Students forced to give passwords...
Replies
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If they were just looking at a public wall that is one thing, demanding passwords so they could go into password protected/friends only data then they have gone too far. No one has a "right" to our passwords, if the police or other officials need your information they can go to a judge and show cause, that is called due process and is our right. This poor child was in trouble for an opinion, not for disruptive behavior in school.
Would you want an employer looking at your data here or your medical records (which many medical institutions now have online for coordinated record sharing)?0 -
If they were just looking at a public wall that is one thing, demanding passwords so they could go into password protected/friends only data then they have gone too far. No one has a "right" to our passwords, if the police or other officials need your information they can go to a judge and show cause, that is called due process and is our right. This poor child was in trouble for an opinion, not for disruptive behavior in school.
Would you want an employer looking at your data here or your medical records (which many medical institutions now have online for coordinated record sharing)?
Let's face it -- government HAS the ability to snoop at anything and everything we do, because of our SSNs. Is it right? Nope, and I hope they don't abuse this power. But they have the ability to go where others cannot tread.0 -
this is stupid. they shouldn't even be allowed to ask kids to log into their accounts..the kids are minors. If they want to look, ask the parents for permission.0
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I do agree that the government can do this to us, which I believe is wrong.
But point of the original story and ACLU action is about school officials forcing students to give up their passwords as standard procedure so they can look when ever they feel like it. And potential employers are doing the same type of thing, that is why I thought adding the privacy action was appropriate here.
Do you think these other people should be able to do this? I, personally, do not!0 -
I don't know if some of these comments I find ignorant, terrifying, horrific, or just plain shocking.
I cannot believe that some people truly think it is ok to violate civil rights under the LIE that you might, possibly, maybe save a life. Just like I don't want my testicles cupped by some random TSA agent under the lie that I might me safer.
The whole "if you have nothing to hide" argument is pathetic. If you believe that it is ok have FB, cell phone, et cetra searched by employers / schools, ask yourself if you would let them come into your home and search through your drawers. There is absolutely no difference, a violation of your civil rights is a violation of your civil rights.
The argument is in no way about the appropriateness of minors having FB accounts, it is about letting some random stranger look through your child's private life. It's my job as the parent to the the nosy SOB looking into their private life, not someone I don't know and I have no way of knowing what their intentions are. No I am not calling all teachers perverts, but its a big world full of sickos and I want to personally know who is delving into my child's life.
Sometimes I start to wonder if this type of think continues if one day my child will come home telling me that it is his responsibility to report me to "mother government" if he sees me doing anything not approved of by current governmental guidelines. I'm sure some people think this sounds paranoid this is where we are headed when we start letting the government raise and monitor our children, insuring that they have their moral and ethical beliefs not the parents.
The last thing I'll say is that it is really easy to give up someones civil rights when they're not your rights being given up.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: many students hide many things from their parents. When teachers overhear things that are concerning, they MUST act on it, or risk losing their jobs for lack of attention to the matter. We are mandatory reporters of child abuse, sexual abuse, bullying, mental health concerns, etc.
Lemme see: "no looking at texts" = invasion of privacy
"No looking at texts or facebook, and student comes to school and shoots up students" = LAWSUIT from parents who said "Why didn't you see this coming, Mr Principal? Why weren't they warned?"
Well,we've suspected Johnny wasn't quite "right" in the head, but ya know, parents are upset about the whole "snooping thing, what with privacy concerns and all, so we decided not to risk a lawsuit by not interfering"
Oh, well guess what, Mr Principal? We are suing for not getting involved ENOUGH.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't, eh?
There is a big difference between taking steps once you become aware of a problem and actively dissecting peoples lives to find problems. As far as lawsuits nothing will stop those. If a plane crashes they sue everybody, even the people who make the seat cushions. Somebody is always looking for a payday. Its not right to throw away the constitution using the lie of better protection. If we continually give up one right after another, one day you will wake up to realize that you no longer live in a free country but one where you have no rights and are guilty until proven guilty.0 -
As for the bullying issue -- I say if a kid is getting bullied and nobody is helping, that kid has EVERY right to defend himself/herself if they feel they are being threatened. My daughter takes mixed martial arts and, in the event she is attacked and ends up seriously harming the person who did it, then THEY DESERVED it, and I will totally support her 100%.
I have taken martial arts for years and totally agree that someone has the right to defend them self. However there is this mindset that if you have training somehow you are responsible for going way out of your way not to hurt the attacker.
For example, this guy that was upset at my brother saw me at a stoplight and attacked me through the window. We ended up fighting (no one really hurt) and when we went to court (yes I pressed charges) the prosecutor was very concerned if I take martial arts and exactly what techniques I used on him. I couldn't believe what I was hearing, he attacks me through the car window and they're all over me about martial arts training. I would understand if he was in the hospital but that wasn't the case.0 -
I don't know if some of these comments I find ignorant, terrifying, horrific, or just plain shocking.
I cannot believe that some people truly think it is ok to violate civil rights under the LIE that you might, possibly, maybe save a life. Just like I don't want my testicles cupped by some random TSA agent under the lie that I might me safer.
The whole "if you have nothing to hide" argument is pathetic. If you believe that it is ok have FB, cell phone, et cetra searched by employers / schools, ask yourself if you would let them come into your home and search through your drawers. There is absolutely no difference, a violation of your civil rights is a violation of your civil rights.
The argument is in no way about the appropriateness of minors having FB accounts, it is about letting some random stranger look through your child's private life. It's my job as the parent to the the nosy SOB looking into their private life, not someone I don't know and I have no way of knowing what their intentions are. No I am not calling all teachers perverts, but its a big world full of sickos and I want to personally know who is delving into my child's life.
Sometimes I start to wonder if this type of think continues if one day my child will come home telling me that it is his responsibility to report me to "mother government" if he sees me doing anything not approved of by current governmental guidelines. I'm sure some people think this sounds paranoid this is where we are headed when we start letting the government raise and monitor our children, insuring that they have their moral and ethical beliefs not the parents.
The last thing I'll say is that it is really easy to give up someones civil rights when they're not your rights being given up.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: many students hide many things from their parents. When teachers overhear things that are concerning, they MUST act on it, or risk losing their jobs for lack of attention to the matter. We are mandatory reporters of child abuse, sexual abuse, bullying, mental health concerns, etc.
Lemme see: "no looking at texts" = invasion of privacy
"No looking at texts or facebook, and student comes to school and shoots up students" = LAWSUIT from parents who said "Why didn't you see this coming, Mr Principal? Why weren't they warned?"
Well,we've suspected Johnny wasn't quite "right" in the head, but ya know, parents are upset about the whole "snooping thing, what with privacy concerns and all, so we decided not to risk a lawsuit by not interfering"
Oh, well guess what, Mr Principal? We are suing for not getting involved ENOUGH.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't, eh?
There is a big difference between taking steps once you become aware of a problem and actively dissecting peoples lives to find problems. As far as lawsuits nothing will stop those. If a plane crashes they sue everybody, even the people who make the seat cushions. Somebody is always looking for a payday. Its not right to throw away the constitution using the lie of better protection. If we continually give up one right after another, one day you will wake up to realize that you no longer live in a free country but one where you have no rights and are guilty until proven guilty.
I agree -- which is why I am stating specific situations and reasons for why and when educators SHOULD get involved. I am one of those educators who has intervened on several occasions, and I am not going to apologize for being concerned enough to pursue action, even if it means the kid and the parents get a little pissed off because I have "invaded their privacy." Tough *kitten*.0 -
a school here has just recently decided any students with a facebook account will be expelled as it is a primary school and none of the students are 13 yet and would therefore be in violation of facebooks terms of use. Also my workplace includes in our code of conduct stuff about facebook we dont have to share our passwords but they manage to see what ever they want i dont know if its cuz people are too dumb to set privacy settings or if they have IT hacking it but people get fired all the time for bullying workmates or saying **** about the company on facebook.
I don't really see how it is any of the schools business. Terms of use are in no way laws but once again schools think they are the ones who should make all decisions for the students, not the parents.
I really hate this idea that employers think they should have total access to their employees lives. It more like employers are starting to no longer look at people as employees but rather indentured servants / slaves. They should be concerned with your actions during work hours not at home. Not to mention if a employee is bad mouthing the company they don't need to look at FB to find out, they always end up doing it at work too and it will get back to the employer.
the school is trying to make its students do the right thing its not a law but its a rule that they are breaking and if the grow up thinking thats ok then maybe it will lead to breaking laws or maybe just breaking the schools rules i dont know how i feel about that but am leaning towards leave it to the parents to parent.
about the workplaces looking into employees well thats just sensible and people need to realise that while they maybe safe at home whilst posting things on facebook the internet is not private. just because you treat it like your diary doesnt mean anyone shouldnt be allowed to look at it. Your sharing your thoughts an photos with the world if you dont want it seen dont put it on there. Also anything u delete is not gone forever never to be seen again anyone with a little skill can find it and bring it back to bite you. which also brings us back to keeping kids safe on there and if i had a kid they wouldnt be on facebook till they were at least 15
i dont believe however anyone should have to hand over a password. you dont need a password to view there page and passwords are there for a reason id be afraid of what they might do while they are signed on under me also most people use the same password on most things so it would possible give them access to a whole range of things.0 -
a school here has just recently decided any students with a facebook account will be expelled as it is a primary school and none of the students are 13 yet and would therefore be in violation of facebooks terms of use. Also my workplace includes in our code of conduct stuff about facebook we dont have to share our passwords but they manage to see what ever they want i dont know if its cuz people are too dumb to set privacy settings or if they have IT hacking it but people get fired all the time for bullying workmates or saying **** about the company on facebook.
I don't really see how it is any of the schools business. Terms of use are in no way laws but once again schools think they are the ones who should make all decisions for the students, not the parents.
I really hate this idea that employers think they should have total access to their employees lives. It more like employers are starting to no longer look at people as employees but rather indentured servants / slaves. They should be concerned with your actions during work hours not at home. Not to mention if a employee is bad mouthing the company they don't need to look at FB to find out, they always end up doing it at work too and it will get back to the employer.
the school is trying to make its students do the right thing its not a law but its a rule that they are breaking and if the grow up thinking thats ok then maybe it will lead to breaking laws or maybe just breaking the schools rules i dont know how i feel about that but am leaning towards leave it to the parents to parent.
about the workplaces looking into employees well thats just sensible and people need to realise that while they maybe safe at home whilst posting things on facebook the internet is not private. just because you treat it like your diary doesnt mean anyone shouldnt be allowed to look at it. Your sharing your thoughts an photos with the world if you dont want it seen dont put it on there. Also anything u delete is not gone forever never to be seen again anyone with a little skill can find it and bring it back to bite you. which also brings us back to keeping kids safe on there and if i had a kid they wouldnt be on facebook till they were at least 15
i dont believe however anyone should have to hand over a password. you dont need a password to view there page and passwords are there for a reason id be afraid of what they might do while they are signed on under me also most people use the same password on most things so it would possible give them access to a whole range of things.
The one thing you are missing about the school punishing the kids for FB accounts is the fact that this is something that is done on their own time not the schools and most of the time with the parents permission. I know a lot of parents that allow their children to have FB accounts but only if they add them as friends so they can monitor what they are doing. It is not the schools job to punish kids for what they do at home. Can you image if a kid got in trouble for stealing money from their mom's purse and then the school expelled them since stealing is against school policy. I look at it as the school saying "The hell with the parents, what we say matters more!".
I will never agree that an employer needs to know what you do with your free time, as long as you are not breaking the law. Look at where this could lead. What if your employer has a difference religion and is offended by yours, or doesn't like how you dress when you go out on the weekends. The examples are endless not to mention if they are just some sicko that is coping all your pictures because they think they love you. I do not believe in a system that states you are only innocent until we dig deep enough to find something or that if you have nothing to hide then you will open your entire life to me. As long as I don't break the law what I do in my personal life is my damn business no theirs. I don't remember seeing "indentured servant" as a job description. The ONLY reason companies are starting to push this is because they feel they can get away with it and they have no respect for their employees. If they don't trust you then they shouldn't hire you. Think about it, what are they really looking for? Do they think you are going to post how you just stole from them or how you are plotting to come in and shoot everybody? I don't think so, this is about control and nothing more. They are wanting to find something they can hold over your head. I use to work for someone that always lent his employees money. Why? Not to be nice but to make sure he could always use it against them and he always did. Companies try to present this with the most honorable intentions about there is absolutely no honor and no justification for this kind of invasion.
As far as posting on FB there is a big difference between using a site with privacy setting and a site with no settings. Privacy setting are they so I can control who sees what, in no way is it giving permission for everyone to view. It's not about using FB as a diary or just talking to friends. It's my account and no one should have the right to demand to see it.0 -
Very well said TJames0
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Thank you to the OP for posting this
Welcome! I appreciate the discussion as well. Lots of good viewpoints made.0 -
The only thing my employer has said about all social networking, is that as an employee, you are not allowed to slander the company online, nor can you discuss non-factual issues (like make up things that aren't true), nor can you discuss private internal company things (pricing, company secrets, competitive advantge, new product launches, leaking upcoming products, etc). If you do that, you will be subject to potentially being let go. Other than that though, we're free to do as we please.
You can discuss the company products and competitors and all that, as long as it is factual. A lot of people here have industry blogs and that kind of thing. So, I think the company monitors that activity. If an employee is bashing the company, they'll inquire immediately. It's actually very interesting how our company is out there spying on the world using the web. They've showed some examples. If you participate in social networking, it's kind of scary. i couldn't believe what I saw that they are doing to collect info from people. Scary stuff.0 -
They can have my kids password for their Facebook account. It wouldn't bother me, or my kids, at all. They have nothing to hide.0
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I work at a Catholic school and we all have morality clauses. I would gladly open up my FB and MFP (the only 2 sites I use) and show them all my interactions, and I'd do this without hesitation.The only thing my employer has said about all social networking, is that as an employee, you are not allowed to slander the company online, nor can you discuss non-factual issues (like make up things that aren't true), nor can you discuss private internal company things (pricing, company secrets, competitive advantge, new product launches, leaking upcoming products, etc). If you do that, you will be subject to potentially being let go. Other than that though, we're free to do as we please.0 -
I work at a Catholic school and we all have morality clauses. I would gladly open up my FB and MFP (the only 2 sites I use) and show them all my interactions, and I'd do this without hesitation.
As would I and I don't work at a private institution.0 -
They can have my kids password for their Facebook account. It wouldn't bother me, or my kids, at all. They have nothing to hide.
I guess if you are OK with it, then that's OK. I'm not. So, I need to also have the right to say no. It's not about having anything to hide, it's about my passionate belief that it's none of their business.0 -
They can have my kids password for their Facebook account. It wouldn't bother me, or my kids, at all. They have nothing to hide.
I guess if you are OK with it, then that's OK. I'm not. So, I need to also have the right to say no. It's not about having anything to hide, it's about my passionate belief that it's none of their business.
Well okay then...that's your choice.0 -
Again, just depends on where you work. Where I work, my personal life IS their business. Private schools can be the same way. What you do on your "personal time" is a reflection of the school, so regardless if you're on FB while on school grounds, your actions can be dealt with at the school level.It's not about having anything to hide, it's about my passionate belief that it's none of their business.0 -
Im so happy that Im not American.
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I dont have anything to hide either, but its the principle. What I do on FB and MFP is none of an employers business, period.0
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Again, it depends on where you work.I dont have anything to hide either, but its the principle. What I do on FB and MFP is none of an employers business, period.0 -
I work at a Catholic school and we all have morality clauses. I would gladly open up my FB and MFP (the only 2 sites I use) and show them all my interactions, and I'd do this without hesitation.
As would I and I don't work at a private institution.
I work at a Catholic school too and I deleted my FB account a couple months ago. Not because of work, but I got bored with it, and realized it's a big, fat waste of time. But, that's just me.0 -
Not that I agree with the school admins practice, but... ummm... What's a 13 year-old girl doing with a facebook page anyway? My daughter wasn't allowed to get one until she was 16, and then I monitored it (and her friends) regularly.
Because her mother allowed it. I'm sure the mother monitors the page as well being a good parent. I'm almost 30 & my mother monitors my Facebook.. more like stalks it!. The age minimum on Facebook is 13, so your point is kind of invalid.
Regardless of anything, her rights were infringed upon and they school district should be sued. Then the admin in the article said "They volunteer the information. We just ask is there something you want to show us. Bull!! That is entrapment!0 -
a school here has just recently decided any students with a facebook account will be expelled as it is a primary school and none of the students are 13 yet and would therefore be in violation of facebooks terms of use. Also my workplace includes in our code of conduct stuff about facebook we dont have to share our passwords but they manage to see what ever they want i dont know if its cuz people are too dumb to set privacy settings or if they have IT hacking it but people get fired all the time for bullying workmates or saying **** about the company on facebook.
I don't really see how it is any of the schools business. Terms of use are in no way laws but once again schools think they are the ones who should make all decisions for the students, not the parents.
I really hate this idea that employers think they should have total access to their employees lives. It more like employers are starting to no longer look at people as employees but rather indentured servants / slaves. They should be concerned with your actions during work hours not at home. Not to mention if a employee is bad mouthing the company they don't need to look at FB to find out, they always end up doing it at work too and it will get back to the employer.
the school is trying to make its students do the right thing its not a law but its a rule that they are breaking and if the grow up thinking thats ok then maybe it will lead to breaking laws or maybe just breaking the schools rules i dont know how i feel about that but am leaning towards leave it to the parents to parent.
about the workplaces looking into employees well thats just sensible and people need to realise that while they maybe safe at home whilst posting things on facebook the internet is not private. just because you treat it like your diary doesnt mean anyone shouldnt be allowed to look at it. Your sharing your thoughts an photos with the world if you dont want it seen dont put it on there. Also anything u delete is not gone forever never to be seen again anyone with a little skill can find it and bring it back to bite you. which also brings us back to keeping kids safe on there and if i had a kid they wouldnt be on facebook till they were at least 15
i dont believe however anyone should have to hand over a password. you dont need a password to view there page and passwords are there for a reason id be afraid of what they might do while they are signed on under me also most people use the same password on most things so it would possible give them access to a whole range of things.
The one thing you are missing about the school punishing the kids for FB accounts is the fact that this is something that is done on their own time not the schools and most of the time with the parents permission. I know a lot of parents that allow their children to have FB accounts but only if they add them as friends so they can monitor what they are doing. It is not the schools job to punish kids for what they do at home. Can you image if a kid got in trouble for stealing money from their mom's purse and then the school expelled them since stealing is against school policy. I look at it as the school saying "The hell with the parents, what we say matters more!".
I will never agree that an employer needs to know what you do with your free time, as long as you are not breaking the law. Look at where this could lead. What if your employer has a difference religion and is offended by yours, or doesn't like how you dress when you go out on the weekends. The examples are endless not to mention if they are just some sicko that is coping all your pictures because they think they love you. I do not believe in a system that states you are only innocent until we dig deep enough to find something or that if you have nothing to hide then you will open your entire life to me. As long as I don't break the law what I do in my personal life is my damn business no theirs. I don't remember seeing "indentured servant" as a job description. The ONLY reason companies are starting to push this is because they feel they can get away with it and they have no respect for their employees. If they don't trust you then they shouldn't hire you. Think about it, what are they really looking for? Do they think you are going to post how you just stole from them or how you are plotting to come in and shoot everybody? I don't think so, this is about control and nothing more. They are wanting to find something they can hold over your head. I use to work for someone that always lent his employees money. Why? Not to be nice but to make sure he could always use it against them and he always did. Companies try to present this with the most honorable intentions about there is absolutely no honor and no justification for this kind of invasion.
As far as posting on FB there is a big difference between using a site with privacy setting and a site with no settings. Privacy setting are they so I can control who sees what, in no way is it giving permission for everyone to view. It's not about using FB as a diary or just talking to friends. It's my account and no one should have the right to demand to see it.
Insurance companies and some businesses are demanding that employees desiring to work there DO NOT SMOKE at all, ever, anywhere, including their homes. As abhorred as I am by smoking, and feel it is a filthy, disgusting habit, I don't believe they should have the right to deny employment over smoking at home. I DO, however, believe it should be illegal to smoke around children, especially in cars and tight spaces. Our new casino in the works here will ONLY hire non-smokers, and if the employee tests positive for nicotine, they will be fired immediately, regardless of where that smoker has been smoking.
THAT is wrong.0 -
No, it doesn't. If anything about fb matters to an employer its how potential clients may view you if they google your name. So the only check should be, are you using appropriate privacy settings?
Again, it depends on where you work.I dont have anything to hide either, but its the principle. What I do on FB and MFP is none of an employers business, period.
I keep hoping that as more and more of us put it all out there that people will be less judgemental. We friended our son's daycare teacher on fb. She's 21 and did a great job, so when my wife pointed out pictures she was tagged in with a beer bong, I just reminded my wife that I did that when I was 21. Just because we aren't used to seeing people in responsible positions doing the irresponsible things they do in their personal time doesn't make it wrong. Unfortunately, it seems we are getting more judgemental.0 -
Students threatening other students.
Students posting on FB that they plan on shooting up a school.
Students bullying.
Students creating an unwelcome environment at school
Student sexually assaulting another child
These things, for example, ARE the schools business. However, if you feel that your "rights" are infringed upon by what they are asking, either don't comply or sue. I'm not exactly sure what you'll get in return, but go right ahead. It's the American way.0 -
Employees of a bank post about robbing people.Students threatening other students.
Students posting on FB that they plan on shooting up a school.
Students bullying.
Students creating an unwelcome environment at school
Student sexually assaulting another child
These things, for example, ARE the schools business. However, if you feel that your "rights" are infringed upon by what they are asking, either don't comply or sue. I'm not exactly sure what you'll get in return, but go right ahead. It's the American way.
Employees in law enforcement post about doing drugs.
Employees of a church post about strip clubs.
Employees at hospitals posting about things patients do/say/have.........
Sorry, but I think it DOES matter where you work and what you're posting.0 -
It's against FB terms of service to give out your password to anyone.
It's not only an invasion of your privacy but of your friends and family. People set high privacy measures on their FB (like myself, I keep everything hidden to anyone I do not know) I would be hurt and disgusted if someone I didn't know had access to my personal information through someone's account that I trusted.
I don't have kids but I know I would want them to NEVER give out any personal information or passwords. It's not their decision to risk the privacy of others.0 -
No, it doesn't. If anything about fb matters to an employer its how potential clients may view you if they google your name. So the only check should be, are you using appropriate privacy settings?
Again, it depends on where you work.I dont have anything to hide either, but its the principle. What I do on FB and MFP is none of an employers business, period.
I keep hoping that as more and more of us put it all out there that people will be less judgemental. We friended our son's daycare teacher on fb. She's 21 and did a great job, so when my wife pointed out pictures she was tagged in with a beer bong, I just reminded my wife that I did that when I was 21. Just because we aren't used to seeing people in responsible positions doing the irresponsible things they do in their personal time doesn't make it wrong. Unfortunately, it seems we are getting more judgemental.
My kids' middle school principal got arrested for drunk driving. What did he get as a punishment for blowing twice the legal limit, driving down the wrong way on a one way street, and being too drunk to differentiate between a drivers' license and a Blockbuster membership card? 10 days paid leave (a vacation). What did he assign my son for giggling during a lock down drill? Saturday school.
If this had been my kids' teacher you're talking about, I would have removed my children from her care immediately. I am sorry, but teachers ARE required to maintain a sense of decorum and appropriate behavior. If they are stupid enough to put a picture like that on FB for others to see (especially parents of the students she teaches), she DESERVES to lose her job. And, sorry, but you should be more horrified by this behavior than "Oh, well, gee, I was 21 once myself."
I think part of the problem with society today is the "anything goes" mentality of "hey, it's my OWN business". It becomes my business when someone who is paid to be a role model to my children is participating in illegal activities. Period.0
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