You Can Gain Muscle On A Calorie Deficit!!

clifbell

I've been lifting for several years. I am not bulked up looking, but I have always gone to the gym regularly since college. So far, I have been able to maintain my currently lifting during my weight loss. I do supplement with whey protein before and after weight lifting (110 calories each before and after). I only lift twice a week as I am 57 years old. But I still can bench 305 pounds and leg press 500 pounds. I will worry about gaining muscle mass after I lose another 15-20 pounds. I did lose a little strength until I added the supplements right before and after my workouts.

This might be psychological only, but I will take it either way. I always been called a mental case by my friends anyway.

ArroganceInStep

I used his arms because that's what he referenced. Why would I think he only gained in his arms and not everywhere else?

Question is do you think he's smaller? You didn't think so. You only said he's "about the same" or "not much bigger". Now you are stating that even if he stayed the same, he would have had decent gains.

That's what I've stated. By your own testimony of the pictures.

I have stated numerous times that I think he has gained some small amount of muscle mass. I also referenced the pictures with respect to the areas he was referring to (arms, shoulders, chest) and stated that I didn't see a massive difference. At what point did I say he would have had decent gains to stay the same? Also decent gains in what?

You STILL haven't answered my question.

For the record, I stated that for every 10lb's of LM. you gain you will gain 1 inch in your arms. That is not saying you wont also gain LM. feom that same 10lb.s in other parts of your body aswell. But like I also stated, in my opinion, different people have different genetics, different genetic potential and different body types, height,length of arms, legs etc. So in my opinion its a cookie cutter statement.

I did reference your original quote, if you're saying that 10lbs total muscle mass gain will result in a 1 inch increase to arm circumference that's different. I hope you can recognize how I would take it to mean the other since the only measurement you listed was arms. That being said, that sort of statement is, frankly, completely untrue. Body sizes are different from person to person. 10 lbs is going to have more of an effect on a smaller framed person than the larger. I thought 10lbs just in the arms to be an over generalization as it was, but if it's across the whole body it's a completely useless measurement.

ArroganceInStep

I've been lifting for several years. I am not bulked up looking, but I have always gone to the gym regularly since college. So far, I have been able to maintain my currently lifting during my weight loss. I do supplement with whey protein before and after weight lifting (110 calories each before and after). I only lift twice a week as I am 57 years old. But I still can bench 305 pounds and leg press 500 pounds. I will worry about gaining muscle mass after I lose another 15-20 pounds. I did lose a little strength until I added the supplements right before and after my workouts.

This might be psychological only, but I will take it either way. I always been called a mental case by my friends anyway.

I take supplements too and have thought the same thing. If it works though, stick with it!

Ripken818836701

I used his arms because that's what he referenced. Why would I think he only gained in his arms and not everywhere else?

Question is do you think he's smaller? You didn't think so. You only said he's "about the same" or "not much bigger". Now you are stating that even if he stayed the same, he would have had decent gains.

That's what I've stated. By your own testimony of the pictures.

I have stated numerous times that I think he has gained some small amount of muscle mass. I also referenced the pictures with respect to the areas he was referring to (arms, shoulders, chest) and stated that I didn't see a massive difference. At what point did I say he would have had decent gains to stay the same? Also decent gains in what?

You STILL haven't answered my question.

For the record, I stated that for every 10lb's of LM. you gain you will gain 1 inch in your arms. That is not saying you wont also gain LM. feom that same 10lb.s in other parts of your body aswell. But like I also stated, in my opinion, different people have different genetics, different genetic potential and different body types, height,length of arms, legs etc. So in my opinion its a cookie cutter statement.

I did reference your original quote, if you're saying that 10lbs total muscle mass gain will result in a 1 inch increase to arm circumference that's different. I hope you can recognize how I would take it to mean the other since the only measurement you listed was arms. That being said, that sort of statement is, frankly, completely untrue. Body sizes are different from person to person. 10 lbs is going to have more of an effect on a smaller framed person than the larger. I thought 10lbs just in the arms to be an over generalization as it was, but if it's across the whole body it's a completely useless measurement.

Yes 10lbs total will increase the size of both arms by 1 inch. No, I completely understand, trying to keep up with the reply's was hard and I rushed a lot of repsonses and could have did a better job putting my thoughts etc. into words.
Also like I said I do not know how accurare that statement was, I read it on the net numerous times when guys asked questions about increasing the size of their arms etc. and never seen anyone dispute it.

Ripken818836701

I've been lifting for several years. I am not bulked up looking, but I have always gone to the gym regularly since college. So far, I have been able to maintain my currently lifting during my weight loss. I do supplement with whey protein before and after weight lifting (110 calories each before and after). I only lift twice a week as I am 57 years old. But I still can bench 305 pounds and leg press 500 pounds. I will worry about gaining muscle mass after I lose another 15-20 pounds. I did lose a little strength until I added the supplements right before and after my workouts.

This might be psychological only, but I will take it either way. I always been called a mental case by my friends anyway.

Wow!! Great job!! I hope I can bench 305 lbs and leg press 500 lbs at 57!!

Jeff92se

To me, to have lost that much weight AND to have added 1" to his arms, means what? Little gain? Ave gain? Big gains?

You've never really mentioned exactly what you considered "small" gains.

ArroganceInStep

To me, to have lost that much weight AND to have added 1" to his arms, means what? Little gain? Ave gain? Big gains?

You've never really mentioned exactly what you considered "small" gains.

You still haven't answered my question.

Jeff92se

To me, to have lost that much weight AND to have added 1" to his arms, means what? Little gain? Ave gain? Big gains?

You've never really mentioned exactly what you considered "small" gains.

You still haven't answered my question.

Yeah keep on that line of tact. Keeps you from actually answering the above.

Might want to repeat that question. I'll consider it.

ST99000722

I understand the concept behind eating at a surplus to build lean muscle mass, but I also can't dismiss the fact that it is possible to gain muscle and lose fat on a calorie deficit either. I have to ask... I have been eating at a deficit for 34 months and have lost 304 lbs. I have read that some think the OP had this muscle already and just uncovered it when he lost the weight. If that was true than your telling me that I had all this muscle already and that my 560 lbs, was just covering it up??? I find that very hard to believe.....

Im speechless.....fantastic work , you are amazing !!

hpsnickers1

I understand the concept behind eating at a surplus to build lean muscle mass, but I also can't dismiss the fact that it is possible to gain muscle and lose fat on a calorie deficit either. I have to ask... I have been eating at a deficit for 34 months and have lost 304 lbs. I have read that some think the OP had this muscle already and just uncovered it when he lost the weight. If that was true than your telling me that I had all this muscle already and that my 560 lbs, was just covering it up??? I find that very hard to believe.....

I don't care what you lost or gained. You look amazing. You are inspiration for the morbid obese folks. Kept the one pic. Look at that face!!! Look at that pride and confidence!! The gleam in your eyes say it all!!

ArroganceInStep

To me, to have lost that much weight AND to have added 1" to his arms, means what? Little gain? Ave gain? Big gains?

You've never really mentioned exactly what you considered "small" gains.

You still haven't answered my question.

Yeah keep on that line of tact. Keeps you from actually answering the above.

Might want to repeat that question. I'll consider it.

I've answered a number of questions that you posed., My question to you was exactly how much muscle do you think he gained. A vast majority of your argument has been to pose short questions to others without providing any answers of your own.

Jeff92se

To me, to have lost that much weight AND to have added 1" to his arms, means what? Little gain? Ave gain? Big gains?

You've never really mentioned exactly what you considered "small" gains.

You still haven't answered my question.

Yeah keep on that line of tact. Keeps you from actually answering the above.

Might want to repeat that question. I'll consider it.

I've answered a number of questions that you posed., My question to you was exactly how much muscle do you think he gained. A vast majority of your argument has been to pose short questions to others without providing any answers of your own.

You want an exact number? LMAO. I think he gained what HE SAID HE GAINED. For instance, his arms. What a nonsense question that is.

ArroganceInStep

You want an exact number? LMAO. I think he gained what HE SAID HE GAINED. For instance, his arms. What a nonsense question that is.

It's not a nonsense question. He didn't list an exact amount because he doesn't know it, which is fair. You laughed at 10lbs as a massive gain, so what do you think it would be more like. You say that substantial growth is needed to up your bench 150lbs, so in what gain would that make sense? I don't need an exact as in that's definitely what he gained, just what do you think would make sense.

Natihilator

I see the debate is still going strong. Just to let everyone know, I am starting to lift heavy and eating at a deficit, hoping to provide first-hand evidence soon that the topic of this thread is TRUE! :happy:

Jeff92se

10 lbs is NOT a big gain overall. But you thought he gained 10l s per arm. Cosidering the weight me lost and his comments on size after the weight loss, I think must have maintained a big amount of muscle as well gained in some areas. Look how much weight lost and how much muscle that accompanies that much loss. That tells me he has to gain a good amount just to stay the same size

Ripken818836701

I see the debate is still going strong. Just to let everyone know, I am starting to lift heavy and eating at a deficit, hoping to provide first-hand evidence soon that the topic of this thread is TRUE! :happy:

Glad to hear that your gonna lift heavy!! Just remember to eat ATLEAST one gram of protein for every lb. of body weight and try not to lose more than 1-2 lbs per week. Post your results in a few months! This thread will probably still be going strong!!:bigsmile:

Ripken818836701

I understand the concept behind eating at a surplus to build lean muscle mass, but I also can't dismiss the fact that it is possible to gain muscle and lose fat on a calorie deficit either. I have to ask... I have been eating at a deficit for 34 months and have lost 304 lbs. I have read that some think the OP had this muscle already and just uncovered it when he lost the weight. If that was true than your telling me that I had all this muscle already and that my 560 lbs, was just covering it up??? I find that very hard to believe.....

I don't care what you lost or gained. You look amazing. You are inspiration for the morbid obese folks. Kept the one pic. Look at that face!!! Look at that pride and confidence!! The gleam in your eyes say it all!!

Ed is an inspiration to anyone that is trying to transform their body!!

Natihilator

I see the debate is still going strong. Just to let everyone know, I am starting to lift heavy and eating at a deficit, hoping to provide first-hand evidence soon that the topic of this thread is TRUE! :happy:

Glad to hear that your gonna lift heavy!! Just remember to eat ATLEAST one gram of protein for every lb. of body weight and try not to lose more than 1-2 lbs per week. Post your results in a few months! This thread will probably still be going strong!!:bigsmile:

Thanks, I will! I try to get at least 90g of protein on rest days, and 150g on lifting days, and my weight scale progress is pretty slow going, so hopefully that means good things in terms of my body composition changing!

JNick77

10 lbs is NOT a big gain overall. But you thought he gained 10l s per arm. Cosidering the weight me lost and his comments on size after the weight loss, I think must have maintained a big amount of muscle as well gained in some areas. Look how much weight lost and how much muscle that accompanies that much loss. That tells me he has to gain a good amount just to stay the same size

You really don't think 10lbs of muscle is a big gain? After I'm done cutting down to 8%/9% BF I think I'll be sitting between 195 and 200 and I'd love to add back 10lbs of muscle and sit at 210lbs @ 8%. I would suspect that's easily an inch to most muscle groups.

Toddrific

I'm sort of confused as to the point of this. If during weight loss someone increases strength/power/endurance, does it matter if the actual size of the muscle increases?

Ripken818836701

I see the debate is still going strong. Just to let everyone know, I am starting to lift heavy and eating at a deficit, hoping to provide first-hand evidence soon that the topic of this thread is TRUE! :happy:

Glad to hear that your gonna lift heavy!! Just remember to eat ATLEAST one gram of protein for every lb. of body weight and try not to lose more than 1-2 lbs per week. Post your results in a few months! This thread will probably still be going strong!!:bigsmile:

Thanks, I will! I try to get at least 90g of protein on rest days, and 150g on lifting days, and my weight scale progress is pretty slow going, so hopefully that means good things in terms of my body composition changing!

Good Luck!! But you should eat as much protein on non lifting days as on lifting days. you tear your muscles down in the gym and they grow outside the gym.

jg627

I see the debate is still going strong. Just to let everyone know, I am starting to lift heavy and eating at a deficit, hoping to provide first-hand evidence soon that the topic of this thread is TRUE! :happy:

Glad to hear that your gonna lift heavy!! Just remember to eat ATLEAST one gram of protein for every lb. of body weight and try not to lose more than 1-2 lbs per week. Post your results in a few months! This thread will probably still be going strong!!:bigsmile:

Thanks, I will! I try to get at least 90g of protein on rest days, and 150g on lifting days, and my weight scale progress is pretty slow going, so hopefully that means good things in terms of my body composition changing!

Good Luck!! But you should eat as much protein on non lifting days as on lifting days. you tear your muscles down in the gym and they grow outside the gym.

You know, I got that same advice from Steve Turano. I'm begining to question the whole eating back exercise calories thing. I'm setting mine to just a flat rate and just find the right average number for modest weight loss from now on.

I suppose you could eat more carbs on gym day, if you wanted, but you still have to replenish energy during recovery too.

JNick77

I see the debate is still going strong. Just to let everyone know, I am starting to lift heavy and eating at a deficit, hoping to provide first-hand evidence soon that the topic of this thread is TRUE! :happy:

Glad to hear that your gonna lift heavy!! Just remember to eat ATLEAST one gram of protein for every lb. of body weight and try not to lose more than 1-2 lbs per week. Post your results in a few months! This thread will probably still be going strong!!:bigsmile:

Thanks, I will! I try to get at least 90g of protein on rest days, and 150g on lifting days, and my weight scale progress is pretty slow going, so hopefully that means good things in terms of my body composition changing!

Good Luck!! But you should eat as much protein on non lifting days as on lifting days. you tear your muscles down in the gym and they grow outside the gym.

You know, I got that same advice from Steve Turano. I'm begining to question the whole eating back exercise calories thing. I'm setting mine to just a flat rate and just find the right average number for modest weight loss from now on.

I suppose you could eat more carbs on gym day, if you wanted, but you still have to replenish energy during recovery too.

The eating back calorie thing just seems ridiculous to me and I've never heard a real expert in the field recommend doing it. I work with a very well educated and experienced nutritionist (John Meadows) that is also a bodybuilder, I've chatted with various PhD's in the field like Lonnie Lowery, John Berardi, and Chris Shugart (not a PhD) and specifically asked them about eating back exercise calories and they all disagreed and John does not have me eating back exercise calories. Furthermore Chris said that those HRM's aren't even all that accurate anyway that your body may fluctuate during the exercise and the HRM's don't account for the increased calorie "burn" that comes for a couple hours after exercise. It's silly, set a safe calorie deficit and adjust as needed to continue losing weight.

Jersey_Devil

my understanding is that newbies to to weight lifting can gain muscle while on a calorie deficit/losing weight..but eventually the body adjusts and you have to start feeding those muscles more and more... so for newbies- yes, its possible..but for more experienced weight trainers, nope.

jg627

I see the debate is still going strong. Just to let everyone know, I am starting to lift heavy and eating at a deficit, hoping to provide first-hand evidence soon that the topic of this thread is TRUE! :happy:

Glad to hear that your gonna lift heavy!! Just remember to eat ATLEAST one gram of protein for every lb. of body weight and try not to lose more than 1-2 lbs per week. Post your results in a few months! This thread will probably still be going strong!!:bigsmile:

Thanks, I will! I try to get at least 90g of protein on rest days, and 150g on lifting days, and my weight scale progress is pretty slow going, so hopefully that means good things in terms of my body composition changing!

Good Luck!! But you should eat as much protein on non lifting days as on lifting days. you tear your muscles down in the gym and they grow outside the gym.

You know, I got that same advice from Steve Turano. I'm begining to question the whole eating back exercise calories thing. I'm setting mine to just a flat rate and just find the right average number for modest weight loss from now on.

I suppose you could eat more carbs on gym day, if you wanted, but you still have to replenish energy during recovery too.

The eating back calorie thing just seems ridiculous to me and I've never heard a real expert in the field recommend doing it. I work with a very well educated and experienced nutritionist (John Meadows) that is also a bodybuilder, I've chatted with various PhD's in the field like Lonnie Lowery, John Berardi, and Chris Shugart (not a PhD) and specifically asked them about eating back exercise calories and they all disagreed and John does not have me eating back exercise calories. Furthermore Chris said that those HRM's aren't even all that accurate anyway that your body may fluctuate during the exercise and the HRM's don't account for the increased calorie "burn" that comes for a couple hours after exercise. It's silly, set a safe calorie deficit and adjust as needed to continue losing weight.

Yeah, Steve said the same thing about HRM's and especially (even more so) on the exercise bikes that tell you calories burned. People are more likely to buy the one that burns more calories.

Ripken818836701

I see the debate is still going strong. Just to let everyone know, I am starting to lift heavy and eating at a deficit, hoping to provide first-hand evidence soon that the topic of this thread is TRUE! :happy:

Glad to hear that your gonna lift heavy!! Just remember to eat ATLEAST one gram of protein for every lb. of body weight and try not to lose more than 1-2 lbs per week. Post your results in a few months! This thread will probably still be going strong!!:bigsmile:

Thanks, I will! I try to get at least 90g of protein on rest days, and 150g on lifting days, and my weight scale progress is pretty slow going, so hopefully that means good things in terms of my body composition changing!

Good Luck!! But you should eat as much protein on non lifting days as on lifting days. you tear your muscles down in the gym and they grow outside the gym.

You know, I got that same advice from Steve Turano. I'm begining to question the whole eating back exercise calories thing. I'm setting mine to just a flat rate and just find the right average number for modest weight loss from now on.

I suppose you could eat more carbs on gym day, if you wanted, but you still have to replenish energy during recovery too.

The eating back calorie thing just seems ridiculous to me and I've never heard a real expert in the field recommend doing it. I work with a very well educated and experienced nutritionist (John Meadows) that is also a bodybuilder, I've chatted with various PhD's in the field like Lonnie Lowery, John Berardi, and Chris Shugart (not a PhD) and specifically asked them about eating back exercise calories and they all disagreed and John does not have me eating back exercise calories. Furthermore Chris said that those HRM's aren't even all that accurate anyway that your body may fluctuate during the exercise and the HRM's don't account for the increased calorie "burn" that comes for a couple hours after exercise. It's silly, set a safe calorie deficit and adjust as needed to continue losing weight.

I agree 100% I dont believe in eating back calories. I eat above maint. each and every day regardless of if and what exercise I am doing for a particular day. My goal was to be enough under maint for the week (not for each day) to lose 1-2 lbs.

JNick77

I see the debate is still going strong. Just to let everyone know, I am starting to lift heavy and eating at a deficit, hoping to provide first-hand evidence soon that the topic of this thread is TRUE! :happy:

Glad to hear that your gonna lift heavy!! Just remember to eat ATLEAST one gram of protein for every lb. of body weight and try not to lose more than 1-2 lbs per week. Post your results in a few months! This thread will probably still be going strong!!:bigsmile:

Thanks, I will! I try to get at least 90g of protein on rest days, and 150g on lifting days, and my weight scale progress is pretty slow going, so hopefully that means good things in terms of my body composition changing!

Good Luck!! But you should eat as much protein on non lifting days as on lifting days. you tear your muscles down in the gym and they grow outside the gym.

You know, I got that same advice from Steve Turano. I'm begining to question the whole eating back exercise calories thing. I'm setting mine to just a flat rate and just find the right average number for modest weight loss from now on.

I suppose you could eat more carbs on gym day, if you wanted, but you still have to replenish energy during recovery too.

The eating back calorie thing just seems ridiculous to me and I've never heard a real expert in the field recommend doing it. I work with a very well educated and experienced nutritionist (John Meadows) that is also a bodybuilder, I've chatted with various PhD's in the field like Lonnie Lowery, John Berardi, and Chris Shugart (not a PhD) and specifically asked them about eating back exercise calories and they all disagreed and John does not have me eating back exercise calories. Furthermore Chris said that those HRM's aren't even all that accurate anyway that your body may fluctuate during the exercise and the HRM's don't account for the increased calorie "burn" that comes for a couple hours after exercise. It's silly, set a safe calorie deficit and adjust as needed to continue losing weight.

Yeah, Steve said the same thing about HRM's and especially (even more so) on the exercise bikes that tell you calories burned. People are more likely to buy the one that burns more calories.

Yeah, Dr. Lowery actually laughed at me when I asked that question. I said no it's a serious question because people are actually recommending you do this. I need to look, I may have that part of his live chat.

Ripken818836701

my understanding is that newbies to to weight lifting can gain muscle while on a calorie deficit/losing weight..but eventually the body adjusts and you have to start feeding those muscles more and more... so for newbies- yes, its possible..but for more experienced weight trainers, nope.

How long are you considered a newbie? I just started doing a bulk but I continued to gain for an entire 13 months prior to that.

JNick77

Here is the end of the chat:


"Hi Jay,
After being in Vegas without internet for a few days (bashing anti-protein lunatics), I just saw your question in Chris' Livespill.

This is what I always say to students: although important, calorie balance is the BEGINNING not the END of body comp change. 99% of the time one must keep some eye on how many kcal are consumed vs. burned. But counting calories too anally doesn't work well and is unhealthy for the psyche.

I actually start cutting phases by simply eliminating junk foods and most carbs from my dinners. Meanwhile I start 4-6 bouts of bike sprints or eliptical "sprints" after workouts. That handles the energy balance: less in, more out. I surely would NOT eat an extra 100-200 kcal to make up for the bike sprints!

Hope that helps; the threaded discussion closed on me, so I'm PM-ing.

Best,
Lonnie"

Jersey_Devil

good question. this is just what I've heard a lot of lifters say at the gym. I'm a newbie.