what's too much protein when bulking?

I can't believe I really did just sit here and read all that, lol. Thanks for the input, i'm shooting for 1-1.5g/bw daily.

So let go by those sources.... Someone has already done the summary.

http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

With a 0.82 g/lb bodyweight that comes up to about ..... 1 g/lb of LBM.

Edit: You gained 1 lb of LBM after a year of lifting? Newbie gains or not - that isn't what I'm looking for.

I was in a calorie deficit the entire time. That's about the time i lost my first 100lbs. I was lifting through 90% of it. I wouldn't expect much of a gain on LBM.

Are you familiar with the work by Dr.Barry Sears(Biochemist)? He's the creator of the zone diet, the popular 40/30/30 was created by him.

He has produced 25 olympic gold medalist... His highest recommendations for protein?

Sedentary - multiply lbs of lean body mass by .5
Light activity (e.g. walking) - multiply by .6
Moderate (30 minutes of vigorous activity 3 days per week) - .7
Active (1 hour per day 5 days per week) - .8
Very Active (10 hours of vigorous activity per week - .9
Athlete - multiply by 1.0

Yes, more than heard of him. Let's see.
A 40:30:30 diet, if you are not overly restricting, guarantees a protein consumption well above 0.7 g / lb of LBM.

So is he right or wrong?

How many grams would that be for 2100 calories (my cut)? Might it be 158g? Why yes.
And for me, that translates to 1.02 g/lb of LBM.

Thanks, Dr Sears. (And the zone "anti-immflamatory" thing is bull pluck)

you did it backwards. You don't determine your calories first. His method is you determine your protein intake first, and make your calories around that. I have no idea what my LBM is... for example if i was still at 200lbs of LBM, athlete(1g of protein per LBM for simple math)

1. Calculate protein calories
200g protein ( 4 calories/1g protein) = 800 calories protein

2. Calculate total calories
800 calories(protein) is 30% of something.
800/.30 = ~2,666 calories total.

2. Calculate carb calories
We know that we are going to eat 40% of total calories.
2,666 * .40 = 1,066 calories(calories for carbs)


2. Calculate fat calories
It should be same amount of calories as protein since both are 30%. Just to verify we should still calculate it to make sure we did things right, fat is 30% of total calories.

2.666 * .30 = 799.8 calories (some precision was lost due to sig figs) but close enough. So we did things right.

Doing it this way, either way my protein is still the same 800 calories or 200g.

His diet is automatically a reduced calorie diet, I mean for me... I was calculated at 1,700 calories a day weighing in around 290-300lbs with an LBM of around 200lbs or so.

A lot of people do it wrong(the 40/30/30) thing. Well it was originally created by the zone but people don't follow it using his protocol, they just randomly do 40/30/30 based off their calculated deficit.

I can't believe I really did just sit here and read all that, lol. Thanks for the input, i'm shooting for 1-1.5g/bw daily.

Hope you are able to stick with it being new to this and all. Just don't want to get tired of protein intake and want to quit. Has happened to a lot of people, they feel they have to follow certain protocols and can't stick with them and they get upset and just quit... good luck.

ETA: I just read it said per lbs of BW. You think that's a good formula? If you weighed 400lbs you would consume 600g of protein? not a good formula, it should be calculated based on LBM.

Why? High protein diets aren't hard.

If you have food addictions as most over weight people do, it doesn't end well. it's too much of a big change assuming he's just starting out. That's my concern, jumping in to something that is a compete 180.

As I mentioned above, i have many studies that support my claim. Here is part of a topic i wrote with references

Those references were disputed heavily in the thread where you posted it.

1g to 1.5 g per pound of body weight.. the body can only absorb 40 g at a time..protein is the most important along with amino acids to build muscle.

Lacto-ovo vegeterians

Lacto-ovo vegeterians(I’ll just call them veggie’s for short) Consume about 79g of protein and about 450 calories less than non-vegetarians. Non veggie’s consume about 138g of protein on a daily basis. Both groups in this study gained between 2-5lbs of LBM. The point of this study is to show once you meet the minimum requirements you don’t need more protein. Remember 5lbs of LBM is what can be gained with a good resistance plan. In this study both groups came close to average results, even the veggies who ate very low amounts of protein.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14600563

They put vegetarians on creatine and they showed a gain in LBM? No *kitten*! What am I missing here? Of course they gained LBM.

Protein builds muscle remember, it's all about protein -cough cough- It's physically impossible for them to build muscle mass according to you guys because they didn't have enough protein to do so.

As I mentioned above, i have many studies that support my claim. Here is part of a topic i wrote with references

Those references were disputed heavily in the thread where you posted it.

This thread?

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/787083-muscle-growth-protein-recommendations-highly-over-rated

Contact olivia, tell her to bring back the post where you and sidesteel both criticized the topic but didn't get far because i debunked everything both you said..

Lacto-ovo vegeterians

Lacto-ovo vegeterians(I’ll just call them veggie’s for short) Consume about 79g of protein and about 450 calories less than non-vegetarians. Non veggie’s consume about 138g of protein on a daily basis. Both groups in this study gained between 2-5lbs of LBM. The point of this study is to show once you meet the minimum requirements you don’t need more protein. Remember 5lbs of LBM is what can be gained with a good resistance plan. In this study both groups came close to average results, even the veggies who ate very low amounts of protein.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14600563

They put vegetarians on creatine and they showed a gain in LBM? No *kitten*! What am I missing here? Of course they gained LBM.

Protein builds muscle remember, it's all about protein -cough cough- It's physically impossible for them to build muscle mass according to you guys because they didn't have enough protein to do so.

like what everyone said with 1g per lb

excess protein is also synthesized for other functions within the body. Nothing is every truly wasted

look up gluconeogenesis and denovo lipogenesis

DNL is highly inefficient process if it even occurs. Exercise is mostly glucose dependent not protein dependent. It takes quick energy to be able to lift and recover. Gluconeogenesis would take to long. Just go directly to the source and eat the carbs...

Ummm, DNL is certainly what happens when dietary carbohydrates exceed total energy expenditure. VLDL synthesis in the liver is actually rather efficient. Or are you talking about something else?

I was talking about gluconeogenesis being highly ineffective. About DNL, I remember reading a study saying that our ability to store carbs is greater than what we think. Also that DNL doesn't happen in humans. I just read an abstract right now to refresh my memory. It's saying DNL does exist in humans from a logical stand point(thinking about it in a common sense way) it has to exist.

Of course your body stores carbs preferably, but if protein cannot be stored, and carbs cannot be stored, the energy is not going to magically disappear.

You are not interpreting the study properly

I remember now(you jogged my memory). the study was pretty much saying that protein gets converted to glucose as you know, and carbs obviously get converted to glucose and both are stored as glycogen, not converted to fat. What happens is we limit the fat oxidation. It mentioned how we can hold a lot more glycogen than previously thought.

ok, well what if all are full?

That is my point

The question is, "how much glycogen do you need for it to be full?

like what everyone said with 1g per lb

excess protein is also synthesized for other functions within the body. Nothing is every truly wasted

look up gluconeogenesis and denovo lipogenesis

DNL is highly inefficient process if it even occurs. Exercise is mostly glucose dependent not protein dependent. It takes quick energy to be able to lift and recover. Gluconeogenesis would take to long. Just go directly to the source and eat the carbs...

Ummm, DNL is certainly what happens when dietary carbohydrates exceed total energy expenditure. VLDL synthesis in the liver is actually rather efficient. Or are you talking about something else?

I was talking about gluconeogenesis being highly ineffective. About DNL, I remember reading a study saying that our ability to store carbs is greater than what we think. Also that DNL doesn't happen in humans. I just read an abstract right now to refresh my memory. It's saying DNL does exist in humans from a logical stand point(thinking about it in a common sense way) it has to exist.

Of course your body stores carbs preferably, but if protein cannot be stored, and carbs cannot be stored, the energy is not going to magically disappear.

You are not interpreting the study properly

I remember now(you jogged my memory). the study was pretty much saying that protein gets converted to glucose as you know, and carbs obviously get converted to glucose and both are stored as glycogen, not converted to fat. What happens is we limit the fat oxidation. It mentioned how we can hold a lot more glycogen than previously thought.

ok, well what if all are full?

That is my point

The question is, "how much glycogen do you need for it to be full?

That is far from the point
Vary from person to person, but that doesnt matter, DNL will still occur.

You still havent respodned to my comments about you stating studies/articles that you linked and reccomended .82 when you were trying to use them to justify your .5g
on top of the fact you are trying justify protein intake from an obese individual and apply it to a normal sized person

I missed your question, and i don't understand if you're asking it here... so ask again?

I have also been told that most people can't absorb much more than 30 grams of protein at a time. So the point would be that if you are taking in anymore than that at a time it will pass through. Makes you take a more balanced approach instead of trying to do it all at once.

That's a myth that will never die. Think about it. A 250 LB bodybuilder can only absorb as much protein as a 130 LB female at one meal.