Nobel Prize Winner picks Diet of the Future

eric_sg61

It's amazing two separate people with the same argument both fail at the same aspect of quoting other posters.

My Spidey sense was tingling with the thought of an alt profile

entropy90

Somebody should tell the Deers around me that this is the year of the vegan. Maybe then they'll get close enough for me to take a shot.

Whambam087

No one could be a healthy vegan without the convenience of modern technology unless maybe you live at the equator where plant life is abundant year round

That can't be true.

yeah...grocery stores that offer veggies and fruit year round even in winter year among other things...and even then it's still work to make sure you're eating a wide variety of plants to get all the nutrients you need.

Keep forgetting all carnivores hunt.

But that's beyond the point. In certain climates and especially in the dead of winter you would have to hunt to survive or you would die. Thats your only option. Your plant choices are pretty thin, no avocados, nuts...and certainly not enough to survive on without serious malnutrition.

Ang108

Because everyone is not sick enough on grain/sugar based diets…… Gotta up the ante, must have maximum rates of malnutrition and disease because that's what's best for corporate profits.

Please don't throw around big words like malnutrition when you don't know what they mean. Visit a famine or war striken country and come back and tell me how people who haven't educated themselves about when to put down the fork are malnourished.

About 40% of the US population is malnourished to various degrees. Malnourishment happens in many rich countries, where people are well fed, often over fed , but malnourished, because their diet does not provide the necessary nutrients. This mean that people are not hungry or starving, but still under nourished.
It is true that people in refugee camps, in war zones and areas of natural disasters suffer from the kind of malnourishment that comes with famine, which means that people often eat 800 calories or much less a day over long periods of time ( 4 month or more)....many of them for years and then neither get the energy that is provided even from simple carbs and of course through the lack of nutrients. Many of those people die.

Iron_Feline

Veganism is only possible due to modern agriculture, therefore how is it the way we are supposed to eat?

So carnivores would survive without agriculture? That's funny.

of course they would - you don't need modern agriculture to hunt :noway:

and there is that small matter of B12.

Right. I forgot the average carnivore Hunts. That's also funny.
Not sure and not gonna google it but I think we solved the whole B12 thing in the 90's or 80's?

Yes, through the use of modern chemical engineering.

Spirulina?

Spirulina is not considered to be a reliable source of Vitamin B12. Spirulina supplements contain predominantly pseudovitamin B12, which is biologically inactive in humans.[11] Companies which grow and market spirulina have claimed it to be a significant source of B12 on the basis of alternative, unpublished assays, although their claims are not accepted by independent scientific organizations. The American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada in their position paper on vegetarian diets state that spirulina cannot be counted on as a reliable source of active vitamin B12.[12] The medical literature similarly advises that spirulina is unsuitable as a source of B12.[11][13]

Try again :laugh:

Alfalfa, bladder wrack, hops!

Yippy. Beer with that bacon cheese burger!

1) please learn how to quote and answer correctly

2) Do you even understand the difference between inactive and active B12 and edible sources of B12 that you can consume in an amount that allows you to get the appropriate amount of B12. - I'm going to say no. :noway:

kimosabe1

um, NO!!!!:sad:

:explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode:

SezxyStef

Well after reading through the posts and seeing the back and forth...

Seeing Joy Joy hand Rex his *kitten* on a plate was priceless

But I went to google...found a few interesting reads...

Dr. William Roberts isn’t a major vegan leader or anything, but he always gets quoted whenever a vegan insists that humans are natural herbivores. Here’s his most popular quote about that (quoted on Goveg.com):

<snip>

But most vegans aren’t reading Baylor University Medical Center Proceedings, and they assume the doctor who tells them they are not properly designed for animal product consumption is just as strict about this as they are. Yet Dr. William Roberts regularly enjoys a nice fatty tuna steak while his authoritative words make some people too terrified to do the same.

And this from an interview with the Doctor...he doesn't say we are herbivores he says we have similar characteristics.

Although most of us conduct our lives as omnivores, in that we eat flesh as well as vegetables and fruits, human beings have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores . The appendages of carnivores are claws; those of herbivores are hands or hooves. The teeth of carnivores are sharp; those of herbivores are mainly flat (for grinding). The intestinal tract of carnivores is short (3 times body length); that of herbivores, long (12 times body length). Body cooling of carnivores is done by panting; herbivores, by sweating. Carnivores drink fluids by lapping; herbivores, by sipping. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, whereas herbivores obtain it from their diet. Thus, humans have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores." - William C. Roberts, M.D.,, Twenty questions on atherosclerosis

As well I didn't quote it but the poster who said herbivores would eat meat to survive...ah hello no they wouldn't they starve...

Hard winter=hard on deer population/lots of death due to starvation
Easy winter=good on deer population/lots of hunting of deer so we omnivores can eat meat.

Iron_Feline

For anyone truly interested in a vegan diet this is a useful page regarding B12 - it has references and everything.

http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/plant

Keep_The_Laughter

This is the next level in stubborn/trollish behavior. Herbivores get essential amino acids from eating plants in combination with symbiotic bacteria living in their digestive systems. Omnivores gain essential amino acids by eating both plant and animal matter.

Humans are the only species that can pose an exception to these basic biological functions. Humans have the means to manipulate the food supply and to ensure that specific combinations of nutrients are available year around to those who can afford it. Having the ability to choose a fully herbivorous diet and be health does not change human biology.

Humans have thrived on a wide variety of diets, from high carbohydrate/vegetarian to high fat/high protein. If it were not the case entire populations would have died out. Is anyone really going to argue that 200 years ago Icelanders would have thrived on a vegan diet? The human diet was historically about availability; it is increasingly in modern times about choice in industrialized nations. Why pretend otherwise?

Shedding4Wedding2014

This thread is comedy gold, thanks.

jonnythan

Veganism was impossible before the advent of B12 supplemtd made from microbes.

MadameLAL

I don't give two wits about whether humans are herbivores, omnivores or carnivores. That's not the point of this thread, as I understand it.

I also don't need to romanticize about people living off the land. With 7 billion people on this planet requiring roughly 2000 calories per day per capita, I know a complex food system is necessary. I can play at growing my own food, but realistically I can't do it all. Most of us can't. We need to look at sustainability of many contemporary practices, including how we feed our growing population.

So, can we put the past aside and talk about future considerations?

MadameLAL

Veganism was impossible before the advent of B12 supplemtd made from microbes.

So?

wheird

I don't give two wits about whether humans are herbivores, omnivores or carnivores. That's not the point of this thread, as I understand it.

I also don't need to romanticize about people living off the land. With 7 billion people on this planet requiring roughly 2000 calories per day per capita, I know a complex food system is necessary. I can play at growing my own food, but realistically I can't do it all. Most of us can't. We need to look at sustainability of many contemporary practices, including how we feed our growing population.

So, can we put the past aside and talk about future considerations?

Agricultural methods are not the point of this thread either. Though it is an interesting topic.

LiftAllThePizzas

Did this Nobel prize winner also predict the end of people having pets?

Or did they predict that all cats and dogs would become vegans too?

MadameLAL

Did this Nobel prize winner also predict the end of people having pets?

Or did they predict that all cats and dogs would become vegans too?

What does that have to do with anything?

Whambam087

I don't give two wits about whether humans are herbivores, omnivores or carnivores. That's not the point of this thread, as I understand it.

I also don't need to romanticize about people living off the land. With 7 billion people on this planet requiring roughly 2000 calories per day per capita, I know a complex food system is necessary. I can play at growing my own food, but realistically I can't do it all. Most of us can't. We need to look at sustainability of many contemporary practices, including how we feed our growing population.

So, can we put the past aside and talk about future considerations?

we're screwed basically. Most of our meat comes from factory farms which are incredibly damaging to the environment--for one manure lagoons anyone? And I don't see us going back to your local sustainable farm anytime soon. Don't know if it's even possible

MadameLAL

I don't give two wits about whether humans are herbivores, omnivores or carnivores. That's not the point of this thread, as I understand it.

I also don't need to romanticize about people living off the land. With 7 billion people on this planet requiring roughly 2000 calories per day per capita, I know a complex food system is necessary. I can play at growing my own food, but realistically I can't do it all. Most of us can't. We need to look at sustainability of many contemporary practices, including how we feed our growing population.

So, can we put the past aside and talk about future considerations?

Agricultural methods are not the point of this thread either. Though it is an interesting topic.

Actually, you are right. The linked article talks about meat-eating becoming repugnant to a future population. I do think that may be possible, but it's hard for me to believe these sensitivities in our population would happen anytime soon. But, then, I never thought I would ever see the day when gay marriage would be a reality in so many states. Social change does happen, and sometimes faster than one would expect.

QuietBloom

Did this Nobel prize winner also predict the end of people having pets?

Or did they predict that all cats and dogs would become vegans too?

What does that have to do with anything?

His stance is that because it will not be economically feasible for humans to remain omnivorous, and so we will all turn vegan. So, what are the implications in regards to our meat eating pets?

LiftAllThePizzas

Did this Nobel prize winner also predict the end of people having pets?

Or did they predict that all cats and dogs would become vegans too?

What does that have to do with anything?

Well if there's no meat being farmed/produced by humans, what are all the dogs and cats (and other pets) going to eat?

Or are you proposing turning them all out into the wild? Or perhaps just killing them all? (As well as all the domestic cows, sheep, goats, chickens, etc.)

PikaKnight

Okay this is my last post, and only because Joy put up that ridiculous refutation of Roberts.

First you should know that the author of that article has his own high fat meat eating organization. He also died of a heart attack at age 77, which is a remarkable old age for a meat eater.

livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/low-carb-high-fat-diet-guru-barry-groves-77-passes-away/18318

Second, if you look at the cites you will see his animal studies pretty much all come from a 1969 study of zoo deaths, and not a single one of the creatures who died in the study had cholesterol plaque buildup that occluded the arteries. That is in fact what Dr Roberts talked about, so the studies were immaterial.

Finally, I apologize to all of you for bringing you information you were not capable of understanding. I won't do it again. And if SonofBeach was a Wharton or Penn Law School professor I am the queen of Spain. Have fun with that. You are all juvenile enough to play with that and entertain yourselves for hours. This is my last post on this board;

I'd believe SunofaBeach has lectured at Penn way before I believe someone who can't comprehend certain basics has managed 3 degrees. Each their own.

MadameLAL

Did this Nobel prize winner also predict the end of people having pets?

Or did they predict that all cats and dogs would become vegans too?

What does that have to do with anything?

Well if there's no meat being farmed/produced by humans, what are all the dogs and cats (and other pets) going to eat?

Or are you proposing turning them all out into the wild? Or perhaps just killing them all? (As well as all the domestic cows, sheep, goats, chickens, etc.)

Okay, now I get your point. We are nowhere near the point of growing cost-effective lab meat, but I am hopeful that will provide meat for the animal companions we have who need it in the future.

jonnythan

Veganism was impossible before the advent of B12 supplemtd made from microbes.

So?

Just pointing it out. Veganism is impossible without chemicals produced and refined in a lab.

MadameLAL

Veganism was impossible before the advent of B12 supplemtd made from microbes.

So?

Just pointing it out. Veganism is impossible without chemicals produced and refined in a lab.

Again, it baffles me why this matters to you.

SunofaBeach14

Did this Nobel prize winner also predict the end of people having pets?

Or did they predict that all cats and dogs would become vegans too?

What does that have to do with anything?

Well if there's no meat being farmed/produced by humans, what are all the dogs and cats (and other pets) going to eat?

Or are you proposing turning them all out into the wild? Or perhaps just killing them all? (As well as all the domestic cows, sheep, goats, chickens, etc.)

Okay, now I get your point. We are nowhere near the point of growing cost-effective lab meat, but I am hopeful that will provide meat for the animal companions we have who need it in the future.

Just because we aren't there yet doesn't mean that it won't happen. All these Malthusian prophecies of doom do seem a bit much. Of course, I plan to continue enjoying my steak and Cabernet. You can keep the cats.

wheird

Veganism was impossible before the advent of B12 supplemtd made from microbes.

So?

Just pointing it out. Veganism is impossible without chemicals produced and refined in a lab.

Again, it baffles me why this matters to you.

It was in reference to the claim that humans are herbivores.

Serah87

Hmm, a cheeseburger sounds really good right now.

Maybe with some bacon.

I think I'm in love!!

Iron_Feline

Veganism was impossible before the advent of B12 supplemtd made from microbes.

So?

Just pointing it out. Veganism is impossible without chemicals produced and refined in a lab.

Again, it baffles me why this matters to you.

I take it you haven't read the thread. It was part of the discussion with the op and various others.

SunofaBeach14

Veganism was impossible before the advent of B12 supplemtd made from microbes.

So?

Just pointing it out. Veganism is impossible without chemicals produced and refined in a lab.

Again, it baffles me why this matters to you.

It was in reference to the claim that humans are herbivores.

Which was pretty much the basis for all the arguments in this thread

wheird

I would like to see home gardens become more popular.