Why are carbs so bad?

bluebird321

They're bad if - and only if - you're sensitive to carbs. Some folks are. Some folks aren't.

I had pasta with my lunch, and garlic bread, sweet potatoes and rice with my dinner. Love the carbs!

I think you are the exception. A lot has to do with age, for me anyway. In my 20s, 30s and 40s I could eat anything, as long as I exercised daily the weight came off. Now that I am older it is so different for me.

This.

My experience was similar to yours, but I ran into that roadblock in my early 40s. My understanding (it's limited as i'm still learning) is that pancreatic function, generally speaking, becomes less effective as one gets older. That's not the case with everyone of course.

sethandjane

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/

just one perspective ^

Personally, I realized that once I took grains and unfermented dairy out of my diet, I felt soooo much better and never crashed at any point in the day and had way more energy then when i was eating a lot of carbs. now i eat more fat and am losing a lot of excess body fat and all in all feel way better and am gaining muscle mass without really trying.

I totally agree with erinmac - Mark Sisson/The Primal Blueprint doesn't say eliminate all carbs - he promotes getting your carbs from veggies, fruit, nuts, seeds, etc. And I agree with erinmac - once I eliminated grains from my diet, I have a ton more energy - it might just be that I'm insulin-resistant, or that this is how the human body should be eating - either way I feel better. Good luck!

songbyrdsweet

i'm sorry furekurss but i looked at your food diary- there is no way in hell you can convince me that 85 slices of pepperoni for breakfast is healthy in this or any other era of mankind's existence.
but thanks! i just totally lost my appetite after reading about your "snack" of 2 Tbs of hellman's mayonnaise. actually gotta go brush my teeth cause i just threw up in my mouth a little.
i'm not arguing against being in a keto state will cause weight loss faster than practically anything else, but there has to be a way to accomplish that with healthier, more natural choices, if you want to be a good example of the diet style you're preaching.

the irony of standing on the soapbox about 'the Paleo Diet' (a way of eating that is suppose to mimic the diets of our hunter-gatherer ancestors) while making choices like what is in your food diary is not lost on most of us.

ps. sorry to poke fun at you but your rudeness and overall just sounding like an internet crazy just brought out the worst in me. i'll probably feel horrible about this post in morning. but then again maybe not for i am truly trying to help you- one thing i think we all can easily agree upon is that our ancestors ate organically, it was the only thing available. there was no pepperoni (something that reoccurs on your food dairy daily). the other point is that if you wish to enlighten people to the holy grail that you believe to have found please try to take a different tone. you probably turned more newbies OFF of the Paleo Diet if they happen to read this thread- no one wants the perfect body if every other human on planet avoids them cause of such a horrid attitude (whether that is from the diet or your natural state i do not know, but if you want to be a spokesperson for something- attitude counts!). you and your perfect Paleo body will have a sad lonely life and no one wants that for you.

you have changed the way i think, i will now go eat some carbs! carbs are key to life, i guess i just didnt read up on it well enough, you bring valuable information here and i should of done more research on this b4 posting all my bs posting. I finally read on the internet today that carbs are actually benefitial for survival since they have so much more vitamins rather than just meats and such. lol sorry for being so mean, i guess its the lack of carbs in my diet. will be eating more,

Thanks again

Actually, your diet does look like crap, all sarcasm aside. I eat roughly 10-15% carbohydrates, all from nuts, fruits, veg, and some dairy. ~55-60% fat, 30% protein. I will eat a mini-slim jim as a treat if I'm craving something salty and need some more fat for the day, but there's no way I'm eating cheese and pepperoni at every meal. Keto doesn't just mean processed meat and cheese. You still need to eat things with some appreciable nutritional value. You are welcome to look at my food diary.

I was thinking that too. I am not in keto, but I would assume that someone who is could make better food choices than what I saw in that diary.

Absolutely. I did keto for a year a couple years back, and I was eating a TON of veggies. Now I like this 'primal' a lot more because I get to eat more berries than I did then. I could eat other fruits but I feel I get more out of the berries since they are not calorie/carb dense and have lots of antioxidants.

d2footballJRC

i'm sorry furekurss but i looked at your food diary- there is no way in hell you can convince me that 85 slices of pepperoni for breakfast is healthy in this or any other era of mankind's existence.
but thanks! i just totally lost my appetite after reading about your "snack" of 2 Tbs of hellman's mayonnaise. actually gotta go brush my teeth cause i just threw up in my mouth a little.
i'm not arguing against being in a keto state will cause weight loss faster than practically anything else, but there has to be a way to accomplish that with healthier, more natural choices, if you want to be a good example of the diet style you're preaching.

the irony of standing on the soapbox about 'the Paleo Diet' (a way of eating that is suppose to mimic the diets of our hunter-gatherer ancestors) while making choices like what is in your food diary is not lost on most of us.

ps. sorry to poke fun at you but your rudeness and overall just sounding like an internet crazy just brought out the worst in me. i'll probably feel horrible about this post in morning. but then again maybe not for i am truly trying to help you- one thing i think we all can easily agree upon is that our ancestors ate organically, it was the only thing available. there was no pepperoni (something that reoccurs on your food dairy daily). the other point is that if you wish to enlighten people to the holy grail that you believe to have found please try to take a different tone. you probably turned more newbies OFF of the Paleo Diet if they happen to read this thread- no one wants the perfect body if every other human on planet avoids them cause of such a horrid attitude (whether that is from the diet or your natural state i do not know, but if you want to be a spokesperson for something- attitude counts!). you and your perfect Paleo body will have a sad lonely life and no one wants that for you.

you have changed the way i think, i will now go eat some carbs! carbs are key to life, i guess i just didnt read up on it well enough, you bring valuable information here and i should of done more research on this b4 posting all my bs posting. I finally read on the internet today that carbs are actually benefitial for survival since they have so much more vitamins rather than just meats and such. lol sorry for being so mean, i guess its the lack of carbs in my diet. will be eating more,

Thanks again

Actually, your diet does look like crap, all sarcasm aside. I eat roughly 10-15% carbohydrates, all from nuts, fruits, veg, and some dairy. ~55-60% fat, 30% protein. I will eat a mini-slim jim as a treat if I'm craving something salty and need some more fat for the day, but there's no way I'm eating cheese and pepperoni at every meal. Keto doesn't just mean processed meat and cheese. You still need to eat things with some appreciable nutritional value. You are welcome to look at my food diary.

I was thinking that too. I am not in keto, but I would assume that someone who is could make better food choices than what I saw in that diary.

Absolutely. I did keto for a year a couple years back, and I was eating a TON of veggies. Now I like this 'primal' a lot more because I get to eat more berries than I did then. I could eat other fruits but I feel I get more out of the berries since they are not calorie/carb dense and have lots of antioxidants.

Keto and certain veggies don't go hand in hand. You can eat some, I wouldn't eat a ton because you have a chance to keep you in the brain fog stage of Ketosis. Biggest thing about Keto is the person needs to research it and ready to follow it. The initial feeling you get for like 2 weeks makes living with a loved one hard lol.

Keto pyramid:


Most veggies you can have but you have to avoid:
Carrots, Celery, Onion, Peppers-Red, Tomatoes, Turnips. You want Vegetables with a low sugar/glycemic rating.

BerryH

Before low carb became trendy, people lost plenty of weight doing low fat. Back in the day I was happy to live off pasta (with no-oil tomato sauce) and jacket potatoes with baked beans (but no butter) for months!

Different things work for different people - you may find you get dry skin from low fat, not enough energy to run from low carbs or bad results from resistance training if you don't have enough protein.

A good balance with enough of everything (including my favourite micronutrient red wine!) works best for me and helps me achieve my weight-loss goals without compromising my fitness goals, which are probably more important, or feeling hungry.

songbyrdsweet

I know, I did it quite successfully for a year.

Acg67

Just a reminder:

Ketogenic diets have no metabolic advantage

songbyrdsweet

Just a reminder:

Ketogenic diets have no metabolic advantage

Weight loss doesn't differ significantly after 6-12 months, but it would be facile to consider that a reflection on metabolic changes.

cramernh

Speaking for myself - I cannot digest the high-glycemic varieties at all and any of the higher medium-glycemic varieties... I had such an extreme dumping of insulin (more worse than insulin resistance) that I almost creeped up on Insulin Shock: not fun.

This weird metabolic disorder forces total elimination of potatoes, rice, pasta, corn, white flour, bleached any-flour, breads, etc...

Moderation will never apply in my medical situation as it will put me back in the hospital again.

Everyone is going to react differently - and of course it would because we are all different, some taking varying medications, others with different medical situations...

The amount of carbs and the types of carbs should be a discussion held with said-individual and their primary care physicians, endocrinologist and/or registered dieticians....

d2footballJRC

Just a reminder:

Ketogenic diets have no metabolic advantage

No it doesn't but the theory is:

Under a normal glycolytic metabolism, fat exists only as a backup or reserve fuel. Your body does not like to use it. When your body requires energy under a glycolytic metabolism, it first scans your blood-stream for glucose. If not much blood-glucose is found, then your body will command the liver to convert its stored glycogen into glucose. If not much glycogen is found, then your body will breakdown muscle and fat. Fat is the very last option. Under ketosis, fat is the very first option for energy ahead of anything else. LDL cholesterol is also readily reduced under ketosis.

Acg67

Just a reminder:
Ketogenic diets have no metabolic advantage

Weight loss doesn't differ significantly after 6-12 months, but it would be facile to consider that a reflection on metabolic changes.

I've posted relevant studies, controlled metabolic ward studies show no metabolic advantage to keto diets, and other studies have shown the initial greater weight loss is all due to water loss

CoryIda

I carbs... healthy, nutritious carbs. Whole grains, fresh fruits & veggies, etc.

songbyrdsweet

Just a reminder:
Ketogenic diets have no metabolic advantage

Weight loss doesn't differ significantly after 6-12 months, but it would be facile to consider that a reflection on metabolic changes.

I've posted relevant studies, controlled metabolic ward studies show no metabolic advantage to keto diets, and other studies have shown the initial greater weight loss is all due to water loss

Oh, do we have to post studies? I'm out then, because I am already up to my neck in them writing my dissertation. I don't care THAT much about this topic.

d2footballJRC

Just a reminder:
Ketogenic diets have no metabolic advantage

Weight loss doesn't differ significantly after 6-12 months, but it would be facile to consider that a reflection on metabolic changes.

I've posted relevant studies, controlled metabolic ward studies show no metabolic advantage to keto diets, and other studies have shown the initial greater weight loss is all due to water loss

Keto diet isn't about achieving faster weightloss, it's about keeping your muscles intact while you lose the weight.

songbyrdsweet

Just a reminder:
Ketogenic diets have no metabolic advantage

Weight loss doesn't differ significantly after 6-12 months, but it would be facile to consider that a reflection on metabolic changes.

I've posted relevant studies, controlled metabolic ward studies show no metabolic advantage to keto diets, and other studies have shown the initial greater weight loss is all due to water loss

Keto diet isn't about achieving faster weightloss, it's about keeping your muscles intact while you lose the weight.

Honestly that's regulated by caloric deficit. If it's too large, regardless of the diet, you will lose muscle mass. You need amino acids and you have no way to store them for times of famine. I like eating higher fat/protein because I feel full and it's easy to maintain my deficit. Plus it's effing YUMMY.

RonSwanson66

Keto diet isn't about achieving faster weightloss, it's about keeping your muscles intact while you lose the weight.

Ketosis doesn't help with this, sufficient protein and weight training does.

d2footballJRC

Keto diet isn't about achieving faster weightloss, it's about keeping your muscles intact while you lose the weight.

Ketosis doesn't help with this, sufficient protein and weight training does.

Correct, which if you are doing Keto correctly you should be getting. Keto's main focus is to burn fat before other sources of energy though. Goal is to burn the fat before the muscle. Which isn't even what the Keto diet was originally designed for but from most fitness perspectives it is the end goal now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

taso42

So. to summarize the takeaway messages here....

Weight loss and muscle preservation/building success can be had with and without carbs
If you limit carbs too severely you may turn into a raging *kitten*
Paleoman ate a diet rich in cheese and pepperoni
Paleoman fanboys get very angry when other people eat carbs
My oatmeal and banana tastes delicious this morning

GreenLifeGirl

All the macro nutrients have an important role in our diet, but the balance of the three will look different for each person, depending on their particular needs and health/fitness goals.

I eat completely clean, unprocessed foods, but I have PCOS and am insulite resistent. Despite eating very healthy carbs (no bread or pasta, but things like lentils/legumes, raw fruit, etc), I still have to keep them limited otherwise my health suffers and I don't lose weight. My sister, who also eats clean, has to have a much higher % of carbs, otherwise she gets very tired and lacks energy...she has no health problems and has an awesome metabolism.

Barneystinson

I like carbs. They help me run faster. But I still think protein is far superior.

RonSwanson66

Keto diet isn't about achieving faster weightloss, it's about keeping your muscles intact while you lose the weight.

Ketosis doesn't help with this, sufficient protein and weight training does.

Correct, which if you are doing Keto correctly you should be getting. Keto's main focus is to burn fat before other sources of energy though. Goal is to burn the fat before the muscle. Which isn't even what the Keto diet was originally designed for but from most fitness perspectives it is the end goal now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

So why do you think keto has an advantage over an isocaloric, protein-matched diet with higher carbs and lower fat?

(Hint: it doesn't)

lockef

Keto diet isn't about achieving faster weightloss, it's about keeping your muscles intact while you lose the weight.

Ketosis doesn't help with this, sufficient protein and weight training does.

Correct, which if you are doing Keto correctly you should be getting. Keto's main focus is to burn fat before other sources of energy though. Goal is to burn the fat before the muscle. Which isn't even what the Keto diet was originally designed for but from most fitness perspectives it is the end goal now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

So why do you think keto has an advantage over an isocaloric, protein-matched diet with higher carbs and lower fat?

Appetite suppression

RonSwanson66

Keto diet isn't about achieving faster weightloss, it's about keeping your muscles intact while you lose the weight.

Ketosis doesn't help with this, sufficient protein and weight training does.

Correct, which if you are doing Keto correctly you should be getting. Keto's main focus is to burn fat before other sources of energy though. Goal is to burn the fat before the muscle. Which isn't even what the Keto diet was originally designed for but from most fitness perspectives it is the end goal now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

So why do you think keto has an advantage over an isocaloric, protein-matched diet with higher carbs and lower fat?

Appetite suppression

Adequate protein and fiber intake will have the same effect.

lockef

Adequate protein and fiber intake will have the same effect.

Have you ever done keto? Not the same.

In addition, if done correctly, keto also has a muscle sparing effect.

RonSwanson66

Adequate protein and fiber intake will have the same effect.

Have you ever done keto? Not the same.

In addition, if done correctly, keto also has a muscle sparing effect.

Already covered.

Keto has not been shown to have any advantage over isocaloric, protein matched diets. None.

It's a strategy that is useful for some, but not all.. Nothing magical.

"However, not everyone functions well in ketosis. They get brain fuzzed, lethargic and just generally feel awful. Even with weeks of being on a ketogenic diet, they never seem to adapt completely. That’s not a good recipe for long-term adherence to a diet or healthy functioning or training.

Tangentially, I’d note that this seems to be related to inherent levels of insulin sensitivity. Individuals with good insulin sensitivity, who typically run well on carbohydrates, tend to not do well on low-carbohydrate diets. In contrast, individuals with insulin resistance often do far better reducing carbohydrates and that often means going to ketogenic levels. Finally, some people seem to have the metabolic flexibility to do well with either diet."

Lyle McDonald
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/how-many-carbohydrates-do-you-need.html

neanderthin

Adequate protein and fiber intake will have the same effect.

Have you ever done keto? Not the same.

In addition, if done correctly, keto also has a muscle sparing effect.

And carbs are protein sparing.

lockef

RS, I don't understand what your quote has to do with proving metabolic advantage. I like LM too, I've bought and read both "The ketogenic diet" and "Ultimate Diet 2.0".

In terms of overall weight loss, no there's no advantage. If you burn more than you consume, you will lose weight. Keto diets change your bodies primary source of fuel from glucose to fat. That means that your body will not break down muscle for glucose for fuel, and use ketones and fat instead.

neanderthin

RS, I don't understand what your quote has to do with proving metabolic advantage. I like LM too, I've bought and read both "The ketogenic diet" and "Ultimate Diet 2.0".

In terms of overall weight loss, no there's no advantage. If you burn more than you consume, you will lose weight. Keto diets change your bodies primary source of fuel from glucose to fat. That means that your body will not break down muscle for glucose for fuel, and use ketones and fat instead.

If in an isocaloric state or when overconsumed....in a deficit amino's are going to be used for glucose production, so it isn't that clear cut.

lockef

Some excerpts from Lyle McDonalds The Ketogenic Diet...

"There is a common misconception, especially among bodybuilders, that ketosis is
indicative of protein breakdown when in fact the exact opposite is the case. The development of
ketosis sets in motion a series of adaptations which minimize body protein losses during periods
of caloric deprivation. In fact, preventing the development of ketosis during these periods
increases protein losses from the body."

"By the third day of carbohydrate restriction, the body is no longer using an appreciable
amount of glucose for fuel. At this time essentially all of the non-protein energy is being derived
from the oxidation of fat, both directly from FFA and indirectly via ketone bodies."

"An unusual effect of complete fasting is a general decrease in appetite after a short period
of time. Additionally, studies which restrict carbohydrate but allow ‘unlimited’ fat and protein find
that calorie intake goes down compared to normal levels further suggesting a link between
ketosis and appetite"

Again, no metabolic advantage. Cal in/cal out, blah blah.

RonSwanson66

Some excerpts from Lyle McDonalds The Ketogenic Diet...

"There is a common misconception, especially among bodybuilders, that ketosis is
indicative of protein breakdown when in fact the exact opposite is the case. The development of
ketosis sets in motion a series of adaptations which minimize body protein losses during periods
of caloric deprivation. In fact, preventing the development of ketosis during these periods
increases protein losses from the body."

"By the third day of carbohydrate restriction, the body is no longer using an appreciable
amount of glucose for fuel. At this time essentially all of the non-protein energy is being derived
from the oxidation of fat, both directly from FFA and indirectly via ketone bodies."

"An unusual effect of complete fasting is a general decrease in appetite after a short period
of time. Additionally, studies which restrict carbohydrate but allow ‘unlimited’ fat and protein find
that calorie intake goes down compared to normal levels further suggesting a link between
ketosis and appetite"

Again, no metabolic advantage. Cal in/cal out, blah blah.

More from Lyle:

"My opinion on ketogenic diets is this: ketogenic diets are one of many (ok, three) dietary approaches available. They have advantages and disadvantages (like all diets). They are appropriate under some circumstances, relatively neutral under others, and entirely inappropriate under still other circumstances. They are not magic but they work tremendously well for some people and absolutely horribly for other. There are still questions regarding their long-term effects."

"The point I’m trying to make, and one that I will continue to make (probably for the rest of my life since morons will always think of me as the keto-guru), is that, it’s a matter of context, always. Whether a given diet, or training program, or supplement or drug is ‘the best’ always depends on context.

And if you continue to think that I only advocate or believe in ketogenic diets after reading that, I strongly suggest you go get your head checked for signs of trauma because you would seem to have a rather large comprehension problem."

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/comparing-the-diets-part-4.html



"for the most part, studies where protein is adequate (or at least close to it), varying carbs and fats within the context of an identical caloric intake tends to have a minimal overall effect. What effect is occasionally seen tends to be small and highly variable (some subjects do better with one diet than another but there’s no consistent advantage). With the possible exception of extreme conditions (folks looking for super-leanness or folks who are super-obese), caloric intake is the greater determinant of results than the macronutrient composition."

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/is-a-calorie-a-calorie.html