As if There Weren't Enough Reasons to go Vegan

foxfirekenzie

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You can get loads of really good vegan bacon and ham. I don't like it because it smells so much like the real thing during cooking!
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This I have never understood, being vegan but eating foods that mimic meat! Coo coo crazy!

RhonndaJ

I may not physically require meat to live,

So you agree with me.Ok.

Pretty much.

I believe we're natural omnivores. Evolved that way as the best means for us to survive.

However in this day an age we've taken ourselves out out of the food chain and have enough protein sources without actually killing other animals for their meat. I also happen to believe that meat is the best source of protein for us to ingest.

This doesn't mean that I think vegans are wrong for their choices.

I would just like the militant ones to knock off telling me I'm a cruel and bad person because I don't care to do what they do.

Shock_Wave

Geez this is like my step mom telling me humans have the digestive tract similar to that of a cow, and that we are to graze on grass like cows because we do not have canine teeth like wild animals (which uh yeah we do!)

And that our bodies really only need 30g of protein because protein depletes the calcium in the body. Funny how she could not answer if I eat mostly protein, why are my calcium levels right on target?

Things that make you go hmmmmmm

How about we just take it with a grain of salt (preferably added with some tequila and lime) and move on to the next theory.

lol at your step mom as I believe cows have stomachs with compartments almost like having 2.

1The Rumen – this is the largest part and holds upto 50 gallons of partially digested food. This is where the ‘cud’ comes from. Good bacteria in the Rumen helps soften and digest the cows food and provides protein for the cow.

2. The Recticulum his part of the stomach is like a humans stomach and is connected to the intestines. Here, the food is finally digested by the cows stomach juices and essential nutrients that the cow needs are passed through the bloodstream..

In fact they them cows can mow down a whole over grown field of weeds and such have your step mom join them and have her find out for herself.. lol :laugh:

Teliooo

You know very well that fruit and vegetables are inanimate. It's a rights issue just like racism or homophobia. In the future people will look back on meat eating in the same way we now view the slave trade.

You're joking right? African American friends and GLBT community members: tell me, do you think people eating meat is comparable to the injustices you've suffered?

Yep. That is pretty offensive. And clueless.

I ashamed for you. To even compare it is sad, really sad, and clueless.

_VoV

Wouldn't the human race have become extinct long ago if this bogus research had any legs? Seriously people. Can we use our common sense to question junk science every now and again?

If you are going to critique carefully conducted scientific studies, please point to specific issues with the research, not just that you don't happen to agree with the results.

Success in evolutionary terms is making it to a point of sexual maturity, which was probably the late teens in prehistoric terms. I know I hope for greater longevity than that, and at least a cancer-free existence, and I don't think I'm unusual in that hope.

Bentley2718

Chemical found in grilled meat that is linked to weight gain, diabetes, etc.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/26/grilled-meat-weight-gain-diabetes_n_1828486.html?utm_hp_ref=healthy-living





In a new study in mice, researchers have found a link between a compound produced when food is cooked with dry heat -- like over a grill -- and weight gain, insulin resistance and diabetes.

Interestingly, I don't know that this is a good argument for veganism, the very same compounds may well be produced when I grill tofu or eggplant.

Bentley2718

You know very well that fruit and vegetables are inanimate. It's a rights issue just like racism or homophobia. In the future people will look back on meat eating in the same way we now view the slave trade.

You're joking right? African American friends and GLBT community members: tell me, do you think people eating meat is comparable to the injustices you've suffered?

Yep. That is pretty offensive. And clueless.

I ashamed for you. To even compare it is sad, really sad, and clueless.

People once widely believed that people with darker skin tone (i.e. Africans) were less than human, and could be treated in inhumane ways, at some level, this is not much different than thinking that animals can be treated in inhumane ways.

Glasgow_Vegan

With all due respect that last paragraph of yours is the most stupid thing I've read in a long while.

And with all due respect, everything you've written is really, really sanctimonious. Yet no one has called you stupid. Lay off.

I called his statement stupid. I didn't say he was a stupid person.

Carol_L

Wouldn't the human race have become extinct long ago if this bogus research had any legs? Seriously people. Can we use our common sense to question junk science every now and again?

If you are going to critique carefully conducted scientific studies, please point to specific issues with the research, not just that you don't happen to agree with the results.

Okay....
1) Mice are not humans. Because they do not share our physiology, they are not the best model for how the human body metabolizes things.
2) Unfortunately the complete article is behind a pay wall, so I can't get into specifics on the methodology, study length, etc, but the conclusion stated is that there MAY be a relationship. Correlation is not causation.

Is that a good start?

Glasgow_Vegan

Vegan or not, it's a personal choice that shouldn't be shoved down the throats of people. After reading all the comments, the first thing that came to mind was, "don't people remember The Lion King? When Mufasa is explaining the Circle of Life to Simba?"

It worked for the caveman, it worked for the Native Americans, it still works to this day. Simple as that. But to each their own, and whatever makes them happy. Hakuna matata

Right, a Disney film about the lives of animals who don't have any other options. Right. Any other academic links?

Glasgow_Vegan

Doesn't it bother you that you've contributed to the death of thousands of innocent fruits and vegetables that were doing nothing other than minding their own business and growing happily in the sun?

You know very well that fruit and vegetables are inanimate. It's a rights issue just like racism or homophobia. In the future people will look back on meat eating in the same way we now view the slave trade.

Okay... I was OBVIOUSLY kidding. But you comparing animals to the plight of people of all backgrounds and beliefs is way, way beyond the pale. People will not look back and think of this issue in the same light as the slave trade. People will not look back on this and think about it in the same vein as the same-sex marriage debate. That you seem to value animal rights that much more than human life is, well, deeply disturbing to me. But hey, that's my view and I have a right to it - just as you have a right to yours.

Also, I'm fairly sure that animals eat each other in the wild. I don't think they feel bad about the pain they inflict when they kill each other to survive. It's how nature has always worked. But I'll change my stance when I see all of the carnivorous animals of the world taking up veganism, joining PETA, and renouncing their past bad acts.

I'll also be waiting for pigs to fly and for monkeys to play Mozart. We'll see which of those happens first.

- Which part exactly of 'we are not animals and have free will' do you have a problem understanding?

Glasgow_Vegan

Why is it Vegans are always about the treating of animals instead of just being Vegan just because they don't like eating meat, cheese etc.. It's like they are always on some silly cause that can never be fully justified meaning, they won't eat animals because of animal cruelty but yet they will wear leather shoes or sit in a leather chair, or wear a leather belt, etc... Those animals had to die for that too but I guess that's ok the in the scheme of what they pick and choose what is right and wrong but its the same thing. Seems like most are extremest who are coo coo ..:ohwell:

You might want to do some research because vegans DON'T wear wool, leather, silk or any animal products. Neither do they use any products containing animals ingredients or tested on animals.

Carol_L

People once widely believed that people with darker skin tone (i.e. Africans) were less than human, and could be treated in inhumane ways, at some level, this is not much different than thinking that animals can be treated in inhumane ways.

Have you ever actually been on a farm, or are remotely acquainted with anyone who works within the agricultural sector? Particularly in the area of animal husbandry?

Anyone I know who does farm or works in that sector will tell you that anyone mistreating the animals in their care is a poor excuse for a farmer and a bad business person to boot. Raising animals properly is a commitment intensive business, that requires more dedication and care than those who stridently oppose the industry are capable of exhibiting. It's easier to hang out at Starbucks on a moral high horse than to deal with a turned calf, or a sick animal.

3bambi3

Doesn't it bother you that you've contributed to the death of thousands of innocent fruits and vegetables that were doing nothing other than minding their own business and growing happily in the sun?

You know very well that fruit and vegetables are inanimate. It's a rights issue just like racism or homophobia. In the future people will look back on meat eating in the same way we now view the slave trade.

Okay... I was OBVIOUSLY kidding. But you comparing animals to the plight of people of all backgrounds and beliefs is way, way beyond the pale. People will not look back and think of this issue in the same light as the slave trade. People will not look back on this and think about it in the same vein as the same-sex marriage debate. That you seem to value animal rights that much more than human life is, well, deeply disturbing to me. But hey, that's my view and I have a right to it - just as you have a right to yours.

Also, I'm fairly sure that animals eat each other in the wild. I don't think they feel bad about the pain they inflict when they kill each other to survive. It's how nature has always worked. But I'll change my stance when I see all of the carnivorous animals of the world taking up veganism, joining PETA, and renouncing their past bad acts.

I'll also be waiting for pigs to fly and for monkeys to play Mozart. We'll see which of those happens first.

- Which part exactly of 'we are not animals and have free will' do you have a problem understanding?

You seem to care a lot about animals living in horrible conditions for the benefit of a few. I find it ironic, then, that you're rockin' an iPod in your picture, considering the slave labor that produced it is living in conditions worse than some cows or pigs.

RainHoward

Quite simply, old "news". These "studies" have been floating around for years. If there was any truth to them we'd have died as a species a very long time ago.

ipag

This is probably the most ridiculous thread I've ever read on MFP and that's saying something.

Teliooo

You know very well that fruit and vegetables are inanimate. It's a rights issue just like racism or homophobia. In the future people will look back on meat eating in the same way we now view the slave trade.

You're joking right? African American friends and GLBT community members: tell me, do you think people eating meat is comparable to the injustices you've suffered?

Yep. That is pretty offensive. And clueless.

I ashamed for you. To even compare it is sad, really sad, and clueless.

People once widely believed that people with darker skin tone (i.e. Africans) were less than human, and could be treated in inhumane ways, at some level, this is not much different than thinking that animals can be treated in inhumane ways.

Wow, are you for real? Not only what you have said is deeply offensive, it is also unbelievable. IT IS VERY DIFFERENT. These people were not eating us for nutrition, they were using us as slaves, taking us from our natural home, raping, killing children burning and mutilating, us for sport and racism is still happening. This is a board about eating animals, not mistreating them. Animals are largely killed for eating, yes there are people that mistreat them but nowhere near on the same level of persecution that OTHER humans have treated each other for nothing but ignorance. We are talking about Human to human, not human to animal (and yeah I know we are animals). At some level, many things can be compared, it does not mean that the comparison fits.

Glasgow_Vegan

People once widely believed that people with darker skin tone (i.e. Africans) were less than human, and could be treated in inhumane ways, at some level, this is not much different than thinking that animals can be treated in inhumane ways.

Have you ever actually been on a farm, or are remotely acquainted with anyone who works within the agricultural sector? Particularly in the area of animal husbandry?

Anyone I know who does farm or works in that sector will tell you that anyone mistreating the animals in their care is a poor excuse for a farmer and a bad business person to boot. Raising animals properly is a commitment intensive business, that requires more dedication and care than those who stridently oppose the industry are capable of exhibiting. It's easier to hang out at Starbucks on a moral high horse than to deal with a turned calf, or a sick animal.

Yeah, I'm sure some owners were nice to their slaves once in a while but that didn't make it ok either. For what it's worth both of my grandfathers grew up on farms and I stay on farms regularly.

Teliooo

Doesn't it bother you that you've contributed to the death of thousands of innocent fruits and vegetables that were doing nothing other than minding their own business and growing happily in the sun?

You know very well that fruit and vegetables are inanimate. It's a rights issue just like racism or homophobia. In the future people will look back on meat eating in the same way we now view the slave trade.

Okay... I was OBVIOUSLY kidding. But you comparing animals to the plight of people of all backgrounds and beliefs is way, way beyond the pale. People will not look back and think of this issue in the same light as the slave trade. People will not look back on this and think about it in the same vein as the same-sex marriage debate. That you seem to value animal rights that much more than human life is, well, deeply disturbing to me. But hey, that's my view and I have a right to it - just as you have a right to yours.

Also, I'm fairly sure that animals eat each other in the wild. I don't think they feel bad about the pain they inflict when they kill each other to survive. It's how nature has always worked. But I'll change my stance when I see all of the carnivorous animals of the world taking up veganism, joining PETA, and renouncing their past bad acts.

I'll also be waiting for pigs to fly and for monkeys to play Mozart. We'll see which of those happens first.

- Which part exactly of 'we are not animals and have free will' do you have a problem understanding?

You seem to care a lot about animals living in horrible conditions for the benefit of a few. I find it ironic, then, that you're rockin' an iPod in your picture, considering the slave labor that produced it is living in conditions worse than some cows or pigs.

Here here, I hope that iPod was made in a humane way.

wellbert

this thread made me hungry for bacon wrapped steak cooked in a stick of butter.

polarsjewel

Happy animals taste better.

*giggle snort*

Beezil

Wouldn't the human race have become extinct long ago if this bogus research had any legs? Seriously people. Can we use our common sense to question junk science every now and again?

Look at my avatar. Do I look like I am on the brink of diabetes and other metabolic disturbances? That pic is now about 13 years old and I still have the same amount of lean mass and have recently decided to get that lean again "because I want to and I can" since my fitness modeling and competitive days are long over. Check my food journal - plenty of red meat, poultry, eggs and seafood. Balance is the key to good health and fitness. Vegans pump all sort of chemicals and additives into their food to make up for what is lacking. Sorry, but that isn't for me. I prefer to eat food that is clean and hasn't been chemically altered. Call me crazy, but works for me.

I think you mean diabeetus. (You look absolutely stunning, by the way. Totally jealous!) :flowerforyou:

bulbadoof

This seems more like a raw argument instead of a vegan argument. They even suggest you eat meat prepared in different ways. It's good to know, though; guess I need a crockpot.

WifeNMama

My questions are:

A. Why are vegans who are vegan for animal rights reasons ok with testing mice?

B. Why aren't all vegans, who are vegan for animal rights reasons, pro-life? Are you against fetal pig dissection in science class? Seems to me there's a huge hypocrisy there. Until all vegans decide they're prolife, I see no reason to follow suit.

C. If grilling causes this chemical, why not bake meat, instead? There's more than one way to cook a slab of tasty animal.

Edited for typo.

Shock_Wave

vegans DON'T wear wool, leather, silk or any animal products. Neither do they use any products containing animals ingredients or tested on animals.

Wow Vegans= pure coo coo..izm.

Best stay away from folks like me as I am a Vegans worst nightmare. :devil: I wear leather jackets, boots, shoes, belts and I live to eat MEAT, steaks,chicken, pork haha I am your hell on earth and it tastes good while I look good so best stay out of my way and don't try to sell your Vegan or coo coo ism here on mfp based of a mouse experiment. ..wah wah whackos.. FAIL :smokin: :devil:

avasano

I may get hit by a bus tomorrow.

Beezil

If it's not about health, and just an ethical thing to be a vegan - really what you eat should be the least of your concerns. Focus on being an activist instead of buying all organic foods, change laws, fight for better conditions on farms and fight to eradicate factory farming, support local organic farms, raise awareness without being a douche. There are so many more important things that people could be spending their time and energy on in a more productive way than simply choosing not to buy meat or animal products at the store. Really, you're not even making a dent or a difference if that's all you're doing for the cause. The percentage of vegans (at least in the U.S) is very, very low. Just pointing that out.

If it's just for your health, then I truly hope you know what you're doing because it's extremely difficult to go vegan and also maintain good health.

Mr_Bad_Example

Doesn't it bother you that you've contributed to the death of thousands of innocent fruits and vegetables that were doing nothing other than minding their own business and growing happily in the sun?

You know very well that fruit and vegetables are inanimate. It's a rights issue just like racism or homophobia. In the future people will look back on meat eating in the same way we now view the slave trade.

Okay... I was OBVIOUSLY kidding. But you comparing animals to the plight of people of all backgrounds and beliefs is way, way beyond the pale. People will not look back and think of this issue in the same light as the slave trade. People will not look back on this and think about it in the same vein as the same-sex marriage debate. That you seem to value animal rights that much more than human life is, well, deeply disturbing to me. But hey, that's my view and I have a right to it - just as you have a right to yours.

Also, I'm fairly sure that animals eat each other in the wild. I don't think they feel bad about the pain they inflict when they kill each other to survive. It's how nature has always worked. But I'll change my stance when I see all of the carnivorous animals of the world taking up veganism, joining PETA, and renouncing their past bad acts.

I'll also be waiting for pigs to fly and for monkeys to play Mozart. We'll see which of those happens first.

- Which part exactly of 'we are not animals and have free will' do you have a problem understanding?

Which part of respect for human life don't you get?

icimani

mmmm...poached t-bone. NOT!

LottieLou13

Chemical found in grilled meat that is linked to weight gain, diabetes, etc.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/26/grilled-meat-weight-gain-diabetes_n_1828486.html?utm_hp_ref=healthy-living





In a new study in mice, researchers have found a link between a compound produced when food is cooked with dry heat -- like over a grill -- and weight gain, insulin resistance and diabetes.

When the compound, called methyl-glyoxal, a kind of advanced glycation endproduct, was fed to mice, Mount Sinai School of Medicine researchers found that the mice went on to gain weight around their abdomens. They also developed early insulin resistance.

However, mice that were not given the compound -- but were otherwise fed the same diet as the mice given the compound -- did not go on to gain the extra body fat or develop insulin resistance. The findings are published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Methyl-glyoxal may affect the mice by decreasing the ability of bodily mechanisms like SIRT1, which is responsible for controlling inflammation, as well as aiding in glucose and insulin metabolism, researchers said. In other words, it may decrease the mice's ability to control inflammation in their bodies.

"The study demonstrates how the prolonged ingestion of seemingly innocuous substances common in human food, such as MG [methyl-glyoxal], can reduce defenses and compromise native resistance to metabolic and other diseases," study researcher Dr. Helen Vlassara, M.D., director of theDivision of Experimental Diabetes and Aging at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine, said in a statement. "The mouse findings are also quite exciting because they provide us with new tools, not only to study, but to begin taking measures to prevent diabetes, either by suppressing their formation or by blocking their absorption with our food."

Even though this research was only in mice, the findings suggest that people might want to opt to eat meat that's been cooked with lower heat or moisture, such as steamed, stewed or poached meat, researchers said.

Recently, a study in the journal Carcinogenesis showed that meat that's been cooked in a pan might carry health risks, too.


That study, conducted by scientists at the University of Southern California and Cancer Prevention Institute of California, showed that men who eat one-and-a-half servings of pan-fried red meat each week have a 30 percent increased risk of being diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer.

And the researchers found that the risk went up the more pan-fried meat the men ate -- men who ate two-and-a-half servings of pan-fried red meat was linked with a 40 percent higher risk of having advanced prostate cancer.

....vegan and vegatarian aren't the same thing.

Also is this just to do with meat or all food cooked over a dry heat?