Excited about Lance Armstrong!
Replies
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Many of you have said it: the doping isn't even the issue - it's the years of lying.
From a performance point of view, they were all doping --- thus, it WAS an even playing field and for that, his athletic accomplishments stand on their own, as far as I'm concerned.
From a personality standpoint, he's nothing unusual. The fact that he's arrogant, self-centered & selfish isn't suprising - most people performing at that level (sports, surgery, concert piano) tend towards those characteristics.
From a human perspective, tho, he's a turd. The fact that he lied for so long and so convincingly and in the face of so much evidence to the contrary - that is the disheartening thing for me. I don't fault LiveStrong --- they are trying to do good work. I hope people don't pull their support for the origanization just because the founder is an *kitten*. I feel badly for his family and supporters - to have been duped for so long (I include myself here).
My only real questions for Mr. Armstrong are: Did you get what you wanted from all this? Was it worth it?
And then I'd like to kick him in his remaining ball...
BUT - back to the original post: I'd love to know WHAT he was using and HOW. His physical abilities are superhuman - if I could enhance my performance without risking my overall health, why wouldn't I? No one is testing MY blood for PEDs and I'm not in competition with anyone but the Grim Reaper. I'll cheat him every way I can...
Holy crap!!! Reasoning, logic, and understanding! I like you!0 -
My brother in law is a competitive road racer and he doesn't dope.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
He is also a moron but, that's beside the point.
It appears that you are suggesting that unless you are willing to be a cheater, don't even play the game.
At what point did we decide that it was OK to cheat as long we we win?
This actually got a chuckle out of me.
Regarding your other post. Yes I am running out of things to say because I can only rephrase the same thing so many times. I don't care about his personality, don't care about the TdF, I care about how an old man who made it through cancer, lost a ball, battled age and STILL competed at such an insane level. Yes, if the pros outweigh the con's I would not rule out getting on board with what he does. That being said, HgH is very easy to get and the pro's out weight the con's as well as many variants of injectable peptides yet I take none of them.
But we can play this game until you get bored, you can all keep saying hes a liar and a cheater, I'll keep saying, I don't care, that's not what I'm interested in0 -
Many of you have said it: the doping isn't even the issue - it's the years of lying.
From a performance point of view, they were all doping --- thus, it WAS an even playing field and for that, his athletic accomplishments stand on their own, as far as I'm concerned.
From a personality standpoint, he's nothing unusual. The fact that he's arrogant, self-centered & selfish isn't suprising - most people performing at that level (sports, surgery, concert piano) tend towards those characteristics.
From a human perspective, tho, he's a turd. The fact that he lied for so long and so convincingly and in the face of so much evidence to the contrary - that is the disheartening thing for me. I don't fault LiveStrong --- they are trying to do good work. I hope people don't pull their support for the origanization just because the founder is an *kitten*. I feel badly for his family and supporters - to have been duped for so long (I include myself here).
My only real questions for Mr. Armstrong are: Did you get what you wanted from all this? Was it worth it?
And then I'd like to kick him in his remaining ball...
BUT - back to the original post: I'd love to know WHAT he was using and HOW. His physical abilities are superhuman - if I could enhance my performance without risking my overall health, why wouldn't I? No one is testing MY blood for PEDs and I'm not in competition with anyone but the Grim Reaper. I'll cheat him every way I can...
Holy crap!!! Reasoning, logic, and understanding! I like you!
LOL - completely unintentional, I assure you. :laugh:0 -
Yeah, I'm totally sorry I want the stuff that makes me a world class athlete at 40+ years old. What the hell was I thinking ?
That you want to get cancer, or liver damage, and die early? That's what I'm guessing. Or possibly go on a roid rage, piss off the wrong person, get killed? Cuz I know someone like that... he didn't die, but he got beat so badly he probably wished he had died... lost an eye, had an ear ripped off..... roid rage is awesome, eh?
Well I'm pretty sure steroids can be ruled out at that was a designer drug for bodybuilders mostly and died off in the mid 90's when the much safer HgH rolled out.
Second, If we hate PED's so much and the 'cheaters' who use them, how come the Arnold Classic stays so popular? and why did Bush part 1 make him the Chairman on the presidents council for physical fitness?!?! This dude won over a dozen body building championships while on steroids! He cheated since day one by your description, yet we can't stop honoring the guy and using him as the example on success0 -
A "moral chip" on my shoulder?
No I don't but, I do know who Lance Armstrong is. You don't need to be a race bike fan to know that.
And thats fine that people would like to know what that amazing formula was that he was taking.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You really just don't get it do you? We get that you're unimpressed. Its just that all those guys at 5th, 12th or 25th were also juicing, just probably not with whatever magic combination LA's doctors found. Go look it up. That's why a few of us are curious about the old dude that kept winning.
I am sure it will be on the web by the weekend.
Now, you are saying that all of those other guys were also jucing.
Unfortunitally, most of the facts say that you are incorrect. You are making assumptions which are unverifiable.
There are several other racers who also got busted doping and they got punished.
There are also a number of racers who did NOT dope at all.
They have been tested and they have the reputation of being clean by both friends and the competition alike.
Sure, many people are more then willing to take all kinds of enhancements in order to gain "an edge" and I don't judge them one bit.
However; when that substance is banned by whatever sport they are competing in, then they are cheating plain and simple.
Even if "everyone else" is doing it, it is still cheating.
Lance Armstrong, for all of the good he has ever done, will now and forever be known as the guy who cheated.
Do you even watch cycling?
Is there a point to your question?
Does the fact that I am not a bicycle fan make my opinions of a cheater somehow less valid?
Yes. Your opinions of racing are absolutely irrelevant and your statement that I'm making claims that are unverifiable are incorrect. You may want to go look at the stats on cheating at the TdF. Its pretty bad to put it mildly. Yes, there are a few who have not tested positive, but you should know that LA wasn't caught until a full court press was put on him, and then only after several rounds and many years of that by multiple agencies. At some point the cheating becomes so bad and the enforcement so lax and after the fact, that one either plays the game and cheats, or just throws in the towel. I doubt you agree because you seem to live in a black and white world, but I think many of us see shades of grey.
Of course, LA's morality and the rest of this is still a complete side bar to the actual discussion that several of us were attempting to have here before people like yourself with moral chips on your shoulders side tracked it.
Frankly, I'm done communicating with you because you have nothing to add and have demonstrated a complete ignorance of the subject at hand. I always enjoy debate with the informed and logical but its never productive with the ignorant who refuse to educate themselves on the subject matter.
Well screw the hell out of me for wanting some morals.
If you want to worship a guy who got ahead by beaing a cheater, well, I suppose that has a lot to say about your own morals as well.0 -
Did you ever consider the possibility that he got cancer BECAUSE of the drugs he was taking.
My brother in law is a competitive road racer and he doesn't dope.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
He is also a moron but, that's beside the point.
It appears that you are suggesting that unless you are willing to be a cheater, don't even play the game.
At what point did we decide that it was OK to cheat as long we we win?
This actually got a chuckle out of me.
Regarding your other post. Yes I am running out of things to say because I can only rephrase the same thing so many times. I don't care about his personality, don't care about the TdF, I care about how an old man who made it through cancer, lost a ball, battled age and STILL competed at such an insane level. Yes, if the pros outweigh the con's I would not rule out getting on board with what he does. That being said, HgH is very easy to get and the pro's out weight the con's as well as many variants of injectable peptides yet I take none of them.
But we can play this game until you get bored, you can all keep saying hes a liar and a cheater, I'll keep saying, I don't care, that's not what I'm interested in0 -
This thread is amusing - all the people getting worked up about it.
I'll add one or two things as a racer fan boy - I've watched about a dozen TdF (3 in person) and ridden with Lance (for a short time at a RAGBRAI).
Why are PEDs not allowed? Somewhere along the way people forgot that PEDs are the fastest way having young atheletes die for the sport. As you push the limit of the sport, the difference between dying on your bike and getting on a podium was small when the PEDs made the difference. A training program for many sports includes a lot of stupid things done "for the win". Rules are placed, in part, to avoid injury and death.
When pro racers enhance and get caught, its right that they get tossed out - as bad as the UCI, FFC, USADA and the others have been in the past in managing doping - they do seem to get things right with the bio. passport and more serious testing of riders off races. About fucking time.
The promotion of a doping lifestyle puts young atheletes at risk - Lance and Co. having been riding high and banking it in by doing just that. He is a great athelete, and I have supported his charity in the past ( a close rider friend is a cancer survivor and a speaker for them) and will continue to do so.
Him? I watched a few minutes of his mea culpa, he won't get my attention again - I wouldn't pee on him if he caught on fire.
RIP, Tommy.
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its funny to see him try to be so sincere in the Oprah interview. and yet he continues to lie. he seems to only admit things that are outside the statute of limitations. but i guess he has to continue to lie so that he doesnt lose all his money and go to jail.0
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I think it took a lot of ball for Lance to come clean.
Personally I couldn't care less about what people put in their body, as long as they're willing to pay the full price for it. So if someone treats their body like a test lab and as a result their nuts shrivel up like raisins, they grow roid tits and develop early onset hardening of the arteries but they pay for their healthcare and support their families-- then I say "Have at it"0 -
yes drugs are bad... we can beat that dead horse with a stick for ever and ever....
Should he have sued all those people.... probably not...
Did he get stripped of all his race titles for drug use... yes
Is he still pretty kick *kitten*... yes
The fricken guy beat cancer how many times AND still managed to win the tour de france how many times? Screw all you guys i dont care what drugs he was on that man is still an inspiration to all those who suffer from major illnesses... regardless of all the media crap hes going through right now i will always think of him as a pretty kick *kitten* individual0 -
yes drugs are bad... we can beat that dead horse with a stick for ever and ever....
Should he have sued all those people.... probably not...
Did he get stripped of all his race titles for drug use... yes
Is he still pretty kick *kitten*... yes
The fricken guy beat cancer how many times AND still managed to win the tour de france how many times? Screw all you guys i dont care what drugs he was on that man is still an inspiration to all those who suffer from major illnesses... regardless of all the media crap hes going through right now i will always think of him as a pretty kick *kitten* individual
i dont see how anyone could be inspired by him anymore. unless you want to lie, cheat and ruin people's lives on the way to wealth.0 -
Did you ever consider the possibility that he got cancer BECAUSE of the drugs he was taking.
My brother in law is a competitive road racer and he doesn't dope.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
He is also a moron but, that's beside the point.
It appears that you are suggesting that unless you are willing to be a cheater, don't even play the game.
At what point did we decide that it was OK to cheat as long we we win?
This actually got a chuckle out of me.
Regarding your other post. Yes I am running out of things to say because I can only rephrase the same thing so many times. I don't care about his personality, don't care about the TdF, I care about how an old man who made it through cancer, lost a ball, battled age and STILL competed at such an insane level. Yes, if the pros outweigh the con's I would not rule out getting on board with what he does. That being said, HgH is very easy to get and the pro's out weight the con's as well as many variants of injectable peptides yet I take none of them.
But we can play this game until you get bored, you can all keep saying hes a liar and a cheater, I'll keep saying, I don't care, that's not what I'm interested in
google ________causes cancer, the blank spot is open for anything you want to type there. I've done it and found anything you can imagine has one study or another about causing cancer. Sex, breathing, farting, laughing hard, snoring, all cause cancer apparently. So yeah, unless he was chewing on asbestos gum while laying under a UV lamp for 14 hours a day, and pounding pepsi max for a PED regime, I'm really not concerned.0 -
:drinker:yes drugs are bad... we can beat that dead horse with a stick for ever and ever....
Should he have sued all those people.... probably not...
Did he get stripped of all his race titles for drug use... yes
Is he still pretty kick *kitten*... yes
The fricken guy beat cancer how many times AND still managed to win the tour de france how many times? Screw all you guys i dont care what drugs he was on that man is still an inspiration to all those who suffer from major illnesses... regardless of all the media crap hes going through right now i will always think of him as a pretty kick *kitten* individual0 -
yes drugs are bad... we can beat that dead horse with a stick for ever and ever....
Should he have sued all those people.... probably not...
Did he get stripped of all his race titles for drug use... yes
Is he still pretty kick *kitten*... yes
The fricken guy beat cancer how many times AND still managed to win the tour de france how many times? Screw all you guys i dont care what drugs he was on that man is still an inspiration to all those who suffer from major illnesses... regardless of all the media crap hes going through right now i will always think of him as a pretty kick *kitten* individual
i dont see how anyone could be inspired by him anymore. unless you want to lie, cheat and ruin people's lives on the way to wealth.
HE HAD CANCER...HE BEAT CANCER....
Enough said?
If everyone would just stop with the cheating crap and go back to the fact that even without doping he beat cancer and is STILL a better athlete than you will ever be. So yes sorry but i think anyone who has beat cancer and is still a high performance athlete is still pretty damn amazing0 -
HE HAD CANCER...HE BEAT CANCER....
Enough said?
If everyone would just stop with the cheating crap and go back to the fact that even without doping he beat cancer and is STILL a better athlete than you will ever be. So yes sorry but i think anyone who has beat cancer and is still a high performance athlete is still pretty damn amazing
so if Bernie Madoff beat cancer then he would be an inspiration to us all even though he ruined people's lives?0 -
This is, at least for me, a fascinating thread to read. There are a lot of different viewpoints and, to some extent, I can see where most of them come from. Personally, I have never really cared if Armstrong used PED's or not. From everything I have ever read and from cyclists with who I have spoken, it sounds like all of the top competitors were doing it. So, I don't know that it really gave him an advantage over anyone else. I don't know enough about PED's to intelligently argue whether or not they cause damage to the body. I have heard a lot of people swear that HGH will one day be legal and that it is truly the fountain of youth. So who knows!
But that aside, I am not one to put athletes on a pedestal. We are all flawed beings and due to the stress (both physical and mental) involved in competing at the highest level, I think professional athletes are more prone to err in these matters. The thing that does bother me about this guy is the fact that he set out to destroy people who didn't want to go along with the lies. The threats, law suits, and general bullying that went on to protect his lie are inexcusable. Those are the things that have turned me off to Lance Armstrong and those are the things that I think outweigh any good he may have done otherwise.0 -
Guess what guys.
:drinker:yes drugs are bad... we can beat that dead horse with a stick for ever and ever....
Should he have sued all those people.... probably not...
Did he get stripped of all his race titles for drug use... yes
Is he still pretty kick *kitten*... yes
The fricken guy beat cancer how many times AND still managed to win the tour de france how many times? Screw all you guys i dont care what drugs he was on that man is still an inspiration to all those who suffer from major illnesses... regardless of all the media crap hes going through right now i will always think of him as a pretty kick *kitten* individual
I also beat cancer.
I guess that also makes me pretty kick *kitten*.0 -
HE HAD CANCER...HE BEAT CANCER....
Enough said?
If everyone would just stop with the cheating crap and go back to the fact that even without doping he beat cancer and is STILL a better athlete than you will ever be. So yes sorry but i think anyone who has beat cancer and is still a high performance athlete is still pretty damn amazing
so if Bernie Madoff beat cancer then he would be an inspiration to us all even though he ruined people's lives?
1) i have no idea who that is so i am not going to comment on that either way. Your focusing on the fact that he was doping, and not what he has accomplished as a human being (putting the racing aside). If we are going to point out people who are being recognized when they dont deserve to be lets throw in Michael Vick; hes a sick individual who forced animals to fight against each other for his enjoyment and to make money off of most of those dogs died in the process but HEY he can play foot ball again YAY lets all forget that he was killing animals and go watch him be great at foot ball.
Your arguing with me and we arent even on the same topic. I could personally care less what LA did to his own body, i agreed that he shouldnt have lied about it and made such a big anti drug stink. But i still stand by what i said he beat cancer and is still a better athlete than you will EVER be with or without drugs he worked his *kitten* off to get in the shape he is in and stay in it. I dont care how long you dope for you still have to put the effort in to get to where you want to be. Its not like one shot of steroids will INSTANTLY give you a buff appearance it still takes hard work.
So if you are going to argue with me on how I SEE LA then you might as well give up because i dont care that he cheated i dont care that he did drugs. What i do think is that it takes a big person to come out and admit to something it takes a big man to acknowlege when its time to do the right thing and to accept being stripped of all your titles. It takes an EVEN BIGGER man to beat cancer to lose a portion of your "manhood" and still become a world renown athlete when i can imagine when he had cancer he was depressed and didnt feel like leaving the house every day let alone thinking ggetting back on his bike and competing.
So i dont care what you say LA is pretty fricken great and still an inspiration to those being told by doctors right now that they probably shouldnt do something because of the battles they are facing or the repricussions on their body. He has proved to the world over and over again that regardless ANYTHING can be overcomb with the right out look and determination you can make bad things right and achieve your dreams.
So take your "hes a cheater" and shove it because thats going to be pretty damn irrelevant in about a year or 20 -
Guess what guys.
I also beat cancer.
I guess that also makes me pretty kick *kitten*.
as long as you didnt ruin people's lives like Lance you sure are.0 -
Guess what guys.
:drinker:yes drugs are bad... we can beat that dead horse with a stick for ever and ever....
Should he have sued all those people.... probably not...
Did he get stripped of all his race titles for drug use... yes
Is he still pretty kick *kitten*... yes
The fricken guy beat cancer how many times AND still managed to win the tour de france how many times? Screw all you guys i dont care what drugs he was on that man is still an inspiration to all those who suffer from major illnesses... regardless of all the media crap hes going through right now i will always think of him as a pretty kick *kitten* individual
I also beat cancer.
I guess that also makes me pretty kick *kitten*.
That does make you pretty kick *kitten* and the fact that your on this site getting healthy and meeting your goals makes it even more so
:drinker:0 -
HE HAD CANCER...HE BEAT CANCER....
Enough said?
If everyone would just stop with the cheating crap and go back to the fact that even without doping he beat cancer and is STILL a better athlete than you will ever be. So yes sorry but i think anyone who has beat cancer and is still a high performance athlete is still pretty damn amazing
so if Bernie Madoff beat cancer then he would be an inspiration to us all even though he ruined people's lives?
1) i have no idea who that is so i am not going to comment on that either way. Your focusing on the fact that he was doping, and not what he has accomplished as a human being (putting the racing aside). If we are going to point out people who are being recognized when they dont deserve to be lets throw in Michael Vick; hes a sick individual who forced animals to fight against each other for his enjoyment and to make money off of most of those dogs died in the process but HEY he can play foot ball again YAY lets all forget that he was killing animals and go watch him be great at foot ball.
Your arguing with me and we arent even on the same topic. I could personally care less what LA did to his own body, i agreed that he shouldnt have lied about it and made such a big anti drug stink. But i still stand by what i said he beat cancer and is still a better athlete than you will EVER be with or without drugs he worked his *kitten* off to get in the shape he is in and stay in it. I dont care how long you dope for you still have to put the effort in to get to where you want to be. Its not like one shot of steroids will INSTANTLY give you a buff appearance it still takes hard work.
So if you are going to argue with me on how I SEE LA then you might as well give up because i dont care that he cheated i dont care that he did drugs. What i do think is that it takes a big person to come out and admit to something it takes a big man to acknowlege when its time to do the right thing and to accept being stripped of all your titles. It takes an EVEN BIGGER man to beat cancer to lose a portion of your "manhood" and still become a world renown athlete when i can imagine when he had cancer he was depressed and didnt feel like leaving the house every day let alone thinking ggetting back on his bike and competing.
So i dont care what you say LA is pretty fricken great and still an inspiration to those being told by doctors right now that they probably shouldnt do something because of the battles they are facing or the repricussions on their body. He has proved to the world over and over again that regardless ANYTHING can be overcomb with the right out look and determination you can make bad things right and achieve your dreams.
So take your "hes a cheater" and shove it because thats going to be pretty damn irrelevant in about a year or 2
i dont care that he lied or cheated or used PEDs. i care that in order to cover it up he sued, threatened and ruined people's lives in order to do so. and having cancer does not make up for that.0 -
So its not ok for Lance to do it but all the other athletes out there thats ok?
Would you not panic a little if you told a lie and were on the verge of getting caught and thought you would lose everything would your first instinct not be to protect yourself and whats most important to you? what you feel makes you who you are?
And dont try to tell me you wouldnt because unfortunatly it is human nature... did he take it way to far yes yes he did. But hes a human and all humans make mistakes and unfortunatly those mistakes always have an effect on other people.
The biggest difference in this case is that he is famous, if he wouldnt world renown his mistakes wouldnt be such a big deal and have half the planet hating on him.0 -
HE HAD CANCER...HE BEAT CANCER....
Enough said?
If everyone would just stop with the cheating crap and go back to the fact that even without doping he beat cancer and is STILL a better athlete than you will ever be. So yes sorry but i think anyone who has beat cancer and is still a high performance athlete is still pretty damn amazing
so if Bernie Madoff beat cancer then he would be an inspiration to us all even though he ruined people's lives?
I do not have enough bread crumbs to get home after trying to follow this logic
Cancer and it's treatments ravage and destroy your body, much of which does not ever repair. So yes a cancer survivor competing and winning at a world class event is amazing. But throwing other random crap in there and adding cancer is not. But hey, let's go this route, here's a few more:
-If a priest survives cancer and can still touch kids, is he a hero?
-If the Westboro Baptist church all survive cancer are they hero's for for supporting IED's that kill American soldiers?
-If you survive cancer, are you a hero for writing such an insane response?0 -
So its not ok for Lance to do it but all the other athletes out there thats ok?
Would you not panic a little if you told a lie and were on the verge of getting caught and thought you would lose everything would your first instinct not be to protect yourself and whats most important to you? what you feel makes you who you are?
And dont try to tell me you wouldnt because unfortunatly it is human nature... did he take it way to far yes yes he did. But hes a human and all humans make mistakes and unfortunatly those mistakes always have an effect on other people.
The biggest difference in this case is that he is famous, if he wouldnt world renown his mistakes wouldnt be such a big deal and have half the planet hating on him.
wow ...of course people do things when they are desperate...does that make it ok? he is a horrible human being..and he still is continuing to lie.0 -
I do not have enough bread crumbs to get home after trying to follow this logic
Cancer and it's treatments ravage and destroy your body, much of which does not ever repair. So yes a cancer survivor competing and winning at a world class event is amazing. But throwing other random crap in there and adding cancer is not. But hey, let's go this route, here's a few more:
-If a priest survives cancer and can still touch kids, is he a hero?
-If the Westboro Baptist church all survive cancer are they hero's for for supporting IED's that kill American soldiers?
-If you survive cancer, are you a hero for writing such an insane response?
think it through ...i know its hard for you but i think you might be able to do it.
ah forget it...i will spell it out...since i doubt you will be able to...
the other poster was saying we should forgive Lance of all because he beat cancer.
Lance ruined peoples lives.
Madoff ruined peoples lives.
so i asked if Madoff had beaten cancer should we consider him a hero too and forgive him of all.0 -
HE HAD CANCER...HE BEAT CANCER....
Enough said?
If everyone would just stop with the cheating crap and go back to the fact that even without doping he beat cancer and is STILL a better athlete than you will ever be. So yes sorry but i think anyone who has beat cancer and is still a high performance athlete is still pretty damn amazing
so if Bernie Madoff beat cancer then he would be an inspiration to us all even though he ruined people's lives?
I do not have enough bread crumbs to get home after trying to follow this logic
Cancer and it's treatments ravage and destroy your body, much of which does not ever repair. So yes a cancer survivor competing and winning at a world class event is amazing. But throwing other random crap in there and adding cancer is not. But hey, let's go this route, here's a few more:
-If a priest survives cancer and can still touch kids, is he a hero?
-If the Westboro Baptist church all survive cancer are they hero's for for supporting IED's that kill American soldiers?
-If you survive cancer, are you a hero for writing such an insane response?
I have not survived cancer but i have lost many people to it. I think those comparasins are a little outrageous compared to a person lieing about doing drugs and attempting lawsuits.
I am not going to bother touching those examples because that is not what this thread is about it is about how we all feel about LA. Not a religious debate if you would like to have that please feel free to message me and we can have it there.
I have already agreed many times that yes what lance did was wrong but its not something new athletes have been doping for ever and its not going to change the only difference is now that they have made the rules so much more strict (yes to protect the athletes) we will start to see more people getting caught.
The reaction to LA coming out is almost as if people found out that Batman was doping... Good Grief0 -
I do not have enough bread crumbs to get home after trying to follow this logic
Cancer and it's treatments ravage and destroy your body, much of which does not ever repair. So yes a cancer survivor competing and winning at a world class event is amazing. But throwing other random crap in there and adding cancer is not. But hey, let's go this route, here's a few more:
-If a priest survives cancer and can still touch kids, is he a hero?
-If the Westboro Baptist church all survive cancer are they hero's for for supporting IED's that kill American soldiers?
-If you survive cancer, are you a hero for writing such an insane response?
think it through ...i know its hard for you but i think you might be able to do it.
ah forget it...i will spell it out...since i doubt you will be able to...
the other poster was saying we should forgive Lance of all because he beat cancer.
Lance ruined peoples lives.
Madoff ruined peoples lives.
so i asked if Madoff had beaten cancer should we consider him a hero too and forgive him of all.
No i never once said we should forgive lance armstrong feel free to go back and reread my post because clearly you didnt read it well enough the first time. What i said is hes an athlete that was doing drugs big whoop happens all the time. I think that he is still a great athlete consider the odds that he had to beat to get where he was... before all this knocked him down a few pegs.0 -
No i never once said we should forgive lance armstrong feel free to go back and reread my post because clearly you didnt read it well enough the first time. What i said is hes an athlete that was doing drugs big whoop happens all the time. I think that he is still a great athlete consider the odds that he had to beat to get where he was... before all this knocked him down a few pegs.
he is absoultely a great athlete...there is no question about that. and like i said i dont blame him for using PEDs. i just fault him for all the other horrible things he has done.0 -
So its not ok for Lance to do it but all the other athletes out there thats ok?
Would you not panic a little if you told a lie and were on the verge of getting caught and thought you would lose everything would your first instinct not be to protect yourself and whats most important to you? what you feel makes you who you are?
And dont try to tell me you wouldnt because unfortunatly it is human nature... did he take it way to far yes yes he did. But hes a human and all humans make mistakes and unfortunatly those mistakes always have an effect on other people.
The biggest difference in this case is that he is famous, if he wouldnt world renown his mistakes wouldnt be such a big deal and have half the planet hating on him.
wow ...of course people do things when they are desperate...does that make it ok? he is a horrible human being..and he still is continuing to lie.
No it doesnt make it ok but everyone needs to ackowledge that he was not super human before all of this he was very much human and made a lot of human mistakes. I have not once condoned his actions i have only spoken of MY views of him as an ATHLETE. Everyone is free to focus on what ever part of his career as they would like whether its the doing drugs the winning the titles, lying and "wrecking" peoples liives... we are all going to have our opinions and views on it just like everything else on earth and we are all very lucky to come from places that allow us to have debates such as these.
All that i have been trying to say before you all attempted to make me "see the light" about how much of a monster he is... is that i still think that he was and probably still is a pretty great athlete regardless of what all he has done to himself and others. His abilities speak for themself.0 -
No i never once said we should forgive lance armstrong feel free to go back and reread my post because clearly you didnt read it well enough the first time. What i said is hes an athlete that was doing drugs big whoop happens all the time. I think that he is still a great athlete consider the odds that he had to beat to get where he was... before all this knocked him down a few pegs.
he is absoultely a great athlete...there is no question about that. and like i said i dont blame him for using PEDs. i just fault him for all the other horrible things he has done.
so we both agree that hes a great athlete and i dont care about his personal faults and you do... so i dont see why this debate lol.:drinker:0
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