You Can Gain Muscle On A Calorie Deficit!!

jg627

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight.

So the mother was on a calorie deficit and lost weight? What's your point? LOL. A portion of a pregnant mother's calories obviously go to the baby and the baby is going to grow. You didn't really prove anything there, nice try though.

Noob question, I know, but aren't babies made of protein too?

JNick77

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight.

So the mother was on a calorie deficit and lost weight? What's your point? LOL. A portion of a pregnant mother's calories obviously go to the baby and the baby is going to grow. You didn't really prove anything there, nice try though.

Noob question, I know, but aren't babies made of protein too?

Sure. And you can have more than adequate protein in a calorie deficit. But think about this... If the average baby at birth is what 6 or 7lbs, how many calories does that baby need to grow? Maybe 100 calories per day? So if the mother is already overweight and put on a diet. Even if the baby consumes 100 of the calories it needs to grow the mother will still lose weight and the baby will grow.

2April

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight.

So the mother was on a calorie deficit and lost weight? What's your point? LOL. A portion of a pregnant mother's calories obviously go to the baby and the baby is going to grow. You didn't really prove anything there, nice try though.

My point is (to use your analogy) that fat cells are like having gas in the engine so building (be it babies or muscles) while on a caloric deficit does not violate any scientific law.
Does this help you understand or do you need further clarification?

Ripken818836701

You're the 2nd person to use leg lifts and a number around 150lbs. This guy increased his BENCH 150lbs. And I think he was out of lifting for well over a year. Probably 5 years? 10?

Again, have you read anything in this thread that indicates he paid particular attention do his diet and training to maximize his lifts w/o trying to gain mucsle mass? I didn't. I also didn't try to assign all of that gain to muscle mass gains. But I didn't EXCLUDE any one reason either.

Jeff I hadnt lifted in like 18-19 years prior to last year. But as a kid I worked at the legendary York Barbell Gym after school

jg627

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight.

So the mother was on a calorie deficit and lost weight? What's your point? LOL. A portion of a pregnant mother's calories obviously go to the baby and the baby is going to grow. You didn't really prove anything there, nice try though.

Noob question, I know, but aren't babies made of protein too?

Sure. And you can have more than adequate protein in a calorie deficit. But think about this... If the average baby at birth is what 6 or 7lbs, how many calories does that baby need to grow? Maybe 100 calories per day? So if the mother is already overweight and put on a diet. Even if the baby consumes 100 of the calories it needs to grow the mother will still lose weight and the baby will grow.

There's a little bit more to it than just a 7 lb baby that comes out. I don't suggest looking.

ArroganceInStep

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight. Energy is stored in our fat cells, this is why growth, including muscular growth, is possible even while a person is losing weight. This does not violate the law of thermodynamics.

There's also a reason prenatal suggestions are all very careful about the degree of calorie restriction, as it can cause problems for the fetus.

Your body prioritizes energy expenditure.

Reproduction comes before muscle growth.

Ripken818836701

And we go again...........

I suppose it depends. Some muscle groups aren't as affected by his weight than others.

Jeff how often do we have to go around and around the circle? Until one of us runs out of gas or until you realize the facts?

Which is it?

Oh yeah, "until I realize the facts". Great logic there. I recommened you post into a threat of the other guys' success and you declined. I'm not going to debat this guy's gains as he obviously had alot of fat stores. But muscle groups like the bicept / tricep aren't going to be worked like the back/legs on a heavy person

I truely fail to see your point here.
Biceps and Triceps get worked by doing almost every other lifting exercise you do. Maybe I misunderstood what you're saying.

Then how comes I didnt gain any muscle in my calves from gaining and carring around an extra 83 lbs for years? And how comes my calves as of March were an inch larger than they were when I started to workout and lose weight? Also how comes I could wrap my hand around my arm above my wrist and could easily touch my thumb and middle finger together and now there is about an inch between the two? I guess I gained all my muscle from getting fat in my bi's, tri's and traps?

Ripken818836701

Also I understand what you guys are saying about different, lighting, poses, angles camera's etc. can make a person look larger etc. But show me just one pic. out of the dozen or so pics I have posted that was taken in an earlier month that the camera, lighting, pose. angle etc. made me look larger than any pic. that was taken at a later date. Just one!!
No one ???

jg627

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight. Energy is stored in our fat cells, this is why growth, including muscular growth, is possible even while a person is losing weight. This does not violate the law of thermodynamics.

There's also a reason prenatal suggestions are all very careful about the degree of calorie restriction, as it can cause problems for the fetus.

Your body prioritizes energy expenditure.

Reproduction comes before muscle growth.

Your hormones control how the energy and nutrients are used. As soon as you become pregnant your estrogen starts taking over. That's why steroids can make you gain significant size even on a large deficit, because you are artificially introducing more testosterone, but nobody wants to see a zit back in the locker room. That's nasty.
Also, if you are really overweight, testosterone goes down and estrogen goes up in men. That's how we get man boobs.

2April

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight. Energy is stored in our fat cells, this is why growth, including muscular growth, is possible even while a person is losing weight. This does not violate the law of thermodynamics.

There's also a reason prenatal suggestions are all very careful about the degree of calorie restriction, as it can cause problems for the fetus.

Your body prioritizes energy expenditure.

Reproduction comes before muscle growth.

Luckily the OP wasn't pregnant while trying to gain muscle on a deficit then.

Ripken818836701

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight. Energy is stored in our fat cells, this is why growth, including muscular growth, is possible even while a person is losing weight. This does not violate the law of thermodynamics.

There's also a reason prenatal suggestions are all very careful about the degree of calorie restriction, as it can cause problems for the fetus.

Your body prioritizes energy expenditure.

Reproduction comes before muscle growth.

Luckily the OP wasn't pregnant while trying to gain muscle on a deficit then.

LMAO!

ArroganceInStep

Also I understand what you guys are saying about different, lighting, poses, angles camera's etc. can make a person look larger etc. But show me just one pic. out of the dozen or so pics I have posted that was taken in an earlier month that the camera, lighting, pose. angle etc. made me look larger than any pic. that was taken at a later date. Just one!!
No one ???

I believe that was originally directed at me. I had responded saying I didn't want to try to speak to the specifics of your pictures because I thought it would come off as a personal attack. I do think you look substantially fitter in your later pictures, but I don't think that muscle growth you were speaking about is large enough to be considered massive muscle growth. I think it looks bigger than it actually is because there's so much (74 lbs) less of you.

Ripken818836701

Since no one repsonded to this question in the previous thread before it got locked: How comes in the pic. below from Oct-2011, my clothes look way to big and just hanging off me everywhere except for my shoulders and lats where my shirt is very tight? When I go to my house in FL. I was so acustomed to just grabbing my back and heading to the airport that I kept forgeting to pack new clothes so I kept wearing the same clothes that I had in FL.

JNick77

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight.

So the mother was on a calorie deficit and lost weight? What's your point? LOL. A portion of a pregnant mother's calories obviously go to the baby and the baby is going to grow. You didn't really prove anything there, nice try though.

My point is (to use your analogy) that fat cells are like having gas in the engine so building (be it babies or muscles) while on a caloric deficit does not violate any scientific law.
Does this help you understand or do you need further clarification?

The fat cells comment wasn't mine. I'm saying the baby is getting the calories it needs to grow from it's mother. The calories a fetus needs is only a small fraction of the mother's in-take.

ArroganceInStep

Luckily the OP wasn't pregnant while trying to gain muscle on a deficit then.

Fair point, but that heavily glosses over the fact that a lot of other stuff is going on too. If you are not taking in enough to survive, your body is forced to pillage energy stores it has set aside. More of these stores can be taken from a larger person, hence them being able to safely handle larger deficits, but ultimately as your deficit gets bigger your body will pillage lean mass as well.

If your body is in a deficit, and burning fat and muscle for energy (obviously less muscle if you're eating right and working out), why would it waste some of that energy to build new muscle? In extreme cases (completely new lifter, very obese person with tons of fat stores, lifter coming off a long vacation) your body is *forced to grow new mass based on the new demands being placed on it or the relative abundance of stored energy in the person's body fat. Those gains won't be substantial though, as it's more efficient to condition the muscles and make them stronger via the things already listed previously.

ArroganceInStep

Since no one repsonded to this question in the previous thread before it got locked: How comes in the pic. below from Oct-2011, my clothes look way to big and just hanging off me everywhere except for my shoulders and lats where my shirt is very tight? When I go to my house in FL. I was so acustomed to just grabbing my back and heading to the airport that I kept forgeting to pack new clothes so I kept wearing the same clothes that I had in FL.

I commented just above you.

Jeff92se

Also I understand what you guys are saying about different, lighting, poses, angles camera's etc. can make a person look larger etc. But show me just one pic. out of the dozen or so pics I have posted that was taken in an earlier month that the camera, lighting, pose. angle etc. made me look larger than any pic. that was taken at a later date. Just one!!
No one ???

I believe that was originally directed at me. I had responded saying I didn't want to try to speak to the specifics of your pictures because I thought it would come off as a personal attack. I do think you look substantially fitter in your later pictures, but I don't think that muscle growth you were speaking about is large enough to be considered massive muscle growth. I think it looks bigger than it actually is because there's so much (74 lbs) less of you.

I missed where the op mentions massive

2April

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight.

So the mother was on a calorie deficit and lost weight? What's your point? LOL. A portion of a pregnant mother's calories obviously go to the baby and the baby is going to grow. You didn't really prove anything there, nice try though.

My point is (to use your analogy) that fat cells are like having gas in the engine so building (be it babies or muscles) while on a caloric deficit does not violate any scientific law.
Does this help you understand or do you need further clarification?

The fat cells comment wasn't mine. I'm saying the baby is getting the calories it needs to grow from it's mother. The calories a fetus needs is only a small fraction of the mother's in-take.

So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake.

JNick77

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight. Energy is stored in our fat cells, this is why growth, including muscular growth, is possible even while a person is losing weight. This does not violate the law of thermodynamics.

There's also a reason prenatal suggestions are all very careful about the degree of calorie restriction, as it can cause problems for the fetus.

Your body prioritizes energy expenditure.

Reproduction comes before muscle growth.

Your hormones control how the energy and nutrients are used. As soon as you become pregnant your estrogen starts taking over. That's why steroids can make you gain significant size even on a large deficit, because you are artificially introducing more testosterone, but nobody wants to see a zit back in the locker room. That's nasty.
Also, if you are really overweight, testosterone goes down and estrogen goes up in men. That's how we get man boobs.

Bodybuilders still eat excess calories while on steroids to gain mass, steroids alone do not inhibit hypertrophy. If your diet and programming are **** even while on steroids you're not going to gain much. The steroids may help reduce catabolism while on a cut. I'll out myself here... I'm a TRT patient and take steroids weekly. I'm also on a calorie deficit, my mass has not increased. My strength has increased gradually over time but no mass benefit.

Estrogen goes up in the presence of high bodyfat, not just being overweight. Have you see a pro powerlifter lately? Those dudes are typically very overweight and I guarantee you there's no shortage of T in that bunch.

ArroganceInStep

So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake.

It would if there were ample calories available. As it is your body is already pillaging stores for the energy to survive. In extreme cases that have been listed dozens of times minimal growth is possible, but beyond that no.

JNick77

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight.

So the mother was on a calorie deficit and lost weight? What's your point? LOL. A portion of a pregnant mother's calories obviously go to the baby and the baby is going to grow. You didn't really prove anything there, nice try though.

My point is (to use your analogy) that fat cells are like having gas in the engine so building (be it babies or muscles) while on a caloric deficit does not violate any scientific law.
Does this help you understand or do you need further clarification?

The fat cells comment wasn't mine. I'm saying the baby is getting the calories it needs to grow from it's mother. The calories a fetus needs is only a small fraction of the mother's in-take.

So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake.

LOL, you're trolling right? LMAO

Ripken818836701

Also I understand what you guys are saying about different, lighting, poses, angles camera's etc. can make a person look larger etc. But show me just one pic. out of the dozen or so pics I have posted that was taken in an earlier month that the camera, lighting, pose. angle etc. made me look larger than any pic. that was taken at a later date. Just one!!
No one ???

I believe that was originally directed at me. I had responded saying I didn't want to try to speak to the specifics of your pictures because I thought it would come off as a personal attack. I do think you look substantially fitter in your later pictures, but I don't think that muscle growth you were speaking about is large enough to be considered massive muscle growth. I think it looks bigger than it actually is because there's so much (74 lbs) less of you.

First I never said the words massive muscle growth!! It wasnt directed at anyone but dont worry. I wouldnt take any comments about my previous appearance as a personal attack etc.
But if you cant see the difference between these 2 pics taken in May and Oct. either you need to get your eyes checked or I do. :bigsmile: Its funny how people give me and the guys who helped me credit for being able to make a such a transformation but doubt that myelf, the guys who helped me and my Dr. know how to properly read a tape measure.

ArroganceInStep

I missed where the op mentions massive

I already responded to this. In the first thread mention of 10 lbs of muscle to increase arms by 1 inch, and that was just in one arm. I consider that to be massive growth.

Edit to respond to Pike: I had mentioned a couple of things that could cause your muscles to appear larger. But with a tape measure I don't recall you posting exact measurements. All I recall is the comparison of your hand wrapping around your forearm and the tightness of your old clothes around your upper body. As for needing my eyes checked. I work in front of a computer for a living so it's possible .

Jeff92se

I missed where the op mentions massive

I already responded to this. In the first thread mention of 10 lbs of muscle to increase arms by 1 inch, and that was just in one arm. I consider that to be massive growth.

How did he do that while on a deficit? Are you not believing the measurements or not believing he was on a deficit at the time?

Ripken818836701

I dont consider 10lbs of added muscle as massive for an over weight newbie.

ArroganceInStep

How did he do that while on a deficit? Are you not believing the measurements or not believing he was on a deficit at the time?

Please read some of my previous posts as I've been repeating this a lot. There are reasons other than muscle mass increase (water retention, glycogen are the two ones I'm familiar with) that the size of one's arms might increase. I also think saying 10lbs per inch for everybody is an over-generalization. Further the measurment techniques were imprecise (I did mention not remembering a reference to specific tape measurements already as well). I think a combination of those things could explain the scenario.

I dont consider 10lbs of added muscle as massive for an over weight newbie.

And that has been our fundamental disagreement from the beginning. Regardless of who's right, you're doing a fantastic job and I hope you stick with it. Maybe next time take more measurements though, it's a lot easier to scroll through that then a whole mess of pictures =P.

Jeff92se

I dont consider 10lbs of added muscle as massive for an over weight newbie.

10lbs / 250lbs = 0.04% increase. MASSIVE! :drinker:

2April

Luckily the OP wasn't pregnant while trying to gain muscle on a deficit then.

Fair point, but that heavily glosses over the fact that a lot of other stuff is going on too. If you are not taking in enough to survive, your body is forced to pillage energy stores it has set aside. More of these stores can be taken from a larger person, hence them being able to safely handle larger deficits, but ultimately as your deficit gets bigger your body will pillage lean mass as well.

If your body is in a deficit, and burning fat and muscle for energy (obviously less muscle if you're eating right and working out), why would it waste some of that energy to build new muscle? In extreme cases (completely new lifter, very obese person with tons of fat stores, lifter coming off a long vacation) your body is *forced to grow new mass based on the new demands being placed on it or the relative abundance of stored energy in the person's body fat. Those gains won't be substantial though, as it's more efficient to condition the muscles and make them stronger via the things already listed previously.

My point is that building muscle on a caloric deficit is scientifically possible (not ideal). Overweight people who lift tend not to have lifted for a long time (if ever) so these aren't really extreme cases. No one is suggesting that an experienced, normal weight lifter should try to gain mass while eating at a deficit.

Also, I think that the OP has clearly gained muscles in his arms, shoulders, and chest. His musculature was poorly developed in the earlier photos and was not simply hiding under the fat.

jg627

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight. Energy is stored in our fat cells, this is why growth, including muscular growth, is possible even while a person is losing weight. This does not violate the law of thermodynamics.

There's also a reason prenatal suggestions are all very careful about the degree of calorie restriction, as it can cause problems for the fetus.

Your body prioritizes energy expenditure.

Reproduction comes before muscle growth.

Your hormones control how the energy and nutrients are used. As soon as you become pregnant your estrogen starts taking over. That's why steroids can make you gain significant size even on a large deficit, because you are artificially introducing more testosterone, but nobody wants to see a zit back in the locker room. That's nasty.
Also, if you are really overweight, testosterone goes down and estrogen goes up in men. That's how we get man boobs.

Bodybuilders still eat excess calories while on steroids to gain mass, steroids alone do not inhibit hypertrophy. If your diet and programming are **** even while on steroids you're not going to gain much. The steroids may help reduce catabolism while on a cut. I'll out myself here... I'm a TRT patient and take steroids weekly. I'm also on a calorie deficit, my mass has not increased. My strength has increased gradually over time but no mass benefit.

Estrogen goes up in the presence of high bodyfat, not just being overweight. Have you see a pro powerlifter lately? Those dudes are typically very overweight and I guarantee you there's no shortage of T in that bunch.

By 'overweight' I thought it was assumed that I meant fat or lard *kitten* without having to sound mean, and yes, stressing your muscles is how you increase testosterone, so I would imagine powerlifters have a lot of it. I was referring to my own situation a year ago eating boston creams and playing video games.

2April

I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight.

So the mother was on a calorie deficit and lost weight? What's your point? LOL. A portion of a pregnant mother's calories obviously go to the baby and the baby is going to grow. You didn't really prove anything there, nice try though.

My point is (to use your analogy) that fat cells are like having gas in the engine so building (be it babies or muscles) while on a caloric deficit does not violate any scientific law.
Does this help you understand or do you need further clarification?

The fat cells comment wasn't mine. I'm saying the baby is getting the calories it needs to grow from it's mother. The calories a fetus needs is only a small fraction of the mother's in-take.

So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake.

LOL, you're trolling right? LMAO

No...if you have an answer i'd like to hear it.