You Can Gain Muscle On A Calorie Deficit!!
Replies
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Articles aren't peer reviewed clinical study. Honestly, I don't think anything some of us here tell you, would change your mind at all. Maybe if I post a pic of myself during a 1 year layoff it may convince you.Here is a link to an article on this very topic that explained to me why starting this thread was like messing with a hornets nest :happy:
[link]http://www.livestrong.com/article/362906-can-you-build-muscle-on-a-calorie-deficit/[/link]
Can You Build Muscle on a Calorie Deficit?
Jan 22, 2011 | By Daniel Lee Daniel Lee began writing professionally in 2010. He has extensive knowledge in the areas of health and fitness, with certifications in personal training, sports nutrition and standard first aid. His articles have been published on eHow and LIVESTRONG.COM. Lee is pursuing a Bachelor of Arts with honors in political science and history from McGill University.
Photo Credit The fat man's dream image by carlo cascone from Fotolia.com A popular misconception in fitness and nutrition circles is that it is impossible to build muscle and lose weight -- via a caloric deficit -- simultaneously. While this is not impossible to do, it can be quite difficult and requires several specific circumstances to be in place. First, you must be significantly overweight with a high body fat percentage. Second, you must consume a diet conducive to muscular hypertrophy. Third, you must engage in a consistent program of weight training.
Body Composition Requirements
Because the human body is designed to sacrifice muscle when losing weight as a survival mechanism, only a certain body type will permit the simultaneous growth of muscle and loss of overall mass. If you're significantly overweight, your body may be able to support increased muscle mass even on a caloric deficit, provided it has less fat to maintain. If you're relatively lean and/or muscular, however, it is much more difficult for your body to increase muscle mass while experiencing a caloric deficit.
Free Diet Plans Get Free Diet Plans Online The #1 Site For The Active Life. ActiveFactor.com
Sponsored Links Protein Requirements
While a caloric deficit implies that you're eating less food overall, it is possible to increase your protein intake during a caloric deficit by adjusting your diet to include more protein-rich foods. To succeed in building muscle and losing weight simultaneously, consume 1.6 g of protein per kilogram of bodyweight daily. To meet this goal, you'll likely have to rely heavily on protein sources, such as meat, fish, beans, eggs and tofu. You may also consider a powdered protein supplement.
Training Requirements
To build muscle while losing weight, you'll have to train with a high degree of intensity. Since the body's natural inclination is to sacrifice muscle when losing weight, training is the only way to provide a stimulus that lets your body know that muscle is needed. To maximize this stimulus, focus of heavy, compound exercises, such as the bench press, shoulder press, bent-over row, squat and deadlift. For each exercise, perform three to four sets of eight to 12 repetitions for maximum muscular hypertrophy potential.
Other Lifestyle Requirements
When experiencing a caloric deficit, your body is under stress. This can inhibit muscular synthesis alone, but it becomes particularly significant when combined with other stresses, such as those deriving from the use of alcohol and drugs. These substances can have a negative impact on the production of important muscle-building hormones, such as testosterone. You should avoid them as much as possible.
Calculate Your BMR Basal Metabolic Rate Calculator - Free From Fitness® Magazine www.FitnessMagazine.com
5 Foods you must not eat: Cut down a bit of stomach fat every day by never eating these 5 foods. Beyonddiet.com
Calorie Burn Chart Get Workout Challenges, Nutrition Tips & More- Free Download! www.dailyfitnesscenter.com
Free Calorie Calculator Track Calories For Daily Activities Try It Now & Track Burned Calories EverydayHealth.com/Calorie-Counter
Sponsored Links References
"Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition"; International Society of Sports Nutrition Position Stand: Protein and Exercise; B. Campbell, et al.; 2007
"Designing Resistance Training Programs"; Steven J. Fleck; 2004
"Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research"; Clinical and Experimental Research: Effects of Alcohol on Plasma Testosterone and Luteinizing Hormone Levels; Jack H. Mendelson, M.D., et al.; 2008
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/362906-can-you-build-muscle-on-a-calorie-deficit/#ixzz1p26Qi4em
This is me in 1995 at 210lbs. I did measurements on my arms and back then and my arms were 18".
This is me last year at 187lbs and my arms are/were 16.5".
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
You look like a 4 year old girl!0 -
bump it
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this thread is STILL going?@!0
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Niner, you should've kept the 'stache!!!
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I tried to get out and they drug me back in!!:happy:
Articles aren't peer reviewed clinical study. Honestly, I don't think anything some of us here tell you, would change your mind at all. Maybe if I post a pic of myself during a 1 year layoff it may convince you.Here is a link to an article on this very topic that explained to me why starting this thread was like messing with a hornets nest :happy:
[link]http://www.livestrong.com/article/362906-can-you-build-muscle-on-a-calorie-deficit/[/link]
Can You Build Muscle on a Calorie Deficit?
Jan 22, 2011 | By Daniel Lee Daniel Lee began writing professionally in 2010. He has extensive knowledge in the areas of health and fitness, with certifications in personal training, sports nutrition and standard first aid. His articles have been published on eHow and LIVESTRONG.COM. Lee is pursuing a Bachelor of Arts with honors in political science and history from McGill University.
Photo Credit The fat man's dream image by carlo cascone from Fotolia.com A popular misconception in fitness and nutrition circles is that it is impossible to build muscle and lose weight -- via a caloric deficit -- simultaneously. While this is not impossible to do, it can be quite difficult and requires several specific circumstances to be in place. First, you must be significantly overweight with a high body fat percentage. Second, you must consume a diet conducive to muscular hypertrophy. Third, you must engage in a consistent program of weight training.
Body Composition Requirements
Because the human body is designed to sacrifice muscle when losing weight as a survival mechanism, only a certain body type will permit the simultaneous growth of muscle and loss of overall mass. If you're significantly overweight, your body may be able to support increased muscle mass even on a caloric deficit, provided it has less fat to maintain. If you're relatively lean and/or muscular, however, it is much more difficult for your body to increase muscle mass while experiencing a caloric deficit.
Free Diet Plans Get Free Diet Plans Online The #1 Site For The Active Life. ActiveFactor.com
Sponsored Links Protein Requirements
While a caloric deficit implies that you're eating less food overall, it is possible to increase your protein intake during a caloric deficit by adjusting your diet to include more protein-rich foods. To succeed in building muscle and losing weight simultaneously, consume 1.6 g of protein per kilogram of bodyweight daily. To meet this goal, you'll likely have to rely heavily on protein sources, such as meat, fish, beans, eggs and tofu. You may also consider a powdered protein supplement.
Training Requirements
To build muscle while losing weight, you'll have to train with a high degree of intensity. Since the body's natural inclination is to sacrifice muscle when losing weight, training is the only way to provide a stimulus that lets your body know that muscle is needed. To maximize this stimulus, focus of heavy, compound exercises, such as the bench press, shoulder press, bent-over row, squat and deadlift. For each exercise, perform three to four sets of eight to 12 repetitions for maximum muscular hypertrophy potential.
Other Lifestyle Requirements
When experiencing a caloric deficit, your body is under stress. This can inhibit muscular synthesis alone, but it becomes particularly significant when combined with other stresses, such as those deriving from the use of alcohol and drugs. These substances can have a negative impact on the production of important muscle-building hormones, such as testosterone. You should avoid them as much as possible.
Calculate Your BMR Basal Metabolic Rate Calculator - Free From Fitness® Magazine www.FitnessMagazine.com
5 Foods you must not eat: Cut down a bit of stomach fat every day by never eating these 5 foods. Beyonddiet.com
Calorie Burn Chart Get Workout Challenges, Nutrition Tips & More- Free Download! www.dailyfitnesscenter.com
Free Calorie Calculator Track Calories For Daily Activities Try It Now & Track Burned Calories EverydayHealth.com/Calorie-Counter
Sponsored Links References
"Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition"; International Society of Sports Nutrition Position Stand: Protein and Exercise; B. Campbell, et al.; 2007
"Designing Resistance Training Programs"; Steven J. Fleck; 2004
"Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research"; Clinical and Experimental Research: Effects of Alcohol on Plasma Testosterone and Luteinizing Hormone Levels; Jack H. Mendelson, M.D., et al.; 2008
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/362906-can-you-build-muscle-on-a-calorie-deficit/#ixzz1p26Qi4em
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Niner, The reason we dont agree is because When I started working out, ( I am very fortunate to be from the birthplace of BBing, weight/ power Lifting, Bob Hoffman's Legendary York Barbell Gym, The home of the Weight Lifting Hall of Fame, and unfortunately steriods. So there is alot of very knowledgeable people here) The guys who helped set up my training & nutrition program based on my goals of losing fat and gaining muscle told me if I bust my *kitten* and follow these guidlines I will acheive my goals. And guess what? I did!!! And it wasnt that big of deal or some type of miracle to them because they excpected it. And they just didnt pull my program out of their *kitten*, they knew exactly what I should do. Now I have no reason to fib or mislead anyone because I am estatic about how I look regardless of if I gained any LM or not. Losing 82 lb's and currently weighing 204lbs is more than enough. But the truth of the matter is, my arms, shoulder, chest calves, forearms and traps are larger now then were last March when I weighed 82 lbs more. ( the tape measure never lie's) I posted pics prior to gaining weight (and yes when you gain fat you can gain muscle but the majority of that muscle will be in your legs and core from carrying the extra weight, but as you can clearly see in the pics that was not the case for me) I then posted a link to an article from Lance Armstrong's website that was posted Jan. 2012 that stated that you can gain LM. while cutting weight and was almost identical to the program that the guys at the gym put me on last March. And every other bit of advice they have given me about lifting,form, splits etc. have been right on the money. They taught me in 2 months what it would have taken me years to learn on my own. Thats why I always take the time to help other's here, because one year ago I was clueless and if it wasnt for their help I still would be.
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I passed by there on my way to Hershey Park from VA. Nice place. But unless those guys wrote peer reviewed studies, it's still anecdotal.I tried to get out and they drug me back in!!:happy:
Niner, The reason we dont agree is because When I started working out, ( I am very fortunate to be from the birthplace of BBing, weight/ power Lifting, Bob Hoffman's Legendary York Barbell Gym, The home of the Weight Lifting Hall of Fame, and unfortunately steriods. So there is alot of very knowledgeable people here) The guys who helped set up my training & nutrition program based on my goals of losing fat and gaining muscle told me if I bust my *kitten* and follow these guidlines I will acheive my goals. And guess what? I did!!! And it wasnt that big of deal or some type of miracle to them because they excpected it. And they just didnt pull my program out of their *kitten*, they knew exactly what I should do. Now I have no reason to fib or mislead anyone because I am estatic about how I look regardless of if I gained any LM or not. Losing 82 lb's and currently weighing 204lbs is more than enough.
Lol, really? You've never seen guys with huge upper body and no legs? If you have that would totally trump what you've stated about gaining majority of muscle in your legs and core. And you're right the tape may not lie, but the circumstances under measurement can come under scrutiny. A muscle full of glycogen and water is FULLER than one that's not trained. You weren't training before (apparently) so the muscle lacked those elements. Unless you're going to try to convince us that you were working out at that time too.But the truth of the matter is, my arms, shoulder, chest calves, forearms and traps are larger now then were last March when I weighed 82 lbs more. ( the tape measure never lie's) I posted pics prior to gaining weight (and yes when you gain fat you can gain muscle but the majority of that muscle will be in your legs and core from carrying the extra weight, but as you can clearly see in the pics that was not the case for me) I then posted a link to an article from Lance Armstrong's website that was posted Jan. 2012 that stated that you can gain LM. while cutting weight and was almost identical to the program that the guys at the gym put me on last March.
You won't be convinced. I've already stated that. Somehow you feel you defied the natural laws of how thermodynamics works. That's cool if that's what you believe, but I (and others) can't sit by a have some say that gaining muscle on calorie deficit is a reality when study after study and common mathematics don't show it to be true. Your evidence is anecdotal at best, and if you're content with it, then be content. But if you're going to challenge actual science, then you need to come up with actual studies (not opinions, blogs, articles, etc.) to refute it.And every other bit of advice they have given me about lifting,form, splits etc. have been right on the money. They taught me in 2 months what it would have taken me years to learn on my own. Thats why I always take the time to help other's here, because one year ago I was clueless and if it wasnt for their help I still would be.
We have already discussed the types of people who can gain a little muscle on calorie deficit and have mentioned that the amount is not a lot, so don't try to use that as evidence. You're speaking of a large amount of muscle that you've claimed, so stick with it.
Still kudos to you for your achievement.
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And you're right the tape may not lie, but the circumstances under measurement can come under scrutiny. A muscle full of glycogen and water is FULLER than one that's not trained. You weren't training before (apparently) so the muscle lacked those elements. Unless you're going to try to convince us that you were working out at that time too.
Niner, First I want to mention how great you look in your pic.'s ( I wanted to mention that in my last post but forgot)
Second, glycogen and water and water levels fluctuate( you forgot to mention this) So my measurements would fluctuate aswell .
I dont feel I defied the natural laws of how theemodynamics work, ( I didnt even realize that others thought it wasnt possible until I joined MFP.) Also there are were numerous others posters who stated they gained muscle in this thread, they must have defied the laws of nature aswell.You won't be convinced. I've already stated that. Somehow you feel you defied the natural laws of how thermodynamics works. That's cool if that's what you believe, but I (and others) can't sit by a have some say that gaining muscle on calorie deficit is a reality when study after study and common mathematics don't show it to be true. Your evidence is anecdotal at best, and if you're content with it, then be content. But if you're going to challenge actual science, then you need to come up with actual studies (not opinions, blogs, articles, etc.) to refute it.
We have already discussed the types of people who can gain a little muscle on calorie deficit and have mentioned that the amount is not a lot, so don't try to use that as evidence. You're speaking of a large amount of muscle that you've claimed, so stick with it.
Still kudos to you for your achievement.
If its studies you want, studies you will have (at some point this weekend) I have already googled them but didnt post them cause It was a waste of time because you wouldnt believe them anyway.
Yes we have discussed the types of people that can gain muscle on a calorie deficit,
Overweight beginners and experienced lifters who are just getting back into lifting, (THE EXACT PEOPLE THAT WHO I STARTED THIS THREAD FOR) But dont put words in my mouth, I never stated that I gained a large amount of muscle, I dont even know how much LM. I gained. ONCE AGAIN THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD WAS SO BEGINNERS THINKING ABOUT LIFTING DIDNT GET THE IDEA THAT LIFTING WASNT BENEFICIAL OR A WASTE OF TIME IF THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF LOSING FAT.0 -
Good article but to me it's focusing on Body Recomposition versus Mass gains, not the same thing. On a calorie deficit for a while now and my body has re-comped nicely and it's still going and I've gained a lot of strength, set some new PR's. But I'm really not getting any bigger. I've gained a little size but nothing I would consider Mass gain.
I recommend going to Dr. John Berardi's website if you want some other opinions on this subject. He's a scientist, former Olympian, and trains athletes, he knows his stuff. I think his website is www.precisionnutrition.com.0 -
Good article but to me it's focusing on Body Recomposition versus Mass gains, not the same thing. On a calorie deficit for a while now and my body has re-comped nicely and it's still going and I've gained a lot of strength, set some new PR's. But I'm really not getting any bigger. I've gained a little size but nothing I would consider Mass gain.
I recommend going to Dr. John Berardi's website if you want some other opinions on this subject. He's a scientist, former Olympian, and trains athletes, he knows his stuff. I think his website is www.precisionnutrition.com.
If one couldn't gain any muscle and you were losing fat all this time, you'd be noticably smaller right? Being the same size or slighly larger would indicate slight muscle mass gains.0 -
Niner, Also I have a question regarding strength gains. Even though we agree to disagree on the topic of this thread, I still value your opinion, Please dont think that im trying claim that strength gains is proof etc. of gaining muscle because im not!! I stated this in a prior post in this thread, But in your opinion lets use bench for example, can a beginner increase their max bench 50- 100- 125 lbs etc. from just improving their form and strengthening their existing lean muscle, ligaments, tendons etc without a gain in lean muscle? Once again Im not implying increasing your bench etc. is proof that you gained LM. Just curious to see is there limitations to strength gains from improving form and the strengthing of your existing lean muscle, ligaments and tendons. Thanks.0
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Good article but to me it's focusing on Body Recomposition versus Mass gains, not the same thing. On a calorie deficit for a while now and my body has re-comped nicely and it's still going and I've gained a lot of strength, set some new PR's. But I'm really not getting any bigger. I've gained a little size but nothing I would consider Mass gain.
I recommend going to Dr. John Berardi's website if you want some other opinions on this subject. He's a scientist, former Olympian, and trains athletes, he knows his stuff. I think his website is www.precisionnutrition.com.
If one couldn't gain any muscle and you were losing fat all this time, you'd be noticably smaller right? Being the same size or slighly larger would indicate slight muscle mass gains.
Getting Massive versus gaining a little size from strength training is not the same thing folks. Niner mentioned the Law of Thermodynamics. Think about this and use the bodybuilder example again. When bodybuilders go to gain Mass for competitions they go on a major calorie surplus. They gain muscle and a little fat. Then, when they go into contest prep they go on a calorie deficit and they lose a small percentage of their Mass in the process. Some more than others depending on how good they are at managing their diet but they do lose some Mass.
I'm not saying that you won't gain some size because for a muscle to get stronger it must grow but that's not the same as sheer Mass gain.0 -
I think there is a general conflation here of a few different factors. I'm not a 'muscle' scientist, but a some quick reading leads me to think this is generally what's going on here.
I see a couple of people suggesting you may be able to 'tone' and 'strengthen' existing muscle, but not add new muscle while eating a calorie deficit. There are some tricky semantics and tricky biology involved here. Muscle gets bigger in two ways: hypertrophy, which is an increase in size and mass without the addition of new muscle fibers, and hyperplasia, which is an increase in size via addition of new fibers. It is possible that hypertrophy may not result in increased strength, as the additional bulk comes from tissue types not mediating contractions (scar tissue, etc).
This type of tissue can be added readily as a wound-healing process. Muscle soreness from inflammation drives cell swelling and inflammatory mediators to collect in the tissues. As the wounds heal, some scar-tissue like elements may be added, increasing bulk. Wound healing most certainly occurs when in caloric deficit, this there is no reason to suspect that this type of muscle growth can not also occur.
Hyperplasia is most commonly induced by sustained and/or intense loading of the muscles - again, microtears are healed, but also complex cell-signaling cascades are initiated that result in the division and multiplication of new muscle fibres. This is a eneregetically-expensive anabolic process, thus when calories are tight it's less likely to occur, but it's not impossible.
- In short, if you eat a caloric deficit you can certainly increase muscle bulk via hypertrophy. As compared with eating an excess, a smaller portion of the overall growth may come from the separate process of hyperplasia, but it may still occur. Just to a lesser extreme.
So in even shorter - yes, you can 'add muscle' on a caloric deficit.
And let me again iterate that this is based on a general knowledge of human physiology, but I am not, nor do I claim to be, an expert on muscles.
I will have to go with what she says above anyone else here as it appears to me she knows her stuff.0 -
Niner, Also I have a question regarding strength gains. Even though we agree to disagree on the topic of this thread, I still value your opinion, Please dont think that im trying claim that strength gains is proof etc. of gaining muscle because im not!! I stated this in a prior post in this thread, But in your opinion lets use bench for example, can a beginner increase their max bench 50- 100- 125 lbs etc. from just improving their form and strengthening their existing lean muscle, ligaments, tendons etc without a gain in lean muscle? Once again Im not implying increasing your bench etc. is proof that you gained LM. Just curious to see is there limitations to strength gains from improving form and the strengthing of your existing lean muscle, ligaments and tendons. Thanks.
Not Niner and can't speak the soft tissue strengthening but one can easily put 50lbs on their bench in a short-time just by fixing their bench form. Staying more stable on the bench, good arch, squeeze and pull the bar apart, breathing, etc are huge.0 -
While I don't disagree on that, there is a SIGNIFICANT difference of glycogen/water storage from a muscle that's being trained and one that's not. Up to 1.5 - 2 inches average.Niner, First I want to mention how great you look in your pic.'s ( I wanted to mention that in my last post but forgot)
Second, glycogen and water and water levels fluctuate( you forgot to mention this) So my measurements would fluctuate aswell .
I read studies. Especially peer reviewed clinical studies since that's where I base most of my philosophy on. Post them.I dont feel I defied the natural laws of how theemodynamics work, ( I didnt even realize that others thought it wasnt possible until I joined MFP.) Also there are were numerous others posters who stated they gained muscle in this thread, they must have defied the laws of nature aswell.
If its studies you want, studies you will have (at some point this weekend) I have already googled them but didnt post them cause It was a waste of time because you wouldnt believe them anyway.
Nah, I think you started the thread to try to prove that substantial muscle could be gained while losing weight. Again, no negativity on what you achieved for yourself, I just don't buy your analogy. Trust me when I say I used to believe what you do now (24 years ago), but when I was actually "schooled" by a professor of physiology and really couldn't find any actual research to back what I had been taught, I had to concede that what I learned was from people whom I trusted and really didn't question. It's okay to admit error.Yes we have discussed the types of people that can gain muscle on a calorie deficit,
Overweight beginners and experienced lifters who are just getting back into lifting, (THE EXACT PEOPLE THAT WHO I STARTED THIS THREAD FOR) But dont put words in my mouth, I never stated that I gained a large amount of muscle, I dont even know how much LM. I gained. ONCE AGAIN THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD WAS SO BEGINNERS THINKING ABOUT LIFTING DIDNT GET THE IDEA THAT LIFTING WASNT BENEFICIAL OR A WASTE OF TIME IF THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF LOSING FAT.
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Since I have started eating healthy and going down the gym I have lost 70Lb and I can now lift more than I could at the start.
When I mentioned to medical people (doctors and nutritionists) as well as gym trainer that I was thinking about dropping the strength training to allow more time for cardio as it burns more calories I got told to keep up the strength training as it is important to build muscle strength up whilst losing weight.
Yes, but maintaining muscle strength and muscle tissue is a far different thing than building new muscle.
I lost 59lbs over a couple of years - my BF% decreased from 49% to 29 - and my fat mass from 96lbs and 116 lbs lean to 52 lbs... and 125 lbs muscle etc.....Which means that I GAINED 9lbs of muscle while losing fat and not training with heavy weighs, but doing consistant resistance training and cardio...
It can be done....0 -
Good article but to me it's focusing on Body Recomposition versus Mass gains, not the same thing. On a calorie deficit for a while now and my body has re-comped nicely and it's still going and I've gained a lot of strength, set some new PR's. But I'm really not getting any bigger. I've gained a little size but nothing I would consider Mass gain.
I recommend going to Dr. John Berardi's website if you want some other opinions on this subject. He's a scientist, former Olympian, and trains athletes, he knows his stuff. I think his website is www.precisionnutrition.com.
If one couldn't gain any muscle and you were losing fat all this time, you'd be noticably smaller right? Being the same size or slighly larger would indicate slight muscle mass gains.
Getting Massive versus gaining a little size from strength training is not the same thing folks. Niner mentioned the Law of Thermodynamics. Think about this and use the bodybuilder example again. When bodybuilders go to gain Mass for competitions they go on a major calorie surplus. They gain muscle and a little fat. Then, when they go into contest prep they go on a calorie deficit and they lose a small percentage of their Mass in the process. Some more than others depending on how good they are at managing their diet but they do lose some Mass.
I'm not saying that you won't gain some size because for a muscle to get stronger it must grow but that's not the same as sheer Mass gain.
No one in this thread ever claimed to be "massively" bigger while in a calorie deficit. I"m not sure why that gets mixed up in these conversations when no one makes claims that are even remotely close to that.0 -
Cougar just for the record, I never claimed I or any oher person could get "massive"" while on a deficit. And this thread was inteded for beginners or experienced lifters that took a long period of time off that were considering taking up weight lifting or getting back into tit after a long layoff and currently cutting. 99% of the members of MFP. are not experienced BBer's who do bulking and cutting phases to gain maxium amount of LM. and then cutting under 10% from 15-20% BF.Good article but to me it's focusing on Body Recomposition versus Mass gains, not the same thing. On a calorie deficit for a while now and my body has re-comped nicely and it's still going and I've gained a lot of strength, set some new PR's. But I'm really not getting any bigger. I've gained a little size but nothing I would consider Mass gain.
I recommend going to Dr. John Berardi's website if you want some other opinions on this subject. He's a scientist, former Olympian, and trains athletes, he knows his stuff. I think his website is www.precisionnutrition.com.
If one couldn't gain any muscle and you were losing fat all this time, you'd be noticably smaller right? Being the same size or slighly larger would indicate slight muscle mass gains.
Getting Massive versus gaining a little size from strength training is not the same thing folks. Niner mentioned the Law of Thermodynamics. Think about this and use the bodybuilder example again. When bodybuilders go to gain Mass for competitions they go on a major calorie surplus. They gain muscle and a little fat. Then, when they go into contest prep they go on a calorie deficit and they lose a small percentage of their Mass in the process. Some more than others depending on how good they are at managing their diet but they do lose some Mass.
I'm not saying that you won't gain some size because for a muscle to get stronger it must grow but that's not the same as sheer Mass gain.0 -
Show Me just one post were I stated that. Dont waste my time by trying to put words in my mouth!!
While I don't disagree on that, there is a SIGNIFICANT difference of glycogen/water storage from a muscle that's being trained and one that's not. Up to 1.5 - 2 inches average.Niner, First I want to mention how great you look in your pic.'s ( I wanted to mention that in my last post but forgot)
Second, glycogen and water and water levels fluctuate( you forgot to mention this) So my measurements would fluctuate aswell .
I read studies. Especially peer reviewed clinical studies since that's where I base most of my philosophy on. Post them.I dont feel I defied the natural laws of how theemodynamics work, ( I didnt even realize that others thought it wasnt possible until I joined MFP.) Also there are were numerous others posters who stated they gained muscle in this thread, they must have defied the laws of nature aswell.
If its studies you want, studies you will have (at some point this weekend) I have already googled them but didnt post them cause It was a waste of time because you wouldnt believe them anyway.
Nah, I think you started the thread to try to prove that substantial muscle could be gained while losing weight. Again, no negativity on what you achieved for yourself, I just don't buy your analogy. Trust me when I say I used to believe what you do now (24 years ago), but when I was actually "schooled" by a professor of physiology and really couldn't find any actual research to back what I had been taught, I had to concede that what I learned was from people whom I trusted and really didn't question. It's okay to admit error.Yes we have discussed the types of people that can gain muscle on a calorie deficit,
Overweight beginners and experienced lifters who are just getting back into lifting, (THE EXACT PEOPLE THAT WHO I STARTED THIS THREAD FOR) But dont put words in my mouth, I never stated that I gained a large amount of muscle, I dont even know how much LM. I gained. ONCE AGAIN THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD WAS SO BEGINNERS THINKING ABOUT LIFTING DIDNT GET THE IDEA THAT LIFTING WASNT BENEFICIAL OR A WASTE OF TIME IF THEY WERE IN THE PROCESS OF LOSING FAT.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Cougar just for the record, I never claimed I or any oher person could get "massive"" while on a deficit. And this thread was inteded for beginners or experienced lifters that took a long period of time off that were considering taking up weight lifting or getting back into tit after a long layoff and currently cutting. 99% of the members of MFP. are not experienced BBer's who do bulking and cutting phases to gain maxium amount of LM. and then cutting under 10% from 15-20% BF.Good article but to me it's focusing on Body Recomposition versus Mass gains, not the same thing. On a calorie deficit for a while now and my body has re-comped nicely and it's still going and I've gained a lot of strength, set some new PR's. But I'm really not getting any bigger. I've gained a little size but nothing I would consider Mass gain.
I recommend going to Dr. John Berardi's website if you want some other opinions on this subject. He's a scientist, former Olympian, and trains athletes, he knows his stuff. I think his website is www.precisionnutrition.com.
If one couldn't gain any muscle and you were losing fat all this time, you'd be noticably smaller right? Being the same size or slighly larger would indicate slight muscle mass gains.
Getting Massive versus gaining a little size from strength training is not the same thing folks. Niner mentioned the Law of Thermodynamics. Think about this and use the bodybuilder example again. When bodybuilders go to gain Mass for competitions they go on a major calorie surplus. They gain muscle and a little fat. Then, when they go into contest prep they go on a calorie deficit and they lose a small percentage of their Mass in the process. Some more than others depending on how good they are at managing their diet but they do lose some Mass.
I'm not saying that you won't gain some size because for a muscle to get stronger it must grow but that's not the same as sheer Mass gain.
Agreed, 99% of MFP population is not in that boat. However I also read the threads and the most common thing I see are women concerned about getting bulky while training on a calorie deficit. This thread can be horribly misleading to somebody with that fear.0
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