazy good. Go slow and concentrate on the lats, rib cage pulled in, and your abs tight. Be sure to keep your abs and ribs sucked in for the whole motion, breathing out on the way up. Lower the dumbbell as close to the floor as you can and raise it to over your belly button or as close as you can. Unlike the videos, use the full range of motion. Use a weight that challenges your shoulders but does not injure you nor causes you to drop it. Your better to start light and work up in weight. Do 20 - 30 reps. 2 - 4 sets. Because the motion is natural, unlike sit-ups you can rep out many sets of these.
Below is Athlean-X Jeff Cavaliere doing almost the same exercise. Fast forward to 4:30 in the video
https://youtu.be/yPrsuV3E-Dc?t=270
Variations of Leg positions:
To hit different parts of your abs try different leg positions.
1. Table top: Legs together, knees at 90 degrees, feet flat or on your heels toes up.
2. Leg V: Plank straight, legs spread apart. Tuck in your glutes.
3. Leg Plank: Legs together as close as you can in a plank, board flat position.
4.Wrap the ball (Like Jeff did): Hips dropped, Knees bent, Wrap your back around the ball to maximize contact and really stretch your abs.
I do 50 of these every second day.3 -
In the 114 pages of this, I’m sure it’s been discussed but let’s chat food selection aka quality. Whole Foods vs processed. Does it make a difference?? Any science?
😬
This thread has been a really useful, nice thing . . . and the "effects of processed foods" topic often heads quickly toward "why we can't have nice things" behavior, historically.
There's been a lot of debate about it over in the debate forum, with plenty of science, as is usual for that area. I think the most recent related thread was this one, and there have been plenty of others:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10744444/processed-foods-cause-more-weight-gain/p1
ETA: Or this one . . .
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10352914/is-the-amount-of-easy-access-processed-food-harming-dieters-health/p1
Maybe check out some of the threads there?
I knew I could count on you haha. Thanks! I think I intuitively thought processed food=processed stuff in my body. WHO KNOWS WHAT THAT DOES??? And then processed food = processed food cravings.2 -
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Well, not so much research, as links to threads where debating "processed foods vs. whole foods" would be on topic, and where there's already a lot of science-link slinging on the subject . . . unlike in this-here thread, where it's just a side issue/digression . . . and one that often results in thread-killing rancor, besides. Wouldn't want that happen to a very nice thread like this one, would we? 😉
So, how about we all enjoy the "processed vs. whole foods" debate in one of these, over in the *debate* forum?
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10744444/processed-foods-cause-more-weight-gain/p1
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10352914/is-the-amount-of-easy-access-processed-food-harming-dieters-health/p1
Or heck, start another thread on the subject, over in "Debate", where it belongs.
Current thread: "How to Get a Nice Stomach" . . . and a fine thread it is, too, IMO.7 -
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In the 114 pages of this, I’m sure it’s been discussed but let’s chat food selection aka quality. Whole Foods vs processed. Does it make a difference?? Any science?
I guess I missed this earlier conversation and this is only my personal experience, so not suitable for debate forum, but processed food has no affect on how I look historically. I used this example on my personal feed to show that body composition can have zero correlation with how healthy you or your diet is. On the left I was eating balanced, mostly whole food (some processed) and exercising every day. On the right, no exercise for weeks, barely eating due to huge levels of stress and what I was eating was either fruit or processed carbs/fat/sugar. I doubt a bit of protein even passed my lips. So what you see is the result of a good muscle base showing through due to weight loss (however unhealthily it was achieved)
**Kids do NOT try this at home**
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