Nobel Prize Winner picks Diet of the Future
Replies
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You're entirely missing my point. Even if we don't eat the animals, we need them to grow the food crops, or the ground has to be fertilized and nutrients replaced with synthetic chemicals. It can't be done naturally. If we didn't have the farm animals, there wouldn't be natural fertilization in sufficient quantities to grow enough crops to feed everyone.
[/quote]
not so sure about this
Compost, alfalfa meal, kelp are all good vegan sources.
Besides it's not that difficult to feed and care for chickens in return for their manure. If you really feel you need the manure there is also humanure. Can't get more natural than that.0 -
Grizzly Bears are in the class carnivora. The link attached is to a US Fish And Game publication:
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/grizz_foods.pdf
Now how about my $1,000
Really? Then why are they in the Order Carnivora?
http://www.nhptv.org/natureworks/grizzly.htm
First line from your link:The grizzly bear, like its cousin the black bear, is omnivorous, meaning it will eat plants, as well as insects and other animals.
Did you even read it?
Yup. The Genius I posted this for said that carnivores eat ONLY meat. Did you read it? Do you think it said that?
It didn't say a damn thing about it, because grizzly's aren't carnivores.
Really! Why don't you stick your head in one's mouth then?
But they'd still eat you because they are OMNIVORES.
Really? Then why are they in the order Carnivora?
http://www.nhptv.org/natureworks/grizzly.htm
You obviously missed my post in response before to this. I'll copy and paste for you again.Ummm no. From the reading in the article in your post: "The grizzly bear, like its cousin the black bear, is omnivorous, meaning it will eat plants, as well as insects and other animals"
They are in the order of Carnivora...order meaning the classification of the species based on certain shared physical characteristics. Carnivore is the description on the diet of an animal/species.
:flowerforyou:
And where does the word "carnivore" come from?
Let me ask again: What is the precise definition of a Herbivore, an Omnivore, and a Carnivore? Your definition should make it clear that the Grizzly is not a carnivore as you claim, but you should also give some examples of animals that are carnivores, and explain why they are different from say the Grizzly.
Good luck.
Who ever claimed a grizzly was a carnivore?
A jellyfish is a carnivore. It eats meat. A beat is an omnivore. it eats meat and plants. A cow is an herbivore. It eats plants.
Is that defined enough for you or...?
Also, side noteMembers of the mammalian order Carnivora are the descendants of a successful late Paleocene radiation of mammals whose primitive food habits were carnivorous. The name "Carnivora" is sometimes taken to mean that members of this group are all carnivorous or that all carnivorous mammals are members of this group. This is not so. Members of Carnivora have diverse food habits, although many are primarily carnivorous, and carnivory is widely distributed in mammals, being found in many other orders including bats, marsupial mammals, primates, and dolphins and whales.
Very good so far. Consistant. Now do it for Herbivores and Omnivores.
Ummm...but herbivores and omnivores isn't an order of taxonomy. So what/how are you trying to make comparisons?
Yes! Give the girl a cigar!
You and others have used the terms herbivore, omnivore and carnivore and have objected to how I have used them, specifically that I referred to one of the most famous cardiologists in the United States who said that humans were herbivores/ He in fact gives a definition that is meaningful and useful. If you had watched the video, you would know what that was, but since you don't want to watch the video, I will tell you: Only herbivores can get atherosclerosis. Carnivores cannot. Most animals are capable of eating whatever is in the environment. I daresay a polar bear would very likely eat a tomato, if he could find one. There is an evolutionary advantage in being able to get nurishment from whatever food is in your environment, animal or vegetable. Therefore, every animal can eat both plants and animals. Even cats which are obligate carnivores can eat plant based food, but that cannot eat only plant based food. Therefore, the term omnivore is virtually meaningless, since all animals are in fact omnivores. The only real distinction comes between herbivores and carnivores. And the difference between them is that only herbivores can get atherosclerosis. Watch the video. It is well worth the time.
But you are trying to use a cardiologist to combat with archeology. Stating that we started out as herbivores, when that is false. There is archaeological evidence to prove that our species has been eating meat since 17,000 BC.0 -
OP is 70 years old, I am sure the nice lady at the Nursing Home didn't have time to show him everything about the computer. Oh, and recreation time is almost up.No problem. I knew you couldn't do it It was only a matter of when you would admit that you didn't know what you were talking about.
This from the guy who clearly states on his profile that he doesn't know how to edit his profile. I mean, if we're attacking intellect now...
Yup, I'm 70, I have a black belt in Shaolin Kempo Karate, and I work out 4 times a week. I am vegan and never see a doctor, except for check ups. I have three university degrees. Anything else you would like to know?
lol - this OP keeps delivering the internetz . . .
Three degrees in this case = a lot of wasted money.
There are quite a few cheap "universities" out there "educating" the uneducable. This thread is a great example of why we need to bring back trade schools. Or why one does not believe French models on the Internet. Either or . . .
My undergaduate university was the University of Pennsylvania. How many people on this board do you think could get into Penn?
I know lots of people who went to Penn, actually. One of the weird things about living in Pittsburgh, I guess. Either way I find people who went to CMU are generally more intelligent; Penn just seems to breed unfounded arrogance and delusions of grandeur.
Apparently research at Penn involves watching YouTube.0 -
OP is 70 years old, I am sure the nice lady at the Nursing Home didn't have time to show him everything about the computer. Oh, and recreation time is almost up.No problem. I knew you couldn't do it It was only a matter of when you would admit that you didn't know what you were talking about.
This from the guy who clearly states on his profile that he doesn't know how to edit his profile. I mean, if we're attacking intellect now...
Yup, I'm 70, I have a black belt in Shaolin Kempo Karate, and I work out 4 times a week. I am vegan and never see a doctor, except for check ups. I have three university degrees. Anything else you would like to know?
My great gram is in her 80's and drinks scotch, straight up, before bed every night, eats bacon and eggs cooked in bacon grease every morning, and then swims laps at the Y for an hour every morning. Except Sunday. She does see her doctor fairly often, but it's because 'That young Indian man has a very fine behind!'
That's an actual quote, btw.
Your great gram sounds like the cutest person to ever live. I actually squee'd a little bit while reading that.
She'd probably swear at you for calling her cute, cute is for little girls. She, I have been assured, is/was/will always be 'A stone cold fox.'
*squee*
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No you get a cigar because you have demonstrated that the word "omnivore" doesn't mean anything. And Carnivore was the source for for the word carnivore, although technically as you pointed out, not all members of that order are pure carnivores. However, using Dr Robert's definition, all members of the Carnivora order are indeed carnivores. See how easy and logical it is?Grizzly Bears are in the class carnivora. The link attached is to a US Fish And Game publication:
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/grizz_foods.pdf
Now how about my $1,000
Really? Then why are they in the Order Carnivora?
http://www.nhptv.org/natureworks/grizzly.htm
First line from your link:The grizzly bear, like its cousin the black bear, is omnivorous, meaning it will eat plants, as well as insects and other animals.
Did you even read it?
Yup. The Genius I posted this for said that carnivores eat ONLY meat. Did you read it? Do you think it said that?
It didn't say a damn thing about it, because grizzly's aren't carnivores.
Really! Why don't you stick your head in one's mouth then?
But they'd still eat you because they are OMNIVORES.
Really? Then why are they in the order Carnivora?
http://www.nhptv.org/natureworks/grizzly.htm
You obviously missed my post in response before to this. I'll copy and paste for you again.Ummm no. From the reading in the article in your post: "The grizzly bear, like its cousin the black bear, is omnivorous, meaning it will eat plants, as well as insects and other animals"
They are in the order of Carnivora...order meaning the classification of the species based on certain shared physical characteristics. Carnivore is the description on the diet of an animal/species.
:flowerforyou:
And where does the word "carnivore" come from?
Let me ask again: What is the precise definition of a Herbivore, an Omnivore, and a Carnivore? Your definition should make it clear that the Grizzly is not a carnivore as you claim, but you should also give some examples of animals that are carnivores, and explain why they are different from say the Grizzly.
Good luck.
Who ever claimed a grizzly was a carnivore?
A jellyfish is a carnivore. It eats meat. A beat is an omnivore. it eats meat and plants. A cow is an herbivore. It eats plants.
Is that defined enough for you or...?
Also, side noteMembers of the mammalian order Carnivora are the descendants of a successful late Paleocene radiation of mammals whose primitive food habits were carnivorous. The name "Carnivora" is sometimes taken to mean that members of this group are all carnivorous or that all carnivorous mammals are members of this group. This is not so. Members of Carnivora have diverse food habits, although many are primarily carnivorous, and carnivory is widely distributed in mammals, being found in many other orders including bats, marsupial mammals, primates, and dolphins and whales.
Very good so far. Consistant. Now do it for Herbivores and Omnivores.
Ummm...but herbivores and omnivores isn't an order of taxonomy. So what/how are you trying to make comparisons?
Yes! Give the girl a cigar!
You and others have used the terms herbivore, omnivore and carnivore and have objected to how I have used them, specifically that I referred to one of the most famous cardiologists in the United States who said that humans were herbivores/ He in fact gives a definition that is meaningful and useful. If you had watched the video, you would know what that was, but since you don't want to watch the video, I will tell you: Only herbivores can get atherosclerosis. Carnivores cannot. Most animals are capable of eating whatever is in the environment. I daresay a polar bear would very likely eat a tomato, if he could find one. There is an evolutionary advantage in being able to get nurishment from whatever food is in your environment, animal or vegetable. Therefore, every animal can eat both plants and animals. Even cats which are obligate carnivores can eat plant based food, but that cannot eat only plant based food. Therefore, the term omnivore is virtually meaningless, since all animals are in fact omnivores. The only real distinction comes between herbivores and carnivores. And the difference between them is that only herbivores can get atherosclerosis. Watch the video. It is well worth the time.
I get a cigar because I pointed out you keep using Carnivora wrong (in the sense that you are trying to compare terms of taxonomy with diet)? And that you still are using it wrong if you think this somehow proves that all species in the order of Carnivora (which is based on physical characteristics, not diet) aren't all carnivores - which we've explained several times over already?
Ummm....wow. That's not what I did at all and just because that Dr. Robert "says" all members are Carnivora are carnivores doesn't make it so. This is like people saying FACT even when it isn't.
Sorry. You don't get to give out cigars.0 -
Grizzly Bears are in the class carnivora. The link attached is to a US Fish And Game publication:
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/grizz_foods.pdf
Now how about my $1,000
Really? Then why are they in the Order Carnivora?
http://www.nhptv.org/natureworks/grizzly.htm
First line from your link:The grizzly bear, like its cousin the black bear, is omnivorous, meaning it will eat plants, as well as insects and other animals.
Did you even read it?
Yup. The Genius I posted this for said that carnivores eat ONLY meat. Did you read it? Do you think it said that?
It didn't say a damn thing about it, because grizzly's aren't carnivores.
Really! Why don't you stick your head in one's mouth then?
But they'd still eat you because they are OMNIVORES.
Really? Then why are they in the order Carnivora?
http://www.nhptv.org/natureworks/grizzly.htm
LOL! Educate yourself on Linnean classifications. http://www.linnean.org/Resources/LinneanSociety/Documents/Education/Secondary/Classification Poster.pdf
Here is a nice website outlining the grouping of animals based on their diet: http://www.ehow.com/info_8592664_herbivore-omnivore-carnivore-animals.html0 -
OP is 70 years old, I am sure the nice lady at the Nursing Home didn't have time to show him everything about the computer. Oh, and recreation time is almost up.No problem. I knew you couldn't do it It was only a matter of when you would admit that you didn't know what you were talking about.
This from the guy who clearly states on his profile that he doesn't know how to edit his profile. I mean, if we're attacking intellect now...
Yup, I'm 70, I have a black belt in Shaolin Kempo Karate, and I work out 4 times a week. I am vegan and never see a doctor, except for check ups. I have three university degrees. Anything else you would like to know?
lol - this OP keeps delivering the internetz . . .
Three degrees in this case = a lot of wasted money.
There are quite a few cheap "universities" out there "educating" the uneducable. This thread is a great example of why we need to bring back trade schools. Or why one does not believe French models on the Internet. Either or . . .
My undergaduate university was the University of Pennsylvania. How many people on this board do you think could get into Penn?
Legacy, huh?0 -
OP is 70 years old, I am sure the nice lady at the Nursing Home didn't have time to show him everything about the computer. Oh, and recreation time is almost up.No problem. I knew you couldn't do it It was only a matter of when you would admit that you didn't know what you were talking about.
This from the guy who clearly states on his profile that he doesn't know how to edit his profile. I mean, if we're attacking intellect now...
Yup, I'm 70, I have a black belt in Shaolin Kempo Karate, and I work out 4 times a week. I am vegan and never see a doctor, except for check ups. I have three university degrees. Anything else you would like to know?
lol - this OP keeps delivering the internetz . . .
Three degrees in this case = a lot of wasted money.
There are quite a few cheap "universities" out there "educating" the uneducable. This thread is a great example of why we need to bring back trade schools. Or why one does not believe French models on the Internet. Either or . . .
My undergaduate university was the University of Pennsylvania. How many people on this board do you think could get into Penn?
I know lots of people who went to Penn, actually. One of the weird things about living in Pittsburgh, I guess. Either way I find people who went to CMU are generally more intelligent; Penn just seems to breed unfounded arrogance and delusions of grandeur.
Apparently research at Penn involves watching YouTube.
I believe it.0 -
OP is 70 years old, I am sure the nice lady at the Nursing Home didn't have time to show him everything about the computer. Oh, and recreation time is almost up.No problem. I knew you couldn't do it It was only a matter of when you would admit that you didn't know what you were talking about.
This from the guy who clearly states on his profile that he doesn't know how to edit his profile. I mean, if we're attacking intellect now...
Yup, I'm 70, I have a black belt in Shaolin Kempo Karate, and I work out 4 times a week. I am vegan and never see a doctor, except for check ups. I have three university degrees. Anything else you would like to know?
lol - this OP keeps delivering the internetz . . .
Three degrees in this case = a lot of wasted money.
There are quite a few cheap "universities" out there "educating" the uneducable. This thread is a great example of why we need to bring back trade schools. Or why one does not believe French models on the Internet. Either or . . .
My undergaduate university was the University of Pennsylvania. How many people on this board do you think could get into Penn?
Somehow I highly doubt someone of your limited intelligence went to Penn. I have lectured there. You keep making the same basic logical mistake and are clearly not understanding it.
Oh, I went to Penn alright. I am pretty sure you did not. What exactly did you lecture on at Penn? And when?0 -
No you get a cigar because you have demonstrated that the word "omnivore" doesn't mean anything. And Carnivore was the source for for the word carnivore, although technically as you pointed out, not all members of that order are pure carnivores. However, using Dr Robert's definition, all members of the Carnivora order are indeed carnivores. See how easy and logical it is?
I think I'll stick to the scientific definition - not one man's opinion. An opinion that is considered wrong by the scientific community.
See how easy and logical that is?
ps the italicised part - I think you spelt a word wrong there mr penn. :laugh:0 -
OP is 70 years old, I am sure the nice lady at the Nursing Home didn't have time to show him everything about the computer. Oh, and recreation time is almost up.No problem. I knew you couldn't do it It was only a matter of when you would admit that you didn't know what you were talking about.
This from the guy who clearly states on his profile that he doesn't know how to edit his profile. I mean, if we're attacking intellect now...
Yup, I'm 70, I have a black belt in Shaolin Kempo Karate, and I work out 4 times a week. I am vegan and never see a doctor, except for check ups. I have three university degrees. Anything else you would like to know?
lol - this OP keeps delivering the internetz . . .
Three degrees in this case = a lot of wasted money.
There are quite a few cheap "universities" out there "educating" the uneducable. This thread is a great example of why we need to bring back trade schools. Or why one does not believe French models on the Internet. Either or . . .
My undergaduate university was the University of Pennsylvania. How many people on this board do you think could get into Penn?
Somehow I highly doubt someone of your limited intelligence went to Penn. I have lectured there. You keep making the same basic logical mistake and are clearly not understanding it.
Oh, I went to Penn alright. I am pretty sure you did not. What exactly did you lecture on at Penn? And when?
Are you really 70? Because if you are, then you'll note the age differences between you and Sun. So why would you know if he really lectured there or not? Do you know every single lecturer since you attended? That's just..a bit weird.0 -
This is incredibly absurd. Arguing that you're smarter based on what university you went to? Seriously?
Veganism for health purposes is dumb. The only reasonable reasons for veganism are ethical.0 -
No you get a cigar because you have demonstrated that the word "omnivore" doesn't mean anything. And Carnivore was the source for for the word carnivore, although technically as you pointed out, not all members of that order are pure carnivores. However, using Dr Robert's definition, all members of the Carnivora order are indeed carnivores. See how easy and logical it is?
I think I'll stick to the scientific definition - not one man's opinion. An opinion that is considered wrong by the scientific community.
See how easy and logical that is?
ps the italicised part - I think you spelt a word wrong there mr penn. :laugh:
I wish people would let me make up definitions to things to suit my purposes.0 -
So, still nothing on the digestive tracts which really is evidence of what an animal eats and their classification as an herbivore or omnivore?0
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Ummm....wow. That's not what I did at all and just because that Dr. Robert "says" all members are Carnivora are carnivores doesn't make it so. This is like people saying FACT even when it isn't.
Sorry. You don't get to give out cigars.
Just to be precise, Dr Roberts did not claim members of carnivora were carnivores. He gave a precise definition for what a herbivore is, however, and if you have a better one, I would very much like to hear it. Omnivore is a meaningless term. It doesn't mean anything, and no one can define it. (A creature that can eat both plants and animals? Meaningless definiton. All creatures can do that..)0 -
No you get a cigar because you have demonstrated that the word "omnivore" doesn't mean anything. And Carnivore was the source for for the word carnivore, although technically as you pointed out, not all members of that order are pure carnivores. However, using Dr Robert's definition, all members of the Carnivora order are indeed carnivores. See how easy and logical it is?
I think I'll stick to the scientific definition - not one man's opinion. An opinion that is considered wrong by the scientific community.
See how easy and logical that is?
ps the italicised part - I think you spelt a word wrong there mr penn. :laugh:
I wish people would let me make up definitions to things to suit my purposes.
Oh yes - my life would be a damn sight easier. :grumble:0 -
You gotta love vegan propaganda - if we keep saying it it will magically become true. :laugh:0
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No you get a cigar because you have demonstrated that the word "omnivore" doesn't mean anything. And Carnivore was the source for for the word carnivore, although technically as you pointed out, not all members of that order are pure carnivores. However, using Dr Robert's definition, all members of the Carnivora order are indeed carnivores. See how easy and logical it is?
I think I'll stick to the scientific definition - not one man's opinion. An opinion that is considered wrong by the scientific community.
See how easy and logical that is?
ps the italicised part - I think you spelt a word wrong there mr penn. :laugh:
I wish people would let me make up definitions to things to suit my purposes.
Oh yes - my life would be a damn sight easier. :grumble:
I can see it now
Boss: Hey, what are you doing?
Me: Candy Crush bro.
Boss: You're supposed to be working!
Me: According to the Achrya's definition Candy Crush Saga is work. Furthermore you're really hindering my process right now.
Boss: Oh. I see. Well if that's how work is now defined how can I argue? *walks away*0 -
Ummm....wow. That's not what I did at all and just because that Dr. Robert "says" all members are Carnivora are carnivores doesn't make it so. This is like people saying FACT even when it isn't.
Sorry. You don't get to give out cigars.
Just to be precise, Dr Roberts did not claim members of carnivora were carnivores. He gave a precise definition for what a herbivore is, however, and if you have a better one, I would very much like to hear it. Omnivore is a meaningless term. It doesn't mean anything, and no one can define it. (A creature that can eat both plants and animals? Meaningless definiton. All creatures can do that..)
It's not a matter of "can". People and even herbivores could turn cannibalistic if it means survival. It's a matter of what the diet is solely based of. I think you really need to do more research and understand the terms you are throwing around.0 -
Holy lack of logic Batman. Carnivora != carnivore.
Way to make yourself look as smart as a dry stick.0 -
Are you really 70? Because if you are, then you'll note the age differences between you and Sun. So why would you know if he really lectured there or not? Do you know every single lecturer since you attended? That's just..a bit weird.
How the hell would I know how old he is. I don't look at anyones bio here. I really don't care.
But he claims he lectured at may Alma Mater. That was a gratuitous comment so I would like to know what he lectured in.0 -
Are you really 70? Because if you are, then you'll note the age differences between you and Sun. So why would you know if he really lectured there or not? Do you know every single lecturer since you attended? That's just..a bit weird.
How the hell would I know how old he is. I don't look at anyones bio here. I really don't care.
But he claims he lectured at may Alma Mater. That was a gratuitous comment so I would like to know what he lectured in.
I'd like to know what your degrees are in.
and the comment was not gratuitous - you said you went to Penn and doubt many on these boards could have gone there - he was just proving you wrong.
Nothing gratuitous about that.
So not English then.0 -
Are you really 70? Because if you are, then you'll note the age differences between you and Sun. So why would you know if he really lectured there or not? Do you know every single lecturer since you attended? That's just..a bit weird.
How the hell would I know how old he is. I don't look at anyones bio here. I really don't care.
But he claims he lectured at may Alma Mater. That was a gratuitous comment so I would like to know what he lectured in.
I'd like to know what your degrees are in.
*nod nod*0 -
Ok, I've been slowly watching this thread's **** show and have this to say. I lose respect immediately for anyone who says "I went to x school. I bet you couldn't even get in there" as proof of intelligence. People can get into schools for a lot of reasons, it doesn't mean they learned anything. Meanwhile, someone can go to crappy nowhereville school with no prestige and get a better education than at a prestigious school.0
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Ok, I've been slowly watching this thread's **** show and have this to say. I lose respect immediately for anyone who says "I went to x school. I bet you couldn't even get in there" as proof of intelligence. People can get into schools for a lot of reasons, it doesn't mean they learned anything. Meanwhile, someone can go to crappy nowhereville school with no prestige and get a better education than at a prestigious school.
George W Bush graduated from Yale. Just saying >.>.0 -
It's not a matter of "can". People and even herbivores could turn cannibalistic if it means survival. It's a matter of what the diet is solely based of. I think you really need to do more research and understand the terms you are throwing around.
I am sorry. You've been so helpful here, but I think it is you who needs to understand the terms. You just said that herbivores could be cannibalistic, but that the definition is what their diet is based solely on. You don't see the contradiction? Virtually all animals are omnivores, meaning they can eat both plant and animals. Dr Roberts gave a precise definition of a herbivore. It is a useful scientific definition. Saying that a herbivore is a creature that eats plants except when it doesn't is a useless definition. Sorry.0 -
So not English then.
Oh! Let's try to guess through elimination!
Nothing requiring lots of research...0 -
[/quote]
So what are these incisor teeth that humans have for? Gnashing broccoli?
[/quote]
Oh don't worry they will disappear once we evolve to the next level.
Herbivore that is.
But the tonsils and appendix may go first.0 -
It's not a matter of "can". People and even herbivores could turn cannibalistic if it means survival. It's a matter of what the diet is solely based of. I think you really need to do more research and understand the terms you are throwing around.
I am sorry. You've been so helpful here, but I think it is you who needs to understand the terms. You just said that herbivores could be cannibalistic, but that the definition is what their diet is based solely on. You don't see the contradiction? Virtually all animals are omnivores, meaning they can eat both plant and animals. Dr Roberts gave a precise definition of a herbivore. It is a useful scientific definition. Saying that a herbivore is a creature that eats plants except when it doesn't is a useless definition. Sorry.
Does Dr. Robert mention anything about kool aid by chance?0 -
Even though not a fear mongering thread, I still think this quote deserves to be here.
"Unfortunately, research-based refutation of fear mongering tends to be ineffective as those who are most prone to succumbing to such in the first place are also the least likely to apply critical thinking." - Wonderpug from bb.com via Sidesteel0
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