Excited about Lance Armstrong!
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The most sucessful cheater is STILL a cheater.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
I'll bet you that silly little car you're leaning on that if they put the 5th, 12th, 25th, and all other finishers in between under a more detailed microscope they would find they all were doing something as well. Once again, I don't care about a goofy bike race as I can safely say, no one else on this thread does either. I still have yet to hear anyone talk about how they have watched the Tour de france for years and now feel cheated. It's just a bunch of people hopping on the 'Hatin' on Lance' wagon. As I have stated many times in this post, and many of you have missed because let's be honest, reading is not your thing, I want to know what he did and how he did it. Anyone who believes Lance is the only guy in the tour cheating is crazier than Charles Manson eating froot loops, but he is the most successful at it.
That is like a husband cheating on his wife but only cheating with supermodels.
HE IS STILL A CHEATER.
Even if all of his workmates are also cheaters, HE IS STILL A CHEATER.
I could personally care less about bike racing. Lance Armstrong attempted to pass himself off as something he wasn't.
Ok.. So he was the most sucessful cheater? Great. so he cheats better then anyone else. Well, maybe not because he GOT CAUGHT.
And as far as my "silly little car" is concerned, win or lose, at least I never cheated in a race.
:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:0 -
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
"Cheating" is a term defined by the sport. In determining what I may or may not want to do with my own body, it matters not to me if a certain competitive sports board has determined it is a "cheat". I am not a professional cyclist, so I may be willing to "cheat" depending entirely on what the "cheat" is. That's what I want to know. What "cheats" was he using?
I don't care if you are impressed by what he did. I don't care who you think are champs and who aren't. I simply want to know *what* he did. Period. The end.0 -
The most sucessful cheater is STILL a cheater.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
I'll bet you that silly little car you're leaning on that if they put the 5th, 12th, 25th, and all other finishers in between under a more detailed microscope they would find they all were doing something as well. Once again, I don't care about a goofy bike race as I can safely say, no one else on this thread does either. I still have yet to hear anyone talk about how they have watched the Tour de france for years and now feel cheated. It's just a bunch of people hopping on the 'Hatin' on Lance' wagon. As I have stated many times in this post, and many of you have missed because let's be honest, reading is not your thing, I want to know what he did and how he did it. Anyone who believes Lance is the only guy in the tour cheating is crazier than Charles Manson eating froot loops, but he is the most successful at it.
That is like a husband cheating on his wife but only cheating with supermodels.
HE IS STILL A CHEATER.
Even if all of his workmates are also cheaters, HE IS STILL A CHEATER.
I could personally care less about bike racing. Lance Armstrong attempted to pass himself off as something he wasn't.
Ok.. So he was the most sucessful cheater? Great. so he cheats better then anyone else. Well, maybe not because he GOT CAUGHT.
And as far as my "silly little car" is concerned, win or lose, at least I never cheated in a race.
Again, you have failed to contribute to what this post is actually about. I'm also guessing you have not had many successes in your life, being that successful is the only word you spelled wrong, not once, but twice.0 -
Many of you have said it: the doping isn't even the issue - it's the years of lying.
From a performance point of view, they were all doping --- thus, it WAS an even playing field and for that, his athletic accomplishments stand on their own, as far as I'm concerned.
From a personality standpoint, he's nothing unusual. The fact that he's arrogant, self-centered & selfish isn't suprising - most people performing at that level (sports, surgery, concert piano) tend towards those characteristics.
From a human perspective, tho, he's a turd. The fact that he lied for so long and so convincingly and in the face of so much evidence to the contrary - that is the disheartening thing for me. I don't fault LiveStrong --- they are trying to do good work. I hope people don't pull their support for the origanization just because the founder is an *kitten*. I feel badly for his family and supporters - to have been duped for so long (I include myself here).
My only real questions for Mr. Armstrong are: Did you get what you wanted from all this? Was it worth it?
And then I'd like to kick him in his remaining ball...
BUT - back to the original post: I'd love to know WHAT he was using and HOW. His physical abilities are superhuman - if I could enhance my performance without risking my overall health, why wouldn't I? No one is testing MY blood for PEDs and I'm not in competition with anyone but the Grim Reaper. I'll cheat him every way I can...0 -
Many of you have said it: the doping isn't even the issue - it's the years of lying.
From a performance point of view, they were all doping --- thus, it WAS an even playing field and for that, his athletic accomplishments stand on their own, as far as I'm concerned.
From a personality standpoint, he's nothing unusual. The fact that he's arrogant, self-centered & selfish isn't suprising - most people performing at that level (sports, surgery, concert piano) tend towards those characteristics.
From a human perspective, tho, he's a turd. The fact that he lied for so long and so convincingly and in the face of so much evidence to the contrary - that is the disheartening thing for me. I don't fault LiveStrong --- they are trying to do good work. I hope people don't pull their support for the origanization just because the founder is an *kitten*. I feel badly for his family and supporters - to have been duped for so long (I include myself here).
My only real questions for Mr. Armstrong are: Did you get what you wanted from all this? Was it worth it?
And then I'd like to kick him in his remaining ball...
Have you even read what this thread is about or are you just flaming LA because you're so mad? There are several of us that are very curious about how a man who went through what he went through was able to not only fight his way back to health but to multiple TdF titles. Personally, I don't care if he "cheated" and you know very well everyone else any where near the top of the TdF was doing the same thing. We want to know what he was taking because we may want it for ourselves. Why is that so difficult for for several of you to wrap your minds around?0 -
You are correct.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
"Cheating" is a term defined by the sport. In determining what I may or may not want to do with my own body, it matters not to me if a certain competitive sports board has determined it is a "cheat". I am not a professional cyclist, so I may be willing to "cheat" depending entirely on what the "cheat" is. That's what I want to know. What "cheats" was he using?
I don't care if you are impressed by what he did. I don't care who you think are champs and who aren't. I simply want to know *what* he did. Period. The end.
Cheating is in fact determined by the sport and, in the sport of professional cycling, he cheated.
He took a substance which was not allowed by the folks who make the rules.
That is cheating.
That makes every single win a tainted win.
All of those kids who looked up to him are now realizing that they were looking up to a cheater.
No, I don't know the details of whatever he was taking but obviously, it was enough for the rule makers to determine that he did in fact break the rules.0 -
Many of you have said it: the doping isn't even the issue - it's the years of lying.
From a performance point of view, they were all doping --- thus, it WAS an even playing field and for that, his athletic accomplishments stand on their own, as far as I'm concerned.
From a personality standpoint, he's nothing unusual. The fact that he's arrogant, self-centered & selfish isn't suprising - most people performing at that level (sports, surgery, concert piano) tend towards those characteristics.
From a human perspective, tho, he's a turd. The fact that he lied for so long and so convincingly and in the face of so much evidence to the contrary - that is the disheartening thing for me. I don't fault LiveStrong --- they are trying to do good work. I hope people don't pull their support for the origanization just because the founder is an *kitten*. I feel badly for his family and supporters - to have been duped for so long (I include myself here).
My only real questions for Mr. Armstrong are: Did you get what you wanted from all this? Was it worth it?
And then I'd like to kick him in his remaining ball...
Have you even read what this thread is about or are you just flaming LA because you're so mad? There are several of us that are very curious about how a man who went through what he went through was able to not only fight his way back to health but to multiple TdF titles. Personally, I don't care if he "cheated" and you know very well everyone else any where near the top of the TdF was doing the same thing. We want to know what he was taking because we may want it for ourselves. Why is that so difficult for for several of you to wrap your minds around?
I was editing my post for that very reason -- while you were yelling at me... look again.0 -
You are correct.
Cheating is in fact determined by the sport and, in the sport of professional cycling, he cheated.
He took a substance which was not allowed by the folks who make the rules.
That is cheating.
That makes every single win a tainted win.
All of those kids who looked up to him are now realizing that they were looking up to a cheater.
No, I don't know the details of whatever he was taking but obviously, it was enough for the rule makers to determine that he did in fact break the rules.
So what you're saying is that you feel like Lance Armstrong has rubbed his taint all over you? I'd be pissed at him too.0 -
FYI - OP and others might want to recognize a post-hijacking when they see one. We talk about what we want, tough guy.0
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FYI - OP and others might want to recognize a post-hijacking when they see one. We talk about what we want, tough guy.
Ahhh condescendingly calling me a tough guy. You're adorable little girl.0 -
Ah.. a personal attack.
The most sucessful cheater is STILL a cheater.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
I'll bet you that silly little car you're leaning on that if they put the 5th, 12th, 25th, and all other finishers in between under a more detailed microscope they would find they all were doing something as well. Once again, I don't care about a goofy bike race as I can safely say, no one else on this thread does either. I still have yet to hear anyone talk about how they have watched the Tour de france for years and now feel cheated. It's just a bunch of people hopping on the 'Hatin' on Lance' wagon. As I have stated many times in this post, and many of you have missed because let's be honest, reading is not your thing, I want to know what he did and how he did it. Anyone who believes Lance is the only guy in the tour cheating is crazier than Charles Manson eating froot loops, but he is the most successful at it.
That is like a husband cheating on his wife but only cheating with supermodels.
HE IS STILL A CHEATER.
Even if all of his workmates are also cheaters, HE IS STILL A CHEATER.
I could personally care less about bike racing. Lance Armstrong attempted to pass himself off as something he wasn't.
Ok.. So he was the most sucessful cheater? Great. so he cheats better then anyone else. Well, maybe not because he GOT CAUGHT.
And as far as my "silly little car" is concerned, win or lose, at least I never cheated in a race.
Again, you have failed to contribute to what this post is actually about. I'm also guessing you have not had many successes in your life, being that successful is the only word you spelled wrong, not once, but twice.
That is the first sign that you have nothing left to say.
I served with honor in the United States Army (success)
I have been married to the same woman for 14 years. (success)
I have a low stress and good paying job (success)
I am raising two children who, so far, have managed to stay out of trouble (success)
So, tell me again about my lack of success?
From what I can gather, it is about people wanting to know what drugs Lance was taking so they to can take these same drugs. I really don't have a problem with that. As others have mentioned, I think ALL drugs should be legal. Lets thin out the herd a little bit and let people kill themselfs.
However; like it or not, this thread took the natural turn to Lance Armstrong being a cheater.0 -
FYI - OP and others might want to recognize a post-hijacking when they see one. We talk about what we want, tough guy.
Ahhh condescendingly calling me a tough guy. You're adorable little girl.
Wow, who pissed in your wheaties? Oh, wait... I guess I did.0 -
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.0 -
FYI - OP and others might want to recognize a post-hijacking when they see one. We talk about what we want, tough guy.
Ahhh condescendingly calling me a tough guy. You're adorable little girl.
Wow, who pissed in your wheaties? Oh, wait... I guess I did.
I'm actually loling here. You seem to be really upset about the guy and your comments were the rude ones. I couldn't care less about his personal life, his treatment of people, etc. And I couldn't care less about you or your opinion of me or anyone else. He and his doctors may very well have found the "magic pill" though and I'm curious. If that gets your panties in a wad then meh.
I guess at least you're no longer on my friend's list. That's progress!0 -
My brother in law is a competitive road racer and he doesn't dope.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
He is also a moron but, that's beside the point.
It appears that you are suggesting that unless you are willing to be a cheater, don't even play the game.
At what point did we decide that it was OK to cheat as long we we win?0 -
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
My simple logic of this.
His bike crossed the finish line first- he won. Had his bike been enhanced that took away the physical effort required to make it move, or it be discovered he shorted a course and skipped distance then I would consider him a cheater. To me his body did the work- so he "enhanced" it to make it work better, I don't care.
If the sport has rules that state PED's are not allowed it should be a test em' all policy, Otherwise hypocrisy rules the roost.0 -
My brother in law is a competitive road racer and he doesn't dope.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
He is also a moron but, that's beside the point.
It appears that you are suggesting that unless you are willing to be a cheater, don't even play the game.
At what point did we decide that it was OK to cheat as long we we win?
I'm suggesting that if you know the game is rigged but choose to play anyway, you don't get to whine about it after. Rules are whatever people make them to be. What is written in a book usually has nothing to do with how rules are enforced or what coaches, refs, officials and participants are actually expected to do. The rules of basketball don't allow ANY physical contact. Have you watched a basketball game?
I'm just trying to hand you a pair of reality goggles.0 -
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
My simple logic of this.
His bike crossed the finish line first- he won. Had his bike been enhanced that took away the physical effort required to make it move, or it be discovered he shorted a course and skipped distance then I would consider him a cheater. To me his body did the work- so he "enhanced" it to make it work better, I don't care.
If the sport has rules that state PED's are not allowed it should be a test em' all policy, Otherwise hypocrisy rules the roost.
Good point, although I realize it wasn't the point you intended to make.
If they had determined that he won by cheating by modifying his bike, and if I was interested in making my bike faster, I would want to know more about what he did. Sure, I may decide not to do it because it's unsafe, or perhaps it's too expensive, but I'd still like to know so I can decide for myself. It really doesn't matter whether or not he is a dbag for purposes of *this* discussion. Just because it's against the rules doesn't invalidate that there may be beneficial applications.0 -
And while I do appreaciate the goggles, the facts remain.
My brother in law is a competitive road racer and he doesn't dope.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
He is also a moron but, that's beside the point.
It appears that you are suggesting that unless you are willing to be a cheater, don't even play the game.
At what point did we decide that it was OK to cheat as long we we win?
I'm suggesting that if you know the game is rigged but choose to play anyway, you don't get to whine about it after. Rules are whatever people make them to be. What is written in a book usually has nothing to do with how rules are enforced or what coaches, refs, officials and participants are actually expected to do. The rules of basketball don't allow ANY physical contact. Have you watched a basketball game?
I'm just trying to hand you a pair of reality goggles.
Lance Armstrong cheated.
Lance Armstrong got busted.
Lance Armstrong is now known as as cheater.
Yes, people will try to cheat and, sometimes, people will get busted cheating.
Yes, I understand your basketball analogy and I am glad you mentioned it.
They will rub, bump, and check but, every once in a while, they will get busted for it.
I think the big difference here is that when most of those players finally get caught sending someone across the court, they don't whine about it.
Lance denied it over and over.
Lance cheated plain and simple.0 -
He had cancer in his ball sac. It does not impress me that his lungs were still able to process oxygen. One day, I shoved a 7lb 6 oz baby out of my loins. It took 9 hours and 21 minutes, but my lungs processed oxygen the entire time. Impressed?
If giving birth is such an accomplishment, how come there's 7 Billion people on earth? Beyond Mundane.0
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