Excited about Lance Armstrong!
Replies
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The most sucessful cheater is STILL a cheater.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
I'll bet you that silly little car you're leaning on that if they put the 5th, 12th, 25th, and all other finishers in between under a more detailed microscope they would find they all were doing something as well. Once again, I don't care about a goofy bike race as I can safely say, no one else on this thread does either. I still have yet to hear anyone talk about how they have watched the Tour de france for years and now feel cheated. It's just a bunch of people hopping on the 'Hatin' on Lance' wagon. As I have stated many times in this post, and many of you have missed because let's be honest, reading is not your thing, I want to know what he did and how he did it. Anyone who believes Lance is the only guy in the tour cheating is crazier than Charles Manson eating froot loops, but he is the most successful at it.
That is like a husband cheating on his wife but only cheating with supermodels.
HE IS STILL A CHEATER.
Even if all of his workmates are also cheaters, HE IS STILL A CHEATER.
I could personally care less about bike racing. Lance Armstrong attempted to pass himself off as something he wasn't.
Ok.. So he was the most sucessful cheater? Great. so he cheats better then anyone else. Well, maybe not because he GOT CAUGHT.
And as far as my "silly little car" is concerned, win or lose, at least I never cheated in a race.
:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:0 -
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
"Cheating" is a term defined by the sport. In determining what I may or may not want to do with my own body, it matters not to me if a certain competitive sports board has determined it is a "cheat". I am not a professional cyclist, so I may be willing to "cheat" depending entirely on what the "cheat" is. That's what I want to know. What "cheats" was he using?
I don't care if you are impressed by what he did. I don't care who you think are champs and who aren't. I simply want to know *what* he did. Period. The end.0 -
The most sucessful cheater is STILL a cheater.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
I'll bet you that silly little car you're leaning on that if they put the 5th, 12th, 25th, and all other finishers in between under a more detailed microscope they would find they all were doing something as well. Once again, I don't care about a goofy bike race as I can safely say, no one else on this thread does either. I still have yet to hear anyone talk about how they have watched the Tour de france for years and now feel cheated. It's just a bunch of people hopping on the 'Hatin' on Lance' wagon. As I have stated many times in this post, and many of you have missed because let's be honest, reading is not your thing, I want to know what he did and how he did it. Anyone who believes Lance is the only guy in the tour cheating is crazier than Charles Manson eating froot loops, but he is the most successful at it.
That is like a husband cheating on his wife but only cheating with supermodels.
HE IS STILL A CHEATER.
Even if all of his workmates are also cheaters, HE IS STILL A CHEATER.
I could personally care less about bike racing. Lance Armstrong attempted to pass himself off as something he wasn't.
Ok.. So he was the most sucessful cheater? Great. so he cheats better then anyone else. Well, maybe not because he GOT CAUGHT.
And as far as my "silly little car" is concerned, win or lose, at least I never cheated in a race.
Again, you have failed to contribute to what this post is actually about. I'm also guessing you have not had many successes in your life, being that successful is the only word you spelled wrong, not once, but twice.0 -
Many of you have said it: the doping isn't even the issue - it's the years of lying.
From a performance point of view, they were all doping --- thus, it WAS an even playing field and for that, his athletic accomplishments stand on their own, as far as I'm concerned.
From a personality standpoint, he's nothing unusual. The fact that he's arrogant, self-centered & selfish isn't suprising - most people performing at that level (sports, surgery, concert piano) tend towards those characteristics.
From a human perspective, tho, he's a turd. The fact that he lied for so long and so convincingly and in the face of so much evidence to the contrary - that is the disheartening thing for me. I don't fault LiveStrong --- they are trying to do good work. I hope people don't pull their support for the origanization just because the founder is an *kitten*. I feel badly for his family and supporters - to have been duped for so long (I include myself here).
My only real questions for Mr. Armstrong are: Did you get what you wanted from all this? Was it worth it?
And then I'd like to kick him in his remaining ball...
BUT - back to the original post: I'd love to know WHAT he was using and HOW. His physical abilities are superhuman - if I could enhance my performance without risking my overall health, why wouldn't I? No one is testing MY blood for PEDs and I'm not in competition with anyone but the Grim Reaper. I'll cheat him every way I can...0 -
Many of you have said it: the doping isn't even the issue - it's the years of lying.
From a performance point of view, they were all doping --- thus, it WAS an even playing field and for that, his athletic accomplishments stand on their own, as far as I'm concerned.
From a personality standpoint, he's nothing unusual. The fact that he's arrogant, self-centered & selfish isn't suprising - most people performing at that level (sports, surgery, concert piano) tend towards those characteristics.
From a human perspective, tho, he's a turd. The fact that he lied for so long and so convincingly and in the face of so much evidence to the contrary - that is the disheartening thing for me. I don't fault LiveStrong --- they are trying to do good work. I hope people don't pull their support for the origanization just because the founder is an *kitten*. I feel badly for his family and supporters - to have been duped for so long (I include myself here).
My only real questions for Mr. Armstrong are: Did you get what you wanted from all this? Was it worth it?
And then I'd like to kick him in his remaining ball...
Have you even read what this thread is about or are you just flaming LA because you're so mad? There are several of us that are very curious about how a man who went through what he went through was able to not only fight his way back to health but to multiple TdF titles. Personally, I don't care if he "cheated" and you know very well everyone else any where near the top of the TdF was doing the same thing. We want to know what he was taking because we may want it for ourselves. Why is that so difficult for for several of you to wrap your minds around?0 -
You are correct.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
"Cheating" is a term defined by the sport. In determining what I may or may not want to do with my own body, it matters not to me if a certain competitive sports board has determined it is a "cheat". I am not a professional cyclist, so I may be willing to "cheat" depending entirely on what the "cheat" is. That's what I want to know. What "cheats" was he using?
I don't care if you are impressed by what he did. I don't care who you think are champs and who aren't. I simply want to know *what* he did. Period. The end.
Cheating is in fact determined by the sport and, in the sport of professional cycling, he cheated.
He took a substance which was not allowed by the folks who make the rules.
That is cheating.
That makes every single win a tainted win.
All of those kids who looked up to him are now realizing that they were looking up to a cheater.
No, I don't know the details of whatever he was taking but obviously, it was enough for the rule makers to determine that he did in fact break the rules.0 -
Many of you have said it: the doping isn't even the issue - it's the years of lying.
From a performance point of view, they were all doping --- thus, it WAS an even playing field and for that, his athletic accomplishments stand on their own, as far as I'm concerned.
From a personality standpoint, he's nothing unusual. The fact that he's arrogant, self-centered & selfish isn't suprising - most people performing at that level (sports, surgery, concert piano) tend towards those characteristics.
From a human perspective, tho, he's a turd. The fact that he lied for so long and so convincingly and in the face of so much evidence to the contrary - that is the disheartening thing for me. I don't fault LiveStrong --- they are trying to do good work. I hope people don't pull their support for the origanization just because the founder is an *kitten*. I feel badly for his family and supporters - to have been duped for so long (I include myself here).
My only real questions for Mr. Armstrong are: Did you get what you wanted from all this? Was it worth it?
And then I'd like to kick him in his remaining ball...
Have you even read what this thread is about or are you just flaming LA because you're so mad? There are several of us that are very curious about how a man who went through what he went through was able to not only fight his way back to health but to multiple TdF titles. Personally, I don't care if he "cheated" and you know very well everyone else any where near the top of the TdF was doing the same thing. We want to know what he was taking because we may want it for ourselves. Why is that so difficult for for several of you to wrap your minds around?
I was editing my post for that very reason -- while you were yelling at me... look again.0 -
You are correct.
Cheating is in fact determined by the sport and, in the sport of professional cycling, he cheated.
He took a substance which was not allowed by the folks who make the rules.
That is cheating.
That makes every single win a tainted win.
All of those kids who looked up to him are now realizing that they were looking up to a cheater.
No, I don't know the details of whatever he was taking but obviously, it was enough for the rule makers to determine that he did in fact break the rules.
So what you're saying is that you feel like Lance Armstrong has rubbed his taint all over you? I'd be pissed at him too.0 -
FYI - OP and others might want to recognize a post-hijacking when they see one. We talk about what we want, tough guy.0
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FYI - OP and others might want to recognize a post-hijacking when they see one. We talk about what we want, tough guy.
Ahhh condescendingly calling me a tough guy. You're adorable little girl.0 -
Ah.. a personal attack.
The most sucessful cheater is STILL a cheater.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
I'll bet you that silly little car you're leaning on that if they put the 5th, 12th, 25th, and all other finishers in between under a more detailed microscope they would find they all were doing something as well. Once again, I don't care about a goofy bike race as I can safely say, no one else on this thread does either. I still have yet to hear anyone talk about how they have watched the Tour de france for years and now feel cheated. It's just a bunch of people hopping on the 'Hatin' on Lance' wagon. As I have stated many times in this post, and many of you have missed because let's be honest, reading is not your thing, I want to know what he did and how he did it. Anyone who believes Lance is the only guy in the tour cheating is crazier than Charles Manson eating froot loops, but he is the most successful at it.
That is like a husband cheating on his wife but only cheating with supermodels.
HE IS STILL A CHEATER.
Even if all of his workmates are also cheaters, HE IS STILL A CHEATER.
I could personally care less about bike racing. Lance Armstrong attempted to pass himself off as something he wasn't.
Ok.. So he was the most sucessful cheater? Great. so he cheats better then anyone else. Well, maybe not because he GOT CAUGHT.
And as far as my "silly little car" is concerned, win or lose, at least I never cheated in a race.
Again, you have failed to contribute to what this post is actually about. I'm also guessing you have not had many successes in your life, being that successful is the only word you spelled wrong, not once, but twice.
That is the first sign that you have nothing left to say.
I served with honor in the United States Army (success)
I have been married to the same woman for 14 years. (success)
I have a low stress and good paying job (success)
I am raising two children who, so far, have managed to stay out of trouble (success)
So, tell me again about my lack of success?
From what I can gather, it is about people wanting to know what drugs Lance was taking so they to can take these same drugs. I really don't have a problem with that. As others have mentioned, I think ALL drugs should be legal. Lets thin out the herd a little bit and let people kill themselfs.
However; like it or not, this thread took the natural turn to Lance Armstrong being a cheater.0 -
FYI - OP and others might want to recognize a post-hijacking when they see one. We talk about what we want, tough guy.
Ahhh condescendingly calling me a tough guy. You're adorable little girl.
Wow, who pissed in your wheaties? Oh, wait... I guess I did.0 -
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.0 -
FYI - OP and others might want to recognize a post-hijacking when they see one. We talk about what we want, tough guy.
Ahhh condescendingly calling me a tough guy. You're adorable little girl.
Wow, who pissed in your wheaties? Oh, wait... I guess I did.
I'm actually loling here. You seem to be really upset about the guy and your comments were the rude ones. I couldn't care less about his personal life, his treatment of people, etc. And I couldn't care less about you or your opinion of me or anyone else. He and his doctors may very well have found the "magic pill" though and I'm curious. If that gets your panties in a wad then meh.
I guess at least you're no longer on my friend's list. That's progress!0 -
My brother in law is a competitive road racer and he doesn't dope.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
He is also a moron but, that's beside the point.
It appears that you are suggesting that unless you are willing to be a cheater, don't even play the game.
At what point did we decide that it was OK to cheat as long we we win?0 -
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
My simple logic of this.
His bike crossed the finish line first- he won. Had his bike been enhanced that took away the physical effort required to make it move, or it be discovered he shorted a course and skipped distance then I would consider him a cheater. To me his body did the work- so he "enhanced" it to make it work better, I don't care.
If the sport has rules that state PED's are not allowed it should be a test em' all policy, Otherwise hypocrisy rules the roost.0 -
My brother in law is a competitive road racer and he doesn't dope.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
He is also a moron but, that's beside the point.
It appears that you are suggesting that unless you are willing to be a cheater, don't even play the game.
At what point did we decide that it was OK to cheat as long we we win?
I'm suggesting that if you know the game is rigged but choose to play anyway, you don't get to whine about it after. Rules are whatever people make them to be. What is written in a book usually has nothing to do with how rules are enforced or what coaches, refs, officials and participants are actually expected to do. The rules of basketball don't allow ANY physical contact. Have you watched a basketball game?
I'm just trying to hand you a pair of reality goggles.0 -
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
My simple logic of this.
His bike crossed the finish line first- he won. Had his bike been enhanced that took away the physical effort required to make it move, or it be discovered he shorted a course and skipped distance then I would consider him a cheater. To me his body did the work- so he "enhanced" it to make it work better, I don't care.
If the sport has rules that state PED's are not allowed it should be a test em' all policy, Otherwise hypocrisy rules the roost.
Good point, although I realize it wasn't the point you intended to make.
If they had determined that he won by cheating by modifying his bike, and if I was interested in making my bike faster, I would want to know more about what he did. Sure, I may decide not to do it because it's unsafe, or perhaps it's too expensive, but I'd still like to know so I can decide for myself. It really doesn't matter whether or not he is a dbag for purposes of *this* discussion. Just because it's against the rules doesn't invalidate that there may be beneficial applications.0 -
And while I do appreaciate the goggles, the facts remain.
My brother in law is a competitive road racer and he doesn't dope.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You just listed off a bunch of suckers that should have gotten day jobs and spent that time with their families instead of training futilely for a race they never had a chance in. Everybody in that sport dopes. If you're not doping, that's great. Just go do something productive with your time if you're not willing to do what it takes to compete.
I'm not pro-drugs. I'm not anti-drugs. I'm pro reality. Cycling (and many other sports) without doping is a fairy tale.
He is also a moron but, that's beside the point.
It appears that you are suggesting that unless you are willing to be a cheater, don't even play the game.
At what point did we decide that it was OK to cheat as long we we win?
I'm suggesting that if you know the game is rigged but choose to play anyway, you don't get to whine about it after. Rules are whatever people make them to be. What is written in a book usually has nothing to do with how rules are enforced or what coaches, refs, officials and participants are actually expected to do. The rules of basketball don't allow ANY physical contact. Have you watched a basketball game?
I'm just trying to hand you a pair of reality goggles.
Lance Armstrong cheated.
Lance Armstrong got busted.
Lance Armstrong is now known as as cheater.
Yes, people will try to cheat and, sometimes, people will get busted cheating.
Yes, I understand your basketball analogy and I am glad you mentioned it.
They will rub, bump, and check but, every once in a while, they will get busted for it.
I think the big difference here is that when most of those players finally get caught sending someone across the court, they don't whine about it.
Lance denied it over and over.
Lance cheated plain and simple.0 -
He had cancer in his ball sac. It does not impress me that his lungs were still able to process oxygen. One day, I shoved a 7lb 6 oz baby out of my loins. It took 9 hours and 21 minutes, but my lungs processed oxygen the entire time. Impressed?
If giving birth is such an accomplishment, how come there's 7 Billion people on earth? Beyond Mundane.0 -
what he did was awful - because he let down those who admire him...but lets face facts
a. his human - his allowed to and will make mistakes
b. his charity does a LOT of good...and for me that charity work far out weighs what he chose to do with HIS body0 -
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You really just don't get it do you? We get that you're unimpressed. Its just that all those guys at 5th, 12th or 25th were also juicing, just probably not with whatever magic combination LA's doctors found. Go look it up. That's why a few of us are curious about the old dude that kept winning.0 -
what he did was awful - because he let down those who admire him...but lets face facts
a. his human - his allowed to and will make mistakes
b. his charity does a LOT of good...and for me that charity work far out weighs what he chose to do with HIS body
Well .. except for the fact that a lot of donations to his charity are now considered to have been obtained fraudulently - so what he did with his body could conceivably set the charity back hard. He does not operate in a vacuum
and .. 10? 15? years of dpoing .. not a mistake. it's a lifestyle.0 -
And thats fine that people would like to know what that amazing formula was that he was taking.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You really just don't get it do you? We get that you're unimpressed. Its just that all those guys at 5th, 12th or 25th were also juicing, just probably not with whatever magic combination LA's doctors found. Go look it up. That's why a few of us are curious about the old dude that kept winning.
I am sure it will be on the web by the weekend.
Now, you are saying that all of those other guys were also jucing.
Unfortunitally, most of the facts say that you are incorrect. You are making assumptions which are unverifiable.
There are several other racers who also got busted doping and they got punished.
There are also a number of racers who did NOT dope at all.
They have been tested and they have the reputation of being clean by both friends and the competition alike.
Sure, many people are more then willing to take all kinds of enhancements in order to gain "an edge" and I don't judge them one bit.
However; when that substance is banned by whatever sport they are competing in, then they are cheating plain and simple.
Even if "everyone else" is doing it, it is still cheating.
Lance Armstrong, for all of the good he has ever done, will now and forever be known as the guy who cheated.0 -
And thats fine that people would like to know what that amazing formula was that he was taking.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You really just don't get it do you? We get that you're unimpressed. Its just that all those guys at 5th, 12th or 25th were also juicing, just probably not with whatever magic combination LA's doctors found. Go look it up. That's why a few of us are curious about the old dude that kept winning.
I am sure it will be on the web by the weekend.
Now, you are saying that all of those other guys were also jucing.
Unfortunitally, most of the facts say that you are incorrect. You are making assumptions which are unverifiable.
There are several other racers who also got busted doping and they got punished.
There are also a number of racers who did NOT dope at all.
They have been tested and they have the reputation of being clean by both friends and the competition alike.
Sure, many people are more then willing to take all kinds of enhancements in order to gain "an edge" and I don't judge them one bit.
However; when that substance is banned by whatever sport they are competing in, then they are cheating plain and simple.
Even if "everyone else" is doing it, it is still cheating.
Lance Armstrong, for all of the good he has ever done, will now and forever be known as the guy who cheated.
Do you even watch cycling?0 -
My simple logic of this.
His bike crossed the finish line first- he won. Had his bike been enhanced that took away the physical effort required to make it move, or it be discovered he shorted a course and skipped distance then I would consider him a cheater. To me his body did the work- so he "enhanced" it to make it work better, I don't care.
If the sport has rules that state PED's are not allowed it should be a test em' all policy, Otherwise hypocrisy rules the roost.Good point, although I realize it wasn't the point you intended to make.
If they had determined that he won by cheating by modifying his bike, and if I was interested in making my bike faster, I would want to know more about what he did. Sure, I may decide not to do it because it's unsafe, or perhaps it's too expensive, but I'd still like to know so I can decide for myself. It really doesn't matter whether or not he is a dbag for purposes of *this* discussion. Just because it's against the rules doesn't invalidate that there may be beneficial applications.
Thanks for extending and clearing up my point and redirecting to the original discussion.
edited because I screwed up the quote brackets0 -
No I don't but, I do know who Lance Armstrong is. You don't need to be a race bike fan to know that.
And thats fine that people would like to know what that amazing formula was that he was taking.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You really just don't get it do you? We get that you're unimpressed. Its just that all those guys at 5th, 12th or 25th were also juicing, just probably not with whatever magic combination LA's doctors found. Go look it up. That's why a few of us are curious about the old dude that kept winning.
I am sure it will be on the web by the weekend.
Now, you are saying that all of those other guys were also jucing.
Unfortunitally, most of the facts say that you are incorrect. You are making assumptions which are unverifiable.
There are several other racers who also got busted doping and they got punished.
There are also a number of racers who did NOT dope at all.
They have been tested and they have the reputation of being clean by both friends and the competition alike.
Sure, many people are more then willing to take all kinds of enhancements in order to gain "an edge" and I don't judge them one bit.
However; when that substance is banned by whatever sport they are competing in, then they are cheating plain and simple.
Even if "everyone else" is doing it, it is still cheating.
Lance Armstrong, for all of the good he has ever done, will now and forever be known as the guy who cheated.
Do you even watch cycling?
Is there a point to your question?
Does the fact that I am not a bicycle fan make my opinions of a cheater somehow less valid?0 -
Yeah, I'm totally sorry I want the stuff that makes me a world class athlete at 40+ years old. What the hell was I thinking ?
That you want to get cancer, or liver damage, and die early? That's what I'm guessing. Or possibly go on a roid rage, piss off the wrong person, get killed? Cuz I know someone like that... he didn't die, but he got beat so badly he probably wished he had died... lost an eye, had an ear ripped off..... roid rage is awesome, eh?0 -
There are too many who say 'oh he did this or that'..for me, his biggest achievement was beating cancer. So many die of this awful disease that I would like to know what treatment he had for this. I don't know if he is smug, a liar, or whatever...many will have a view on that and that is fine. He still has to live his life, and there are a lot more worse people out there than him.0
-
No I don't but, I do know who Lance Armstrong is. You don't need to be a race bike fan to know that.
And thats fine that people would like to know what that amazing formula was that he was taking.
He was able to win seven titles by cheating.Armstrong has used lawsuits and threats and has ruined people financially for speaking the truth against him.
who could cheer for a guy like that?
using PEDs isnt why most people hate him.
Word!
Except the point of this thread has ZERO to do with *why*, or even *if*, people hate Lance Armstrong. Please, if you want to comment on him as a person, start a thread on it! I suspect the general consensus is correct, that he truly is a dbag of epic proportions.
However, this thread is about *what* he did and *how* he did it. A relatively old guy did things that allowed him to beat younger guys (many of whom were also doing similar things). Part of this is likely because of the things he took, part is because of the training he did, and part is because of who he is. The focus here is on the things he took (and, I think, the things he did, but I'm being lazy and not actually clicking back to OP).
Take a moment and forget all that you know/have heard about him as a person and instead consider what he was able to do. I think it's worth considering.
Forgive me for being unimpressed.
The REAL champ in those races are the guys who placed, 5th, 12th or 25th without cheating.
You really just don't get it do you? We get that you're unimpressed. Its just that all those guys at 5th, 12th or 25th were also juicing, just probably not with whatever magic combination LA's doctors found. Go look it up. That's why a few of us are curious about the old dude that kept winning.
I am sure it will be on the web by the weekend.
Now, you are saying that all of those other guys were also jucing.
Unfortunitally, most of the facts say that you are incorrect. You are making assumptions which are unverifiable.
There are several other racers who also got busted doping and they got punished.
There are also a number of racers who did NOT dope at all.
They have been tested and they have the reputation of being clean by both friends and the competition alike.
Sure, many people are more then willing to take all kinds of enhancements in order to gain "an edge" and I don't judge them one bit.
However; when that substance is banned by whatever sport they are competing in, then they are cheating plain and simple.
Even if "everyone else" is doing it, it is still cheating.
Lance Armstrong, for all of the good he has ever done, will now and forever be known as the guy who cheated.
Do you even watch cycling?
Is there a point to your question?
Does the fact that I am not a bicycle fan make my opinions of a cheater somehow less valid?
Yes. Your opinions of racing are absolutely irrelevant and your statement that I'm making claims that are unverifiable are incorrect. You may want to go look at the stats on cheating at the TdF. Its pretty bad to put it mildly. Yes, there are a few who have not tested positive, but you should know that LA wasn't caught until a full court press was put on him, and then only after several rounds and many years of that by multiple agencies. At some point the cheating becomes so bad and the enforcement so lax and after the fact, that one either plays the game and cheats, or just throws in the towel. I doubt you agree because you seem to live in a black and white world, but I think many of us see shades of grey.
Of course, LA's morality and the rest of this is still a complete side bar to the actual discussion that several of us were attempting to have here before people like yourself with moral chips on your shoulders side tracked it.
Frankly, I'm done communicating with you because you have nothing to add and have demonstrated a complete ignorance of the subject at hand. I always enjoy debate with the informed and logical but its never productive with the ignorant who refuse to educate themselves on the subject matter.0
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