MFP has changed
Replies
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Soooo..... I'm a bit dense, so could someone explain to me how the burden of proof works around here? Some of you are saying that the mere existence of mean people threads proves that the site is broken because of the mean people. Then why doesn't the presence of Success Stories threads prove that the site works as it is? Why don't the thank you PMs and overflowing FRs sent to the "mean people" prove that they (we) have a role to play on MFP as well?
Again, success is variable to different people. A success story is personal, it won't apply to all. Some people have success when others are "mean" to them. Some don't. This site works differently for everybody.
I think as a rule of thumb though, it pays to be nice. If you are friends with the person on mfp, know their character, and know that responding negatively or rudely will motivate them, keep on keeping on! But on the forums when a lot of the times you don't even know the person, and what they're dealing with, who they are, what issues they may have, the snarkiness should not be present.
But if "some do, some don't", doesn't that make a case to be inclusive of different approaches? Why are you so eager to ditch a proven method just because it's not the one that personally works for you? Why the intolerance?0 -
It's being pointed out before but bears repeating.
Everything single person complaining about rudeness or un supportiveness has been here a number of years and have very few posts. I have never seen a single one of them giving advice, information, support. Never helped out a newbie. Just pop up occasionally to moan about meanies.
Now the ones who are getting accused have thousands of posts. I see them every day giving fitness tips, advice on getting started, moral support, encouraging comments. Again and again, same people. For free. Because they want to help people.
If MFP has changed well then good
Umm, no.
To disprove that, you can look at the number of posts I currently have, and while doing so you can look at the posts I've replied to. You are making a very broad assumption.
And as said by other members in this thread, many lurk the forums and do not wish to participate after witnessing people being torn to shreds by "asking stupid questions," or not bending to the tune of others. There are no stupid questions.
Facts are facts. If you burn more than you consume you will lose weight. But HOW you lose that weight is up to debate. There are so many variables. What works for some may not work for others. Some say yes to the 1200 cals a day diet, some say no. I've seen people have success both ways.
There are elder mfp members who get annoyed at answering the same questions time and time again. I am a teacher by profession. That's what teachers do, new students come in, and you re-iterate the same knowledge year after year. Now even though I'm grown, there will be the 5 year old that will SWEAR to me 1+1=11. Can I make rude remarks to him because of that? No. When he does a test and fails to show the proper answer, can I stick a cat gif sticker on his paper? Patience, encouragement and time is needed to help guide him/her to the correct answer. With a stern hand, yes, but never in a way to make the student feel dumb, small etc etc.
If you are not willing to have the time and patience to explain something to someone, why bother trying at all?
And lastly, people will think what they will at the end of the day. If that student wants to think 1+1=11 for the rest of his life, so be it. I did my part, I tried, and sadly failed. That being said, he probably won't go very far. He'll figure that out for himself.
So, as a teacher, do you like listening to people who have never set foot in a classroom telling you about how awful and lazy teachers are, how they don't care about their students, how those who can do and those who can't teach? Ever think that the people who are on here every day and have been helping for years *might* feel the same way about getting lectured for how they do things?
People stereotype, so no, it does not bother me. I explain to them what I do in the classroom, and if they don't like what I have to say then I let my work be the example.
And the people that are on here and give great advice in good spirit shouldn't care about this thread, because they would know it does not apply to them. I think the ones that are guilty are the ones making all the fuss.
I posted a topic the other day about gaining weight and I got so many replies from elder mfpers. I thanked them, and I would like to take the time to thank all the elders that have been supportive and encouraging and have built mfp into what it is today. These comments about "mean" people do not apply to you.
However, I will not accept or support those who feel entitled because they've been on MFP for 3 yrs, and have lost 100 pounds, so they think they can be rude when giving advice. Or get mad when newbies post the same question over and over again. We were all newbies once.
Her point was that people like you complain about the advice givers while not actually giving advice yourselves. You have 63 posts in 18 months. I don't see how any of the words you just typed negates her point
So of those 63 posts, none of them were advice based? Like I already expressed, please go and check my posts.
All 63 posts could be bursting at the seams with more knowledge, wisdom and motivation than the world has ever known. But if everyone posted at such a low volume this site would be MySpace of fitness. No one said that you *never* post. Just not regularly enough that people can get advice and motivation at the time they need it
But initially you said the complaint was that I'm complaining instead of giving advice. I'm saying that is not so. Why is my number of "advice" posts being called into question? Thankfully there are many here that post regularly, who have answered a few of my own threads, and I thank them profusely for dedicating their time to someone they don't even know. Why do I need to post constantly? There are a lot of people already doing that. My lifestyle does not permit me to post regularly, I wish I could.
Also, I will again state that many do not post for fear of being attacked.
For example, my tv time is youtube. But I dare do not comment on youtube! Because I know how mean people can be.
So therefore if I don't post, there are no problems.0 -
I have become more of a lurker on the main MFP forums in the last year or so because of the climate here. I have found the greatest motivation and support on this site to come from friends or groups. I have never understood the hostility and meanness, especially on something that is as difficult as weight loss. If it was so easy, none of us would even be on MFP. If life never got in the way, ex. law school, then weight loss and fitness would not be the billion dollar industry it is. It is hard to lose weight. It is hard to stay committed. It is hard to workout everyday when you have other obligations. It is hard to change unhealthy habits you have had your entire life. This is why support and motivation is important, because your post could be the difference between someone making a change in their life for the better or continuing on a bad path.
Of course it would be great if everyone had a thick skin and if tough love worked like a a magic pill, but that is not the reality. These topics are common and they tend to bring out many of the posters who have made a habit of making others uncomfortable with their tough love.. But i say to those members, have you ever thought that maybe that person isn't ready for your help or missed the message based on your delivery. Attacking them, insulting them or making fun of them doesn't help anyone. So if help is what you truly want to offer then recognize that some posters will be sensitive, insecure, uniformed or just not interested and tough love or brutal honesty may not be the best course of action for everyone.
WHO?!? No, seriously, who in this thread is behaving in the forums in a way in which you disapprove? Cite an example. If it's me, use my post history if it helps. It's (admittedly stupidly) open for all the world to see. Years of posts...thousands upon thousands of them. If it is others to whom you're referring with the bolded comment, then please, give us an example.
Or is it as it so often seems to be the case an idea that you're raging against, and that "mean people" are a convenient scapegoat?
It's like the elusive toxins that are eliminated in a "cleanse" that otherwise wouldn't be eliminated while eating food. So many people are convinced there are, but when challenged, no one can provide the name of even one of them.
Are there people who misbehave on MFP? Absolutely. It would be naive to believe otherwise...but these claims such as "These topics are common and they tend to bring out many of the posters..." seem to me to be nothing more than baseless accusations against a nameless group with which I suspect those raging against them have some kind of personal vendetta as their primary motivation.
I have read this entire thread and you have posted numerous times. You have requested examples of your behavior in other threads. I am not familiar with you so I don't know what you do. No one can dispute that topics such as these are relatively common on MFP and have been around at least a weekly basis since I joined years ago. Clearly it is a problem. Chances are, if you can't acknowledge the problem exists, you are part of the problem. I post about the trials and tribulations of weight loss and none of that strikes a chord with you, just the part about posters making others uncomfortable. Perhaps you should remind yourself what made you decide to get on this fitness journey and all the setbacks you had along the way and pull from that the next time you want to offer advice to others. If am sure it will be better received and much more appreciated.
I've requested examples of *anyone's* behavior, not just my own. I'm offering my own posting history to try to make it easier for those hurling insults at the undefined "mean people" group to provide some bases for their claims.
You're not familiar with me in the forums, and yet you know what is wrong with how I post in the forums? And you have advice on ways I can improve on it? How do you know what impact I've had on others here? I mean, I know based on the numerous PMs I receive, but how do *you* know anything about it???
And you're completely unfamiliar with me yet you have assumptions about my "fitness journey"? Do you assume that everyone here is like you, thinks like you, has had similar experiences as you? How very presumptuous of you.
I am not being presumptuous. I know nothing about how you conduct yourself other than on this particular topic. You have spent pages debating that this behavior does not exist. It does. . Examples actually have been given over the last 8 pages, like the Law School post mentioned by the OP. You may not perceived the posts as rude or mean, but others have. Now you can respect the feelings of other posters or continue to disregard it. You may have been very successful at helping others and could receive countless PMs thanking you everyday, but if your words turned just one person off or made someone retreat who really needed to make a change, wouldn't you want to reevaluate your approach?
I have seen many say that they are being blunt and honest because they want to help. Well if you want to help, then that means you also need to be able to listen and understand where the people you help are coming from. They shouldn't repeatedly have to say that they feel attacked or insulted or uncomfortable for you to realize that a one size fits all approach is not going to work for everyone. Tact, manners, compassion doesn't cost a thing and could make a huge difference when trying to reach those who need help. Again, I don't know your journey, but a day probably came when you made a decision to make a change. I am sure it wasn't completely smooth sailing along the way. You may have had some trial and error. You likely had days when your commitment was tested. That understanding is what posters need. So if a newbie says law school made me fat, berating them for their bad choices is not helpful at all. I'm speaking in general terms now, since I don't know your post history. Telling that newbie, law school is stressful and time is limited, it is easy to make bad choices when you are dealing with limited time and stress. But if you want to make your health a priority, then you have to make a change by doing A, B,C,D......You can inspire or dictate, which one do you thing is more effective.
I love it when people with no experience think they can tell you how to do something better. When I have seen you in the forums responding to people EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. *then* you have room to lecture. This is like the person who has never stepped foot in a classroom waxing on about the problem with the modern day education system. Yea there are problems, you want to fix it, start by actively participating.
Actually I have 3 years experience in the MFP world as opposed to your one. I don't have to post thousands of times to understand the climate here. There was a time when I did post daily. There was a time when I did call out posts that I thought were negative and mean. I posted several kumbaya topics that were overtaken by the negative posters. I became annoyed and disenchanted with this site. I wonder how many others left the main forums for this reason. I have found support and positivity through my MFP friends and the group forums. The mean and snarky comments don't have to be directed at me, They aren't inspiring and do nothing to help me on my journey. All they do is feed the ego of a small few who would rather demean than offer support.
We're discussing participation in the forums, not time using the app. You want hand holding and kumbaya because that's what works for you and assume it's what every one else should want too. Guess what, nothing would make me drop this site faster, I find that sort of stuff saccharine and entirely nauseating. Luckily, I don't have to cater to your likes and wishes and you don't have to cater to mine. You don't like snark and don't want other people to be able to come in to your thread, don't use the public forums, make your own group. Public forums are open to everyone. Some of us on the public forums enjoy gifs and snark. Being lectured by holier than thou types gets pretty old really fast, but no matter how many times we complain we can't make you guys go away either. Freedom of speech sucks don't it? You can wag your finger all you want at this point all I'm hearing is someone blowing raspberries.
See it is pointless. The reason why so many complain about the main forums is because there are people who have no interest in truly being someone's fitness pal. Motivation and support gets a back seat to snark and gifs. They are mean because they are telling it like it is, But in reality, they are mean because they want to be mean. Yes we are free to express ourselves anyway we choose, but we could be better people. Many joined MFP because they wanted to be better. They are trying to get healthy and fit, but others have no respect for their fellow members or the fitness journey.
Yes, it's pointless. People that interact with a FL that's 6x the size of yours and have given 20x the amount of helpful advice you have truly have no interest in being anyone's fitness pal0 -
I have become more of a lurker on the main MFP forums in the last year or so because of the climate here. I have found the greatest motivation and support on this site to come from friends or groups. I have never understood the hostility and meanness, especially on something that is as difficult as weight loss. If it was so easy, none of us would even be on MFP. If life never got in the way, ex. law school, then weight loss and fitness would not be the billion dollar industry it is. It is hard to lose weight. It is hard to stay committed. It is hard to workout everyday when you have other obligations. It is hard to change unhealthy habits you have had your entire life. This is why support and motivation is important, because your post could be the difference between someone making a change in their life for the better or continuing on a bad path.
Of course it would be great if everyone had a thick skin and if tough love worked like a a magic pill, but that is not the reality. These topics are common and they tend to bring out many of the posters who have made a habit of making others uncomfortable with their tough love.. But i say to those members, have you ever thought that maybe that person isn't ready for your help or missed the message based on your delivery. Attacking them, insulting them or making fun of them doesn't help anyone. So if help is what you truly want to offer then recognize that some posters will be sensitive, insecure, uniformed or just not interested and tough love or brutal honesty may not be the best course of action for everyone.
WHO?!? No, seriously, who in this thread is behaving in the forums in a way in which you disapprove? Cite an example. If it's me, use my post history if it helps. It's (admittedly stupidly) open for all the world to see. Years of posts...thousands upon thousands of them. If it is others to whom you're referring with the bolded comment, then please, give us an example.
Or is it as it so often seems to be the case an idea that you're raging against, and that "mean people" are a convenient scapegoat?
It's like the elusive toxins that are eliminated in a "cleanse" that otherwise wouldn't be eliminated while eating food. So many people are convinced there are, but when challenged, no one can provide the name of even one of them.
Are there people who misbehave on MFP? Absolutely. It would be naive to believe otherwise...but these claims such as "These topics are common and they tend to bring out many of the posters..." seem to me to be nothing more than baseless accusations against a nameless group with which I suspect those raging against them have some kind of personal vendetta as their primary motivation.
I have read this entire thread and you have posted numerous times. You have requested examples of your behavior in other threads. I am not familiar with you so I don't know what you do. No one can dispute that topics such as these are relatively common on MFP and have been around at least a weekly basis since I joined years ago. Clearly it is a problem. Chances are, if you can't acknowledge the problem exists, you are part of the problem. I post about the trials and tribulations of weight loss and none of that strikes a chord with you, just the part about posters making others uncomfortable. Perhaps you should remind yourself what made you decide to get on this fitness journey and all the setbacks you had along the way and pull from that the next time you want to offer advice to others. If am sure it will be better received and much more appreciated.
I've requested examples of *anyone's* behavior, not just my own. I'm offering my own posting history to try to make it easier for those hurling insults at the undefined "mean people" group to provide some bases for their claims.
You're not familiar with me in the forums, and yet you know what is wrong with how I post in the forums? And you have advice on ways I can improve on it? How do you know what impact I've had on others here? I mean, I know based on the numerous PMs I receive, but how do *you* know anything about it???
And you're completely unfamiliar with me yet you have assumptions about my "fitness journey"? Do you assume that everyone here is like you, thinks like you, has had similar experiences as you? How very presumptuous of you.
I am not being presumptuous. I know nothing about how you conduct yourself other than on this particular topic. You have spent pages debating that this behavior does not exist. It does. . Examples actually have been given over the last 8 pages, like the Law School post mentioned by the OP. You may not perceived the posts as rude or mean, but others have. Now you can respect the feelings of other posters or continue to disregard it. You may have been very successful at helping others and could receive countless PMs thanking you everyday, but if your words turned just one person off or made someone retreat who really needed to make a change, wouldn't you want to reevaluate your approach?
I have seen many say that they are being blunt and honest because they want to help. Well if you want to help, then that means you also need to be able to listen and understand where the people you help are coming from. They shouldn't repeatedly have to say that they feel attacked or insulted or uncomfortable for you to realize that a one size fits all approach is not going to work for everyone. Tact, manners, compassion doesn't cost a thing and could make a huge difference when trying to reach those who need help. Again, I don't know your journey, but a day probably came when you made a decision to make a change. I am sure it wasn't completely smooth sailing along the way. You may have had some trial and error. You likely had days when your commitment was tested. That understanding is what posters need. So if a newbie says law school made me fat, berating them for their bad choices is not helpful at all. I'm speaking in general terms now, since I don't know your post history. Telling that newbie, law school is stressful and time is limited, it is easy to make bad choices when you are dealing with limited time and stress. But if you want to make your health a priority, then you have to make a change by doing A, B,C,D......You can inspire or dictate, which one do you thing is more effective.
I love it when people with no experience think they can tell you how to do something better. When I have seen you in the forums responding to people EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. *then* you have room to lecture. This is like the person who has never stepped foot in a classroom waxing on about the problem with the modern day education system. Yea there are problems, you want to fix it, start by actively participating.
Actually I have 3 years experience in the MFP world as opposed to your one. I don't have to post thousands of times to understand the climate here. There was a time when I did post daily. There was a time when I did call out posts that I thought were negative and mean. I posted several kumbaya topics that were overtaken by the negative posters. I became annoyed and disenchanted with this site. I wonder how many others left the main forums for this reason. I have found support and positivity through my MFP friends and the group forums. The mean and snarky comments don't have to be directed at me, They aren't inspiring and do nothing to help me on my journey. All they do is feed the ego of a small few who would rather demean than offer support.
We're discussing participation in the forums, not time using the app. You want hand holding and kumbaya because that's what works for you and assume it's what every one else should want too. Guess what, nothing would make me drop this site faster, I find that sort of stuff saccharine and entirely nauseating. Luckily, I don't have to cater to your likes and wishes and you don't have to cater to mine. You don't like snark and don't want other people to be able to come in to your thread, don't use the public forums, make your own group. Public forums are open to everyone. Some of us on the public forums enjoy gifs and snark. Being lectured by holier than thou types gets pretty old really fast, but no matter how many times we complain we can't make you guys go away either. Freedom of speech sucks don't it? You can wag your finger all you want at this point all I'm hearing is someone blowing raspberries.
See it is pointless. The reason why so many complain about the main forums is because there are people who have no interest in truly being someone's fitness pal. Motivation and support gets a back seat to snark and gifs. They are mean because they are telling it like it is, But in reality, they are mean because they want to be mean. Yes we are free to express ourselves anyway we choose, but we could be better people. Many joined MFP because they wanted to be better. They are trying to get healthy and fit, but others have no respect for their fellow members or the fitness journey.
I'm sorry, what were you saying? I was busy on another thread giving advice to someone about how to alleviate their sciatica pain so that they could continue heavy lifting. Oh right, mean and snarky. You want kumbaya, find other members who want kumbaya and go be friends with them. Quit trying to tell me about how I should act with my friends. We all love gifs and snark. Lots of new members who join every day also love gifs and snark. I can't know when I'm posting to a thread what each new member's preference will be and it's not my job to cater to the possible sensitivities of millions of different people. I'm not trying to be mean with any of the gifs or snark, that is not my intention, but how people interpret what they read on the internet is really NOT my problem.0 -
It's being pointed out before but bears repeating.
Everything single person complaining about rudeness or un supportiveness has been here a number of years and have very few posts. I have never seen a single one of them giving advice, information, support. Never helped out a newbie. Just pop up occasionally to moan about meanies.
Now the ones who are getting accused have thousands of posts. I see them every day giving fitness tips, advice on getting started, moral support, encouraging comments. Again and again, same people. For free. Because they want to help people.
If MFP has changed well then good
Umm, no.
To disprove that, you can look at the number of posts I currently have, and while doing so you can look at the posts I've replied to. You are making a very broad assumption.
And as said by other members in this thread, many lurk the forums and do not wish to participate after witnessing people being torn to shreds by "asking stupid questions," or not bending to the tune of others. There are no stupid questions.
Facts are facts. If you burn more than you consume you will lose weight. But HOW you lose that weight is up to debate. There are so many variables. What works for some may not work for others. Some say yes to the 1200 cals a day diet, some say no. I've seen people have success both ways.
There are elder mfp members who get annoyed at answering the same questions time and time again. I am a teacher by profession. That's what teachers do, new students come in, and you re-iterate the same knowledge year after year. Now even though I'm grown, there will be the 5 year old that will SWEAR to me 1+1=11. Can I make rude remarks to him because of that? No. When he does a test and fails to show the proper answer, can I stick a cat gif sticker on his paper? Patience, encouragement and time is needed to help guide him/her to the correct answer. With a stern hand, yes, but never in a way to make the student feel dumb, small etc etc.
If you are not willing to have the time and patience to explain something to someone, why bother trying at all?
And lastly, people will think what they will at the end of the day. If that student wants to think 1+1=11 for the rest of his life, so be it. I did my part, I tried, and sadly failed. That being said, he probably won't go very far. He'll figure that out for himself.
Very well said!!!!
I'm easily confused, but a page ago you were saying that if a single person was left unmoved by the way advice was given, that the person giving it should reconsider their approach no matter how many people were actually helped by their methods. Shouldn't this teacher stop teaching and reconsider her methods if that one kid still thinks 1+1=11?
Yes, as a teacher you are constantly changing your learning strategies. Difference, as a teacher, you have a year. On MFP, you have a couple posts in a forum then people move on. If they don't take your advice, you can't force them to. But as a teacher, you are walking into my classroom every day, and every day I will try to convince you 1+1=2. But see, the government allows me to do that. If you inbox someone every day telling them "You're wrong, I'm right!" I'm pretty sure that's harassment, lol.0 -
I have become more of a lurker on the main MFP forums in the last year or so because of the climate here. I have found the greatest motivation and support on this site to come from friends or groups. I have never understood the hostility and meanness, especially on something that is as difficult as weight loss. If it was so easy, none of us would even be on MFP. If life never got in the way, ex. law school, then weight loss and fitness would not be the billion dollar industry it is. It is hard to lose weight. It is hard to stay committed. It is hard to workout everyday when you have other obligations. It is hard to change unhealthy habits you have had your entire life. This is why support and motivation is important, because your post could be the difference between someone making a change in their life for the better or continuing on a bad path.
Of course it would be great if everyone had a thick skin and if tough love worked like a a magic pill, but that is not the reality. These topics are common and they tend to bring out many of the posters who have made a habit of making others uncomfortable with their tough love.. But i say to those members, have you ever thought that maybe that person isn't ready for your help or missed the message based on your delivery. Attacking them, insulting them or making fun of them doesn't help anyone. So if help is what you truly want to offer then recognize that some posters will be sensitive, insecure, uniformed or just not interested and tough love or brutal honesty may not be the best course of action for everyone.
WHO?!? No, seriously, who in this thread is behaving in the forums in a way in which you disapprove? Cite an example. If it's me, use my post history if it helps. It's (admittedly stupidly) open for all the world to see. Years of posts...thousands upon thousands of them. If it is others to whom you're referring with the bolded comment, then please, give us an example.
Or is it as it so often seems to be the case an idea that you're raging against, and that "mean people" are a convenient scapegoat?
It's like the elusive toxins that are eliminated in a "cleanse" that otherwise wouldn't be eliminated while eating food. So many people are convinced there are, but when challenged, no one can provide the name of even one of them.
Are there people who misbehave on MFP? Absolutely. It would be naive to believe otherwise...but these claims such as "These topics are common and they tend to bring out many of the posters..." seem to me to be nothing more than baseless accusations against a nameless group with which I suspect those raging against them have some kind of personal vendetta as their primary motivation.
I have read this entire thread and you have posted numerous times. You have requested examples of your behavior in other threads. I am not familiar with you so I don't know what you do. No one can dispute that topics such as these are relatively common on MFP and have been around at least a weekly basis since I joined years ago. Clearly it is a problem. Chances are, if you can't acknowledge the problem exists, you are part of the problem. I post about the trials and tribulations of weight loss and none of that strikes a chord with you, just the part about posters making others uncomfortable. Perhaps you should remind yourself what made you decide to get on this fitness journey and all the setbacks you had along the way and pull from that the next time you want to offer advice to others. If am sure it will be better received and much more appreciated.
I've requested examples of *anyone's* behavior, not just my own. I'm offering my own posting history to try to make it easier for those hurling insults at the undefined "mean people" group to provide some bases for their claims.
You're not familiar with me in the forums, and yet you know what is wrong with how I post in the forums? And you have advice on ways I can improve on it? How do you know what impact I've had on others here? I mean, I know based on the numerous PMs I receive, but how do *you* know anything about it???
And you're completely unfamiliar with me yet you have assumptions about my "fitness journey"? Do you assume that everyone here is like you, thinks like you, has had similar experiences as you? How very presumptuous of you.
I am not being presumptuous. I know nothing about how you conduct yourself other than on this particular topic. You have spent pages debating that this behavior does not exist. It does. . Examples actually have been given over the last 8 pages, like the Law School post mentioned by the OP. You may not perceived the posts as rude or mean, but others have. Now you can respect the feelings of other posters or continue to disregard it. You may have been very successful at helping others and could receive countless PMs thanking you everyday, but if your words turned just one person off or made someone retreat who really needed to make a change, wouldn't you want to reevaluate your approach?
I have seen many say that they are being blunt and honest because they want to help. Well if you want to help, then that means you also need to be able to listen and understand where the people you help are coming from. They shouldn't repeatedly have to say that they feel attacked or insulted or uncomfortable for you to realize that a one size fits all approach is not going to work for everyone. Tact, manners, compassion doesn't cost a thing and could make a huge difference when trying to reach those who need help. Again, I don't know your journey, but a day probably came when you made a decision to make a change. I am sure it wasn't completely smooth sailing along the way. You may have had some trial and error. You likely had days when your commitment was tested. That understanding is what posters need. So if a newbie says law school made me fat, berating them for their bad choices is not helpful at all. I'm speaking in general terms now, since I don't know your post history. Telling that newbie, law school is stressful and time is limited, it is easy to make bad choices when you are dealing with limited time and stress. But if you want to make your health a priority, then you have to make a change by doing A, B,C,D......You can inspire or dictate, which one do you thing is more effective.
I love it when people with no experience think they can tell you how to do something better. When I have seen you in the forums responding to people EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. *then* you have room to lecture. This is like the person who has never stepped foot in a classroom waxing on about the problem with the modern day education system. Yea there are problems, you want to fix it, start by actively participating.
Actually I have 3 years experience in the MFP world as opposed to your one. I don't have to post thousands of times to understand the climate here. There was a time when I did post daily. There was a time when I did call out posts that I thought were negative and mean. I posted several kumbaya topics that were overtaken by the negative posters. I became annoyed and disenchanted with this site. I wonder how many others left the main forums for this reason. I have found support and positivity through my MFP friends and the group forums. The mean and snarky comments don't have to be directed at me, They aren't inspiring and do nothing to help me on my journey. All they do is feed the ego of a small few who would rather demean than offer support.
We're discussing participation in the forums, not time using the app. You want hand holding and kumbaya because that's what works for you and assume it's what every one else should want too. Guess what, nothing would make me drop this site faster, I find that sort of stuff saccharine and entirely nauseating. Luckily, I don't have to cater to your likes and wishes and you don't have to cater to mine. You don't like snark and don't want other people to be able to come in to your thread, don't use the public forums, make your own group. Public forums are open to everyone. Some of us on the public forums enjoy gifs and snark. Being lectured by holier than thou types gets pretty old really fast, but no matter how many times we complain we can't make you guys go away either. Freedom of speech sucks don't it? You can wag your finger all you want at this point all I'm hearing is someone blowing raspberries.
See it is pointless. The reason why so many complain about the main forums is because there are people who have no interest in truly being someone's fitness pal. Motivation and support gets a back seat to snark and gifs. They are mean because they are telling it like it is, But in reality, they are mean because they want to be mean. Yes we are free to express ourselves anyway we choose, but we could be better people. Many joined MFP because they wanted to be better. They are trying to get healthy and fit, but others have no respect for their fellow members or the fitness journey.
I'm sorry, what were you saying? I was busy on another thread giving advice to someone about how to alleviate their sciatica pain so that they could continue heavy lifting. Oh right, mean and snarky. You want kumbaya, find other members who want kumbaya and go be friends with them. Quit trying to tell me about how I should act with my friends. We all love gifs and snark. Lots of new members who join every day also love gifs and snark. I can't know when I'm posting to a thread what each new member's preference will be and it's not my job to cater to the possible sensitivities of millions of different people. I'm not trying to be mean with any of the gifs or snark, that is not my intention, but how people interpret what they read on the internet is really NOT my problem.
That's it, your "friends." I call my friends the nastiest of words. Doesn't mean I should call someone I don't know an *******.
And no, you don't know people's preference, but generally speaking, I don't think it hurts to be cordial. When you become friends, you can then introduce the snarkiness?0 -
It's being pointed out before but bears repeating.
Everything single person complaining about rudeness or un supportiveness has been here a number of years and have very few posts. I have never seen a single one of them giving advice, information, support. Never helped out a newbie. Just pop up occasionally to moan about meanies.
Now the ones who are getting accused have thousands of posts. I see them every day giving fitness tips, advice on getting started, moral support, encouraging comments. Again and again, same people. For free. Because they want to help people.
If MFP has changed well then good
Umm, no.
To disprove that, you can look at the number of posts I currently have, and while doing so you can look at the posts I've replied to. You are making a very broad assumption.
And as said by other members in this thread, many lurk the forums and do not wish to participate after witnessing people being torn to shreds by "asking stupid questions," or not bending to the tune of others. There are no stupid questions.
Facts are facts. If you burn more than you consume you will lose weight. But HOW you lose that weight is up to debate. There are so many variables. What works for some may not work for others. Some say yes to the 1200 cals a day diet, some say no. I've seen people have success both ways.
There are elder mfp members who get annoyed at answering the same questions time and time again. I am a teacher by profession. That's what teachers do, new students come in, and you re-iterate the same knowledge year after year. Now even though I'm grown, there will be the 5 year old that will SWEAR to me 1+1=11. Can I make rude remarks to him because of that? No. When he does a test and fails to show the proper answer, can I stick a cat gif sticker on his paper? Patience, encouragement and time is needed to help guide him/her to the correct answer. With a stern hand, yes, but never in a way to make the student feel dumb, small etc etc.
If you are not willing to have the time and patience to explain something to someone, why bother trying at all?
And lastly, people will think what they will at the end of the day. If that student wants to think 1+1=11 for the rest of his life, so be it. I did my part, I tried, and sadly failed. That being said, he probably won't go very far. He'll figure that out for himself.
So, as a teacher, do you like listening to people who have never set foot in a classroom telling you about how awful and lazy teachers are, how they don't care about their students, how those who can do and those who can't teach? Ever think that the people who are on here every day and have been helping for years *might* feel the same way about getting lectured for how they do things?
People stereotype, so no, it does not bother me. I explain to them what I do in the classroom, and if they don't like what I have to say then I let my work be the example.
And the people that are on here and give great advice in good spirit shouldn't care about this thread, because they would know it does not apply to them. I think the ones that are guilty are the ones making all the fuss.
I posted a topic the other day about gaining weight and I got so many replies from elder mfpers. I thanked them, and I would like to take the time to thank all the elders that have been supportive and encouraging and have built mfp into what it is today. These comments about "mean" people do not apply to you.
However, I will not accept or support those who feel entitled because they've been on MFP for 3 yrs, and have lost 100 pounds, so they think they can be rude when giving advice. Or get mad when newbies post the same question over and over again. We were all newbies once.
Her point was that people like you complain about the advice givers while not actually giving advice yourselves. You have 63 posts in 18 months. I don't see how any of the words you just typed negates her point
So of those 63 posts, none of them were advice based? Like I already expressed, please go and check my posts.
All 63 posts could be bursting at the seams with more knowledge, wisdom and motivation than the world has ever known. But if everyone posted at such a low volume this site would be MySpace of fitness. No one said that you *never* post. Just not regularly enough that people can get advice and motivation at the time they need it
But initially you said the complaint was that I'm complaining instead of giving advice. I'm saying that is not so. Why is my number of "advice" posts being called into question? Thankfully there are many here that post regularly, who have answered a few of my own threads, and I thank them profusely for dedicating their time to someone they don't even know. Why do I need to post constantly? There are a lot of people already doing that. My lifestyle does not permit me to post regularly, I wish I could.
Also, I will again state that many do not post for fear of being attacked.
For example, my tv time is youtube. But I dare do not comment on youtube! Because I know how mean people can be.
So therefore if I don't post, there are no problems.
Okay, you kept bringing it up so I took a look at your first 63 posts. Aaaaaaand there's really not that much advice being given in there. Nothing offensive and no bad information either, but maybe 15 pieces of advice in 18 months .
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But that's neither here nor there. You don't have to give advice. No one does. Not me or you or anyone else. The point is twofold. One, no one is required to give advice but someone HAS to, or the site is dead. Two, the people that constantly complain about the way advice is delivered should spend some time constantly giving advice. If you don't have experience doing something it's ludicrous to state how much better it could be done. Try spending 10 mins a day helping people on this site. Not forever. Just say....a month. Is that fair? That should be time for 3 posts a day. 90 people helped by you by next month.
I think you'll be shocked at how poorly it goes. Not that you can't do it, but at how unreceptive people will be to your words. SaraSF2UK got called a mean person every day, for chrissakes. Heck, go check out that Loup person from a few pages back. Go a few pages into her history and see how contentious she gets with people.....right before she calls everyone else (or just me) mean, derisive trolls.
The point was that If you haven't done it yourself you really don't know what it requires to do it.0 -
I have become more of a lurker on the main MFP forums in the last year or so because of the climate here. I have found the greatest motivation and support on this site to come from friends or groups. I have never understood the hostility and meanness, especially on something that is as difficult as weight loss. If it was so easy, none of us would even be on MFP. If life never got in the way, ex. law school, then weight loss and fitness would not be the billion dollar industry it is. It is hard to lose weight. It is hard to stay committed. It is hard to workout everyday when you have other obligations. It is hard to change unhealthy habits you have had your entire life. This is why support and motivation is important, because your post could be the difference between someone making a change in their life for the better or continuing on a bad path.
Of course it would be great if everyone had a thick skin and if tough love worked like a a magic pill, but that is not the reality. These topics are common and they tend to bring out many of the posters who have made a habit of making others uncomfortable with their tough love.. But i say to those members, have you ever thought that maybe that person isn't ready for your help or missed the message based on your delivery. Attacking them, insulting them or making fun of them doesn't help anyone. So if help is what you truly want to offer then recognize that some posters will be sensitive, insecure, uniformed or just not interested and tough love or brutal honesty may not be the best course of action for everyone.
WHO?!? No, seriously, who in this thread is behaving in the forums in a way in which you disapprove? Cite an example. If it's me, use my post history if it helps. It's (admittedly stupidly) open for all the world to see. Years of posts...thousands upon thousands of them. If it is others to whom you're referring with the bolded comment, then please, give us an example.
Or is it as it so often seems to be the case an idea that you're raging against, and that "mean people" are a convenient scapegoat?
It's like the elusive toxins that are eliminated in a "cleanse" that otherwise wouldn't be eliminated while eating food. So many people are convinced there are, but when challenged, no one can provide the name of even one of them.
Are there people who misbehave on MFP? Absolutely. It would be naive to believe otherwise...but these claims such as "These topics are common and they tend to bring out many of the posters..." seem to me to be nothing more than baseless accusations against a nameless group with which I suspect those raging against them have some kind of personal vendetta as their primary motivation.
I have read this entire thread and you have posted numerous times. You have requested examples of your behavior in other threads. I am not familiar with you so I don't know what you do. No one can dispute that topics such as these are relatively common on MFP and have been around at least a weekly basis since I joined years ago. Clearly it is a problem. Chances are, if you can't acknowledge the problem exists, you are part of the problem. I post about the trials and tribulations of weight loss and none of that strikes a chord with you, just the part about posters making others uncomfortable. Perhaps you should remind yourself what made you decide to get on this fitness journey and all the setbacks you had along the way and pull from that the next time you want to offer advice to others. If am sure it will be better received and much more appreciated.
I've requested examples of *anyone's* behavior, not just my own. I'm offering my own posting history to try to make it easier for those hurling insults at the undefined "mean people" group to provide some bases for their claims.
You're not familiar with me in the forums, and yet you know what is wrong with how I post in the forums? And you have advice on ways I can improve on it? How do you know what impact I've had on others here? I mean, I know based on the numerous PMs I receive, but how do *you* know anything about it???
And you're completely unfamiliar with me yet you have assumptions about my "fitness journey"? Do you assume that everyone here is like you, thinks like you, has had similar experiences as you? How very presumptuous of you.
I am not being presumptuous. I know nothing about how you conduct yourself other than on this particular topic. You have spent pages debating that this behavior does not exist. It does. . Examples actually have been given over the last 8 pages, like the Law School post mentioned by the OP. You may not perceived the posts as rude or mean, but others have. Now you can respect the feelings of other posters or continue to disregard it. You may have been very successful at helping others and could receive countless PMs thanking you everyday, but if your words turned just one person off or made someone retreat who really needed to make a change, wouldn't you want to reevaluate your approach?
I have seen many say that they are being blunt and honest because they want to help. Well if you want to help, then that means you also need to be able to listen and understand where the people you help are coming from. They shouldn't repeatedly have to say that they feel attacked or insulted or uncomfortable for you to realize that a one size fits all approach is not going to work for everyone. Tact, manners, compassion doesn't cost a thing and could make a huge difference when trying to reach those who need help. Again, I don't know your journey, but a day probably came when you made a decision to make a change. I am sure it wasn't completely smooth sailing along the way. You may have had some trial and error. You likely had days when your commitment was tested. That understanding is what posters need. So if a newbie says law school made me fat, berating them for their bad choices is not helpful at all. I'm speaking in general terms now, since I don't know your post history. Telling that newbie, law school is stressful and time is limited, it is easy to make bad choices when you are dealing with limited time and stress. But if you want to make your health a priority, then you have to make a change by doing A, B,C,D......You can inspire or dictate, which one do you thing is more effective.
I love it when people with no experience think they can tell you how to do something better. When I have seen you in the forums responding to people EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. *then* you have room to lecture. This is like the person who has never stepped foot in a classroom waxing on about the problem with the modern day education system. Yea there are problems, you want to fix it, start by actively participating.
Actually I have 3 years experience in the MFP world as opposed to your one. I don't have to post thousands of times to understand the climate here. There was a time when I did post daily. There was a time when I did call out posts that I thought were negative and mean. I posted several kumbaya topics that were overtaken by the negative posters. I became annoyed and disenchanted with this site. I wonder how many others left the main forums for this reason. I have found support and positivity through my MFP friends and the group forums. The mean and snarky comments don't have to be directed at me, They aren't inspiring and do nothing to help me on my journey. All they do is feed the ego of a small few who would rather demean than offer support.
We're discussing participation in the forums, not time using the app. You want hand holding and kumbaya because that's what works for you and assume it's what every one else should want too. Guess what, nothing would make me drop this site faster, I find that sort of stuff saccharine and entirely nauseating. Luckily, I don't have to cater to your likes and wishes and you don't have to cater to mine. You don't like snark and don't want other people to be able to come in to your thread, don't use the public forums, make your own group. Public forums are open to everyone. Some of us on the public forums enjoy gifs and snark. Being lectured by holier than thou types gets pretty old really fast, but no matter how many times we complain we can't make you guys go away either. Freedom of speech sucks don't it? You can wag your finger all you want at this point all I'm hearing is someone blowing raspberries.
See it is pointless. The reason why so many complain about the main forums is because there are people who have no interest in truly being someone's fitness pal. Motivation and support gets a back seat to snark and gifs. They are mean because they are telling it like it is, But in reality, they are mean because they want to be mean. Yes we are free to express ourselves anyway we choose, but we could be better people. Many joined MFP because they wanted to be better. They are trying to get healthy and fit, but others have no respect for their fellow members or the fitness journey.
I'm sorry, what were you saying? I was busy on another thread giving advice to someone about how to alleviate their sciatica pain so that they could continue heavy lifting. Oh right, mean and snarky. You want kumbaya, find other members who want kumbaya and go be friends with them. Quit trying to tell me about how I should act with my friends. We all love gifs and snark. Lots of new members who join every day also love gifs and snark. I can't know when I'm posting to a thread what each new member's preference will be and it's not my job to cater to the possible sensitivities of millions of different people. I'm not trying to be mean with any of the gifs or snark, that is not my intention, but how people interpret what they read on the internet is really NOT my problem.
That's it, your "friends." I call my friends the nastiest of words. Doesn't mean I should call someone I don't know an *******.
And no, you don't know people's preference, but generally speaking, I don't think it hurts to be cordial. When you become friends, you can then introduce the snarkiness?
I could be as cordial as I wanted and there would still be someone who would take offense simply because they didn't like the content of what I had to say. I know this, because I've seen it happen, repeatedly. I'm not going to bend over backwards because someone *might* be offended by what I simply meant as a joke or silliness. I'm really just pretty goofy, same goes with most of my friends, but some people think that because we don't treat every topic with life or death seriousness that we're trying to be mean. I'm not being mean, I'm just being my goofy self, I can't help it when someone takes something in a way I didn't mean for them to. Yes, there are people on the forums that are harsher than I am, but I'm willing to assume they're just being themselves for the most part and are just really direct/blunt whatever, and not "mean". If I think someone is truly being mean, I say something.0 -
Someone needs to add +/- expansion tabs for quoted blocks, 10 nested quotes is tough on the eyes. If a MFP moderator reads this thread, you've done an outstanding job at removing offensive topics and inappropriate images from the forum! Thank you!
You may want to expand your disclaimer at the bottom of forum posts...
"Posts by members, moderators and admins should not be considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against accuracy. Newbie posts may be followed by 140 shaming GIFs."0 -
It's being pointed out before but bears repeating.
Everything single person complaining about rudeness or un supportiveness has been here a number of years and have very few posts. I have never seen a single one of them giving advice, information, support. Never helped out a newbie. Just pop up occasionally to moan about meanies.
Now the ones who are getting accused have thousands of posts. I see them every day giving fitness tips, advice on getting started, moral support, encouraging comments. Again and again, same people. For free. Because they want to help people.
If MFP has changed well then good
Umm, no.
To disprove that, you can look at the number of posts I currently have, and while doing so you can look at the posts I've replied to. You are making a very broad assumption.
And as said by other members in this thread, many lurk the forums and do not wish to participate after witnessing people being torn to shreds by "asking stupid questions," or not bending to the tune of others. There are no stupid questions.
Facts are facts. If you burn more than you consume you will lose weight. But HOW you lose that weight is up to debate. There are so many variables. What works for some may not work for others. Some say yes to the 1200 cals a day diet, some say no. I've seen people have success both ways.
There are elder mfp members who get annoyed at answering the same questions time and time again. I am a teacher by profession. That's what teachers do, new students come in, and you re-iterate the same knowledge year after year. Now even though I'm grown, there will be the 5 year old that will SWEAR to me 1+1=11. Can I make rude remarks to him because of that? No. When he does a test and fails to show the proper answer, can I stick a cat gif sticker on his paper? Patience, encouragement and time is needed to help guide him/her to the correct answer. With a stern hand, yes, but never in a way to make the student feel dumb, small etc etc.
If you are not willing to have the time and patience to explain something to someone, why bother trying at all?
And lastly, people will think what they will at the end of the day. If that student wants to think 1+1=11 for the rest of his life, so be it. I did my part, I tried, and sadly failed. That being said, he probably won't go very far. He'll figure that out for himself.
Very well said!!!!
I'm easily confused, but a page ago you were saying that if a single person was left unmoved by the way advice was given, that the person giving it should reconsider their approach no matter how many people were actually helped by their methods. Shouldn't this teacher stop teaching and reconsider her methods if that one kid still thinks 1+1=11?
Yes, as a teacher you are constantly changing your learning strategies. Difference, as a teacher, you have a year. On MFP, you have a couple posts in a forum then people move on. If they don't take your advice, you can't force them to. But as a teacher, you are walking into my classroom every day, and every day I will try to convince you 1+1=2. But see, the government allows me to do that. If you inbox someone every day telling them "You're wrong, I'm right!" I'm pretty sure that's harassment, lol.
I don't disagree with you here. I was just asking the other poster for a clarification of when her No Child Left Behind policy is in effect and when it isn't0 -
It's being pointed out before but bears repeating.
Now the ones who are getting accused have thousands of posts. I see them every day giving fitness tips, advice on getting started, moral support, encouraging comments. Again and again, same people. For free. Because they want to help people.
If MFP has changed well then good
Umm, no.
To disprove that, you can look at the number of posts I currently have, and while doing so you can look at the posts I've replied to. You are making a very broad assumption.
And as said by other members in this thread, many lurk the forums and do not wish to participate after witnessing people being torn to shreds by "asking stupid questions," or not bending to the tune of others. There are no stupid questions.
Facts are facts. If you burn more than you consume you will lose weight. But HOW you lose that weight is up to debate. There are so many variables. What works for some may not work for others. Some say yes to the 1200 cals a day diet, some say no. I've seen people have success both ways.
There are elder mfp members who get annoyed at answering the same questions time and time again. I am a teacher by profession. That's what teachers do, new students come in, and you re-iterate the same knowledge year after year. Now even though I'm grown, there will be the 5 year old that will SWEAR to me 1+1=11. Can I make rude remarks to him because of that? No. When he does a test and fails to show the proper answer, can I stick a cat gif sticker on his paper? Patience, encouragement and time is needed to help guide him/her to the correct answer. With a stern hand, yes, but never in a way to make the student feel dumb, small etc etc.
If you are not willing to have the time and patience to explain something to someone, why bother trying at all?
And lastly, people will think what they will at the end of the day. If that student wants to think 1+1=11 for the rest of his life, so be it. I did my part, I tried, and sadly failed. That being said, he probably won't go very far. He'll figure that out for himself.
So, as a teacher, do you like listening to people who have never set foot in a classroom telling you about how awful and lazy teachers are, how they don't care about their students, how those who can do and those who can't teach? Ever think that the people who are on here every day and have been helping for years *might* feel the same way about getting lectured for how they do things?
People stereotype, so no, it does not bother me. I explain to them what I do in the classroom, and if they don't like what I have to say then I let my work be the example.
And the people that are on here and give great advice in good spirit shouldn't care about this thread, because they would know it does not apply to them. I think the ones that are guilty are the ones making all the fuss.
I posted a topic the other day about gaining weight and I got so many replies from elder mfpers. I thanked them, and I would like to take the time to thank all the elders that have been supportive and encouraging and have built mfp into what it is today. These comments about "mean" people do not apply to you.
However, I will not accept or support those who feel entitled because they've been on MFP for 3 yrs, and have lost 100 pounds, so they think they can be rude when giving advice. Or get mad when newbies post the same question over and over again. We were all newbies once.
Her point was that people like you complain about the advice givers while not actually giving advice yourselves. You have 63 posts in 18 months. I don't see how any of the words you just typed negates her point
So of those 63 posts, none of them were advice based? Like I already expressed, please go and check my posts.
All 63 posts could be bursting at the seams with more knowledge, wisdom and motivation than the world has ever known. But if everyone posted at such a low volume this site would be MySpace of fitness. No one said that you *never* post. Just not regularly enough that people can get advice and motivation at the time they need it
But initially you said the complaint was that I'm complaining instead of giving advice. I'm saying that is not so. Why is my number of "advice" posts being called into question? Thankfully there are many here that post regularly, who have answered a few of my own threads, and I thank them profusely for dedicating their time to someone they don't even know. Why do I need to post constantly? There are a lot of people already doing that. My lifestyle does not permit me to post regularly, I wish I could.
Also, I will again state that many do not post for fear of being attacked.
For example, my tv time is youtube. But I dare do not comment on youtube! Because I know how mean people can be.
So therefore if I don't post, there are no problems.
Okay, you kept bringing it up so I took a look at your first 63 posts. Aaaaaaand there's really not that much advice being given in there. Nothing offensive and no bad information either, but maybe 15 pieces of advice in 18 months .
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But that's neither here nor there. You don't have to give advice. No one does. Not me or you or anyone else. The point is twofold. One, no one is required to give advice but someone HAS to, or the site is dead. Two, the people that constantly complain about the way advice is delivered should spend some time constantly giving advice. If you don't have experience doing something it's ludicrous to state how much better it could be done. Try spending 10 mins a day helping people on this site. Not forever. Just say....a month. Is that fair? That should be time for 3 posts a day. 90 people helped by you by next month.
I think you'll be shocked at how poorly it goes. Not that you can't do it, but at how unreceptive people will be to your words. SaraSF2UK got called a mean person every day, for chrissakes. Heck, go check out that Loup person from a few pages back. Go a few pages into her history and see how contentious she gets with people.....right before she calls everyone else (or just me) mean, derisive trolls.
The point was that If you haven't done it yourself you really don't know what it requires to do it.
But I do have experience giving advice, given not so much on mfp. Maybe I'll change that, but I can only give advice on things I know about. The reason I only have 15 pieces of advice (by your count, never really have gone through my posts) is because I do not wish to contribute to things to which I have no knowledge about. That's why I'm a lurker on mfp and not a poster most of the times. I like to read to gain knowledge.
Anyhow, I understand what you're saying, but my point is directed to the post:
Everything single person complaining about rudeness or un supportiveness has been here a number of years and have very few posts. I have never seen a single one of them giving advice, information, support. Never helped out a newbie. Just pop up occasionally to moan about meanies.
I'm just saying that's not true for everyone.
But in regards to trolling... are you a troll? Trololololol
You seem nice enough. You have an opinion, but you know what they say about opinons. They're like a$******. Everybody has one! And I think we went back and forth a bit, but I don't think you're mean. However, by reading your profile I would assume otherwise.0 -
I have become more of a lurker on the main MFP forums in the last year or so because of the climate here. I have found the greatest motivation and support on this site to come from friends or groups. I have never understood the hostility and meanness, especially on something that is as difficult as weight loss. If it was so easy, none of us would even be on MFP. If life never got in the way, ex. law school, then weight loss and fitness would not be the billion dollar industry it is. It is hard to lose weight. It is hard to stay committed. It is hard to workout everyday when you have other obligations. It is hard to change unhealthy habits you have had your entire life. This is why support and motivation is important, because your post could be the difference between someone making a change in their life for the better or continuing on a bad path.
Of course it would be great if everyone had a thick skin and if tough love worked like a a magic pill, but that is not the reality. These topics are common and they tend to bring out many of the posters who have made a habit of making others uncomfortable with their tough love.. But i say to those members, have you ever thought that maybe that person isn't ready for your help or missed the message based on your delivery. Attacking them, insulting them or making fun of them doesn't help anyone. So if help is what you truly want to offer then recognize that some posters will be sensitive, insecure, uniformed or just not interested and tough love or brutal honesty may not be the best course of action for everyone.
WHO?!? No, seriously, who in this thread is behaving in the forums in a way in which you disapprove? Cite an example. If it's me, use my post history if it helps. It's (admittedly stupidly) open for all the world to see. Years of posts...thousands upon thousands of them. If it is others to whom you're referring with the bolded comment, then please, give us an example.
Or is it as it so often seems to be the case an idea that you're raging against, and that "mean people" are a convenient scapegoat?
It's like the elusive toxins that are eliminated in a "cleanse" that otherwise wouldn't be eliminated while eating food. So many people are convinced there are, but when challenged, no one can provide the name of even one of them.
Are there people who misbehave on MFP? Absolutely. It would be naive to believe otherwise...but these claims such as "These topics are common and they tend to bring out many of the posters..." seem to me to be nothing more than baseless accusations against a nameless group with which I suspect those raging against them have some kind of personal vendetta as their primary motivation.
I have read this entire thread and you have posted numerous times. You have requested examples of your behavior in other threads. I am not familiar with you so I don't know what you do. No one can dispute that topics such as these are relatively common on MFP and have been around at least a weekly basis since I joined years ago. Clearly it is a problem. Chances are, if you can't acknowledge the problem exists, you are part of the problem. I post about the trials and tribulations of weight loss and none of that strikes a chord with you, just the part about posters making others uncomfortable. Perhaps you should remind yourself what made you decide to get on this fitness journey and all the setbacks you had along the way and pull from that the next time you want to offer advice to others. If am sure it will be better received and much more appreciated.
I've requested examples of *anyone's* behavior, not just my own. I'm offering my own posting history to try to make it easier for those hurling insults at the undefined "mean people" group to provide some bases for their claims.
You're not familiar with me in the forums, and yet you know what is wrong with how I post in the forums? And you have advice on ways I can improve on it? How do you know what impact I've had on others here? I mean, I know based on the numerous PMs I receive, but how do *you* know anything about it???
And you're completely unfamiliar with me yet you have assumptions about my "fitness journey"? Do you assume that everyone here is like you, thinks like you, has had similar experiences as you? How very presumptuous of you.
I am not being presumptuous. I know nothing about how you conduct yourself other than on this particular topic. You have spent pages debating that this behavior does not exist. It does. . Examples actually have been given over the last 8 pages, like the Law School post mentioned by the OP. You may not perceived the posts as rude or mean, but others have. Now you can respect the feelings of other posters or continue to disregard it. You may have been very successful at helping others and could receive countless PMs thanking you everyday, but if your words turned just one person off or made someone retreat who really needed to make a change, wouldn't you want to reevaluate your approach?
I have seen many say that they are being blunt and honest because they want to help. Well if you want to help, then that means you also need to be able to listen and understand where the people you help are coming from. They shouldn't repeatedly have to say that they feel attacked or insulted or uncomfortable for you to realize that a one size fits all approach is not going to work for everyone. Tact, manners, compassion doesn't cost a thing and could make a huge difference when trying to reach those who need help. Again, I don't know your journey, but a day probably came when you made a decision to make a change. I am sure it wasn't completely smooth sailing along the way. You may have had some trial and error. You likely had days when your commitment was tested. That understanding is what posters need. So if a newbie says law school made me fat, berating them for their bad choices is not helpful at all. I'm speaking in general terms now, since I don't know your post history. Telling that newbie, law school is stressful and time is limited, it is easy to make bad choices when you are dealing with limited time and stress. But if you want to make your health a priority, then you have to make a change by doing A, B,C,D......You can inspire or dictate, which one do you thing is more effective.
I love it when people with no experience think they can tell you how to do something better. When I have seen you in the forums responding to people EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. *then* you have room to lecture. This is like the person who has never stepped foot in a classroom waxing on about the problem with the modern day education system. Yea there are problems, you want to fix it, start by actively participating.
Actually I have 3 years experience in the MFP world as opposed to your one. I don't have to post thousands of times to understand the climate here. There was a time when I did post daily. There was a time when I did call out posts that I thought were negative and mean. I posted several kumbaya topics that were overtaken by the negative posters. I became annoyed and disenchanted with this site. I wonder how many others left the main forums for this reason. I have found support and positivity through my MFP friends and the group forums. The mean and snarky comments don't have to be directed at me, They aren't inspiring and do nothing to help me on my journey. All they do is feed the ego of a small few who would rather demean than offer support.
We're discussing participation in the forums, not time using the app. You want hand holding and kumbaya because that's what works for you and assume it's what every one else should want too. Guess what, nothing would make me drop this site faster, I find that sort of stuff saccharine and entirely nauseating. Luckily, I don't have to cater to your likes and wishes and you don't have to cater to mine. You don't like snark and don't want other people to be able to come in to your thread, don't use the public forums, make your own group. Public forums are open to everyone. Some of us on the public forums enjoy gifs and snark. Being lectured by holier than thou types gets pretty old really fast, but no matter how many times we complain we can't make you guys go away either. Freedom of speech sucks don't it? You can wag your finger all you want at this point all I'm hearing is someone blowing raspberries.
See it is pointless. The reason why so many complain about the main forums is because there are people who have no interest in truly being someone's fitness pal. Motivation and support gets a back seat to snark and gifs. They are mean because they are telling it like it is, But in reality, they are mean because they want to be mean. Yes we are free to express ourselves anyway we choose, but we could be better people. Many joined MFP because they wanted to be better. They are trying to get healthy and fit, but others have no respect for their fellow members or the fitness journey.
I'm sorry, what were you saying? I was busy on another thread giving advice to someone about how to alleviate their sciatica pain so that they could continue heavy lifting. Oh right, mean and snarky. You want kumbaya, find other members who want kumbaya and go be friends with them. Quit trying to tell me about how I should act with my friends. We all love gifs and snark. Lots of new members who join every day also love gifs and snark. I can't know when I'm posting to a thread what each new member's preference will be and it's not my job to cater to the possible sensitivities of millions of different people. I'm not trying to be mean with any of the gifs or snark, that is not my intention, but how people interpret what they read on the internet is really NOT my problem.
That's it, your "friends." I call my friends the nastiest of words. Doesn't mean I should call someone I don't know an *******.
And no, you don't know people's preference, but generally speaking, I don't think it hurts to be cordial. When you become friends, you can then introduce the snarkiness?
I could be as cordial as I wanted and there would still be someone who would take offense simply because they didn't like the content of what I had to say. I know this, because I've seen it happen, repeatedly. I'm not going to bend over backwards because someone *might* be offended by what I simply meant as a joke or silliness. I'm really just pretty goofy, same goes with most of my friends, but some people think that because we don't treat every topic with life or death seriousness that we're trying to be mean. I'm not being mean, I'm just being my goofy self, I can't help it when someone takes something in a way I didn't mean for them to. Yes, there are people on the forums that are harsher than I am, but I'm willing to assume they're just being themselves for the most part and are just really direct/blunt whatever, and not "mean". If I think someone is truly being mean, I say something.
Those people can buzz off. I agree, that is not your fault.
But there are people on MFP that are straight up rude, whether you are one of them I don't know. So far I don't believe so, but I can see how your words can be perceived as such. I think the OP meant like the straight up rude people. And full disclosure, the people that are rude that I've witnessed usually get banned. But sometimes they lurk on the blogs.0 -
every day ...it seems we're wasting away.It's all the same.....only the names will change.
Sincerely, thank you for the ear worm!0 -
Die thread, die!!!!!!!!!!!!0
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i would take advice from s/o like you.I can't add much to what you said b/c you said it so well. Just want to add something, I hope I never forget where I came from. I just don't see how making fun of people is being helpful.I have become more of a lurker on the main MFP forums in the last year or so because of the climate here. I have found the greatest motivation and support on this site to come from friends or groups. I have never understood the hostility and meanness, especially on something that is as difficult as weight loss. If it was so easy, none of us would even be on MFP. If life never got in the way, ex. law school, then weight loss and fitness would not be the billion dollar industry it is. It is hard to lose weight. It is hard to stay committed. It is hard to workout everyday when you have other obligations. It is hard to change unhealthy habits you have had your entire life. This is why support and motivation is important, because your post could be the difference between someone making a change in their life for the better or continuing on a bad path.
Of course it would be great if everyone had a thick skin and if tough love worked like a a magic pill, but that is not the reality. These topics are common and they tend to bring out many of the posters who have made a habit of making others uncomfortable with their tough love.. But i say to those members, have you ever thought that maybe that person isn't ready for your help or missed the message based on your delivery. Attacking them, insulting them or making fun of them doesn't help anyone. So if help is what you truly want to offer then recognize that some posters will be sensitive, insecure, uniformed or just not interested and tough love or brutal honesty may not be the best course of action for everyone.
WHO?!? No, seriously, who in this thread is behaving in the forums in a way in which you disapprove? Cite an example. If it's me, use my post history if it helps. It's (admittedly stupidly) open for all the world to see. Years of posts...thousands upon thousands of them. If it is others to whom you're referring with the bolded comment, then please, give us an example.
Or is it as it so often seems to be the case an idea that you're raging against, and that "mean people" are a convenient scapegoat?
It's like the elusive toxins that are eliminated in a "cleanse" that otherwise wouldn't be eliminated while eating food. So many people are convinced there are, but when challenged, no one can provide the name of even one of them.
Are there people who misbehave on MFP? Absolutely. It would be naive to believe otherwise...but these claims such as "These topics are common and they tend to bring out many of the posters..." seem to me to be nothing more than baseless accusations against a nameless group with which I suspect those raging against them have some kind of personal vendetta as their primary motivation.
I have read this entire thread and you have posted numerous times. You have requested examples of your behavior in other threads. I am not familiar with you so I don't know what you do. No one can dispute that topics such as these are relatively common on MFP and have been around at least a weekly basis since I joined years ago. Clearly it is a problem. Chances are, if you can't acknowledge the problem exists, you are part of the problem. I post about the trials and tribulations of weight loss and none of that strikes a chord with you, just the part about posters making others uncomfortable. Perhaps you should remind yourself what made you decide to get on this fitness journey and all the setbacks you had along the way and pull from that the next time you want to offer advice to others. If am sure it will be better received and much more appreciated.0 -
Frankly I don't care if some people dislike my tone. I generally consider those who let their feels get hurt over the internet too weak in personality to be worth while anyway and too wishy washy to have been interested in anything I had to say anyway. Frankly I find the insistence that people must be cordial (as determined by someone else's standards and not my own) to be rather disgusting.
I'll just keep on being helpful as normal. The full inbox, daily friend requests, and heartfelt responses to my blogs make me feel like there are more than enough people who hear what I have to say as I say it without me having to speak to them like I speak to the toddlers at my daycare. You (general you) might not like it but plenty of people do so why would I change? I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to pat your head and give you a treat without trying to shame me into being 'cordial'.
Tl;DR: The gifs will continue until morale is totally broken down, your emotional weakness isn't my concern.
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So you are actively trying to break someone's morale as stated by you and don't see how that is perceived as mean?
Other's "emotional weaknesses" are not your problem? So that means I can tell someone over the internet "go kill yourself," and if they do, I have no part in the blame because they are emotionally weak? So if you cry over 'x' and I don't cry over 'x' can I call you emotionally weak?
Umm, ok...0 -
So you are actively trying to break someone's morale as stated by you and don't see how that is perceived as mean?
Other's "emotional weaknesses" are not your problem? So that means I can tell someone over the internet "go kill yourself," and if they do, I have no part in the blame because they are emotionally weak? So if you cry over 'x' and I don't cry over 'x' can I call you emotionally weak?
Umm, ok...
I didn't say anything about not being mean.
If you tell someone on MFP to go kill themselves and they do it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with them. Do you really live your life in such a manner that you tiptoe around everyone in fear that something you say might prompt some absurd emotional response? Because that sounds overwhelming exhausting. I'm not in for exhausting.
You could certainly call me emotionally weak if you wanted. Doesn't matter to me any.
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Yes, I see it, too. It's kind of the essence of this thread.
You are not the only one who sees it. That brand of hypocrisy is rampant in these threads.
My only wish is that I had any idea what you are talking about.
Keep on judging tho
Sorry. As much as you'd like to make it so, this thread isn't about you. Feel free to keep playing the victim, though.
Rather than being the change you wish to see in others...
...you've become the very thing that you were complaining about in others.
I suspect you won't see it that way, because in your mind, your behavior is justified...
...however, I trust that others see at least what appears to me to be rather blatant hypocrisy.
Fascinating, really.
The "nice" people can be however rude they like and their behaviour is justified by their "cause", whereas the "mean" people, who in some case have thousands of constructive comments on their back, get slapped on the fingers for not behaving the way the "nice" people are behaving. Thank god for that, at least there's less of this passive-aggressive, holier than thou crap in the forums.0 -
So just saw this thread, just finished reading all of it.
The hypocrisy of @Loup was a little extreme.
I am trying to figure out why it is anyone's job to coddle a grown adult. Many answer and try to help people here, in the last day I actually think I pretty much posted the same advice to numerous threads. I was friendly, helpful, thanked and not even annoyed (did find it a little funny, I kept seeming to type the same words in a row). Most of the posts that people find mean are not even directed at the OP of the thread, it is normally at those that post nonsense and want to argue that math and science are irrelevent and wrong. Normally those mean posts are for if a new person comes along they can see facts and the reasons that the other statements are false and unfounded.
Most will also offer encouragement but will not tell a grown adult they are without fault. That would be harmful and feeding into a false belief that is holding the person back.
As for the poster stating she can not make a smartass reply to a 5 year old not knowing 1+1=2.....big difference a 5 year old is not responsible for the knowledge he/she has and is limited by the adults in his/her life. A grown adult on an internet forum should understand what the link that says search is for. I never take this frustration out on a poster. I do understand human nature makes people feel that their situations are unique and that help from another thread may not work for them.....but the people that continually have a complaint on how advice is given and how those that spread false information are handled, you try repeating yourself multiple times when all someone had to do was look down a few topics. The people that give advice mean well and want to help, all they can offer is knowledge and an opinion. The person still needs to accept responsibility for their part.
For those saying handle people with kids gloves, and for others to express how it really isn't their fault. People with issues got where they are by making excuses, making excuses for them is not helpful...it is enabling. You do not tell an alcoholic, its OK it wasn't your fault work can be stressful, I understand you need a binge day once a week. No you tell them they need help, and when they are ready you help in anyway you can. It is not someone's job to make anybody ready to change their life or to make them feel better about their poor decisions. Personally I do not berate mistakes, but I do call out excuses and false facts.
@Loup I have many of the "mean" people on my FL, I saw this thread because it was on my feed. You have been insulting and rude to many, you cloak yourself in a self serving victim mentality. Your statements are not informative, and honestly they are just mean. You sound like someone who feels justified behaving poorly and insulting others for every misconceived slight you feel you ever had. It is like the kid that gets bullied some and as an adult is rude and judgmental to all others and feels justified because once someone was mean to them. Get over it. You are insulting on this thread some very helpful, funny, knowledgeable, and inspiring members. One day I hope to be as "mean" as them. For others and the OP, yes there are some trouble makers. If you take issue with their behavior or a precieved mean post then state it then, not in another thread where they may not be able to defend themselves and also making broad and sweeping judgments of the people on here the most. We are adults, if I say something and you feel insulted, say something. If I meant to insult you I will state it clearly, if not I will apologize that you took it that way and try to explain what I meant. If you are insulted by facts, sorry nothing I can do about that. From my knowledge anyone perceived as mean here, will not take issue if confronted over someone feeling insulted, they will state what their intent was. @Loup, I don't find my remarks rude or mean to you. Mostly because I feel you will twist them and make they self serving to show how once again you are a victim. My statements regarding what I saw in this thread are purely my personal opinions from reading every post in this thread. You have been the only one to call names, you are the only one that personally attacked others, you made broad generalizations about a large group of people and you just sounded condescending.
Also GIFs are to relieve tension and are normally used when the voices of reason are being ignored anyways.
As for the law school thread, I never saw it. Depending upon the OP of that threads attitude is how I would have responded. If the OP sounded like he/she was making excuses...I would have said that they had to own up to their part before a change could happen otherwise external forces will always dictate their health, happiness and ability to make decisions for themself. If the OP mentioned stress but took ownership that the way they dealt with the stress was destructive, then I would have offered my opinion on ideas that may have helped.
The world does not revolve around you, me or anyone else. There are too many people to make everyone happy. Nobody is responsible for your happiness, self love or emotions but YOU!0 -
Tried to edit the previous for being too long and wanted to add this.....
@Loup I am a little confused on your stance in this thread, I read some of your posting history. This stood out....Spirited discussion is not "fighting." I have no intention of fighting, but I do feel free to express my opinion on an open forum. My opinion will not always agree with other people's opinions. I'm absolutely fine with civil discourse when people don't come out with snarky or rude or sarcastic responses. I have no issue with responding in kind when confronted with snark or rudeness or sarcasm. Them's the breaks.
The majority of your posts are "spirited discussions", the marotiy of the time you are condescending and rude. You justify your behavior by stating " you did it first " like a child would. Two wrongs do not make a right. Even your posts that your advice was sound in, were extremely condescending, defensive and aggressive... even if you seem to prefer passive aggression. I have some of the bluntest MFPers on my FL, but I would have to say the behavior that your posting history shows is appalling.... and that is coming from someone willing to own when she is "mean".
I do not find the quotes text mean, but it is everything you seem to comment against in this thread.
Sorry for the long winded posts.0 -
The Law school thread I think is... a terrible example of meanness on this site. At least, up to the OP's second post to the thread where he used humor to categorize all the responses and thank everyone alike. I don't know what happened to the thread after that. He was asked some excellent questions. If you're gonna blame law school for weight gain, how about working 100 hours per week as a first year? How will you be successful then? Owning up to our actions has often been the first step in many of our weight loss journeys. What is wrong with helping the OP get there? Weight loss isn't easy? Of course it's hard!! And sometimes that means having to be butt sore a little bit when you look at your own actions in the mirror and evaluate how you got here. How can you do things differently and avoid the same mistakes in the future.
I have someone on my friend list, I know exactly what she's doing wrong and the changes she can make to lose weight. However I don't want to jeopardize a long term relationship we have and therefore have not said anything. Maybe she'll figure it out on her own in 3 or 10 years. Some of you complained about folks that go into hCG, I want to lose 50 lbs of weight in two months threads, etc and post bluntly. Know what I do when I see most of those? Roll my eyes and move onto the next thread. Think HARD about who the mean posters really are. And yes those of you with few [advice] post counts who know how it's done but have not shown it by your own compassionate helpful posts, you fall in the same bucket, too.
Agree with some of the posters about kid gloves. You're really going to say we should be somebody's therapy on this site?? I mean come on, it's free but you get what you pay for, right? :bigsmile:
Finally, I don't think [many of] the veterans are tired of the same posts over and over again. In fact, it seems they go in there repeatedly to answer questions0 -
It's being pointed out before but bears repeating.
Everything single person complaining about rudeness or un supportiveness has been here a number of years and have very few posts. I have never seen a single one of them giving advice, information, support. Never helped out a newbie. Just pop up occasionally to moan about meanies.
Now the ones who are getting accused have thousands of posts. I see them every day giving fitness tips, advice on getting started, moral support, encouraging comments. Again and again, same people. For free. Because they want to help people.
If MFP has changed well then good
Umm, no.
To disprove that, you can look at the number of posts I currently have, and while doing so you can look at the posts I've replied to. You are making a very broad assumption.
And as said by other members in this thread, many lurk the forums and do not wish to participate after witnessing people being torn to shreds by "asking stupid questions," or not bending to the tune of others. There are no stupid questions.
Facts are facts. If you burn more than you consume you will lose weight. But HOW you lose that weight is up to debate. There are so many variables. What works for some may not work for others. Some say yes to the 1200 cals a day diet, some say no. I've seen people have success both ways.
There are elder mfp members who get annoyed at answering the same questions time and time again. I am a teacher by profession. That's what teachers do, new students come in, and you re-iterate the same knowledge year after year. Now even though I'm grown, there will be the 5 year old that will SWEAR to me 1+1=11. Can I make rude remarks to him because of that? No. When he does a test and fails to show the proper answer, can I stick a cat gif sticker on his paper? Patience, encouragement and time is needed to help guide him/her to the correct answer. With a stern hand, yes, but never in a way to make the student feel dumb, small etc etc.
If you are not willing to have the time and patience to explain something to someone, why bother trying at all?
And lastly, people will think what they will at the end of the day. If that student wants to think 1+1=11 for the rest of his life, so be it. I did my part, I tried, and sadly failed. That being said, he probably won't go very far. He'll figure that out for himself.
So while we're in here discussing how to improve posters' posts, who do so out of their own good will are obviously not paid, should we talk about all the lousy teachers who are paid? I've never taught grade school, but there are so many mean teachers who obviously don't care about their students. I mean, I'm sure you're the perfectly patient teacher, right? :flowerforyou:0 -
You can be supportive without being fake-'nice'. You can be a motivator without having to rip an OP a new one. You can ask questions or make observations without burning someone to the ground.
We all know we got overweight because we made bad choices. We're here to change that. Being nasty to someone who is finally ready to change their life around doesn't help at all.0 -
You can be supportive without being fake-'nice'. You can be a motivator without having to rip an OP a new one. You can ask questions or make observations without burning someone to the ground.
We all know we got overweight because we made bad choices. We're here to change that. Being nasty to someone who is finally ready to change their life around doesn't help at all.
Would you like some advice?0 -
You can be supportive without being fake-'nice'. You can be a motivator without having to rip an OP a new one. You can ask questions or make observations without burning someone to the ground.
We all know we got overweight because we made bad choices. We're here to change that. Being nasty to someone who is finally ready to change their life around doesn't help at all.
Could someone explain exactly why saying "Law school didn't make you fat, your choices did" is nasty?
I also assume in your next fifteen posts over the next year and half you'll show us how to do what you've explained via your own helpful posts???0 -
So you are actively trying to break someone's morale as stated by you and don't see how that is perceived as mean?
Other's "emotional weaknesses" are not your problem? So that means I can tell someone over the internet "go kill yourself," and if they do, I have no part in the blame because they are emotionally weak? So if you cry over 'x' and I don't cry over 'x' can I call you emotionally weak?
Umm, ok...
I think what she's saying is that trying to respond to posted questions in a manner that would *never offend anyone* is folly. There's someone who will get offended by anything. Hell, I can think of dozens of threads where the OP was thankful for the brutally honest responses because the finally realized what they were doing wrong....but someone lurking the thread was offended for them and sent reports to the mods. I'll get a thank you and a FR from the OP and an hour later get a warning from the mods.
There's nothing that won't offend someone. If I make an egg sandwich and give it to a homeless person in my way to church, one person will call me a saint and another person will say I'm enabling lazy people while before participating in tired pagan rituals designed to exert control over the populace0 -
But in regards to trolling... are you a troll? Trololololol
You seem nice enough. You have an opinion, but you know what they say about opinons. They're like a$******. Everybody has one! And I think we went back and forth a bit, but I don't think you're mean.
Don't let the smooth taste fool you. I'm the meanest, least helpful person on this site. Pretty sure I've never helped anyone nor contributed an honest response to any thread. I'm certain this is true because in threads like this lurkers come out of the woodwork and say so. MM can PM you and explain why.0 -
Bump---however I'm positive towards MFP, and wish the people complaining would do more to heip the newbies. Also, lurking isn't so bad---most of us do it and learn alot. Not everyone has to jump in if they are timid. If you wait long enough all your questions will be answered.
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I've been meaning to post this link forever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjibEkDoXQc
Found it too. Turns out that I'm neither narcissistic nor machiavellian, that was complimentary. Nobody's perfect though.LOL, I found a personality test. Given that my highest score (Machiavellian) put me in the whopping 14th percentile, pretty sure I don't qualify as dark triad. But I'm just a big self centered manipulative meanie so who knows.... I could be lying.0
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