Why the need to bring people down who are in shape?

K_Serz

Matt- apparently the success thread that I created DID have many negative remarks from people who were very cruel to some whose bodies were not up to par for their taste. The remarks were so hurtful that not only was the thread locked, but taken down completely until the mods could go thru and sanitize many of the comments.
I no longer have the fit, muscular body I had 20 years ago. Several years in a wheelchair, unable to walk and move like I had before, resulted in the pounds creeping up over the years.
I have worked very hard over the past 6 months to lose 38 pounds. I am still around 40 pounds to goal, no I'm no super model, and at almost 50, my body won't look fantastic even when I do reach goal. But do I deserve to have open criticism about my body, and insults and attacks because someone else thinks that I am not losing weight "the right way"?

For many of us on here, for various reasons, we are not able to to go to the gym every day and lift heavy to get a body that looks like Yo's. Or perhaps that is not our goal to even reach that point, even if we could.

But should her body be held up as the standard by which we should all judge ourselves?

I created a SUCCESS thread, asking for SUCCESS stories from people who need to eat at a lower calorie level, for whatever reason, so that they could share their story and experience with others who may be in a similar situation. You felt the need to come into that thread and post Yo's pictures, to show what a great body she has, due to her diet and exercise regimen, which CLEARLY does not fall into the parameters of the thread title.

WHY did you feel the need to do this?

Its just my opinion but..... I think what Matt is guilty of is posting to the wrong thread or being off topic. I do it all the time. Its just that in this instance instead of other feeling that it was just another off topic post and ignoring the poster (which believe me when I post off topic I am ignored all the time), others took offense to it and it went in the other direction. Thats my observation anyway.

BflSaberfan

People get insulted for things all the time. I would just take the good with bad and dont get yourself down about. Do you know how many dumb blonde jokes I've heard in my lifetime? Blah I dont let it get to me.

Do you sit down and help dozens of people get in shape whilst on the other hand get insulted for free? Not really the same thing.

It seems a majority want the help and a minority want to insult.

Actually, I do help dozens of people. I give advice all the time on these threads, whats worked for me and what hasn't. People disagree, I move on with my life. I dont take it personally. I cannot control the way people will respond to my pictures, threads or posts.

You said it yourself majority want the help and a minority want to insult - nothing you can do about it.

TrailRunner61

Being someone who has suffered from obsessive-compulsive habits, I wonder if body building is a sport, a self esteem issue, an obsession or just a hobby? I don't believe that being 'ripped' makes you any healthier. Not putting anyone down, because I've been there. Just curious.

Matt_Wild

Actually, I do help dozens of people. I give advice all the time on these threads, whats worked for me and what hasn't. People disagree, I move on with my life. I dont take it personally. I cannot control the way people will respond to my pictures, threads or posts.

You said it yourself majority want the help and a minority want to insult - nothing you can do about it.

It isn't limited to here. People message me here all day every day and then even hunt me down on facebook etc. Seriously it is a huge number. People who've added me today for example:

Matt_Wild is now friends with Admiral_Derp, AllyArbogast, gmove, Allie_71, sunnyoksuz and Debby0904

Matt_Wild is now friends with mikebowyer77 and HotMummyMission

Matt_Wild is now friends with sphira and lasulit

Matt_Wild is now friends with euphoric03

Matt_Wild is now friends with Cr01502, ilift2 and Iri_2

And for each one these, half at least message and ask a question, I try to answer most people.

In a year here i've posted 2200 times and you've been here since 2010 and posted 800. Its not the same thing.

I work for a living, gain nothing from helping and don't see why simply because I'm in shape and so is Yo we can be insulted by the way we look.

Matt_Wild

Being someone who has suffered from obsessive-compulsive habits, I wonder if body building is a sport, a self esteem issue, an obsession or just a hobby? I don't believe that being 'ripped' makes you any healthier. Not putting anyone down, because I've been there. Just curious.

What has that got to do with the price of bread?

saxmaniac

I agree and disagree:

1. In a *success* thread, shut the hell up if you don't have something nice to say. Come on, Mom raised you better than that.

2. On the other hand, admitting you don't find hardbodies attractive, or don't aspire to that look, is a quick way to get crucified here - even when it's aimed at nobody in particular.

There's bias in both directions, the way I see it. I think people on "both sides" have a little bit of work to do when it comes to acceptance. We could do a lot better.

TrailRunner61

Being someone who has suffered from obsessive-compulsive habits, I wonder if body building is a sport, a self esteem issue, an obsession or just a hobby? I don't believe that being 'ripped' makes you any healthier. Not putting anyone down, because I've been there. Just curious.

What has that got to do with the price of bread?

Do bodybuilders even eat bread? JK. Well, I used to bodybuild and I can't even say why I did it, except to say that I was obsessed with it. I didn't even have a picture in my mind of how I wanted to look, so I'm just curious as to why others do it. That's all.

Matt_Wild

I agree and disagree:

1. In a *success* thread, shut the hell up if you don't have something nice to say. Come on, Mom raised you better than that.

2. On the other hand, admitting you don't find hardbodies attractive, or don't aspire to that look, is a quick way to get crucified here - even when it's aimed at nobody in particular.

There's bias in both directions, the way I see it. I think people on "both sides" have a little bit of work to do when it comes to acceptance. We could do a lot better.

But why the need to say full stop?

I don't go into a fat persons thread and comment I don't find them attractive.

Why is it OK in reverse?

DebbieLyn63

For many of us on here, for various reasons, we are not able to to go to the gym every day and lift heavy to get a body that looks like Yo's. Or perhaps that is not our goal to even reach that point, even if we could.

Agreed, I've never said it is nor it should be everyone's goal, nor cup of tea.

But should her body be held up as the standard by which we should all judge ourselves?

Everyone should choose what they want, not anyone, including their partners preference. Just yours.

I created a SUCCESS thread, asking for SUCCESS stories from people who need to eat at a lower calorie level, for whatever reason, so that they could share their story and experience with others who may be in a similar situation. You felt the need to come into that thread and post Yo's pictures, to show what a great body she has, due to her diet and exercise regimen, which CLEARLY does not fall into the parameters of the thread title.

WHY did you feel the need to do this?

To say that one does not have to go to 1200 calories to lose weight. No more, no less. Sure it is not for everyone but when you have a blanket statement that having an extremely low number of calories for everyone is normal, is not. The images were used as proof of this.

NOWHERE in any of my posts, have I EVER made a blanket statement that having an extremely low number of calories for everyone is normal. NEVER. I have NEVER said that ANYONE else HAS to eat at 1200 calories to lose weight
On the contrary, many other people have made blanket statements that a 1200 calorie level is NEVER appropriate for ANYONE. The key is finding the right level calories for YOUR OWN body based on TDEE, weight, BF%, etc.

WHY is is ok for someone who is 80 pounds overweight and has a TDEE of 3000, to eat 2000 cals per day, (1000 calorie deficit) But someone who has the same amount of weight to lose, but a TDEE of only 1700, gets publicly insulted constantly for eating 1200 cals/day (500 calorie deficit)? The first example has a 33% cut from TDEE, the second is less than 30%)

My TDEE and necessary calorie level for losing weight at a healthy 1 pound per week, is NOT normal for EVERYONE, just as the calorie level and exercise regimen for your GF is NOT normal for EVERYONE.
But just as Yo's situation is normal for HER and for many people on here, so is mine normal for ME and for many others on here.

NEITHER of us should be criticized for our individual situation and choices.

Do you not see that by doing so, you have told the rest of us that were posting on the thread, that we clearly were not GOOD ENOUGH, and OUR SUCCESS didn't matter, because we clearly do not measure up to YOUR standard of beauty?

No, I did not say that in any way shape or form. You've plucked that out of the air. As above, 1200 calories is not a normal diet for everyone to go to. If you feel that posting that and saying you can eat more is something to do with beauty then you've got your own issues at hand there in terms of esteem.

You earlier asked this question-
"INFACT show me ONE exampe of anyone other than those in shape that gets this. ONE example.
Edited by Matt_Wild on Tue 03/12/13 07:19 AM "

MY THREAD was one such example! The insults about particular women's bodies, mine included, were apparently quite brutal.

I haven't seen it when there was there was the comments so I can't claim to know what was said. However any body shaming is out of order. I agree!

Why would ANYONE go on a SUCCESS thread and insult someone else's SUCCESS?

Agreed.

Immediately after this, you created the success thread of your own, with Yo's calorie level in the title. WHY was that necessary, if not simply to bash the women that cannot lose weight at that level?

Frankly? Just poor timing.

I do not condone ANYONE insulting someone's body. As you can read, I have clearly stated that I do not feel it is proper for someone to tell you that your gf is not attractive.

I''m glad.

But I also do not like what YOU did, in your part to turn MY SUCCESS thread into the hatefest that it became.

I can't be blamed for anything other than my post saying you can eat more and lose weight. No more.

I have never disrespected you or Yo. I have never gone into any of your threads about Yo's success, and said, or implied, that what you were doing was wrong.

I don't understand why you felt the need to do it in MY thread.

You haven't but I have not disrespected YOU. You are not your thread. You are not comments on thread about calorie amounts. All I had said is 1200 is not normal for every woman to diet on. A young 20 something who has a little weight to lose does not need to be on so little food. People forget that short term fat loss against long term bone/body health.

There is one thing talking about methods of weight loss, there is a complete different perspective when it turns to personal insults about how one looks, unless you claim discussing dieting methods is the same as insulting someone?

Respect goes both way. You can't expect to receive it, if you do not give it.

Well, I'd agreed, but I haven't been disrespectful.

I have clearly spelled out as well as I could, how you posting Yo's pictures and story, in my success thread, was inappropriate and disrespectful to me and the others who were sharing their stories. You admitted that the purpose of doing so, was to show us that we didn't need to eat so low to lose weight.
This would be equivalent to me going on to Yo's success thread and posting pics of a Super Model, and saying that girls didn't need to spend so much time in the gym to look good. IF I did that, you would certainly consider it an insult, would you not?

I went back and read thru all 4 pages of comments on your most recent success thread for Yo, and all I found was tons of people saying how fantastic she looked. The only post that came anywhere near being not 100% supportive was this one-

"she looks great in both pics!
But i would like to have her before body

That is more my personal definition of beauty, she was soft and womanly looking to me and that is more what i aspire too!

Amazing beautiful transformation either way! Definetly can see the hard work! "

I don't read that as insulting at all. As you have stated many times, it is ok if someone has a different goal in mind for themself, or a different opinion on what they find desirable. This poster stated that in an extremely respectful way, while still congratulating her on her amazing success.

You accused me earlier of having my own issues with self esteem. I think perhaps you do as well, if you are this sensitive about even the mildest difference of opinion.

You keep saying that we all have the right to choose our own goals, and have our own way to achieve those goals, but apparently you only mean that if our goals meet YOUR approval.

BflSaberfan

Actually, I do help dozens of people. I give advice all the time on these threads, whats worked for me and what hasn't. People disagree, I move on with my life. I dont take it personally. I cannot control the way people will respond to my pictures, threads or posts.

You said it yourself majority want the help and a minority want to insult - nothing you can do about it.

It isn't limited to here. People message me here all day every day and then even hunt me down on facebook etc. Seriously it is a huge number. People who've added me today for example:

Matt_Wild is now friends with Admiral_Derp, AllyArbogast, gmove, Allie_71, sunnyoksuz and Debby0904

Matt_Wild is now friends with mikebowyer77 and HotMummyMission

Matt_Wild is now friends with sphira and lasulit

Matt_Wild is now friends with euphoric03

Matt_Wild is now friends with Cr01502, ilift2 and Iri_2

And for each one these, half at least message and ask a question, I try to answer most people.

In a year here i've posted 2200 times and you've been here since 2010 and posted 800. Its not the same thing.

I work for a living, gain nothing from helping and don't see why simply because I'm in shape and so is Yo we can be insulted by the way we look.

What does the number of people you are helping matter?? I am merely trying to point out you cannot control how people respond to you - especially when you put yourself out there in the public you are bound to get some negative responses.

and what does the "I work for a living" comment mean? You think I don't?

BflSaberfan

I agree and disagree:

1. In a *success* thread, shut the hell up if you don't have something nice to say. Come on, Mom raised you better than that.

2. On the other hand, admitting you don't find hardbodies attractive, or don't aspire to that look, is a quick way to get crucified here - even when it's aimed at nobody in particular.

There's bias in both directions, the way I see it. I think people on "both sides" have a little bit of work to do when it comes to acceptance. We could do a lot better.

But why the need to say full stop?

I don't go into a fat persons thread and comment I don't find them attractive.

Why is it OK in reverse?

It is NOT okay. No one is saying it is.

saxmaniac

I don't go into a fat persons thread and comment I don't find them attractive.
Why is it OK in reverse?

It's not. See what I wrote above, #1

IpuffyheartHeelsinthegym

yep, I will never understand why people feel the need to be so angry all of the time that others have succeeded... I too don't understand why they can't leave it at "that's not MY desired body type" as opposed to saying how ugly or manly or unattractive or whatever it is. They don't even have to say they appreciate the work it took to get there, just "its not my cup of tea" and move along, if there needs to be a response at all.

Matt_Wild

For many of us on here, for various reasons, we are not able to to go to the gym every day and lift heavy to get a body that looks like Yo's. Or perhaps that is not our goal to even reach that point, even if we could.

Agreed, I've never said it is nor it should be everyone's goal, nor cup of tea.

But should her body be held up as the standard by which we should all judge ourselves?

Everyone should choose what they want, not anyone, including their partners preference. Just yours.

I created a SUCCESS thread, asking for SUCCESS stories from people who need to eat at a lower calorie level, for whatever reason, so that they could share their story and experience with others who may be in a similar situation. You felt the need to come into that thread and post Yo's pictures, to show what a great body she has, due to her diet and exercise regimen, which CLEARLY does not fall into the parameters of the thread title.

WHY did you feel the need to do this?

To say that one does not have to go to 1200 calories to lose weight. No more, no less. Sure it is not for everyone but when you have a blanket statement that having an extremely low number of calories for everyone is normal, is not. The images were used as proof of this.

NOWHERE in any of my posts, have I EVER made a blanket statement that having an extremely low number of calories for everyone is normal. NEVER. I have NEVER said that ANYONE else HAS to eat at 1200 calories to lose weight
On the contrary, many other people have made blanket statements that a 1200 calorie level is NEVER appropriate for ANYONE. The key is finding the right level calories for YOUR OWN body based on TDEE, weight, BF%, etc.

WHY is is ok for someone who is 80 pounds overweight and has a TDEE of 3000, to eat 2000 cals per day, (1000 calorie deficit) But someone who has the same amount of weight to lose, but a TDEE of only 1700, gets publicly insulted constantly for eating 1200 cals/day (500 calorie deficit)? The first example has a 33% cut from TDEE, the second is less than 30%)

My TDEE and necessary calorie level for losing weight at a healthy 1 pound per week, is NOT normal for EVERYONE, just as the calorie level and exercise regimen for your GF is NOT normal for EVERYONE.
But just as Yo's situation is normal for HER and for many people on here, so is mine normal for ME and for many others on here.

NEITHER of us should be criticized for our individual situation and choices.

Do you not see that by doing so, you have told the rest of us that were posting on the thread, that we clearly were not GOOD ENOUGH, and OUR SUCCESS didn't matter, because we clearly do not measure up to YOUR standard of beauty?

No, I did not say that in any way shape or form. You've plucked that out of the air. As above, 1200 calories is not a normal diet for everyone to go to. If you feel that posting that and saying you can eat more is something to do with beauty then you've got your own issues at hand there in terms of esteem.

You earlier asked this question-
"INFACT show me ONE exampe of anyone other than those in shape that gets this. ONE example.
Edited by Matt_Wild on Tue 03/12/13 07:19 AM "

MY THREAD was one such example! The insults about particular women's bodies, mine included, were apparently quite brutal.

I haven't seen it when there was there was the comments so I can't claim to know what was said. However any body shaming is out of order. I agree!

Why would ANYONE go on a SUCCESS thread and insult someone else's SUCCESS?

Agreed.

Immediately after this, you created the success thread of your own, with Yo's calorie level in the title. WHY was that necessary, if not simply to bash the women that cannot lose weight at that level?

Frankly? Just poor timing.

I do not condone ANYONE insulting someone's body. As you can read, I have clearly stated that I do not feel it is proper for someone to tell you that your gf is not attractive.

I''m glad.

But I also do not like what YOU did, in your part to turn MY SUCCESS thread into the hatefest that it became.

I can't be blamed for anything other than my post saying you can eat more and lose weight. No more.

I have never disrespected you or Yo. I have never gone into any of your threads about Yo's success, and said, or implied, that what you were doing was wrong.

I don't understand why you felt the need to do it in MY thread.

You haven't but I have not disrespected YOU. You are not your thread. You are not comments on thread about calorie amounts. All I had said is 1200 is not normal for every woman to diet on. A young 20 something who has a little weight to lose does not need to be on so little food. People forget that short term fat loss against long term bone/body health.

There is one thing talking about methods of weight loss, there is a complete different perspective when it turns to personal insults about how one looks, unless you claim discussing dieting methods is the same as insulting someone?

Respect goes both way. You can't expect to receive it, if you do not give it.

Well, I'd agreed, but I haven't been disrespectful.

I have clearly spelled out as well as I could, how you posting Yo's pictures and story, in my success thread, was inappropriate and disrespectful to me and the others who were sharing their stories. You admitted that the purpose of doing so, was to show us that we didn't need to eat so low to lose weight.
This would be equivalent to me going on to Yo's success thread and posting pics of a Super Model, and saying that girls didn't need to spend so much time in the gym to look good. IF I did that, you would certainly consider it an insult, would you not?

I went back and read thru all 4 pages of comments on your most recent success thread for Yo, and all I found was tons of people saying how fantastic she looked. The only post that came anywhere near being not 100% supportive was this one-

"she looks great in both pics!
But i would like to have her before body

That is more my personal definition of beauty, she was soft and womanly looking to me and that is more what i aspire too!

Amazing beautiful transformation either way! Definetly can see the hard work! "

I don't read that as insulting at all. As you have stated many times, it is ok if someone has a different goal in mind for themself, or a different opinion on what they find desirable. This poster stated that in an extremely respectful way, while still congratulating her on her amazing success.

You accused me earlier of having my own issues with self esteem. I think perhaps you do as well, if you are this sensitive about even the mildest difference of opinion.

You keep saying that we all have the right to choose our own goals, and have our own way to achieve those goals, but apparently you only mean that if our goals meet YOUR approval.

Lets agree to disagree. You are putting words in my mouth.

And if you think comparing someone disagreeing on a thread about the number of calories being taken in as the same as someones appearance, and saying it is disrespectful well in my eyes it is plainly daft.

You don't own the thread because you typed a name and wrote it down and no one else can post on your thread or disagree with your methodologies otherwise they are being disrespectful. Thats a difference of opinion on methods.

Slating someones appearance however is not allowed on here unless you are in shape. Heck I got a warning a few weeks ago because I posted something about someones appearance to get a point across (and then immediately after said I don't actually think this) yet if you are in shape you are fair game. This absolutely stinks.

Matt_Wild

I think its time Yo gives you your balls back..so you can post at least one post without having to mention her

Wow, what an insightful post. Well done.

Welcome to the forum.

SRH7

The simple fact tho, I don't ooze with confidence, I just try my best and try to help others.

Ha ha! Well, the vibe I get from you is confidence. If you're not confident then you should be - you've worked damn hard to get that body! I've read many of your posts and it really comes over how much you genuinely want to give out good advice. That, in the midst of so much misinformation, can only be a good thing

susanmc31

Matt,

This is really a sad situation and I understand what you are saying. Yo (and you) has and continues to do incredible work and people shouldn't be shaming her. I think Yo is beautiful and I wish you guys all the success in the world! You both seem very down to earth and super nice. I can appreciate the work you put in helping others in your spare time. I think I might just send along a friend request. :flowerforyou:

anneerick

Congrats on your success.

But the title of this topic should be "People on MFP are big meanies and everyone should only say nice positive things on the internet"
and then....the response would be....
"welcome to the internet... put on your big girl panties.....deal with it....blah blah blah"

Matt_Wild

The simple fact tho, I don't ooze with confidence, I just try my best and try to help others.

Ha ha! Well, the vibe I get from you is confidence. If you're not confident then you should be - you've worked damn hard to get that body! I've read many of your posts and it really comes over how much you genuinely want to give out good advice. That, in the midst of so much misinformation, can only be a good thing

Far from it mate, but thank you for saying.

Matt,

This is really a sad situation and I understand what you are saying. Yo (and you) has and continues to do incredible work and people shouldn't be shaming her. I think Yo is beautiful and I wish you guys all the success in the world! You both seem very down to earth and super nice. I can appreciate the work you put in helping others in your spare time. I think I might just send along a friend request. :flowerforyou:

Thank you! I don't proclaim to be anything - I'm just asking for people not to insult others. Apparently that's a bit much!

Congrats on your success.

But the title of this topic should be "People on MFP are big meanies and everyone should only say nice positive things on the internet"
and then....the response would be....
"welcome to the internet... put on your big girl panties.....deal with it....blah blah blah"

No, it should be evenly followed rule as per MFP rules that body shaming isn't allowed. Unless you are in shape and the mods then ignore it.

Heck even if you post something to prove a point the mods will warn you UNLESS its about someone in shape. I got a warning for this. You either have a rule in place or you don't.

MFP mods don't follow their own rules and I notice they are pretty damn quiet on this thread.

DebbieLyn63

Ok, I will agree to disagree. But I have one last question for you.

If I went onto your success story about Yo and posted the following-

"It is unhealthy for women to be at this low of a body fat %. You do not have to train like this to be healthy. There are better ways to do it." And I posted 3 large pics of my friend who has an awesome body, but has a softer, less muscular physique.

Would you consider that to be an appropriate comment to leave on a SUCCESS thread?

Just to note, that I WOULD NOT post this comment on your thread. I am only using that as an example.