Another Thought About Milk

In the hundred years since 1900, the human population in the US has doubled, while meat consumption has quintupled (five times). Increases in diseases like heart attack, cancer, etc have risen at the same rate.

In the hundred years since 1900, the human population in the US has doubled, while meat consumption has quintupled (five times). Increases in diseases like heart attack, cancer, etc have risen at the same rate.

Causation or correlation?

It's milk, meat and corn causing that?

Or more likely, the increase in sedentary jobs and the easily accessible fast food.

^ this is where i'd put my money.

also i don't know if i believe the statistic that we consume 5x the amount of meat now per capita than we did 100 years ago (i am skeptical of that claim unless it comes from some legitimate non-partisan source).

finally, we have to understand that our advances in medicine and life expectancy likely have a large impact on the incidence of cancer and other diseases that typically manifest later in life. in 1900, the average life expectancy in the USA was 46 for men and 48 for women. by 1998, that had increased to 74 for men and nearly 80 for women.

absolutely plays a role, but studies have shown (look at the TED talks I listed) that when you take someone with heart disease who is in line for surgery, and has eaten a meat-heavy diet, and treat them with a plant based diet, it can not only slow and stop, but REVERSE the damage and the blockage in their arteries.

yes we're living longer, which causes more disease, but those diseases are often times preventable when certain nutrition is applied.

Are their diet's just meat heavy or are they eating a poor diet over all? Protein is very important in a good diet and the main source of that is meat. Do they start by being over weight and lose weight eating mostly plants? Do they exercise at all?

I can't believe that it's just eating lots of meat that cause the heart disease, but a poor lifestyle over all.

there are actually plenty of protein sources besides meat and soy even. I'm in the process of vegan-izing my diet and I'm going to do as little soy as possible as well.

and absolutely lifestyle plays a part in getting to that point of discussing surgery - but when nothing else is changed, and just diet is modified, the results are incredibly impressive, and surgery can - at the minimum - be delayed, and in some cases it became unnecessary entirely.

all i've ever said is that this kind of thing is worth doing the research about and WORTH learning about, and it shouldn't just be dismissed as broscience because it's anything BUT.

I'm not dismissing other sources of protein.

I agree, but you can't make "eating meat" = "heart disease" Each individual case would be determined by lifestyle. I would think someone who is sedentary and very over weight with heart disease has a much better chance at getting healthier with proper diet and exercise then someone who is lighter and fairly active.

I think that with things like milk, dairy, fast food, sweets ect, to have one or some every day is no more harmful to your body then having a drink in a bar where people are smoking, breating in fumes from painting your nails, windex, or cleaners like lysol, and walking down the street in a factory heavy city.

There are many things that affect health and I know there's a "minimize the risks" mindset, but I enjoy food. I'll never completely get over the compulsions that made me fat, so I'm going to enjoy as much as I can while getting to a healthier weight. When I get there, I might reevaluate what's important, but for now it's about how I can stick with the plan without feeling deprived.

The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.

Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.

Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.

disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.

I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.

The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.

Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.

Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.

disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.

I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.

Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.

you've literally posted all the people who rail against me religiously. haha

i think we simply believe two ideologically opposite things when it comes to health and nutrition. I understand how they have much more credibility than me, but that actually doesn't inherently guarantee that they're correct - it's just more likely.

unfortunately, like I said, I don't think the scientific and medical communities at large have any incentive to do studies on these things that aren't funded by the industries that want the studies - which thus creates a conflict of interest. The government has a huge stake in the dairy, corn and meat industries doing well because they're a driving force in our economy, health be damned.

CoachReddy, I have nothing against you personally and I certainly don't seek to rail against anyone here. However, if you (or anyone else) posts misleading or false information about biology or physiology that I know to be incorrect I will make an effort to refute it, for the benefit of other posters who may not be trained (as scientists are) to make immediate sense of studies and their write-ups.

As for our incentives - science is funded in many ways and in some cases, companies and lobbies do sponsor their own research. However, most scientists are funded by impartial (and extremely competitive) research grants from government agencies of science and health. And studies that are sponsored by lobbies, pharmaceutical companies or otherwise are EXTREMELY closely scrutinised for bias. It's not a perfect system, but there is no conspiracy in scientific research.

There are a number of scientists like me on these boards (several of us are named by sunsnstatheart), and we are generally quite reasonable in the way we present our opinions. People who are not so circumspect (as you tend not to be, as I have noted above), are often the focus of our efforts to clarify what is being said.

But it's not personal. I have no time for vendettas.

and as I said, you do, and SHOULD have more credibility than me, and I respect the amount of work you've put into your profession and admire the fact that you're in here trying to help people with your knowledge - but there are plenty of scientists who would also agree with the positions I've suggested as well. Not all scientists agree, thus not all scientists are inherently correct by result of them simply being a scientist.

Don't even try to school me.

I've been singing for half my life, and have been behind the scenes of the music industry for at least 6 years.

Aside from opera singers (and even then, Sarah Brightman smokes like a chimney), most professional singers don't do diddly squat besides suck on a lemon before a performance.

You don't even know who you're trying to school. Just stop while you're ahead.

And you don't know who you're trying to school, but I agree let's quit fighting because it's silly.

I have been singing my whole life and I am a classically trained singer with a degree in vocal performance. I have been in many musicals and operas.
No, you should not down a pint of milk an hour before you go onstage. However, drinking milk is not going to hurt your voice as long as you aren't lactose intolerant and don't drink it within a reasonable amount of time to singing.
Having said this, Sarah Brightman is possible the worst cited example of what a singer should be doing with their voice. She sounds like she smokes like a chimney. Just saying.

absolutely plays a role, but studies have shown (look at the TED talks I listed) that when you take someone with heart disease who is in line for surgery, and has eaten a meat-heavy diet, and treat them with a plant based diet, it can not only slow and stop, but REVERSE the damage and the blockage in their arteries.

yes we're living longer, which causes more disease, but those diseases are often times preventable when certain nutrition is applied.

absolutely plays a role, but studies have shown (look at the TED talks I listed) that when you take someone with heart disease who is in line for surgery, and has eaten a meat-heavy diet, and treat them with a plant based diet, it can not only slow and stop, but REVERSE the damage and the blockage in their arteries.

yes we're living longer, which causes more disease, but those diseases are often times preventable when certain nutrition is applied.

You are cherry picking research to support your own prejudices! A few posts back you claimed
"unfortunately, like I said, I don't think the scientific and medical communities at large have any incentive to do studies on these things that aren't funded by the industries that want the studies - which thus creates a conflict of interest. The government has a huge stake in the dairy, corn and meat industries doing well because they're a driving force in our economy, health be damned."

Paleo, vegan or any diet that involves removing foods is really contributing to food neuroticism and that avoidance behavior can become acute and dysfunctional. One of the big problems is they can't help themselves but to look at biased literature or tag themselfs with like minded organizations or people, it's not a good place to be. in my opinion of course.

The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.

Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.

Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.

disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.

I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.

Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.

totally. we pay the most $$ on health care and live shorter lives than 27 other countries.

something's gotta give.

Vilifying food groups or singular macros, pick one it doesn't matter, is one of the things that has to stop. The alternatives for those foods have created a multibillion dollar diet industry and this thread is the prefect example of that.

why is that industry worse than the dairy industry that has no regard for public health or environmental protection - just profits?

The average life expectancy in a white male (guessing obviously) is 80 years, so... I'd say it likely had nothing to do with drinking milk.

Interesting. He also ate eggs, drank diet soda, enjoyed beer and smoked and people crucify these things because they're "bad for you." Yet, our life expectancy is the highest ever.

Life expectancy is rising because we as humans are no longer toiling sun up to sun down, doing hard labor (in general). Taking it easier reduces the strain on our bodies, therefore adding to the natural life expectancy.

disagree entirely. I'm going to preface this with: this is not meant to be a racist statement - but Hispanics actually have the highest life expectancy in the United States. They also (on the whole - again - not being stereotypical, just a fact) tend to work more hours in more manual labor-type jobs on average than other demographics.

I'd argue that toiling sun up to sun down actually helps you live longer. More exercise, more calorie burn, etc.

Actually the next generation of American born will be the first time that life expectancy goes the other way, apparently, and with the state of their health, that would be a given, I would think. I believe American health has gone from the single digit to somewhere in the 40's when compared to other countries.......it's disintegrating basically.

totally. we pay the most $$ on health care and live shorter lives than 27 other countries.

something's gotta give.

Vilifying food groups or singular macros, pick one it doesn't matter, is one of the things that has to stop. The alternatives for those foods have created a multibillion dollar diet industry and this thread is the prefect example of that.

why is that industry worse than the dairy industry that has no regard for public health or environmental protection - just profits?