Convince me Pop Tarts & ice cream are bad.
Replies
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Well if you had only one of the two you might have remained closer to your caloric goal for the day, but having both pushed you over by about 440 cal. Multiply that by 7 days and you'll be GAINING a pound per week instead of losing it. JUST by cutting out your ice cream and pop tart, you could be under your caloric goal and possibly be losing weight. (That is assuming your set goal is 500 cal below your BMI, including exercise.)
Otherwise, if you want to not feel deprived, I would keep only one of the two or alternate with ice cream one day and a pop tart the next.0 -
My diet choices have come under a lot of scrutiny lately. Mostly my Pop tart and ice cream consumption. Please, convince me that I'm doing it wrong. Most of the people that have a problem with my diet say my food is nutrient deficient. In fact, I believe it's the unfounded fear of sugar that most people are taking exception.
My diary is open and I'm fairly consistent. Today is a good example of my typical day. The last few weeks I have been a bit more liberal with my diet as I'm coming up to a goal change at the end of the month. Go beyond that and you'll see major consistency (to the point of OCD almost). I advocate allowing yourself 20-25% of your daily caloric intake to consist of anything you want if you're able to hit your macro/micro nutrient needs & goals. For me, based on my intake goals, that's 800 -1000 calories, which I primarily have been allocating to sugar.
I would love to see how my surgary food is nutrient deficient as well, as I'm quite often told. Please show me in detail. Set me right. I log everything and their nutritional values are easily found online. For instance there's 14 g of sugar in one 200 cal Pop Tart. That leaves 144 calories of "other stuff". Is this other stuff air or is it fats/carbs/protein (even 10% of the RDA of 7 micro-nutrients) that are required nutrients?
I would prefer non-anecdotal evidence. As far as "empty calories" go, that's going to be a tough sell for me. A calorie is a unit of measurement and in order to have any caloric value there must be a certain amount of macro (even micro) nutrients present, we'll say for the sake of discussion, per gram of weight.
Info: My daily calorie goal is 4,000. I'm a 33 year old, healthy male, @ 5'10" and about 190 lbs right now. I do cardiovascular exercise 3 days a week and lift heavy (for me) 3 days per week. My "rest" day typically involves 20 minutes of cardio & activity with my toddler.
Resting Heart Rate: 58
Total Cholesterol (as of a couple weeks ago): 93
BP: 110/70
If you'd like to see any other health markers, just ask.
My typical ice cream, per serving (I tend to eat 4):
Calories 110
Calories from Fat 25
Total Fat 3(g)
Saturated Fat 2(g)
Trans Fat 0(g)
Cholesterol 5(mg)
Sodium 55(mg)
Total Carbohydrates 18(g)
Dietary Fiber 0(g)
Sugars 13(g)
Protein 3(g)
Calcium 6% DV
Vitamin A 4% DV
Typical Pop Tart (I tend to eat 2 at a time like most people):
Calories 200
Calories from Fat 45
Total Fat 5.0 g
Saturated Fat 1.5 g
Polyunsaturated Fat 2 g
Monounsaturated Fat 1 g
Sodium 170 mg
Total Carbohydrate 35 g
Dietary Fiber 1 g
Sugars 14 g
Protein 2.0 g
Vitamin A 151 %
Iron 2 %
Niacin 2 %
Folic Acid 40 %
Edited for typos.
Jerry Seinfeld declared Pop Tarts the most perfect food, on a talk show. He said it's the perfect amount, "not one, not three, but two' and there are two slots in a toaster so there you go...:)0 -
Nothing is inherently bad for you. It's about portion control and looking at things from a global perspective. He is eating what he wants and everything else is fairly healthy. He is also working out a ton and burning a lot of calories every week.0
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Pop tarts are bad because they taste horrible.
Ice cream I have no beef with.
Yup, that0 -
We had a mouse in our pantry and there were teeth marks in my s'mores poptarts. Needless to say, that mouse was dealt with immediately.0
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There is nothing wrong with any of it. I live on it. The only thing you have to watch for is sodium and blood pressure. Which is why they make blood pressure meds. Inhibit your kidney from retaining water and keep on eating all the pop tarts in the world. Yes, serious.
Does your doc know that you eat that much sugar? Eating a lot of sugar may cause high serum uric acid which is likely a causative agent in not only hypertension, but renal disease and failure. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23439375
You might want to have your uric acid level checked. Google "hyperuricemia and hypertension". Here's an article to start with: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23089272
From the article: "Although more research is clearly necessary, the available data suggest that uric acid is likely causative in some cases of early onset hypertension." If you have hypertension at your age, I wouldn't be so confident that B.P. meds will solve all problems. By the time that B.P. is sodium dependent, there may have already been significant renal damage.
Already answered this the first time you asked. As of two weeks ago 3.2 mg/dL. Low end of average. Thanks.
Actually, this post was directed at trojanBB who is apparently already struggling with B.P. issues. Are you, by any chance, on Allopurinol? That wouldn't be at all surprising in someone who was once a very big boy. Are you on any medications? Hope you don't mind my asking but I think it is pertinent to the discussion of how eating junk food in any quantity can be quite unhealthy.
No meds at all. I don't even take aspirin. I do drink about 1000 mg of caffeine a day on top of all this. I'm sure that will bug you too.
Doesn't "bug" me at all. I just think you are a walking medical miracle and that you should volunteer to be studied by obesity researchers (there's a lot of that going on--check the nearest med school). I will say that it is a good thing that you drink a lot of coffee, as that is associated with lower serum uric acid levels. The likely mechanism is that one of the metabolites of coffee is 1-methyl xanthine and it competitively inhibits the enzyme that produces uric acid (xanthine oxidase). Stay healthy.
No miracle here. Just proper macro consumption, nutritional needs met, proper amounts of aerobic & anarobic exercise, brought together with mathimatical equations and a set of controls.
what's your timetable? when did you start eating this way (2,000 cal of processed stuff)? how long's it been going?
Here's an answer you'll probably love. My whole life probably, by your standards.
i don't mean "by my standards"
give us your story man. what did you do to LOSE the weight? right now you're looking to build muscle obviously - bulk up. How many calories did you eat to drop the 158? When did you start? and when did you switch to your current 4,000?
This too requires a proper keyboard, not an iPhone. I'll respond, not dodging this in the least.
As promised.
I lost the weight through simple caloric deficit to be honest. I dropped 140 lbs in 7 months on 1300 - 1400 calories a day, primarily made up of egg beaters, cafe steamers, oat meal, chicken sausages, pop chips, Special K, & sugar free pudding. During this time I lost a lot of strength too as I only did cardio. For instance my bench went from 315 to 170 (just as an example)
After that I adjusted up, slowly, for about 5 months until I hit the one year mark and found myself still loosing weight @ 3300 daily. Incorporated some of my old lifting routine (I used to lift heavy before I got heavy and even when heavy).
So, since last April I've been between 3300 - 4000 daily. For the last 6 months I've been at 28,000 weekly, the 6 before that about 25,000 weekly.0 -
You understand the concept. Apply it to food. Many people do. Food is not the meaning of life or the only component of a good life. It is one of many parts of a happy, rich, and fulfilling life. The points of this thread are that, 1- all other things being equal, life is better with good foods than it is without them, and B- including them is not mutually exclusive to healthy eating.
I'm 43 years old, not a baby, and derive happiness from eating. Every day. So that statement is easily falsified by observed reality.Only babies derive happiness from what they put in their mouths. Hedonism is always a mistake. Therein does not true joy lie.
Enjoying eating is not "hedonism." There is an entire spectrum, much of which is healthy moderation. You are presenting a false dichotomy that the only options are hedonism or misery.
I suppose sex for pleasure is also "a mistake."
Not within healthy bounds. It is a part of a healthy and fulfilling marital relationship. But unbounded sexuality has produced a great deal of human tragedy. However, that is to derail the subject at hand--sorry OP.
I think you and I probably have a different definition of happiness. I could NEVER imagine seeking it in food.
IOW getting one's required micronutrients and eating "junk" food like ice cream and pop tarts can actually occur simultaneously. It is not a matter of choosing between "eating healthy" or "eating for pleasure."
QFT0 -
He posted it, it is everyone's business now.:laugh:0
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You understand the concept. Apply it to food. Many people do. Food is not the meaning of life or the only component of a good life. It is one of many parts of a happy, rich, and fulfilling life. The points of this thread are that, 1- all other things being equal, life is better with good foods than it is without them, and B- including them is not mutually exclusive to healthy eating.
I'm 43 years old, not a baby, and derive happiness from eating. Every day. So that statement is easily falsified by observed reality.Only babies derive happiness from what they put in their mouths. Hedonism is always a mistake. Therein does not true joy lie.
Enjoying eating is not "hedonism." There is an entire spectrum, much of which is healthy moderation. You are presenting a false dichotomy that the only options are hedonism or misery.
I suppose sex for pleasure is also "a mistake."
Not within healthy bounds. It is a part of a healthy and fulfilling marital relationship. But unbounded sexuality has produced a great deal of human tragedy. However, that is to derail the subject at hand--sorry OP.
I think you and I probably have a different definition of happiness. I could NEVER imagine seeking it in food.
IOW getting one's required micronutrients and eating "junk" food like ice cream and pop tarts can actually occur simultaneously. It is not a matter of choosing between "eating healthy" or "eating for pleasure."
QFT
...keeeep... going....0 -
You understand the concept. Apply it to food. Many people do. Food is not the meaning of life or the only component of a good life. It is one of many parts of a happy, rich, and fulfilling life. The points of this thread are that, 1- all other things being equal, life is better with good foods than it is without them, and B- including them is not mutually exclusive to healthy eating.
I'm 43 years old, not a baby, and derive happiness from eating. Every day. So that statement is easily falsified by observed reality.Only babies derive happiness from what they put in their mouths. Hedonism is always a mistake. Therein does not true joy lie.
Enjoying eating is not "hedonism." There is an entire spectrum, much of which is healthy moderation. You are presenting a false dichotomy that the only options are hedonism or misery.
I suppose sex for pleasure is also "a mistake."
Not within healthy bounds. It is a part of a healthy and fulfilling marital relationship. But unbounded sexuality has produced a great deal of human tragedy. However, that is to derail the subject at hand--sorry OP.
I think you and I probably have a different definition of happiness. I could NEVER imagine seeking it in food.
IOW getting one's required micronutrients and eating "junk" food like ice cream and pop tarts can actually occur simultaneously. It is not a matter of choosing between "eating healthy" or "eating for pleasure."
QFT
...keeeep... going....
:laugh:0 -
C'mon guys, you all know that ingesting more glucose than you can burn will result in it being stored as fat. If you're kicking tail on the workouts everyday, then power to ya, but might I suggest a multi-vitamin or something? All those little micronutrients might not make much of a difference now, but lacking them has been linked to all kinds of nasty stuff later-on (Alzheimers, Depression etc.) This is, of course, hard to prove on a case-by-case basis, and you wouldn't likely have much of a direct effect now (I definitely have had "sugar crashes", but that's me), but long-term health should be taken into consideration. For years athletes have employed flat Coca Cola and any number of "bad" foods as the quick jolt they need before or during competitions, and neither ice cream nor pop tarts will kill you, it's just a lot of calories and (for me) not very filling. Someone who is struggling with fat loss would likely want to avoid them, because they can make keeping on target for calories difficult, but if you're where you need to be, rock on.0
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Commenting because I want to see this thread's continuation. OP has a take on a diet that I think makes sense. Will I a 5' 2" woman ever be able to eat anywhere near his totals? NO. But that's because my exercise level wouldn't support that. His concept of 20-25% of your intake being foods for satiating craving rather than meeting macro needs makes sense. It seems perfectly sustainable to me.
That's not 2 packs of Pop-Tarts and a buncha ice cream for me (though that would be nice ), it's 4 starburst and a good dark beer one day. Another it's a serving of chocolove chocolate and a homemade iced coffee. His concept isn't EAT ALL THE POPTARTS. It's eat what you want (in relationship your limit) so that you don't go off the deep end.
Seems like a discretionary budget to me, the money you buy that hat that you really don't need with, that awesome new pair of kicks... whatever gets you jonsing without filing for bankruptcy.
that all makes sense until you look at his actual diary that includes 2,200 calories today of pop tarts, ice cream, waffles and cornbread from a mix totalling 177 grams of sugar and 57% of his daily caloric intake.
that's the only point i've ever been trying to make. I agree that you should eat a certain percentage of foods you love every day if that's what you want to do. 20%... whatever, go for it. But 57%? Is there anyone in here who would offer to try magerum's diet and turn over 50% of your calories into pop tarts, ice cream and waffles?
Is he a nice guy? Yeah actually I think so! Is he supportive of other peoples' journeys? Absolutely! But I personally don't think it's fair to the people on these boards who are working incredibly hard to fine tune their diets and lose weight eating healthy foods for you to go around posting thread after thread about pop tarts and ice cream, knowing FULL WELL that most people can't do what you do and succeed.
If what you actually talked about (and practiced) was eating "junk" foods as 20% of your diet, I wouldn't fight you, but it's the hypocrisy and the food porn that's just plain ridiculous and insulting to people who don't have it quite so easy as you do and have to WORK INCREDIBLY HARD to lose weight.
sorry for the rant... hope I didn't offend.
See this is where we diverge again.
I hit my micro nutrient goals quite easily by nautre of my diet, which you seem to ignore. By the time I've finished my third meal I've eaten 2 - 2.5 lbs of vegetables, 1.5 - 2 lbs of lean meat (primarily chicken breast), almonds, cottage cheese, whey, a mutli-vitamin, & fish oil supplement. As well as 16+ glasses of water.
I still contend that I get plenty of nutrional value from my 4th meal foods, but for the sake of arguement lets say I don't, I only get calories. Well that's what I need calories. I've already hit several hundred percent of my needs through the rest of my diet. You then bring up my sugar intake, which for the sake of of discussion, I'll assume it's "junk" too. Well that's an average of 200 g a day of sugar (quite a bit from my vegetables, but we'll ignore that). That's 800 calories of "junk", which is well within 20 - 25% of my diet, based on 4000 calories a day.0 -
Commenting because I want to see this thread's continuation. OP has a take on a diet that I think makes sense. Will I a 5' 2" woman ever be able to eat anywhere near his totals? NO. But that's because my exercise level wouldn't support that. His concept of 20-25% of your intake being foods for satiating craving rather than meeting macro needs makes sense. It seems perfectly sustainable to me.
That's not 2 packs of Pop-Tarts and a buncha ice cream for me (though that would be nice ), it's 4 starburst and a good dark beer one day. Another it's a serving of chocolove chocolate and a homemade iced coffee. His concept isn't EAT ALL THE POPTARTS. It's eat what you want (in relationship your limit) so that you don't go off the deep end.
Seems like a discretionary budget to me, the money you buy that hat that you really don't need with, that awesome new pair of kicks... whatever gets you jonsing without filing for bankruptcy.
that all makes sense until you look at his actual diary that includes 2,200 calories today of pop tarts, ice cream, waffles and cornbread from a mix totalling 177 grams of sugar and 57% of his daily caloric intake.
that's the only point i've ever been trying to make. I agree that you should eat a certain percentage of foods you love every day if that's what you want to do. 20%... whatever, go for it. But 57%? Is there anyone in here who would offer to try magerum's diet and turn over 50% of your calories into pop tarts, ice cream and waffles?
Is he a nice guy? Yeah actually I think so! Is he supportive of other peoples' journeys? Absolutely! But I personally don't think it's fair to the people on these boards who are working incredibly hard to fine tune their diets and lose weight eating healthy foods for you to go around posting thread after thread about pop tarts and ice cream, knowing FULL WELL that most people can't do what you do and succeed.
If what you actually talked about (and practiced) was eating "junk" foods as 20% of your diet, I wouldn't fight you, but it's the hypocrisy and the food porn that's just plain ridiculous and insulting to people who don't have it quite so easy as you do and have to WORK INCREDIBLY HARD to lose weight.
sorry for the rant... hope I didn't offend.
See this is where we diverge again.
I hit my micro nutrient goals quite easily by nautre of my diet, which you seem to ignore. By the time I've finished my third meal I've eaten 2 - 2.5 lbs of vegetables, 1.5 - 2 lbs of lean meat (primarily chicken breast), almonds, cottage cheese, whey, a mutli-vitamin, & fish oil supplement. As well as 16+ glasses of water.
I still contend that I get plenty of nutrional value from my 4th meal foods, but for the sake of arguement lets say I don't, I only get calories. Well that's what I need calories. I've already hit several hundred percent of my needs through the rest of my diet. You then bring up my sugar intake, which for the sake of of discussion, I'll assume it's "junk" too. Well that's an average of 200 g a day of sugar (quite a bit from my vegetables, but we'll ignore that). That's 800 calories of "junk", which is well within 20 - 25% of my diet, based on 4000 calories a day.
STOP POSTING AND JUST KEEP READING!
hahaha0 -
It seems like, and Mag can correct me if he likes, I am adjusting my calories down to meet my goals (by limiting my sweet to a lower percentage), and he is adjusting his up to meet his goals.
Quite right. I've already hit my goals(macro and micro) so I fill it in with deliciousness. I do still pay attention to certain macro nutrient percentages though while doing this.0 -
I personally think your calorie intake given your life style and your fitness level is fine, I eat almost 3000 a day and i am a 41 year old 133 pound female. Now as far as your diet is concerned the only issue I can see being a possible problem down the ROAD is a sugar issue. Back in my early 30's I could knock bag a BIG tootsie roll daily and a dark chocolate bar for fun. Daily and this did NOT affect my weight, I am OCD and when you follow a routine most of the time everything falls into place. My weight wasn't a factor in why I took majority of the sugary sweets out of my diet. I started a new job 5 years ago, very physical.... now already doing physcial activity I found myself needing some extra energy. Long story short.... seemed like every time I had sugar, within an hour I was exhausted. I was having sugar spikes ~ NOW YOUR CASE is a little different in that your ice cream actually isn't that bad for you, in all other areas (proteins, carbs exc.) frankly if you were to compare your poptarts to a chocolate bar you are still ahead of the game. If I was YOU..... listen to your body. If you want the sugar and have no medical NEED to NOT eat it......then EAT it! You live once, live for yourself. I try to live a clean healthy life style but that is what I WANT. If you want your poptarts....and by all your info you are healthy then eat the damn things!!!!
... yeah... this just changed my mind.
I eat "clean" because I WANT to and I really enjoy it. I think that's what a lot of folks throwing out the orthorexic term don't understand. But that said, obviously the same things don't make everyone happy, and... yeah as long as you're really truly listening to your body and are honest with yourself and your health markers show no risks... I guess it makes sense to do whatever it is that makes you happy and helps you reach your personal goals. If you would hate eating the way I do, then it makes no sense to do it.
So... im still going to advocate for whole foods and the cleaning up of diets - because for the majority it's still medically necessitated - but in your case magerum, do your thang. You know what you're doing. And if it reached a point where your health markers DID start to drop, it's not like you don't have the knowledge and tools to fix it.
But damn it Pop Tarts are STILL empty calories! I have to hold on to something.
I'm only on page 12, a couple more to catch up on, but I am truely speechless by this. :drinker:
:flowerforyou:
I never said don't eat "clean", I only ever wanted to point out you can do it anyway you want. Figure it out, watch your health and enjoy. Now you get it! Hey, hate on the pop tarts all you want, free country!0 -
I personally think your calorie intake given your life style and your fitness level is fine, I eat almost 3000 a day and i am a 41 year old 133 pound female. Now as far as your diet is concerned the only issue I can see being a possible problem down the ROAD is a sugar issue. Back in my early 30's I could knock bag a BIG tootsie roll daily and a dark chocolate bar for fun. Daily and this did NOT affect my weight, I am OCD and when you follow a routine most of the time everything falls into place. My weight wasn't a factor in why I took majority of the sugary sweets out of my diet. I started a new job 5 years ago, very physical.... now already doing physcial activity I found myself needing some extra energy. Long story short.... seemed like every time I had sugar, within an hour I was exhausted. I was having sugar spikes ~ NOW YOUR CASE is a little different in that your ice cream actually isn't that bad for you, in all other areas (proteins, carbs exc.) frankly if you were to compare your poptarts to a chocolate bar you are still ahead of the game. If I was YOU..... listen to your body. If you want the sugar and have no medical NEED to NOT eat it......then EAT it! You live once, live for yourself. I try to live a clean healthy life style but that is what I WANT. If you want your poptarts....and by all your info you are healthy then eat the damn things!!!!
... yeah... this just changed my mind.
I eat "clean" because I WANT to and I really enjoy it. I think that's what a lot of folks throwing out the orthorexic term don't understand. But that said, obviously the same things don't make everyone happy, and... yeah as long as you're really truly listening to your body and are honest with yourself and your health markers show no risks... I guess it makes sense to do whatever it is that makes you happy and helps you reach your personal goals. If you would hate eating the way I do, then it makes no sense to do it.
So... im still going to advocate for whole foods and the cleaning up of diets - because for the majority it's still medically necessitated - but in your case magerum, do your thang. You know what you're doing. And if it reached a point where your health markers DID start to drop, it's not like you don't have the knowledge and tools to fix it.
But damn it Pop Tarts are STILL empty calories! I have to hold on to something.
I'm only on page 12, a couple more to catch up on, but I am truely speechless by this. :drinker: :flowerforyou:
I never said don't eat "clean", I only ever wanted to point out you can do it anyway you want. Figure it out, watch your health and enjoy. Now you get it! Hey, hate on the pop tarts all you want, free country!
don't worry though, we can still fight about whether pop tarts have any nutritional value. 0 -
I personally think your calorie intake given your life style and your fitness level is fine, I eat almost 3000 a day and i am a 41 year old 133 pound female. Now as far as your diet is concerned the only issue I can see being a possible problem down the ROAD is a sugar issue. Back in my early 30's I could knock bag a BIG tootsie roll daily and a dark chocolate bar for fun. Daily and this did NOT affect my weight, I am OCD and when you follow a routine most of the time everything falls into place. My weight wasn't a factor in why I took majority of the sugary sweets out of my diet. I started a new job 5 years ago, very physical.... now already doing physcial activity I found myself needing some extra energy. Long story short.... seemed like every time I had sugar, within an hour I was exhausted. I was having sugar spikes ~ NOW YOUR CASE is a little different in that your ice cream actually isn't that bad for you, in all other areas (proteins, carbs exc.) frankly if you were to compare your poptarts to a chocolate bar you are still ahead of the game. If I was YOU..... listen to your body. If you want the sugar and have no medical NEED to NOT eat it......then EAT it! You live once, live for yourself. I try to live a clean healthy life style but that is what I WANT. If you want your poptarts....and by all your info you are healthy then eat the damn things!!!!
... yeah... this just changed my mind.
I eat "clean" because I WANT to and I really enjoy it. I think that's what a lot of folks throwing out the orthorexic term don't understand. But that said, obviously the same things don't make everyone happy, and... yeah as long as you're really truly listening to your body and are honest with yourself and your health markers show no risks... I guess it makes sense to do whatever it is that makes you happy and helps you reach your personal goals. If you would hate eating the way I do, then it makes no sense to do it.
So... im still going to advocate for whole foods and the cleaning up of diets - because for the majority it's still medically necessitated - but in your case magerum, do your thang. You know what you're doing. And if it reached a point where your health markers DID start to drop, it's not like you don't have the knowledge and tools to fix it.
But damn it Pop Tarts are STILL empty calories! I have to hold on to something.
I'm only on page 12, a couple more to catch up on, but I am truely speechless by this. :drinker: :flowerforyou:
I never said don't eat "clean", I only ever wanted to point out you can do it anyway you want. Figure it out, watch your health and enjoy. Now you get it! Hey, hate on the pop tarts all you want, free country!0 -
I personally think your calorie intake given your life style and your fitness level is fine, I eat almost 3000 a day and i am a 41 year old 133 pound female. Now as far as your diet is concerned the only issue I can see being a possible problem down the ROAD is a sugar issue. Back in my early 30's I could knock bag a BIG tootsie roll daily and a dark chocolate bar for fun. Daily and this did NOT affect my weight, I am OCD and when you follow a routine most of the time everything falls into place. My weight wasn't a factor in why I took majority of the sugary sweets out of my diet. I started a new job 5 years ago, very physical.... now already doing physcial activity I found myself needing some extra energy. Long story short.... seemed like every time I had sugar, within an hour I was exhausted. I was having sugar spikes ~ NOW YOUR CASE is a little different in that your ice cream actually isn't that bad for you, in all other areas (proteins, carbs exc.) frankly if you were to compare your poptarts to a chocolate bar you are still ahead of the game. If I was YOU..... listen to your body. If you want the sugar and have no medical NEED to NOT eat it......then EAT it! You live once, live for yourself. I try to live a clean healthy life style but that is what I WANT. If you want your poptarts....and by all your info you are healthy then eat the damn things!!!!
... yeah... this just changed my mind.
I eat "clean" because I WANT to and I really enjoy it. I think that's what a lot of folks throwing out the orthorexic term don't understand. But that said, obviously the same things don't make everyone happy, and... yeah as long as you're really truly listening to your body and are honest with yourself and your health markers show no risks... I guess it makes sense to do whatever it is that makes you happy and helps you reach your personal goals. If you would hate eating the way I do, then it makes no sense to do it.
So... im still going to advocate for whole foods and the cleaning up of diets - because for the majority it's still medically necessitated - but in your case magerum, do your thang. You know what you're doing. And if it reached a point where your health markers DID start to drop, it's not like you don't have the knowledge and tools to fix it.
But damn it Pop Tarts are STILL empty calories! I have to hold on to something.
Credit where credit is due. This is the most sensible well thought out post I think I've ever seen you post. Truth be told, other than wine or beer with dinner, my personal diet is probably closer to yours than magerum's. I am 5'9", 200, about 22 or 23% body fat, down from about 35% 2 years ago, 61 about to turn 62 with a TDEE of around 2500. I eat about 90% of calories from whole, nutrient dense foods. If I save a little at the end of the day, it's to have wine with dinner. Hey I'm Italian. It's a thing. I don't sweets very often. When I do, ice cream is my choice. Or maybe some dark chocolate.
I eat the way I do this because that's what I like within the bounds of my eating plan. My health markers are great and there are very few people my age that I've seen whose 1RM for squats and deadlifts are over 300 lbs. I also bike 15 to 20 miles at a clip (hybrid not road bike) and run an occasional 5K in the warm weather.
If you like eating very "clean" that good on you. It's the judgmental peachiness of many of your post that draws such fire and calls of orthorexia. The conclusion you came to above is pretty much what magerum's original point was. Obviously, if someone has poor health markers and is very overweight, the amount of indulgences they include would have to be modified, but reasonable indulgences as part of a healthy overall eating plan can substantially help long term compliance.
QFT
Truth be told, I've only recently added an additional 500 or so calories a day of sweets. Just to meet caloric needs.0 -
I haven't read through the 14 pages of this thread but is OP really eating 4k cals everyday with 300+ g of protein, 100+g of fat, and a lot of carbs each day and thinking it's good? All that'll do is give you fat on top of fat
Seems legit.0 -
Looking at your 4000 (which is very high if your not training for a marathon) a day caloric intake yes, there is room for pop tarts.. In the overall picture you are setting poor example for your toddler. What you may be doing is setting yourself up for diabetes in about 10 years.. Indulging in high glycemic index foods make you insulin dependent ...
Completely false, thanks though.0 -
How on earth do you eat 18oz of chicken nearly daily for dinner? That seems impossible.
Challenge accepted!0 -
How on earth do you eat 18oz of chicken nearly daily for dinner? That seems impossible.
Challenge accepted!
That's my normal dinner...and it's cooked weight on top of that. On Sundays I'm normally between 24 - 30 oz0 -
I will not. You got it right bro! hahaha I too enjoy these things and have done so while losing nearly as much weight as yourself...unfortunately without exercise they caught back up to me, so I gotta work my way back down! lol
i think this is my point in a nutshell. if you eat primarily whole foods, what you experienced is much, MUCH less likely to happen. eating the types of foods I eat and in the quantities I eat them, even if I stop exercising I won't gain weight, or not significantly.
Okay, quick question. You are only 24 years old, you have "0" pounds to lose. I am curious. Were you ever overweight? If so, how overweight were you? Do you have pictures of this? Have you ever had issues with food at all? Sometimes, if we have not walked in a person's shoes, we don't understand everything they deal with. It's easy to tell people how to eat or how not to eat, but if you have never lived this life - you really have no true idea what it takes to succeed. Not critizing you at all, just curious.
False argument. I'm 31 years old. I have had 2 kids. I was 106# when I got pregnant with my first. I was 167# when I went in for delivery. I was #160 when I walked out. Lost 30# through eating clean and group fitness. I was 130# when I got pregnant with my son. Again in the high 160s when I went in for delivery. I got stuck at 148# for a year after. I struggled with breastfeeding and a whole boat load of things and didn't feed my body correctly. I was well within my calorie range but because I was tired and dealing with two kids, all I ate was Weight Watchers frozen meals. Didn't work. At all. In 2010 I signed up for a 5k and started back eating clean. By May I was down to 118#. I have fluctuated often due to my diet.
I'm not saying that my anecdotal evidence applies to all. As someone who has had to work very hard to maintain my figure (I never got back down to my pre-pregnancy weight and probably never will) I definitely understand the struggles. AND I AGREE WITH COACHREDDY... You don't need to have struggled with your weight to have insight on proper nutrition.0 -
I personally think your calorie intake given your life style and your fitness level is fine, I eat almost 3000 a day and i am a 41 year old 133 pound female. Now as far as your diet is concerned the only issue I can see being a possible problem down the ROAD is a sugar issue. Back in my early 30's I could knock bag a BIG tootsie roll daily and a dark chocolate bar for fun. Daily and this did NOT affect my weight, I am OCD and when you follow a routine most of the time everything falls into place. My weight wasn't a factor in why I took majority of the sugary sweets out of my diet. I started a new job 5 years ago, very physical.... now already doing physcial activity I found myself needing some extra energy. Long story short.... seemed like every time I had sugar, within an hour I was exhausted. I was having sugar spikes ~ NOW YOUR CASE is a little different in that your ice cream actually isn't that bad for you, in all other areas (proteins, carbs exc.) frankly if you were to compare your poptarts to a chocolate bar you are still ahead of the game. If I was YOU..... listen to your body. If you want the sugar and have no medical NEED to NOT eat it......then EAT it! You live once, live for yourself. I try to live a clean healthy life style but that is what I WANT. If you want your poptarts....and by all your info you are healthy then eat the damn things!!!!
... yeah... this just changed my mind.
I eat "clean" because I WANT to and I really enjoy it. I think that's what a lot of folks throwing out the orthorexic term don't understand. But that said, obviously the same things don't make everyone happy, and... yeah as long as you're really truly listening to your body and are honest with yourself and your health markers show no risks... I guess it makes sense to do whatever it is that makes you happy and helps you reach your personal goals. If you would hate eating the way I do, then it makes no sense to do it.
So... im still going to advocate for whole foods and the cleaning up of diets - because for the majority it's still medically necessitated - but in your case magerum, do your thang. You know what you're doing. And if it reached a point where your health markers DID start to drop, it's not like you don't have the knowledge and tools to fix it.
But damn it Pop Tarts are STILL empty calories! I have to hold on to something.
I'm only on page 12, a couple more to catch up on, but I am truely speechless by this. :drinker: :flowerforyou:
I never said don't eat "clean", I only ever wanted to point out you can do it anyway you want. Figure it out, watch your health and enjoy. Now you get it! Hey, hate on the pop tarts all you want, free country!
the only really important point that i want everyone to understand is this...
paleo or primal or clean are all subsets of IIFYM.
if you choose to restrict your diet, then that's your business. but nobody needs to do that if they don't want to do that.
IIFYM will lead you to weight loss, fitness, and proper nutrition. if that's your goal, then you can do it following IIFYM.
if you have ethical concerns (vegetarians, vegans) and want to exclude certain foods, more power to you.
if you have some other issue that leads you to want to exclude certain foods, more power to you.
but all of these dietary subsets that prohibit intake of certain foods still work by the IIFYM concept. if they violate that concept, they will not work... either your fitness or weight loss or nutrition will suffer - by definition.
i personally don't believe in food restrictions of any kind. that's the point i argue, when i argue. some people do. i just want them to rephrase their arguments so as not to confuse the uninformed. if you choose to eat clean because it makes you happier, i will never argue that point. however, if you argue that everyone needs to eat clean or they will never be as healthy as you, then i will argue that point.
at the end of the day, the goal is to make weight loss and fitness and nutrition as SIMPLE as possible for everyone to understand and follow. i don't see how you can get more simple than IIFYM.
- meet your daily calorie goal
- meet your daily fat goal
- meet your daily protein goal
- meet your daily carbs (fiber) goal
- take a multivitamin and/or vary your diet enough to meet your micronutrient needs
add these:
- do cardio for cardiovascular fitness
- lift weights for muscular growth and bone health
- get sufficient rest
and that's a SIMPLE formula that will work for almost anybody. the only exceptions might be those with certain medical issues.0 -
Working with 4K calories has its benefits! Jealous. Of course, I don't routinely burn 1,300 in a workout.
I can't eat Pop Tarts due to a self-imposed dietary restriction (vegetarian), but I can't say the same for (most) ice cream.
OM NOM NOM
(If it works for you, and you're paying attention to what and how much you're eating, then go for it!)0 -
I will not. You got it right bro! hahaha I too enjoy these things and have done so while losing nearly as much weight as yourself...unfortunately without exercise they caught back up to me, so I gotta work my way back down! lol
i think this is my point in a nutshell. if you eat primarily whole foods, what you experienced is much, MUCH less likely to happen. eating the types of foods I eat and in the quantities I eat them, even if I stop exercising I won't gain weight, or not significantly.
Okay, quick question. You are only 24 years old, you have "0" pounds to lose. I am curious. Were you ever overweight? If so, how overweight were you? Do you have pictures of this? Have you ever had issues with food at all? Sometimes, if we have not walked in a person's shoes, we don't understand everything they deal with. It's easy to tell people how to eat or how not to eat, but if you have never lived this life - you really have no true idea what it takes to succeed. Not critizing you at all, just curious.
False argument. I'm 31 years old. I have had 2 kids. I was 106# when I got pregnant with my first. I was 167# when I went in for delivery. I was #160 when I walked out. Lost 30# through eating clean and group fitness. I was 130# when I got pregnant with my son. Again in the high 160s when I went in for delivery. I got stuck at 148# for a year after. I struggled with breastfeeding and a whole boat load of things and didn't feed my body correctly. I was well within my calorie range but because I was tired and dealing with two kids, all I ate was Weight Watchers frozen meals. Didn't work. At all. In 2010 I signed up for a 5k and started back eating clean. By May I was down to 118#. I have fluctuated often due to my diet.
I'm not saying that my anecdotal evidence applies to all. As someone who has had to work very hard to maintain my figure (I never got back down to my pre-pregnancy weight and probably never will) I definitely understand the struggles. AND I AGREE WITH COACHREDDY... You don't need to have struggled with your weight to have insight on proper nutrition.
Did you read the additional discussion on this point? You may want to if not. I don't know if you intend this or not but your tone comes across as very argumentative. That can be a little offputting. Just a FYI.0 -
I will not. You got it right bro! hahaha I too enjoy these things and have done so while losing nearly as much weight as yourself...unfortunately without exercise they caught back up to me, so I gotta work my way back down! lol
i think this is my point in a nutshell. if you eat primarily whole foods, what you experienced is much, MUCH less likely to happen. eating the types of foods I eat and in the quantities I eat them, even if I stop exercising I won't gain weight, or not significantly.
Okay, quick question. You are only 24 years old, you have "0" pounds to lose. I am curious. Were you ever overweight? If so, how overweight were you? Do you have pictures of this? Have you ever had issues with food at all? Sometimes, if we have not walked in a person's shoes, we don't understand everything they deal with. It's easy to tell people how to eat or how not to eat, but if you have never lived this life - you really have no true idea what it takes to succeed. Not critizing you at all, just curious.
False argument. I'm 31 years old. I have had 2 kids. I was 106# when I got pregnant with my first. I was 167# when I went in for delivery. I was #160 when I walked out. Lost 30# through eating clean and group fitness. I was 130# when I got pregnant with my son. Again in the high 160s when I went in for delivery. I got stuck at 148# for a year after. I struggled with breastfeeding and a whole boat load of things and didn't feed my body correctly. I was well within my calorie range but because I was tired and dealing with two kids, all I ate was Weight Watchers frozen meals. Didn't work. At all. In 2010 I signed up for a 5k and started back eating clean. By May I was down to 118#. I have fluctuated often due to my diet.
I'm not saying that my anecdotal evidence applies to all. As someone who has had to work very hard to maintain my figure (I never got back down to my pre-pregnancy weight and probably never will) I definitely understand the struggles. AND I AGREE WITH COACHREDDY... You don't need to have struggled with your weight to have insight on proper nutrition.
and I don't think that was totally Beachlovers point, she simple stated for her that being overweight (20-30 lbs. is one thing but being 70. 100. 200+) it would be alot easier to take advice from someone who as been in the same shoes.. I started out at 560 lbs, and my first stop after I put the loaded hand gun down was therapy and the guy sitting across the table from me was 160 lbs. soaking wet and was a 5 minute a mile marathon runner. All I could think about was how can you possibly know what I am going through let alone offer anything that would help me begin to lose this weight... I was going 3 times a week and it took me 2-3 months before I could wrap my head around the fact he possible could help me... The whole point atleast in my eyes and I think I can speak for Beach is the process could have been I whole lot easier in the beginning, had I been sitting across the table from someone that walked I mile in my shoes.... Until you have actiually lost 300+ lbs. no one can possible know what that is like unless you have been there... 4 years ago I couldn't walk, I could barely stand for 30 seconds at a time. Now with bad knees and all I just came home from putting in 2 miles in the pool at the Y.... I think that is more the point, it isn't so much that you can't give good advice, it is just more of a I would have preferred to hear it from someone that has been there... No offense...... and @CoachReddy Thanks!!! I came home and got caught up on the thread and literally fell out of my chair and hit my head on my laptop cart!! (kidding) but I was surprised...... lol0 -
I will not. You got it right bro! hahaha I too enjoy these things and have done so while losing nearly as much weight as yourself...unfortunately without exercise they caught back up to me, so I gotta work my way back down! lol
i think this is my point in a nutshell. if you eat primarily whole foods, what you experienced is much, MUCH less likely to happen. eating the types of foods I eat and in the quantities I eat them, even if I stop exercising I won't gain weight, or not significantly.
Okay, quick question. You are only 24 years old, you have "0" pounds to lose. I am curious. Were you ever overweight? If so, how overweight were you? Do you have pictures of this? Have you ever had issues with food at all? Sometimes, if we have not walked in a person's shoes, we don't understand everything they deal with. It's easy to tell people how to eat or how not to eat, but if you have never lived this life - you really have no true idea what it takes to succeed. Not critizing you at all, just curious.
False argument. I'm 31 years old. I have had 2 kids. I was 106# when I got pregnant with my first. I was 167# when I went in for delivery. I was #160 when I walked out. Lost 30# through eating clean and group fitness. I was 130# when I got pregnant with my son. Again in the high 160s when I went in for delivery. I got stuck at 148# for a year after. I struggled with breastfeeding and a whole boat load of things and didn't feed my body correctly. I was well within my calorie range but because I was tired and dealing with two kids, all I ate was Weight Watchers frozen meals. Didn't work. At all. In 2010 I signed up for a 5k and started back eating clean. By May I was down to 118#. I have fluctuated often due to my diet.
I'm not saying that my anecdotal evidence applies to all. As someone who has had to work very hard to maintain my figure (I never got back down to my pre-pregnancy weight and probably never will) I definitely understand the struggles. AND I AGREE WITH COACHREDDY... You don't need to have struggled with your weight to have insight on proper nutrition.
and I don't think that was totally Beachlovers point, she simple stated for her that being overweight (20-30 lbs. is one thing but being 70. 100. 200+) it would be alot easier to take advice from someone who as been in the same shoes.. I started out at 560 lbs, and my first stop after I put the loaded hand gun down was therapy and the guy sitting across the table from me was 160 lbs. soaking wet and was a 5 minute a mile marathon runner. All I could think about was how can you possibly know what I am going through let alone offer anything that would help me begin to lose this weight... I was going 3 times a week and it took me 2-3 months before I could wrap my head around the fact he possible could help me... The whole point atleast in my eyes and I think I can speak for Beach is the process could have been I whole lot easier in the beginning, had I been sitting across the table from someone that walked I mile in my shoes.... Until you have actiually lost 300+ lbs. no one can possible know what that is like unless you have been there... 4 years ago I couldn't walk, I could barely stand for 30 seconds at a time. Now with bad knees and all I just came home from putting in 2 miles in the pool at the Y.... I think that is more the point, it isn't so much that you can't give good advice, it is just more of a I would have preferred to hear it from someone that has been there... No offense...... and @CoachReddy Thanks!!! I came home and got caught up on the thread and literally fell out of my chair and hit my head on my laptop cart!! (kidding) but I was surprised...... lol
hahaha hope your head's alright.
at the end of the day you have to WANT to do what you're doing. I never set out to "eat clean" or whatever, it just sort of... evolved... and once I was doing it I realized I really liked doing it. I can spout on all day (what? i'd never do that) about eating this that and the other thing, but everyone's got different goals, reasons for doing this, and if eating perfectly "clean" isn't something that gets you excited and invested in your "journey" for lack of a better word, then **** man, don't do it. Not that I eat perfectly clean either, but I'm sure you get my point.
but I'm sure there's plenty for us to still disagree on. 0 -
I will not. You got it right bro! hahaha I too enjoy these things and have done so while losing nearly as much weight as yourself...unfortunately without exercise they caught back up to me, so I gotta work my way back down! lol
i think this is my point in a nutshell. if you eat primarily whole foods, what you experienced is much, MUCH less likely to happen. eating the types of foods I eat and in the quantities I eat them, even if I stop exercising I won't gain weight, or not significantly.
Okay, quick question. You are only 24 years old, you have "0" pounds to lose. I am curious. Were you ever overweight? If so, how overweight were you? Do you have pictures of this? Have you ever had issues with food at all? Sometimes, if we have not walked in a person's shoes, we don't understand everything they deal with. It's easy to tell people how to eat or how not to eat, but if you have never lived this life - you really have no true idea what it takes to succeed. Not critizing you at all, just curious.
False argument. I'm 31 years old. I have had 2 kids. I was 106# when I got pregnant with my first. I was 167# when I went in for delivery. I was #160 when I walked out. Lost 30# through eating clean and group fitness. I was 130# when I got pregnant with my son. Again in the high 160s when I went in for delivery. I got stuck at 148# for a year after. I struggled with breastfeeding and a whole boat load of things and didn't feed my body correctly. I was well within my calorie range but because I was tired and dealing with two kids, all I ate was Weight Watchers frozen meals. Didn't work. At all. In 2010 I signed up for a 5k and started back eating clean. By May I was down to 118#. I have fluctuated often due to my diet.
I'm not saying that my anecdotal evidence applies to all. As someone who has had to work very hard to maintain my figure (I never got back down to my pre-pregnancy weight and probably never will) I definitely understand the struggles. AND I AGREE WITH COACHREDDY... You don't need to have struggled with your weight to have insight on proper nutrition.
and I don't think that was totally Beachlovers point, she simple stated for her that being overweight (20-30 lbs. is one thing but being 70. 100. 200+) it would be alot easier to take advice from someone who as been in the same shoes.. I started out at 560 lbs, and my first stop after I put the loaded hand gun down was therapy and the guy sitting across the table from me was 160 lbs. soaking wet and was a 5 minute a mile marathon runner. All I could think about was how can you possibly know what I am going through let alone offer anything that would help me begin to lose this weight... I was going 3 times a week and it took me 2-3 months before I could wrap my head around the fact he possible could help me... The whole point atleast in my eyes and I think I can speak for Beach is the process could have been I whole lot easier in the beginning, had I been sitting across the table from someone that walked I mile in my shoes.... Until you have actiually lost 300+ lbs. no one can possible know what that is like unless you have been there... 4 years ago I couldn't walk, I could barely stand for 30 seconds at a time. Now with bad knees and all I just came home from putting in 2 miles in the pool at the Y.... I think that is more the point, it isn't so much that you can't give good advice, it is just more of a I would have preferred to hear it from someone that has been there... No offense...... and @CoachReddy Thanks!!! I came home and got caught up on the thread and literally fell out of my chair and hit my head on my laptop cart!! (kidding) but I was surprised...... lol
hahaha hope your head's alright.
at the end of the day you have to WANT to do what you're doing. I never set out to "eat clean" or whatever, it just sort of... evolved... and once I was doing it I realized I really liked doing it. I can spout on all day (what? i'd never do that) about eating this that and the other thing, but everyone's got different goals, reasons for doing this, and if eating perfectly "clean" isn't something that gets you excited and invested in your "journey" for lack of a better word, then **** man, don't do it. Not that I eat perfectly clean either, but I'm sure you get my point.
but I'm sure there's plenty for us to still disagree on.
Yep and I totally agree, if it is something that works great for you then by all means keep at it....... I am not a big ice cream person but I fill in my caloric intake with calorie dense foods like Almonds, and other Nuts and am a All Natural Peanut butter junkie.. lol... but I still live by the everything in moderation (so pop tarts do fall in there) and so far (for me anyway) it has aloud me to drop a few pounds... lol... So yeah agreed we each have our approach and it works for us so that is great.... and I am sure we will agree to disagree on other thread lol..... but that is cool makes for good forum debates..... :drinker:0 -
I will not. You got it right bro! hahaha I too enjoy these things and have done so while losing nearly as much weight as yourself...unfortunately without exercise they caught back up to me, so I gotta work my way back down! lol
i think this is my point in a nutshell. if you eat primarily whole foods, what you experienced is much, MUCH less likely to happen. eating the types of foods I eat and in the quantities I eat them, even if I stop exercising I won't gain weight, or not significantly.
Okay, quick question. You are only 24 years old, you have "0" pounds to lose. I am curious. Were you ever overweight? If so, how overweight were you? Do you have pictures of this? Have you ever had issues with food at all? Sometimes, if we have not walked in a person's shoes, we don't understand everything they deal with. It's easy to tell people how to eat or how not to eat, but if you have never lived this life - you really have no true idea what it takes to succeed. Not critizing you at all, just curious.
False argument. I'm 31 years old. I have had 2 kids. I was 106# when I got pregnant with my first. I was 167# when I went in for delivery. I was #160 when I walked out. Lost 30# through eating clean and group fitness. I was 130# when I got pregnant with my son. Again in the high 160s when I went in for delivery. I got stuck at 148# for a year after. I struggled with breastfeeding and a whole boat load of things and didn't feed my body correctly. I was well within my calorie range but because I was tired and dealing with two kids, all I ate was Weight Watchers frozen meals. Didn't work. At all. In 2010 I signed up for a 5k and started back eating clean. By May I was down to 118#. I have fluctuated often due to my diet.
I'm not saying that my anecdotal evidence applies to all. As someone who has had to work very hard to maintain my figure (I never got back down to my pre-pregnancy weight and probably never will) I definitely understand the struggles. AND I AGREE WITH COACHREDDY... You don't need to have struggled with your weight to have insight on proper nutrition.
and I don't think that was totally Beachlovers point, she simple stated for her that being overweight (20-30 lbs. is one thing but being 70. 100. 200+) it would be alot easier to take advice from someone who as been in the same shoes.. I started out at 560 lbs, and my first stop after I put the loaded hand gun down was therapy and the guy sitting across the table from me was 160 lbs. soaking wet and was a 5 minute a mile marathon runner. All I could think about was how can you possibly know what I am going through let alone offer anything that would help me begin to lose this weight... I was going 3 times a week and it took me 2-3 months before I could wrap my head around the fact he possible could help me... The whole point atleast in my eyes and I think I can speak for Beach is the process could have been I whole lot easier in the beginning, had I been sitting across the table from someone that walked I mile in my shoes.... Until you have actiually lost 300+ lbs. no one can possible know what that is like unless you have been there... 4 years ago I couldn't walk, I could barely stand for 30 seconds at a time. Now with bad knees and all I just came home from putting in 2 miles in the pool at the Y.... I think that is more the point, it isn't so much that you can't give good advice, it is just more of a I would have preferred to hear it from someone that has been there... No offense...... and @CoachReddy Thanks!!! I came home and got caught up on the thread and literally fell out of my chair and hit my head on my laptop cart!! (kidding) but I was surprised...... lol
Thank you Ed. You expressed that perfectly. :flowerforyou: And it was not an "argument" at all. I was stating an opinion about how I can relate better to someone that I know has succeeded in weight loss. There are millions of people who are trained in nutrition, health, etc. Usually the information is the same. Having understanding of proper nutrition is rarely the problem for being overweight. Part of it - but never all of it. For some reason, I find it more helpful to have guidance from others who have lost weight. Just me.0
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