You Can Gain Muscle On A Calorie Deficit!!

Ripken818836701

I gained plenty of muscle while dropping 150lbs over 8 months. I lift significantly more weight now.

I did this on a 1200-1500 cal 150-250 protein diet for a majority of the time. I did do refeeds to keep metabolism regulated and normalized. In actuallity with the cardio I was eating 500-700 NET cals most days.

So you were in the obese/very overweight exception of people who gained on calorie deficit.


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And so was I but I never ate below 2,400 calories or ATLEAST 225 grams of protein per day and thats once I dropped to 213lbs, 9lbs ago,

ninerbuff

The exact groups of people that I Iintended this thread for!! And remember in my study, the subjects only resistance trained for 15 minutes per day. I doubt I would have gained any muscle If I only lifted for 15 minutes per day.

Again, your "study" isn't verified. No link, no abstract. Till you come up with the actual study, it's anecdotal.

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tigersword

I also found another article that used a study done by UConn. (storr) as a reference but I couldnt find the actual study.

Here's a link to a CLINICAL STUDY to show that lean body weight can be maintained while in calorie deficit, but that no significant lean muscle was built. Yes there was exercise involved.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/47/1/19.short

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Lean muscle was built!! And please inform me of what each of the subjects weight was at the start of of the study,what was their calorie deficit during the study, how many grams of protein per day did each subject consume and also what was their wrokout program/ split? Not trying to be like you, but atleast in my study, they provided the amount of calories each subject consumed every day and that they only did resistance exercise for 15 minutes per day.

It never said muscle was built. You do realize that lean body weight and muscle aren't the same thing? Muscle is part of lbw, but lbw also includes water, organs, bones, tendons, ligaments, in other words, everything that isn't fat is lbw. A one pound gain in lbw does not I dictate muscle being built, odds are it indicates water and glycogen storage.

And you didn't post a "study." you posted an article written about a study. Without a Link to the actual study itself, there's no way to determine whether the article is correct or just making it up.

ninerbuff

Lean muscle was built!! And please inform me of what each of the subjects weight was at the start of of the study,what was their calorie deficit during the study, how many grams of protein per day did each subject consume and also what was their wrokout program/ split? Not trying to be like you, but atleast in my study, they provided the amount of calories each subject consumed every day and that they only did resistance exercise for 15 minutes per day.

Lol, reading comprehension may not be your best quality.

Lean body weight (LBW) increased for EO (1.07 kg) compared with DO (-0.91 kg) and C (-0.31 kg) and for DPE (0.43 kg) compared with DO.

EO was the group that weight trained without dieting. DO was diet without exercise. DPE was diet with exercise. As you can see, the non dieting group put on the most LBW while the even the weight trained group with diet put on a paltry .43kg or .9lb in 8 weeks. And these were OBESE people, not your 10lb-50lb overweight individuals.

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ninerbuff

You either are spinning your butt off or playing dumb!! My Dr. who is a board certified physician and has worked out his entire life, was the person responsible for getting me to start working out, because of being on HB. and Col. meds I had blood and urine work done every 3 months, ( my goal was to get off the meds and stay off) so as I exercised, dropped the weight and ate healthy he reduced my meds and finally took me off them, The enitre time I kept bugging him to test my T- levels aswell because all I kept seeing on TV. was when men hit my age their T-levels keep dropping etc. etc.. He finally gave in, but not after telling me time after time, that my T-levels were fine because if they were not where they should be for a white male my age, there is no way I could put on the amount of muscle I had. ( turns out he was right and I was worried about nothing) and it wasnt like he was shocked that I gained muscle while on a deficit.

This is a nice story, but it doesn't VERIFY anything you've stated.

second, (and you know this) A newbie on a surplus can gain 25-30lbs of muscle during their first year, where as a seasoned body builder is lucky to put on 10lbs of new muscle. (but keep playing dumb or better yet call Sally Struthers and ask her for your money back for the certification courses you took)

No need to start getting personal and calling me "dumb". That usually happens when people whose argument starts to unravel. Of course I know that a newbie on SURPLUS can gain that weight. YOUR CLAIM is that you did it IN DEFICIT which is what your whole thread is about. Where am I being "dumb" here by re stating what you've claimed?

Now I shouldnt even mention this, (since your so amazed by my arms getting bigger) but when I started working out, (+ 83 lbs) I could wrap my hand around either one of my forearms a couple inches above my wrist and touch my thumb and middle finger together, now there is about an inch of space in between my thumb and middle finger. (-83 lbs)

You're right, you shouldn't have mentioned it because it has nothing to do with the debate at hand.

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ninerbuff

I gained plenty of muscle while dropping 150lbs over 8 months. I lift significantly more weight now.

I did this on a 1200-1500 cal 150-250 protein diet for a majority of the time. I did do refeeds to keep metabolism regulated and normalized. In actuallity with the cardio I was eating 500-700 NET cals most days.

So you were in the obese/very overweight exception of people who gained on calorie deficit.


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And so was I but I never ate below 2,400 calories or ATLEAST 225 grams of protein per day and thats once I dropped to 213lbs, 9lbs ago,

Wait, that would be a SURPLUS then based on your BMR. A 300lbs man at your height and age has a BMR of 2115. Even if he exercised and daily energy expenditure was 1000 calories extra, he would still have to consume 2600 to lose 1lb a week.
This is getting better and better each post.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

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ninerbuff

It never said muscle was built. You do realize that lean body weight and muscle aren't the same thing? Muscle is part of lbw, but lbw also includes water, organs, bones, tendons, ligaments, in other words, everything that isn't fat is lbw. A one pound gain in lbw does not I dictate muscle being built, odds are it indicates water and glycogen storage.

And you didn't post a "study." you posted an article written about a study. Without a Link to the actual study itself, there's no way to determine whether the article is correct or just making it up.

He'll get it after it's been stated a few more times.

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ninerbuff

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

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Ripken818836701

The exact groups of people that I Iintended this thread for!! And remember in my study, the subjects only resistance trained for 15 minutes per day. I doubt I would have gained any muscle If I only lifted for 15 minutes per day.

Again, your "study" isn't verified. No link, no abstract. Till you come up with the actual study, it's anecdotal.

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Again your study was no better

Ripken818836701

Lean muscle was built!! And please inform me of what each of the subjects weight was at the start of of the study,what was their calorie deficit during the study, how many grams of protein per day did each subject consume and also what was their wrokout program/ split? Not trying to be like you, but atleast in my study, they provided the amount of calories each subject consumed every day and that they only did resistance exercise for 15 minutes per day.

Lol, reading comprehension may not be your best quality.

Lean body weight (LBW) increased for EO (1.07 kg) compared with DO (-0.91 kg) and C (-0.31 kg) and for DPE (0.43 kg) compared with DO.

EO was the group that weight trained without dieting. DO was diet without exercise. DPE was diet with exercise. As you can see, the non dieting group put on the most LBW while the even the weight trained group with diet put on a paltry .43kg or .9lb in 8 weeks. And these were OBESE people, not your 10lb-50lb overweight individuals.

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Again, what was each subjects age? what did each subject weigh? what was their calorie deficit per day, how many grams of protein did each subject consume per day, And what was their program, split etc.
Or dont you think none of the things I mentioned matter?

Ripken818836701

You either are spinning your butt off or playing dumb!! My Dr. who is a board certified physician and has worked out his entire life, was the person responsible for getting me to start working out, because of being on HB. and Col. meds I had blood and urine work done every 3 months, ( my goal was to get off the meds and stay off) so as I exercised, dropped the weight and ate healthy he reduced my meds and finally took me off them, The enitre time I kept bugging him to test my T- levels aswell because all I kept seeing on TV. was when men hit my age their T-levels keep dropping etc. etc.. He finally gave in, but not after telling me time after time, that my T-levels were fine because if they were not where they should be for a white male my age, there is no way I could put on the amount of muscle I had. ( turns out he was right and I was worried about nothing) and it wasnt like he was shocked that I gained muscle while on a deficit.

This is a nice story, but it doesn't VERIFY anything you've stated.

second, (and you know this) A newbie on a surplus can gain 25-30lbs of muscle during their first year, where as a seasoned body builder is lucky to put on 10lbs of new muscle. (but keep playing dumb or better yet call Sally Struthers and ask her for your money back for the certification courses you took)

No need to start getting personal and calling me "dumb". That usually happens when people whose argument starts to unravel. Of course I know that a newbie on SURPLUS can gain that weight. YOUR CLAIM is that you did it IN DEFICIT which is what your whole thread is about. Where am I being "dumb" here by re stating what you've claimed?

Now I shouldnt even mention this, (since your so amazed by my arms getting bigger) but when I started working out, (+ 83 lbs) I could wrap my hand around either one of my forearms a couple inches above my wrist and touch my thumb and middle finger together, now there is about an inch of space in between my thumb and middle finger. (-83 lbs)

You're right, you shouldn't have mentioned it because it has nothing to do with the debate at hand.

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Lol, reading comprehension may not be your best quality either, Because I didnt call you dumb! I said that your either spinning your butt off or PLAYING DUMB, But each and everytime another member posts that they gained muscle and lost fat at the same time, it makes you look like it. (just sayin)

Ripken818836701

I gained plenty of muscle while dropping 150lbs over 8 months. I lift significantly more weight now.

I did this on a 1200-1500 cal 150-250 protein diet for a majority of the time. I did do refeeds to keep metabolism regulated and normalized. In actuallity with the cardio I was eating 500-700 NET cals most days.

So you were in the obese/very overweight exception of people who gained on calorie deficit.


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And so was I but I never ate below 2,400 calories or ATLEAST 225 grams of protein per day and thats once I dropped to 213lbs, 9lbs ago,

Wait, that would be a SURPLUS then based on your BMR. A 300lbs man at your height and age has a BMR of 2115. Even if he exercised and daily energy expenditure was 1000 calories extra, he would still have to consume 2600 to lose 1lb a week.
This is getting better and better each post.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

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LMAO, This post right here explains it all to me. MFP. calculated that I needed to eat 1900 calories per day to lose 2-3 lbs ( my goal was only to lose 1-2 lbs per week) per week without eating back calories burned due to exercise. But then again MFP also calculated that I only needed to consume 71 grams of protein per day. Now MFP. is a great tool, but everyone is different and should only use MFP calculations or your cookie cutter calculations as a starting point. Again your either playing dumb (please note I didnt call you dumb) or spinning your butt off again. If I have been eating at a surplus how did I lose 83 lbs. now in just under 13 months???

ninerbuff

The exact groups of people that I Iintended this thread for!! And remember in my study, the subjects only resistance trained for 15 minutes per day. I doubt I would have gained any muscle If I only lifted for 15 minutes per day.

Again, your "study" isn't verified. No link, no abstract. Till you come up with the actual study, it's anecdotal.

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Again your study was no better

Lol, the study was a PEER REVIEWED CLINICAL STUDY. That's much different then just spouting about "some study that ______ did" to try to support your stance. There's more to it than just the abstract if you're willing to pay. Don't know if they take pike for pay though.

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ninerbuff

Again, what was each subjects age? what did each subject weigh? what was their calorie deficit per day, how many grams of protein did each subject consume per day, And what was their program, split etc.
Or dont you think none of the things I mentioned matter?

It's the abstract. That's the summary overall summary of the study. Like I stated, if you want to see the whole study, feel free to pay to see it. I'm a cheap skate and have no need to see it since this is research I've read over and over again.

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ninerbuff

Lol, reading comprehension may not be your best quality either, Because I didnt call you dumb! I said that your either spinning your butt off or PLAYING DUMB, But each and everytime another member posts that they gained muscle and lost fat at the same time, it makes you look like it. (just sayin)

I have no need to play dumb. I've more than countered each statement you keep putting out. You don't address them when brought up, you try to deflect them by asking or making statements not even related to the topic we were on.

So to make it easy let's go one at a time:
Is it your view that you can put on 10lbs of muscle on a calorie deficit? Simple question. Answer it and then post a study showing that it was actually done. That's it. Just start there and don't go off on some tangent.

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fteale

There's quite a difference between putting on new lean muscle and just strengthening / maintaining what you already have. It takes calories to "bulk up".

Within your body, it is not a sum net gain or loss.

If the eaten protein can be used for building muscle, it will be.
If it isn't, it'll be burned as amino acids or stored as fat more likely.
The energy your body is needing in deficit is already coming from fat stores (and carbs, and muscle if doing it all wrong). All you are doing is sending protein to the muscle instead of conversion to the fat for storage.

You can build new lean muscle on a deficit.

I agree. Because I have, so unless I am some massive freak of nature, it's clearly possible. I may not have gained muscle overall, but it has relocated, so clearly I am building it as well as breaking it down. My calves are now bigger in diameter than they were before I lost weight, and are solid muscle, whereas before they had some fat (though not a lot as I don't carry much fat on my legs).

ninerbuff

I gained plenty of muscle while dropping 150lbs over 8 months. I lift significantly more weight now.

I did this on a 1200-1500 cal 150-250 protein diet for a majority of the time. I did do refeeds to keep metabolism regulated and normalized. In actuallity with the cardio I was eating 500-700 NET cals most days.

So you were in the obese/very overweight exception of people who gained on calorie deficit.


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And so was I but I never ate below 2,400 calories or ATLEAST 225 grams of protein per day and thats once I dropped to 213lbs, 9lbs ago,

Wait, that would be a SURPLUS then based on your BMR. A 300lbs man at your height and age has a BMR of 2115. Even if he exercised and daily energy expenditure was 1000 calories extra, he would still have to consume 2600 to lose 1lb a week.
This is getting better and better each post.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

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LMAO, This post right here explains it all to me. MFP. calculated that I needed to eat 1900 calories per day to lose 2-3 lbs ( my goal was only to lose 1-2 lbs per week) per week without eating back calories burned due to exercise. But then again MFP also calculated that I only needed to consume 71 grams of protein per day. Now MFP. is a great tool, but everyone is different and should only use MFP calculations or your cookie cutter calculations as a starting point. Again your either playing dumb (please note I didnt call you dumb) or spinning your butt off again. If I have been eating at a surplus how did I lose 83 lbs. now in just under 13 months???

No I agree you had to be in deficit or else you wouldn't have lost the weight. The lost weight isn't the debate, it's the gaining of at least 10lbs of muscle or more in the process.

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ninerbuff

I agree. Because I have, so unless I am some massive freak of nature, it's clearly possible. I may not have gained muscle overall, but it has relocated, so clearly I am building it as well as breaking it down. My calves are now bigger in diameter than they were before I lost weight, and are solid muscle, whereas before they had some fat (though not a lot as I don't carry much fat on my legs).

I believe that recomposition happens, but like building lean muscle on a calorie deficit, I don't think it's in the "numbers" that people think they are.

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Acg67

Such a simple request to substantiate an argument becomes a lesson in futility

minadeathclutch

There's quite a difference between putting on new lean muscle and just strengthening / maintaining what you already have. It takes calories to "bulk up".

You can add muscle aswell. The only exception is when you reach a very low BF%

I'm a goood example of this, my muscles have grown SO much its not even funny, YET i'm losing weight weekly... im on a calorie defecit.. but i eat protein like a cow, and vegetables and good carbs..

ninerbuff

Such a simple request to substantiate an argument becomes a lesson in futility

Ah yeah. But it's hard for me to let someone pass on bad info on the boards here. Next thing you know, he'll be drinking Shakeology and claiming massive growth while still on calorie deficit.

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cheddle

***I TOTALY AGREE WITH OP - ITS TRUE*** READ:
I have been calorie deficit diet for almost a year, with the odd blow out every 7 to 14 days... and by blow out I mean about 500 calories above maintenance.

I have been strength training primarily

squats, bench press and deadlifts being the focus of my training.

I started not being able to squat my body weight of 140kg more than 25 times. I can now squat 120 kgs, for reps.
I stated not being able to bench press more than 40 kgs, I can now bench press 100kgs for 1RM and 87kg for reps
I started not being able to hold onto an 80kg deadlift, I can now lock out 160kgs...

I have made these gains whilst eating 500-1000 calories below my maintenance on a daily basis

Acg67

***I TOTALY AGREE WITH OP - ITS TRUE*** READ:
I have been calorie deficit diet for almost a year, with the odd blow out every 7 to 14 days... and by blow out I mean about 500 calories above maintenance.

I have been strength training primarily

squats, bench press and deadlifts being the focus of my training.

I started not being able to squat my body weight of 140kg more than 25 times. I can now squat 120 kgs, for reps.
I stated not being able to bench press more than 40 kgs, I can now bench press 100kgs for 1RM and 87kg for reps
I started not being able to hold onto an 80kg deadlift, I can now lock out 160kgs...

I have made these gains whilst eating 500-1000 calories below my maintenance on a daily basis

You have given examples of an increase in strength which doesn't necessarily mean an increase in muscle

ninerbuff

***I TOTALY AGREE WITH OP - ITS TRUE*** READ:
I have been calorie deficit diet for almost a year, with the odd blow out every 7 to 14 days... and by blow out I mean about 500 calories above maintenance.

I have been strength training primarily

squats, bench press and deadlifts being the focus of my training.

I started not being able to squat my body weight of 140kg more than 25 times. I can now squat 120 kgs, for reps.
I stated not being able to bench press more than 40 kgs, I can now bench press 100kgs for 1RM and 87kg for reps
I started not being able to hold onto an 80kg deadlift, I can now lock out 160kgs...

I have made these gains whilst eating 500-1000 calories below my maintenance on a daily basis

You have given examples of an increase in strength which doesn't necessarily mean an increase in muscle

THIS. if you haven't studied kinesiology, physiology and myology, then the equating muscle gain as being the result of higher strength gain is not an uncommon thought.


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Elizabeth_C34

***I TOTALY AGREE WITH OP - ITS TRUE*** READ:
I have been calorie deficit diet for almost a year, with the odd blow out every 7 to 14 days... and by blow out I mean about 500 calories above maintenance.

I have been strength training primarily

squats, bench press and deadlifts being the focus of my training.

I started not being able to squat my body weight of 140kg more than 25 times. I can now squat 120 kgs, for reps.
I stated not being able to bench press more than 40 kgs, I can now bench press 100kgs for 1RM and 87kg for reps
I started not being able to hold onto an 80kg deadlift, I can now lock out 160kgs...

I have made these gains whilst eating 500-1000 calories below my maintenance on a daily basis

Uh huh.

My max legpress has gone from 90 lbs to 225, and I LOST almost 6 lbs of muscle. Strength gains do not equal muscle tissue gains.

fteale

I agree. Because I have, so unless I am some massive freak of nature, it's clearly possible. I may not have gained muscle overall, but it has relocated, so clearly I am building it as well as breaking it down. My calves are now bigger in diameter than they were before I lost weight, and are solid muscle, whereas before they had some fat (though not a lot as I don't carry much fat on my legs).

I believe that recomposition happens, but like building lean muscle on a calorie deficit, I don't think it's in the "numbers" that people think they are.

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I agree with that.

ninerbuff

Uh huh.

My max legpress has gone from 90 lbs to 225, and I LOST almost 6 lbs of muscle. Strength gains do not equal muscle tissue gains.

It sucks. The last 5 years, I've noticed my lean muscle slowly diminishing along with my strength.


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Ripken818836701

Lol, reading comprehension may not be your best quality either, Because I didnt call you dumb! I said that your either spinning your butt off or PLAYING DUMB, But each and everytime another member posts that they gained muscle and lost fat at the same time, it makes you look like it. (just sayin)

I have no need to play dumb. I've more than countered each statement you keep putting out. You don't address them when brought up, you try to deflect them by asking or making statements not even related to the topic we were on.

So to make it easy let's go one at a time:
Is it your view that you can put on 10lbs of muscle on a calorie deficit? Simple question. Answer it and then post a study showing that it was actually done. That's it. Just start there and don't go off on some tangent.

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I think anyone that read thru this thread would say that I tried to answer anyone that took the time to post, ask a question etc. Yes, it is my view that I did put on atleast 10lbs of muscle over the past year while on a deficit. I spent hours trying to locate studies on this subject that either supported my view and that didnt support my view and posted what I found. Meanwhile others keep posting stating that they gained muscle while on a deficit. So please put us out of our misery and post these studies that I cannot find.

Ripken818836701

I gained plenty of muscle while dropping 150lbs over 8 months. I lift significantly more weight now.

I did this on a 1200-1500 cal 150-250 protein diet for a majority of the time. I did do refeeds to keep metabolism regulated and normalized. In actuallity with the cardio I was eating 500-700 NET cals most days.

So you were in the obese/very overweight exception of people who gained on calorie deficit.


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And so was I but I never ate below 2,400 calories or ATLEAST 225 grams of protein per day and thats once I dropped to 213lbs, 9lbs ago,

Wait, that would be a SURPLUS then based on your BMR. A 300lbs man at your height and age has a BMR of 2115. Even if he exercised and daily energy expenditure was 1000 calories extra, he would still have to consume 2600 to lose 1lb a week.
This is getting better and better each post.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

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Now your turn! Straight forward answer, Are you saying that I wasnt at a deficit over the last few weeks consuming 2,400 calories per day and weighing between 204-213 lbs? If so, are you saying that a person can cut fat when not on a deficit? Because if your answer is yes, than I could absolutely be wrong and you right!! And thought I had my macro's set at a deficit over the last 13 months when I had them set at a surplus.

Ripken818836701

***I TOTALY AGREE WITH OP - ITS TRUE*** READ:
I have been calorie deficit diet for almost a year, with the odd blow out every 7 to 14 days... and by blow out I mean about 500 calories above maintenance.

I have been strength training primarily

squats, bench press and deadlifts being the focus of my training.

I started not being able to squat my body weight of 140kg more than 25 times. I can now squat 120 kgs, for reps.
I stated not being able to bench press more than 40 kgs, I can now bench press 100kgs for 1RM and 87kg for reps
I started not being able to hold onto an 80kg deadlift, I can now lock out 160kgs...

I have made these gains whilst eating 500-1000 calories below my maintenance on a daily basis

You have given examples of an increase in strength which doesn't necessarily mean an increase in muscle

THIS. if you haven't studied kinesiology, physiology and myology, then the equating muscle gain as being the result of higher strength gain is not an uncommon thought.


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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I have a question (for anyone) regarding strength gains. Please dont think that im trying claim that strength gains is proof etc. of gaining muscle because im not!! I stated this in a prior post in this thread, But in your opinion lets use bench for example, can a beginner increase their max bench 50- 100- 125 lbs etc. from just improving their form and strengthening their existing lean muscle, ligaments, tendons etc without a gain in lean muscle? Once again Im not implying increasing your bench etc. is proof that you gained LM. Just curious to see if there are limitations regarding strength gains from just improving your form and strengthing your existing lean muscle, ligaments and tendons. ect. Thanks.