Dairy Alarmism

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Replies

  • jim180155
    jim180155 Posts: 769 Member
    No i'm not a raw vegan, but i'm close. Cooked food is not as nutritious as raw fruits and veg.

    Not everyone agrees, but I think raw veggies taste better than cooked veggies. And I think everyone likes raw fruits better than cooked.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,228 Member
    No i'm not a raw vegan, but i'm close. Cooked food is not as nutritious as raw fruits and veg.

    Not everyone agrees, but I think raw veggies taste better than cooked veggies. And I think everyone likes raw fruits better than cooked.

    Raw veggies =/= raw fruit
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,399 Member
    The ones drinking milk in this pic are:
    babies
    carnivores

    Human adults are neither.

    True; however, I don't know if you noticed but she referred to the line that said "we are the only mammals that consume milk from another mammal".
    I noticed, but i still think cow's milk is not a good food for humans. We are the only species who makes a daily habit of harvesting and processing the milk from another species, and then consuming it long into adulthood.

    We do it because we can. Other animals can't---or perhaps they would. :smile:
  • Rocbola
    Rocbola Posts: 1,998 Member
    QUOTE FROM SNOWFLAKE954: We do it because we can. Other animals can't---or perhaps they would. :smile:
    Perhaps you are right.

    (How's that quoting method, Jim?)
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  • _John_
    _John_ Posts: 8,646 Member

    I won't group all vegetables into tastes better cooked or raw because I prefer different ones in different styles

    I find some of the higher nutrient veggies difficult to consume raw (greens) in any decent calorie #. Granted those were never really "intended" to be consumed as a high % of a human diet.
  • jim180155
    jim180155 Posts: 769 Member
    Perhaps you are right.

    (How's that quoting method, Jim?)

    We're making progress. I think my work here is done.
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,399 Member
    No i'm not a raw vegan, but i'm close. Cooked food is not as nutritious as raw fruits and veg.

    Not everyone agrees, but I think raw veggies taste better than cooked veggies. And I think everyone likes raw fruits better than cooked.

    So you don't like apple pie?
  • richardheath
    richardheath Posts: 1,276 Member
    According to him, yes. He is a raw vegan, IIRC.
    No i'm not a raw vegan, but i'm close. Cooked food is not as nutritious as raw fruits and veg.

    Sorry.

    But cooked can be more nutritious than raw. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/raw-veggies-are-healthier/
    One 2002 study he did (published in the Journal of Agriculture and Food Chemistry) found that cooking actually boosts the amount of lycopene in tomatoes. He tells ScientificAmerican.com that the level of one type of lycopene, cis-lycopene, in tomatoes rose 35 percent after he cooked them for 30 minutes at 190.4 degrees Fahrenheit (88 degrees Celsius). The reason, he says: the heat breaks down the plants' thick cell walls and aids the body's uptake of some nutrients that are bound to those cell walls.

    Cooked carrots, spinach, mushrooms, asparagus, cabbage, peppers and many other vegetables also supply more antioxidants, such as carotenoids and ferulic acid, to the body than they do when raw, Liu says. At least, that is, if they're boiled or steamed. A January 2008 report in the Journal of Agriculture and Food Chemistry said that boiling and steaming better preserves antioxidants, particularly carotenoid, in carrots, zucchini and broccoli, than frying, though boiling was deemed the best. The researchers studied the impact of the various cooking techniques on compounds such as carotenoids, ascorbic acid and polyphenols.
  • richardheath
    richardheath Posts: 1,276 Member
    QUOTE FROM SNOWFLAKE954: We do it because we can. Other animals can't---or perhaps they would. :smile:
    Perhaps you are right.

    (How's that quoting method, Jim?)

    Other forums I've posted on have a
    username wrote:
    function, that adds the poster's name to the quote... Wish they'd do that here!
  • jim180155
    jim180155 Posts: 769 Member
    No i'm not a raw vegan, but i'm close. Cooked food is not as nutritious as raw fruits and veg.

    Not everyone agrees, but I think raw veggies taste better than cooked veggies. And I think everyone likes raw fruits better than cooked.

    So you don't like apple pie?

    You got me there. Now I will have to start adding amendments to the rule. After being ratified by all 50 states, of course.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    i honestly dont understand why people cant have different opinions and believe in different things and still not be nasty? also, not everyone who is against dairy is out to convert everyone, some just want to state their opinion, as it is their right. its fine if you say you disagree or you havent seen proof, etc.. but its not ok to insult people for having different beliefs.

    so you love milk, noone was attacking you! noone calls you dilusional. noone ridicules you. so please dont attack people who dont agree with the milk industry, thanks. :)

    I agree with you, but the insults have been flying from both directions.

    It's unfortunate that we can't disagree while still treating each other with some respect.

    Welcome to MFP! :laugh:

    19cdpj5zd2ue6gif.gif
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    True, John.

    Also, it'd be nice if the quotes included names. As entertaining as some of these arguments are, it's hard to remember who's arguing with who.

    So much this! I think someone started a thread to request it in the "Suggestions" section. Most forums give the user name of the person being quoted. It can be confusing, and I'm not the only one to get confused on who I'm actually debating sometimes.
  • Derp_Diggler
    Derp_Diggler Posts: 1,456 Member
    In... because it's going to be slow at work later.
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  • Rocbola
    Rocbola Posts: 1,998 Member
    QUOTE FROM ROCBOLA: No i'm not a raw vegan, but i'm close. Cooked food is not as nutritious as raw fruits and veg.
    QUOTE FROM RICHARDHEATH:
    Sorry.

    But cooked can be more nutritious than raw. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/raw-veggies-are-healthier/
    I do my fair share of yapping about raw foods, i think most people think i'm all raw. I do eat cooked veggie soups, especially in the long, cold winter.

    I've read this before too. Some anti-oxidants can be increased by cooking, and the availability of some are increased by cooking. However, many other nutrients are destroyed by cooking. The big picture is that raw foods, the fresher the better, have overall more nutrition. That's not saying that there is no nutritional value to cooked foods.
  • susannamarie
    susannamarie Posts: 2,148 Member

    I agree with you, but the insults have been flying from both directions.

    It's unfortunate that we can't disagree while still treating each other with some respect.

    but in self defense, if i remember correctly.. :P

    Not really, if you check, the first post by him was totally reasonable (and a good idea, too), but the second went straight for "dairy industry plants" before there'd even been any bickering.

    Respectful disagreement does not consist of cheering the people who agree with you for their wisdom while claiming that anyone who disagrees is a dairy industry plant out to destroy the health of everyone.

    One of the serious issues with people who've been overweight is that they discover a way that helps them lose weight and feel better, and immediately jump to "everyone should do this". This is not unique to him, either, I have seen people whose health was tremendously improved (not just weight-wise, but all blood markers as well) by Atkins, paleo, veganism, cutting calories, and more (just naming a few examples). Since it has helped them so much, they've gone evangelical with their chosen diet, and spend a lot of time searching for research that supports this as the One Best Way to Diet, while ignoring any research that fails to support it based on the grounds that it's a shill for the meat industry/dairy industry/grain industry/PETA/big Pharma wanting to keep us sick/insert conspiracy theory of choice, and arguing vociferously with anyone who dares to suggest that there might not be one optimal diet.

    It's an understandable tendency and something we all need to watch ourselves for.
  • jim180155
    jim180155 Posts: 769 Member

    One of the serious issues with people who've been overweight is that they discover a way that helps them lose weight and feel better, and immediately jump to "everyone should do this". This is not unique to him, either, I have seen people whose health was tremendously improved (not just weight-wise, but all blood markers as well) by Atkins, paleo, veganism, cutting calories, and more (just naming a few examples). Since it has helped them so much, they've gone evangelical with their chosen diet, and spend a lot of time searching for research that supports this as the One Best Way to Diet, while ignoring any research that fails to support it based on the grounds that it's a shill for the meat industry/dairy industry/grain industry/PETA/big Pharma wanting to keep us sick/insert conspiracy theory of choice, and arguing vociferously with anyone who dares to suggest that there might not be one optimal diet.

    It's an understandable tendency and something we all need to watch ourselves for.

    So true.

    And I know of a diet that can cure it ....
  • Aross83
    Aross83 Posts: 936 Member
    If you dont want to eat Dairy Dont eat Dairy. If you want to gobble it up! Personally i have come to my own conclusion that Milk is not necessary and i choose not to consume it anymore. Its for baby cows not humans. The only little bit of dairy i eat is mozzarella once and a while. but i am working on no Dairy at all.. its a choice to make by yourself. I personally believe that Milk has been advertised and push on us saying well if you dont drink milk you wont get enought calcium. its all political and money driven. They dont want people to stop drinking milk becuase people make alot of money from the Milk industry. anyways its a personal choice. if you are drinking regular USDA Milk you are drinking hormones. if you are ok with that, thats your choice.
  • Rocbola
    Rocbola Posts: 1,998 Member
    If you dont want to eat Dairy Dont eat Dairy. If you want to gobble it up! Personally i have come to my own conclusion that Milk is not necessary and i choose not to consume it anymore. Its for baby cows not humans. The only little bit of dairy i eat is mozzarella once and a while. but i am working on no Dairy at all.. its a choice to make by yourself. I personally believe that Milk has been advertised and push on us saying well if you dont drink milk you wont get enought calcium. its all political and money driven. They dont want people to stop drinking milk becuase people make alot of money from the Milk industry. anyways its a personal choice. if you are drinking regular USDA Milk you are drinking hormones. if you are ok with that, thats your choice.
    Well said. :smile:
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    If you dont want to eat Dairy Dont eat Dairy. If you want to gobble it up! Personally i have come to my own conclusion that Milk is not necessary and i choose not to consume it anymore. Its for baby cows not humans. The only little bit of dairy i eat is mozzarella once and a while. but i am working on no Dairy at all.. its a choice to make by yourself. I personally believe that Milk has been advertised and push on us saying well if you dont drink milk you wont get enought calcium. its all political and money driven. They dont want people to stop drinking milk becuase people make alot of money from the Milk industry. anyways its a personal choice. if you are drinking regular USDA Milk you are drinking hormones. if you are ok with that, thats your choice.

    Nonsense...
  • richardheath
    richardheath Posts: 1,276 Member
    QUOTE FROM ROCBOLA: No i'm not a raw vegan, but i'm close. Cooked food is not as nutritious as raw fruits and veg.
    QUOTE FROM RICHARDHEATH:
    Sorry.

    But cooked can be more nutritious than raw. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/raw-veggies-are-healthier/
    I do my fair share of yapping about raw foods, i think most people think i'm all raw. I do eat cooked veggie soups, especially in the long, cold winter.

    I've read this before too. Some anti-oxidants can be increased by cooking, and the availability of some are increased by cooking. However, many other nutrients are destroyed by cooking. The big picture is that raw foods, the fresher the better, have overall more nutrition. That's not saying that there is no nutritional value to cooked foods.

    But what you are saying there is not the same as your earlier blanket statement saying "Cooked food is not as nutritious as raw fruits and veg". Both have their place in a varied diet.

    I'm not saying you should only eat cooked veggies: if my kids want to snack on a raw carrot, stick that's fine. But they also all ate the sauteed kale with garlic I made the other night. It was yummy (along with a pork chop, homemade apple sauce and mashed potatoes). Today, I had a big salad full of fresh raw veggies (with chicken).
  • richardheath
    richardheath Posts: 1,276 Member
    If you dont want to eat Dairy Dont eat Dairy. If you want to gobble it up! Personally i have come to my own conclusion that Milk is not necessary and i choose not to consume it anymore. Its for baby cows not humans. The only little bit of dairy i eat is mozzarella once and a while. but i am working on no Dairy at all.. its a choice to make by yourself. I personally believe that Milk has been advertised and push on us saying well if you dont drink milk you wont get enought calcium. its all political and money driven. They dont want people to stop drinking milk becuase people make alot of money from the Milk industry. anyways its a personal choice. if you are drinking regular USDA Milk you are drinking hormones. if you are ok with that, thats your choice.

    Any industry or business nowadays advertises and pushes their product in a certain way. It's up to the informed consumer to see through the hyperbole.

    And the whole "cow's milk is for baby cows" thing has been done to death in this thread already. No one food (with the possible exception of mother's milk) was designed or intended or whatever for humans. We eat whatever gives us sustenance. And some things, like broccoli and kale and bananas and almonds and cows, we tweak through breeding to make them tastier, higher yielding etc.

    But yes - bottom line is we do have a choice. Thanks to modern farming, agribusiness, refrigeration, transportation etc we can be a raw vegan year round in comfort, if that is what we chose, and be quite healthy. Or, we can drink milk and eat beef and still be healthy.
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  • nikkihk
    nikkihk Posts: 487 Member
    No i'm not a raw vegan, but i'm close. Cooked food is not as nutritious as raw fruits and veg.

    Say what??!!

    tumblr_mt1z6ucRzZ1sgl0ajo1_500.gif

    Where you get your science, homes? Cuz, It sure ain't a library.
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
    If you dont want to eat Dairy Dont eat Dairy. If you want to gobble it up! Personally i have come to my own conclusion that Milk is not necessary and i choose not to consume it anymore. Its for baby cows not humans. The only little bit of dairy i eat is mozzarella once and a while. but i am working on no Dairy at all.. its a choice to make by yourself. I personally believe that Milk has been advertised and push on us saying well if you dont drink milk you wont get enought calcium. its all political and money driven. They dont want people to stop drinking milk becuase people make alot of money from the Milk industry. anyways its a personal choice. if you are drinking regular USDA Milk you are drinking hormones. if you are ok with that, thats your choice.

    :laugh:
  • Kate
    Kate Posts: 35 Member
    MMMMMMM, that big glass of milk after my run was awesome! Seriously, perfect balance of carbs fats and proteins for recharging my system. Lucky for me I'm not allergic and my body produces it's own lactase, so there's absolutely no good reason to avoid it.

    but dairy is a death sentence!

    Well you know, none of us are getting off the planet alive anyway!
  • BrainyBurro
    BrainyBurro Posts: 6,129 Member
    If you dont want to eat Dairy Dont eat Dairy. If you want to gobble it up! Personally i have come to my own conclusion that Milk is not necessary and i choose not to consume it anymore. Its for baby cows not humans. The only little bit of dairy i eat is mozzarella once and a while. but i am working on no Dairy at all.. its a choice to make by yourself. I personally believe that Milk has been advertised and push on us saying well if you dont drink milk you wont get enought calcium. its all political and money driven. They dont want people to stop drinking milk becuase people make alot of money from the Milk industry. anyways its a personal choice. if you are drinking regular USDA Milk you are drinking hormones. if you are ok with that, thats your choice.

    Nonsense...
    Well said. :smile:
  • jim180155
    jim180155 Posts: 769 Member
    If you dont want to eat Dairy Dont eat Dairy. If you want to gobble it up! Personally i have come to my own conclusion that Milk is not necessary and i choose not to consume it anymore. Its for baby cows not humans. The only little bit of dairy i eat is mozzarella once and a while. but i am working on no Dairy at all.. its a choice to make by yourself. I personally believe that Milk has been advertised and push on us saying well if you dont drink milk you wont get enought calcium. its all political and money driven. They dont want people to stop drinking milk becuase people make alot of money from the Milk industry. anyways its a personal choice. if you are drinking regular USDA Milk you are drinking hormones. if you are ok with that, thats your choice.

    Nonsense...
    Well said. :smile:

    Not really. It made perfect sense to me. I didn't agree with everything she said, but I understood every word. If you two would like me to read it to you, maybe you too could understand and then decide whether you agree or not.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,218 Member
    If you dont want to eat Dairy Dont eat Dairy. If you want to gobble it up! Personally i have come to my own conclusion that Milk is not necessary and i choose not to consume it anymore. Its for baby cows not humans. The only little bit of dairy i eat is mozzarella once and a while. but i am working on no Dairy at all.. its a choice to make by yourself. I personally believe that Milk has been advertised and push on us saying well if you dont drink milk you wont get enought calcium. its all political and money driven. They dont want people to stop drinking milk becuase people make alot of money from the Milk industry. anyways its a personal choice. if you are drinking regular USDA Milk you are drinking hormones. if you are ok with that, thats your choice.

    Nonsense...
    Well said. :smile:
    Why you guys picking on hormones..........plants have hormones too.....

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