A Calorie is NOT just a Calorie

neanderthin

Bravo.

Just say it exactly the way you just did. The problem I see is a LOT of people are NOT saying "But the occasional treat is okay too!" They're just saying "A calorie is a calorie so eat whatever you want". And to prove the point we get the anecdote of one guy in Uraguay who lost weight eating nothing but Cinnabon. And even when they begrudgingly, breaking cult rules, admit it's not a great idea, they say it's because it wouldn't be healthy. Well yeah. But no. It's because you couldn't do it. You'd burn though that sugar in no time and be starving for the rest of the day. Normal people couldn't maintain that very long.

As you said, it isn't all or nothing. In other words, neither extreme is appropriate. And advocating one extreme is no better than advocating the other. So let's stop doing it.

"It's about balance. Moderation. Finding a happy medium."

Well said. And that implies that you need to be at least SOMEWHAT selective in your diet choices. And another way of saying that might be that all foods are not equal. Or yet another way of saying that might be "a calorie is NOT a calorie". And yet, if someone dare suggest such heresy against the cult, the members rally to shun the unbeliever!

It's become some kind of self feeding echo chamber of weirdness on here. I get it. Just take it down a notch. Or 100.

The above quote is yours, fast_eddie_72...

LOL fast_eddie_72.... You know it would have been a lot more respect-worthy simply to say "you know what? I thought about what you said and I think you're right" rather than pretending that you'd agreed all along... especially given that this is all here in text for everyone to see

neandermagnon

I have to say I love that this is still going...

I love your profile pic

yours is great too, because I think a lot of people see fit people and think they were born fit and never had to work to get there.... your message challenges that idea

QuietBloom

I have to say I love that this is still going...

I love your profile pic

yours is great too, because I think a lot of people see fit people and think they were born fit and never had to work to get there.... your message challenges that idea

Where as mine says I got that way by just posing in the mirror. :laugh: :laugh:

Mirey just keeps those MFP fitspirations coming, doesn't she?

QuietBloom

Bravo.

Just say it exactly the way you just did. The problem I see is a LOT of people are NOT saying "But the occasional treat is okay too!" They're just saying "A calorie is a calorie so eat whatever you want". And to prove the point we get the anecdote of one guy in Uraguay who lost weight eating nothing but Cinnabon. And even when they begrudgingly, breaking cult rules, admit it's not a great idea, they say it's because it wouldn't be healthy. Well yeah. But no. It's because you couldn't do it. You'd burn though that sugar in no time and be starving for the rest of the day. Normal people couldn't maintain that very long.

As you said, it isn't all or nothing. In other words, neither extreme is appropriate. And advocating one extreme is no better than advocating the other. So let's stop doing it.

"It's about balance. Moderation. Finding a happy medium."

Well said. And that implies that you need to be at least SOMEWHAT selective in your diet choices. And another way of saying that might be that all foods are not equal. Or yet another way of saying that might be "a calorie is NOT a calorie". And yet, if someone dare suggest such heresy against the cult, the members rally to shun the unbeliever!

It's become some kind of self feeding echo chamber of weirdness on here. I get it. Just take it down a notch. Or 100.

The above quote is yours, fast_eddie_72...

LOL fast_eddie_72.... You know it would have been a lot more respect-worthy simply to say "you know what? I thought about what you said and I think you're right" rather than pretending that you'd agreed all along... especially given that this is all here in text for everyone to see

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

fast_eddie_72

Bravo.

Just say it exactly the way you just did. The problem I see is a LOT of people are NOT saying "But the occasional treat is okay too!" They're just saying "A calorie is a calorie so eat whatever you want". And to prove the point we get the anecdote of one guy in Uraguay who lost weight eating nothing but Cinnabon. And even when they begrudgingly, breaking cult rules, admit it's not a great idea, they say it's because it wouldn't be healthy. Well yeah. But no. It's because you couldn't do it. You'd burn though that sugar in no time and be starving for the rest of the day. Normal people couldn't maintain that very long.

As you said, it isn't all or nothing. In other words, neither extreme is appropriate. And advocating one extreme is no better than advocating the other. So let's stop doing it.

"It's about balance. Moderation. Finding a happy medium."

Well said. And that implies that you need to be at least SOMEWHAT selective in your diet choices. And another way of saying that might be that all foods are not equal. Or yet another way of saying that might be "a calorie is NOT a calorie". And yet, if someone dare suggest such heresy against the cult, the members rally to shun the unbeliever!

It's become some kind of self feeding echo chamber of weirdness on here. I get it. Just take it down a notch. Or 100.

The above quote is yours, fast_eddie_72...

I know you don't care. You're just fighting. That's fine. But I'll explain it anyway.

I was responding to a post that said it's about balance and moderation. If a calorie is a calorie, why moderation? I didn't say a calorie isn't a calorie. I said that the person who posted about "moderation" was making a distinction between some calories and other calories. Right? We good so far? You can't disagree with that.

So follow me. If you make a distinction between some calories and other calories, what are you saying? How can they be the same... and different? I didn't say a calorie isn't a calorie. The person I was responding to, who swears up and down that c=c, said something other than c=c.

And you did too.

And it'll save your sanity and improve your long term chances of success, because you can tailor your own eating plan to include all the foods you want to eat (in moderation, so you still get all the nutrition you need), rather than fearfully avoiding demonised foods that it's not even necessary to avoid.

If c=c, why moderation? If c=c, why do I have to watch what I eat for nutrition? They're all exactly the same. A calorie is a calorie. It doesn't imply that they're identical, it says it in so many words.

I've never disagreed (and have made a point of saying so over and over again) that it is accurate to say that, with regard to weight loss, it doesn't matter where the calories come from as long as there is a deficit. What I said is the same thing you said. There's more to it than that. It's accurate, but it's not the whole story. And if you want, in your words, "long term chances of success" you should "include all the foods you want to eat in moderation". Which is something different from "eat whatever you want" and "a calorie is a calorie". That's all.

As has been pointed out, it's semantics. And c=c WITH NO OTHER EXPLANATION is poor and misleading advice for someone who wants to lose weight and keep it off.

I've said exactly the same thing very clearly over and over again and STILL people who AGREE insist on arguing with me. So I'm really out of this one at this point. It's not possible anyone can be unclear about what I'm saying.

QuietBloom

:huh:

neandermagnon

fast eddie..... if you agreed that a calorie IS just a calorie then why did you tell me I was adding to the bull**** and oversimplifying things? Sorry but those aren't the words of someone who agreed with my post....

since when is giving people mathematically and scientifically correct information oversimplyfing things and adding to the bull***?

DamePiglet

I just spent 110 calorie dollars on two powdered sugar donuts.
My diary / check book will still balance because before that I had lean protein and I'll be having vegetables later this afternoon.

This Dame pays her nutrition bills.
Usually.

fast_eddie_72

fast eddie..... if you agreed that a calorie IS just a calorie then why did you tell me I was adding to the bull**** and oversimplifying things? Sorry but those aren't the words of someone who agreed with my post....

since when is giving people mathematically and scientifically correct information oversimplyfing things and adding to the bull***?

It's all there in the last post. I'm done arguing with you. Not possible that you could be unclear. I spelled it out, did the math, and showed my work. You want more questions? Answer mine. Why moderation if all calories are exactly the same? Why watch what I eat for nutrition if all calories are exactly the same?

neanderthin

Bravo.

Just say it exactly the way you just did. The problem I see is a LOT of people are NOT saying "But the occasional treat is okay too!" They're just saying "A calorie is a calorie so eat whatever you want". And to prove the point we get the anecdote of one guy in Uraguay who lost weight eating nothing but Cinnabon. And even when they begrudgingly, breaking cult rules, admit it's not a great idea, they say it's because it wouldn't be healthy. Well yeah. But no. It's because you couldn't do it. You'd burn though that sugar in no time and be starving for the rest of the day. Normal people couldn't maintain that very long.

As you said, it isn't all or nothing. In other words, neither extreme is appropriate. And advocating one extreme is no better than advocating the other. So let's stop doing it.

"It's about balance. Moderation. Finding a happy medium."

Well said. And that implies that you need to be at least SOMEWHAT selective in your diet choices. And another way of saying that might be that all foods are not equal. Or yet another way of saying that might be "a calorie is NOT a calorie". And yet, if someone dare suggest such heresy against the cult, the members rally to shun the unbeliever!

It's become some kind of self feeding echo chamber of weirdness on here. I get it. Just take it down a notch. Or 100.

The above quote is yours, fast_eddie_72...

I know you don't care. You're just fighting. That's fine. But I'll explain it anyway.

I was responding to a post that said it's about balance and moderation. If a calorie is a calorie, why moderation? I didn't say a calorie isn't a calorie. I said that the person who posted about "moderation" was making a distinction between some calories and other calories. Right? We good so far? You can't disagree with that.

So follow me. If you make a distinction between some calories and other calories, what are you saying? How can they be the same... and different? I didn't say a calorie isn't a calorie. The person I was responding to, who swears up and down that c=c, said something other than c=c.

And you did too.

And it'll save your sanity and improve your long term chances of success, because you can tailor your own eating plan to include all the foods you want to eat (in moderation, so you still get all the nutrition you need), rather than fearfully avoiding demonised foods that it's not even necessary to avoid.

If c=c, why moderation? If c=c, why do I have to watch what I eat for nutrition? They're all exactly the same. A calorie is a calorie. It doesn't imply that they're identical, it says it in so many words.

I've never disagreed (and have made a point of saying so over and over again) that it is accurate to say that, with regard to weight loss, it doesn't matter where the calories come from as long as there is a deficit. What I said is the same thing you said. There's more to it than that. It's accurate, but it's not the whole story. And if you want, in your words, "long term chances of success" you should "include all the foods you want to eat in moderation". Which is something different from "eat whatever you want" and "a calorie is a calorie". That's all.

As has been pointed out, it's semantics. And c=c WITH NO OTHER EXPLANATION is poor and misleading advice for someone who wants to lose weight and keep it off.

I've said exactly the same thing very clearly over and over again and STILL people who AGREE insist on arguing with me. So I'm really out of this one at this point. It's not possible anyone can be unclear about what I'm saying.

I said

Yeah, people just get caught up in semantics mostly. People confuse a calorie is a calorie with not all calories are created equal all the time.

Then you said

There's the hat trick! Sometimes it's good to be me.

You were on a roll about this time.......your endorphins were ramping up pretty good.

fast_eddie_72

I just spent 110 calorie dollars on two powdered sugar donuts.
My diary / check book will still balance because before that I had lean protein and I'll be having vegetables later this afternoon.

This Dame pays her nutrition bills.
Usually.

Why vegetables later? What nutrition bills? All calories are exactly the same. Just have two more donuts. Eat whatever you want.

stevencloser

"If a pound is a pound, why would you rather have a feather fall on your head than a rock?"
Cause some things have more of it and you might, MIGHT!, not want to have too much at the same time because apparently some people can't control themselves if they get hungry.

geebusuk

It's all there in the last post. I'm done arguing with you. Not possible that you could be unclear. I spelled it out, did the math, and showed my work. You want more questions? Answer mine. Why moderation if all calories are exactly the same? Why watch what I eat for nutrition if all calories are exactly the same?

Must people that accept "a calorie is a calorie" don't discount that there are benefits to getting adequate micro-nutrients too.
Thankfully they don't tend to expect every morsel of food to be packed full of micronutrients they already have plenty of in general.

mccindy72

I just spent 110 calorie dollars on two powdered sugar donuts.
My diary / check book will still balance because before that I had lean protein and I'll be having vegetables later this afternoon.

This Dame pays her nutrition bills.
Usually.

Why vegetables later? What nutrition bills? All calories are exactly the same. Just have two more donuts. Eat whatever you want.

HOW DID I MISS THIS! Aw, you guys had a debate without me....... :sad:

Hey, fast eds, you're wrong.

mccindy72

"If a pound is a pound, why would you rather have a feather fall on your head than a rock?"
Cause some things have more of it and you might, MIGHT!, not want to have too much at the same time because apparently some people can't control themselves if they get hungry.

More of what? Too much of what?

fast_eddie_72

It's all there in the last post. I'm done arguing with you. Not possible that you could be unclear. I spelled it out, did the math, and showed my work. You want more questions? Answer mine. Why moderation if all calories are exactly the same? Why watch what I eat for nutrition if all calories are exactly the same?

Must people that accept "a calorie is a calorie" don't discount that there are benefits to getting adequate micro-nutrients too.
Thankfully they don't tend to expect every morsel of food to be packed full of micronutrients they already have plenty of in general.

Somehow, even though that's true, they'll argue with you when you say so. Weird.

geebusuk

I've not found that, but then I've never tried to tell such people a calorie isn't a calorie either .

sloth3toes

Yup...

as long as your TDEE is around 3500 and that is McDonalds...7 cheeseburgers=2100 calories, fries=300 calories, shake is 660 calories...

My son could eat that everyday and lose weight...husband would maintain.

I wish.....

DamePiglet

I just spent 110 calorie dollars on two powdered sugar donuts.
My diary / check book will still balance because before that I had lean protein and I'll be having vegetables later this afternoon.

This Dame pays her nutrition bills.
Usually.

Why vegetables later?

Because I've been in my car all day and haven't had access to a grocery store or microwave. Most days I've eaten 4 servings of veges before noon. I LOVE veges.

What nutrition bills? .

"Nutrition bills" is a metaphor for the micro & macro nutrients that I need.
It refers to bills like electricity, water, etc. that I pay because I'm a grown up.

All calories are exactly the same. Just have two more donuts. Eat whatever you want

I might just have more donuts later if I have calories left over. I will probably choose something else, however, because we are out of donuts.

Protein is not a calorie.
Vitamin A is not a calorie.
A calorie is a calorie, just like a US dollar is a US dollar.

fast_eddie_72

Bravo.

Just say it exactly the way you just did. The problem I see is a LOT of people are NOT saying "But the occasional treat is okay too!" They're just saying "A calorie is a calorie so eat whatever you want". And to prove the point we get the anecdote of one guy in Uraguay who lost weight eating nothing but Cinnabon. And even when they begrudgingly, breaking cult rules, admit it's not a great idea, they say it's because it wouldn't be healthy. Well yeah. But no. It's because you couldn't do it. You'd burn though that sugar in no time and be starving for the rest of the day. Normal people couldn't maintain that very long.

As you said, it isn't all or nothing. In other words, neither extreme is appropriate. And advocating one extreme is no better than advocating the other. So let's stop doing it.

"It's about balance. Moderation. Finding a happy medium."

Well said. And that implies that you need to be at least SOMEWHAT selective in your diet choices. And another way of saying that might be that all foods are not equal. Or yet another way of saying that might be "a calorie is NOT a calorie". And yet, if someone dare suggest such heresy against the cult, the members rally to shun the unbeliever!

It's become some kind of self feeding echo chamber of weirdness on here. I get it. Just take it down a notch. Or 100.

The above quote is yours, fast_eddie_72...

I know you don't care. You're just fighting. That's fine. But I'll explain it anyway.

I was responding to a post that said it's about balance and moderation. If a calorie is a calorie, why moderation? I didn't say a calorie isn't a calorie. I said that the person who posted about "moderation" was making a distinction between some calories and other calories. Right? We good so far? You can't disagree with that.

So follow me. If you make a distinction between some calories and other calories, what are you saying? How can they be the same... and different? I didn't say a calorie isn't a calorie. The person I was responding to, who swears up and down that c=c, said something other than c=c.

And you did too.

And it'll save your sanity and improve your long term chances of success, because you can tailor your own eating plan to include all the foods you want to eat (in moderation, so you still get all the nutrition you need), rather than fearfully avoiding demonised foods that it's not even necessary to avoid.

If c=c, why moderation? If c=c, why do I have to watch what I eat for nutrition? They're all exactly the same. A calorie is a calorie. It doesn't imply that they're identical, it says it in so many words.

I've never disagreed (and have made a point of saying so over and over again) that it is accurate to say that, with regard to weight loss, it doesn't matter where the calories come from as long as there is a deficit. What I said is the same thing you said. There's more to it than that. It's accurate, but it's not the whole story. And if you want, in your words, "long term chances of success" you should "include all the foods you want to eat in moderation". Which is something different from "eat whatever you want" and "a calorie is a calorie". That's all.

As has been pointed out, it's semantics. And c=c WITH NO OTHER EXPLANATION is poor and misleading advice for someone who wants to lose weight and keep it off.

I've said exactly the same thing very clearly over and over again and STILL people who AGREE insist on arguing with me. So I'm really out of this one at this point. It's not possible anyone can be unclear about what I'm saying.

I said

Yeah, people just get caught up in semantics mostly. People confuse a calorie is a calorie with not all calories are created equal all the time.

Then you said

There's the hat trick! Sometimes it's good to be me.

You were on a roll about this time.......your endorphins were ramping up pretty good.

"A calorie is a calorie" =/= "Not all calories are created equal all the time"

Schrodenger's cat is alive. Schrodenger's cat is dead.

stevencloser

It's all there in the last post. I'm done arguing with you. Not possible that you could be unclear. I spelled it out, did the math, and showed my work. You want more questions? Answer mine. Why moderation if all calories are exactly the same? Why watch what I eat for nutrition if all calories are exactly the same?

Must people that accept "a calorie is a calorie" don't discount that there are benefits to getting adequate micro-nutrients too.
Thankfully they don't tend to expect every morsel of food to be packed full of micronutrients they already have plenty of in general.

Somehow, even though that's true, they'll argue with you when you say so. Weird.

Mostly because you seem to be purposely twisting their words around.

mccindy72

It's all there in the last post. I'm done arguing with you. Not possible that you could be unclear. I spelled it out, did the math, and showed my work. You want more questions? Answer mine. Why moderation if all calories are exactly the same? Why watch what I eat for nutrition if all calories are exactly the same?

Must people that accept "a calorie is a calorie" don't discount that there are benefits to getting adequate micro-nutrients too.
Thankfully they don't tend to expect every morsel of food to be packed full of micronutrients they already have plenty of in general.

Somehow, even though that's true, they'll argue with you when you say so. Weird.

You just haven't been paying attention when reading any of our posts about it. We've all said once you reach your macro needs, it's fine to eat whatever else, as long it fits in your calorie goals. IIFYM.

fast_eddie_72

I've not found that, but then I've never tried to tell such people a calorie isn't a calorie either .

Neither have I.

sloth3toes

I just spent 110 calorie dollars on two powdered sugar donuts.
My diary / check book will still balance because before that I had lean protein and I'll be having vegetables later this afternoon.

This Dame pays her nutrition bills.
Usually.

fast_eddie_72

It's all there in the last post. I'm done arguing with you. Not possible that you could be unclear. I spelled it out, did the math, and showed my work. You want more questions? Answer mine. Why moderation if all calories are exactly the same? Why watch what I eat for nutrition if all calories are exactly the same?

Must people that accept "a calorie is a calorie" don't discount that there are benefits to getting adequate micro-nutrients too.
Thankfully they don't tend to expect every morsel of food to be packed full of micronutrients they already have plenty of in general.

Somehow, even though that's true, they'll argue with you when you say so. Weird.

You just haven't been paying attention when reading any of our posts about it. We've all said once you reach your macro needs, it's fine to eat whatever else, as long it fits in your calorie goals. IIFYM.

And I've agreed with that. Sorry, who are you again? What have you said that I disagreed with? And who is "We"? Go back and read what I've actually posted. IIFYM is exactly what I'm asking people to say.

fast_eddie_72

It's all there in the last post. I'm done arguing with you. Not possible that you could be unclear. I spelled it out, did the math, and showed my work. You want more questions? Answer mine. Why moderation if all calories are exactly the same? Why watch what I eat for nutrition if all calories are exactly the same?

Must people that accept "a calorie is a calorie" don't discount that there are benefits to getting adequate micro-nutrients too.
Thankfully they don't tend to expect every morsel of food to be packed full of micronutrients they already have plenty of in general.

Somehow, even though that's true, they'll argue with you when you say so. Weird.

Mostly because you seem to be purposely twisting their words around.

Kinda the opposite, really.

rocknlotsofrolls

I just found out that 1 nutty buddy bar has a whopping 330 calories, so I decided to eat 1/2 of a Herseys special dark chocolate bar instead for 100 calories. So I guess you could argue the fact if you want to eat mostly healthly and add some junk food, all while staying within your calorie limit, you need to be finding the lowest calorie junk food that will satisfy you. I really did want that nutty bar though, but I ate the Hersey instead, so maybe just maybe I don't eat ANYTHING I want. Does that make sense?

ChrisM8971

I just spent 110 calorie dollars on two powdered sugar donuts.
My diary / check book will still balance because before that I had lean protein and I'll be having vegetables later this afternoon.

This Dame pays her nutrition bills.
Usually.

Why vegetables later? What nutrition bills? All calories are exactly the same. Just have two more donuts. Eat whatever you want.

Ok I have missed most of the posts but surely its a simple case of a calorie = a calorie when we are talking about the energy required to run the body (and when it comes to weight gain and loss) Nutritional value is completely different to energy and it is healthy to try and meet all of your macro and micro nutrients requirements by eating different foods. However those nutrients do not determine weight loss or gain thats back to calories and making sure you maintain the level you require to obtain your weight goals

Edited because my spelling sucks

DamePiglet

I just spent 110 calorie dollars on two powdered sugar donuts.
My diary / check book will still balance because before that I had lean protein and I'll be having vegetables later this afternoon.

This Dame pays her nutrition bills.
Usually.

You sly Sloth... Yer on to me! I am Richard Simmons.

(Btw... I hadn't thought about this, but, yeah, it is kinda like that, huh?)

stevencloser

It's all there in the last post. I'm done arguing with you. Not possible that you could be unclear. I spelled it out, did the math, and showed my work. You want more questions? Answer mine. Why moderation if all calories are exactly the same? Why watch what I eat for nutrition if all calories are exactly the same?

Must people that accept "a calorie is a calorie" don't discount that there are benefits to getting adequate micro-nutrients too.
Thankfully they don't tend to expect every morsel of food to be packed full of micronutrients they already have plenty of in general.

Somehow, even though that's true, they'll argue with you when you say so. Weird.

Mostly because you seem to be purposely twisting their words around.

Kinda the opposite, really.

We're trying to talk about calories but you ALWAYS seem to be going on about "this and that is more calorie dense" "this and that has better protein".
The thing with the donuts was exactly the same.