Children throwing tantrums in stores! What??

Re: college degree.

My BIL/SIL both had graduate degrees and used their hands and belts to "discipline" their kids. They both grew up in homes where that was common. That was their definition of "discipline."

We don't spank/hit/smack. I predict our child will not either.

You repeat what you live with in most instances. It feels comfortable and familiar. To my in-laws it felt "right" cause that is the way they had seen discipline invoked.

Can you grow up to be a productive member of society with spanking in your childhood...sure. But, to me the greatest arguement against spanking is that you raise a child to grow up to believe that hitting someone a fraction of their size over whom they have complete control is okay.

Most people handle this wrong. I've had 3 kids. None of them ever threw tantrums in public. Children do this because they know they can without any reprecussions. They are in a safe zone in public. My kids never had a safe zone. LOL. Swift direct punishment right on the spot always worked. I didn't pull them into private, because that actually encourages bad behavior in public. I don't give 2 sh!ts about what someone is going to think, say, or call, I smack them in the butt, and tell them firmly they better hehave. It always works because the kids didn't ever have a safe zone in shich to act out like that.

My kids are not perfect. But, as far as that goes, I just never had any issue with it. When I see it, 1) I usually think the parents are doing it wrong. but, in the moment, the worst thing a parent can do is let the kid win, so they have to finish the shopping and just go through it. 2) Some people just have THAT kid, the one that even the best kid raiser in the world cannot control or figure out, the irrational one that just does not respond to normal techniques of training and positive reinforcement. You know, that's the kids that you could beat into a pulp, and they'd still do it. There's just nothing you can do. I've had friends who have one of those. It's just insane! So, sometimes, it's just taht situation. Doesn't matter. It's not parenting. It's just a fu*ked up @$$hole kid. LOL

My 2 and a half year old throws little fits every now and then but she hasn't thrown an all out tantrum. I try to make sure she's well rested, fed and happy when we go shopping but she is sometimes just grumpy. I correct her behavior when she's being a booger and I reward her when she's being well behaved. We don't go out to eat though unless it's a special occasion. She is a social butterfly and wants to bounce around saying hello to all the other diners. She gets sad and frustrated when I don't let her.

Also, I hope I'm not alone in my curiosity about what school she went to and what she majored in, if neither spelling nor rational debate seem to be in her wheelhouse?

Well then I guess you will continue in that curiosity, as I am no longer inclined to participate in your tit for tat. I merely, was starting my comment off as I had seen a previous poster as well... only I qualified it a bit more narrowly. But instead of disagreeing or picking at my argument, you (and others) choose to pick at a typo and my personal qualifier... which makes you look just as condescending and judgemental (not to mention petty) as you say I look.

Okay, since you seemed to be touting your education, I thought you might want to elaborate a bit more, but I suppose not.

Perhaps if you are nice, I MIGHT PM it to you... seeing as I don't put personal information like that on chat boards... never have, never will. And again, I was replying to the comment that stated that a PP has never known a college educated person to spank... HENCE, the qualifier... but I guess you would have known that, seeing as you are obviously so much smarter than I am.

Oh and I have last-worditis... so it may be a few replies before I do actually stop the back and forth.

When I see kids act up in stores, it's just a firm reminder of why I don't ever want to have them.

I have a home daycare and just today managed to take 3 kids with me to teh store, ages just 3, 3 1/2, and almost 4, with NO ISSUES! I told them all before hand what I expected, as I always did with my own daughter, and as I did with the children I was a nanny to for over 8 years. I told them if everyone was well behaved they would get a small treat at the end to eat in the car. When asked by one of the 3 kids if F*** misbehaved would they still get something. My answe was no they wouldn't it was their jobs to behave and to be sure to encourage their friends to behave. We were in the store for about 30 minutes as I found the things on my list. THey stayed rith with me, "oohed" and "ahhed" over toys, candy, cards, wrapping paper,...Never once touched a thing, jsut sued their eyes as I had told them to keep their hands off and just use their eyes to see things. They were a pleasure t have in their!
I ahve been complimented several times on my daycare kdis behavior as well as my daughters beahvior when she was younger and out in public. The answer is quite simple, state your expectaions, let them now the consequences should they not follow your expectaions, and, here is the key, FOLLOW THROUGH!!!!! If that means leaving items ina basket at the store and going outside to the car, then do it. If it means pulling your car over ebcause the kids are misbehaving in teh back seat, then do it. Not even a need to yell or hit. Just follow through and remain calm.
Guess what, KIDS LEARN HOW TO ACT IN PUBLIC!!!

When I see kids act up in stores, it's just a firm reminder of why I don't ever want to have them.

Ha, ha. Well, that's the bad side. There's an awesome sweet side too. Once you see that, you'll know why people want to have them. Plus, it's nice having someone do all the house cleaning, and chores. And, it's nice to know that someone will take care of you when you can no longer take care of yourself.

When I see kids act up in stores, it's just a firm reminder of why I don't ever want to have them.

Thats kind of harsh. Condemming the human race for something so trivial. I would assume you would not want kids because of the pooping, puking, sleepless nights, money they cost, and being the killer of all personal freedom. But The smile they give me somehow makes it worth it.

Judge me all you want. When your kids are adults, we can compare notes. I have seen the results of raising my child. You haven't seen your results yet.

Wow, where to begin?

First, life is a journey, not a destination. The quality of life for a child, that thing called a childhood, is just as important as how well they turn out as an adult.

Second, there are many factors which lead to the culmination of a person. Experience, genetics, opportunity, love, to name a few. How a child turns out is not the result of one sole factor - in your implied claim, spanking. It's a mix of many things. Perhaps your child turned out great despite being spanked. Perhaps your child could have been so much more without spanking. You'll never know. Or maybe you aren't objective, or don't know the entirety of her existence, or what is to yet to come.

I'm surprised that you would try to turn it into a contest, if I'm honest.

She's 18. So much more than what?

And, seriously, she had a great childhood. Could it have been better? Whose couldn't have been? But the quality of her childhood has nothing to do with whether she was spanked. It didn't happen often and it was only when necessary and ONLY with my hand. No welts. No bruises. No bleeding.

She had everything she needed. many things she wanted, great friends, lots of play time. She had it a lot better than a lot of kids.

She wasn't afraid of me or any other adult in her life. She learned her limits and learned to live within them when she was old enough.

If your children have half the childhood she (or I!) had, they will be very lucky children.

When I see kids act up in stores, it's just a firm reminder of why I don't ever want to have them.

Thats kind of harsh. Condemming the human race for something so trivial. I would assume you would not want kids because of the pooping, puking, sleepless nights, money they cost, and being the killer of all personal freedom. But The smile they give me somehow makes it worth it.

I wouldn't equate "I don't want to deal with tantrums" with "condemning the human race"

Children throw tantrums, even the "best ones" Don't be so judgmental.

Most people handle this wrong. I've had 3 kids. None of them ever threw tantrums in public. Children do this because they know they can without any reprecussions.

OR because they get overstimulated by all the lights, commotion and so on. Some of it is just luck. My daughter has mostly outgrown tantrums in the store and she just turned 2. I have a friend who spanks her son plenty and he still has meltdowns in stores at age 12. He probably gets spanked everyday. But, he's somewhat on the autism spectrum and gets overstimulated. I've spanked my kid once for climbing on the kitchen table and she's just been outgrowing tantrums in the store with very little intervention from me. My kid isn't better in the store because I'm a better parent, she's better in the store because I got lucky enough to get a kid who outgrows it faster.

Kids screaming in restaurants actually kind of bugs me, most people go out to eat to enjoy a nice meal without hearing screaming children, if you can't keep them under control don't go out or get a sitter.

THIS!!!!! I do NOT want to hear YOUR screaming misbehaving child when I am out on a date with my husband. Don't you want to spend time alone with YOUR husband? Get a sitter! Have a date night. Dinner for two is cheaper than dinner for two plus kiddos. And they won't eat all their food anyway and it is wasteful. Please, PLEASE leave your kid with a sitter!

I am fine with kids in restaurants if they are well behaved. But the minute a kid stands up in THEIR booth and leans over the back of the booth and into my personal space and the parent does nothing about it... oh. It's on. I sat in a restaurant a week ago and watched two little girls bounce in their booth and lean over the back into another diner's personal space. The other diner had to get up, ask the parents to please stop their children from leaning over and bouncing around the booth. And the parent did nothing. I felt so horrible for the diner and the parents comment? "Kids will be kids. If you don't like it, go somewhere else." (I'm an eavesdropper) Absolutely frustrating.

Theres a few restaurants who've plainly said in a notice on their entrance door something along the lines of "customers with crying babies will be asked to leave". The restaurants have a huge list of "offended" people who try to tell them off but at the same time, they have lots of business because people know that you can eat peacefully there.

Once again, I feel for the parents, I really do. However, you do NOT have a right to ruin my time just because your child decided to be disruptive...

If there is not a notice on the door stating otherwise, my children have as much of a right to be there as anyone else does. I guarantee we will spend more money there than most of the other patrons will. And I cannot tell you how many times my meals have been ruined by loud, distasteful ADULTS. Have you ever tried asking someone to put away their cell phone or to tone down their language or to maybe find a different subject matter to discuss over dinner? It's just as annoying to dine with obnoxious adults as it is disruptive children. I have more tolerance for children, who are still learning. Adults *should know better*. When I find myself in that situation, I have two choices--deal with it or move on. I would say the same for people who are bothered by my children.

Children do have a right to be there. They also have the right to act like humans instead of monkeys, stay in your booth, not be screaming and throwing food the entire time, etc. No one said children aren't welcome, but restaurants are restaurants, not playgrounds so if you bring your children to a restaurant they shouldn't be acting like it's a playground.

I completely agree.

I have never once told someone to quiet their child but I have given them the look. And as for the conversations are you only offended by them because you have small children around who might hear what they're saying? If that's the case then here's an idea: Don't take your small children to that restaurant any more! Find a place that's more child friendly like Friendly's or Chuck-E-Cheese. I'm sorry but I have never had a meal ruined by someone having a loud and "distasteful" conversation. Loud? Sure but when I go out with a group of people we tend to get loud as well and believe me I have had many conversations that I am positive some people would deem to be "distasteful" but never once has anyone come up to me and asked me to be quiet. And why is it your business to comment on the subject matter any way and who are you to ask someone to talk about a different subject matter?

There's a huge difference between a child who is screaming, throwing food and banging their feet on the back of the booth or jumping around in the booth and leaning over my shoulder (yes, this has happened before!) and the parent just sits there and smiles and laughs. How is that respectful of ME and the time that I'm spending there? Why is it ok for your child to scream, throw food and stare at me over the seat of the booth and ruin my dinner and my time but it's not ok for people to talk loudly or *gasp* have "distasteful" conversations?

I personally dislike the use of objects to hit children. If I were to take off my belt and whack an adult, I'd be charged with assault with a weapon. I see no difference in hitting a small child with an object, who is less able to defend themselves, both physically and legally.

Beautifully made point.