Child support- what do you think?

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  • BinaryPulsar
    BinaryPulsar Posts: 8,927 Member
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    There are a lot of bad things that happen in this world at the hands of humans. There are a lot of bad people in this world. There are a lot of skewed, biased, bad, and wrong decisions made in court. And it goes both ways. It doesn't only, always, go in one bad direction. There are many bad directions both inside and outside of court. That is actually my only point. But, as far as this particular situation goes, it is it's own situation to be handled by the factors involved in it, other people's completely different, bad experiences have no relation to the specific circumstances of this situation. And I realize I did not make that clear.

    If she wants child support, she should file. I personally would not, only because I would just cut my losses and not want the guy in my life. If he would lie about having a family, I consider that to be a bit of a risky individual.
  • kmbweber2014
    kmbweber2014 Posts: 680 Member
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    I have a 7 year old and I have never gotten child support. I have also never received government assistance. I've worked my butt off to provide for my child, taking jobs that weren't the best and I quite school to make sure he has everything he needs. I am now back in school, still working full time, still not collecting child support. I chose to do this because I didn't want my son's dad to continue coming in and out of his life.
  • nena49659
    nena49659 Posts: 260 Member
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    This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.

    But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.

    Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?

    So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??

    I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!

    Yeh, probably should have known better since it's such a hot topic.

    Abortion is murder. Not a contraceptive.
  • TheSlorax
    TheSlorax Posts: 2,401 Member
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    This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.

    But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.

    If he didn't want a child with anyone other than his wife, he should not have had sex with any woman other than his wife. That's the only way to be 100% sure. Even the best of contraceptives fail.

    And that totally makes sense! I agree about no sex being the best form of contraception!

    But then I start thinking about how the mother still has another option and can choose to get an abortion if contraception fails. The father can not force her to have an abortion and does not have the same option, no matter how much he wants one.

    so men do not take sex ed and learn about contraception? by choosing to have sex, protected or otherwise, they are not willingly putting themselves at risk for pregnancy?
  • calibriintx
    calibriintx Posts: 1,741 Member
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    This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.

    But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.

    Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?

    So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??

    I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!

    Yeh, probably should have known better since it's such a hot topic.

    Abortion is murder. Not a contraceptive.

    And there it is. There goes the thread.

    eyeroll.gif
  • RockinTerri
    RockinTerri Posts: 499 Member
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    The fact that she makes very little and he makes a lot doesn't change it. No, the kid shouldn't "have the same treatment as the others" unless he chooses to make it so. The only things he should ever be on the hook for is 1/2 the cost of raising the kid. She should have been more careful about having a kid if she wasn't ready for the responsibility. If he chooses to do more than the minimum, that's on him.

    I agree with this. If she wasn't ready to be a parent and got pregnant, there is another option - adoption.
  • BrandNewFabulousMe
    BrandNewFabulousMe Posts: 259
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    Personal bias admittance: I am a single dad. However, I am not paying child support. I am raising my children. They visit their mom, and I have never sought child support from her.

    The whole child support system is skewed. I know how much money I would have to pay if I did not have custody of my kids, and the amount that actually cost is a small fraction of that. What child support then equates to is ex wife/ex gf/ex mistress/ex whatever support. Because it is way above and beyond what is actually needed to help raise kids, assuming the dad has a decent job.

    I am of the firm belief that if child support were more in line with 1/2 the actual cost of raising kids (two parents, each should pay 1/2 the cost), you would see more people willingly stepping up to take care of it. There is no reason that child support should be based on salary, because the cost of raising the child is not changed by how much dad earns. No guy wants to be saddled paying a ton of money, of which only a fraction is actually needed to raise the kids. The end result is they are supporting a child AND the childs mother. It is immoral to expect a man to financially support a woman for 18+ years because he had a child with her. The child, yes. The woman, no.

    There should be a baseline cost for raising kids, with locality adjustments. When child support is to be paid, the paying parent pays 1/2 that amount. It doesn't matter how much you make, you are equally responsible to support the child. And it should be adjusted to account for visitation. If the dad has the kids 30% of the time, his payment should be reduced to reflect that he is feeding, clothing, and sheltering the child 30% of the time.

    DJ...I agree with our post half heartedly. It does not take what is expected from fathers to take care of a kid. Both parents should be responsible for half , but the system as we know it is crazed. I think she is going after suport for the wrong reasons (because he got a new job). Personally if she feels she needds help then go get support, but dont expect this guy to do more than pay his support. When sh edecided to sleep with him unprotected she assumed half baby responsibility and so did he, only problem with that is, he can walk away and unless she wants to give up custody, she cant. basically she should get support, take care of her kids and move on. I applaud you for being a single father not expecting support, but just because its not expected doesnt mean it wouldnt be respected if she gave it. so with that being said, why are you allowing her to go free with no responsibilities just because you feel the system is flawed? any amount is better than none. even if you just put it in a bank account for the kids when they become an adult and want that first car/college money...etc...

    Please re read my post. She is NOT wanting to file b/c he got a new job, she is not wanting to file period. When she was with him he was already working for the government making good money he just got promoted and is making more. I'm the one telling her to file, she's the one saying she feels bad for filing and hasn't decided yet. Before you comment please make sure you have the info right and not quote me wrong. thank you.
  • KatrinaWilke
    KatrinaWilke Posts: 372 Member
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    This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.

    But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.

    If he didn't want a child with anyone other than his wife, he should not have had sex with any woman other than his wife. That's the only way to be 100% sure. Even the best of contraceptives fail.

    And that totally makes sense! I agree about no sex being the best form of contraception!

    But then I start thinking about how the mother still has another option and can choose to get an abortion if contraception fails. The father can not force her to have an abortion and does not have the same option, no matter how much he wants one.

    And I also feel if a women isn't able to support a child on her own and she has no contract with another person (marriage, civil union, or a some sort of legal document) maybe she should think twice about having kids. Anything can happen (divorce or partner dies) and not all relationships last.

    so men do not take sex ed and learn about contraception? by choosing to have sex, protected or otherwise, they are not willingly putting themselves at risk for pregnancy?

    Nope, I agree when two people have sex, they are both putting themselves at risk for pregnancy. The main point I was focusing on was the part where the OP said he wanted her to have an abortion and she did not. Whether you think abortions are right or wrong, women can still choose to have one and their partner does not have to agree with their decision.

    Personally I would hope the two people are mature adults and can make a decison together.
  • TaxPrepLiz
    TaxPrepLiz Posts: 28 Member
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    Personal bias admittance: I am a single dad. However, I am not paying child support. I am raising my children. They visit their mom, and I have never sought child support from her.

    The whole child support system is skewed. I know how much money I would have to pay if I did not have custody of my kids, and the amount that actually cost is a small fraction of that. What child support then equates to is ex wife/ex gf/ex mistress/ex whatever support. Because it is way above and beyond what is actually needed to help raise kids, assuming the dad has a decent job.

    I am of the firm belief that if child support were more in line with 1/2 the actual cost of raising kids (two parents, each should pay 1/2 the cost), you would see more people willingly stepping up to take care of it. There is no reason that child support should be based on salary, because the cost of raising the child is not changed by how much dad earns. No guy wants to be saddled paying a ton of money, of which only a fraction is actually needed to raise the kids. The end result is they are supporting a child AND the childs mother. It is immoral to expect a man to financially support a woman for 18+ years because he had a child with her. The child, yes. The woman, no.

    There should be a baseline cost for raising kids, with locality adjustments. When child support is to be paid, the paying parent pays 1/2 that amount. It doesn't matter how much you make, you are equally responsible to support the child. And it should be adjusted to account for visitation. If the dad has the kids 30% of the time, his payment should be reduced to reflect that he is feeding, clothing, and sheltering the child 30% of the time.

    you know what I agree with that. It should be based on the cost of raising a child rather than income, but in some cases like this she's making probably less than 18k a year and he's making 90k a year. His other kids probably have a college fund I feel that her child should get the same treatment as the others. I commend you for taking care of your kids. You don't hear of too many single dads in the area I live in. People like you could def make a difference in some of the dead beat dads out there =)

    In a sense it is based on the cost of raising a child. A person making 18k/yr is going to raise their kid with a lot fewer advantages than a person making 90k/yr. So, basing the support on income and physical custody percentage of each parent generally gives a rough idea of what that non-custodial parent would be spending to support that child if they were in their custody full time and gives the difference to the custodial parent. Why should the kid have to suffer? As I said in a previous post, I most certainly spend more that what I receive in child support. BTW, I make nearly 50k/yr and my ex makes a little over 50k/yr and he doesn't visit. If he had visitation his support amount would go down because then we would be providing for our child on his own time/dime.
  • KatrinaWilke
    KatrinaWilke Posts: 372 Member
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    This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.

    But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.

    Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?

    So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??

    I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!

    Yeh, probably should have known better since it's such a hot topic.

    Abortion is murder. Not a contraceptive.

    And there it is. There goes the thread.

    eyeroll.gif

    My apologies for derailing it!!!!
  • junejadesky
    junejadesky Posts: 524 Member
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    This fact has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not the single mother should file for support. This fact was put out there specifically to paint the man in a particular light to evoke a desired response from the forum.

    No I did not. I said it b/c it was the truth and it's pretty sick and sad that she found out the reason the father of her child had another family knowning a new child of his was about to be born. It not only hurt her I'm sure, but I'm sure he realized it would hurt his family if they found out the truth. Please dont attempt to give reason for what I wrote. Speak for yourself. Thank you
    [/quote]

    This is my reply to the 2nd quote above which was not showing for some reason!

    The only person that BOTH parties should be concerned with is the child. Ultimately if they do nothing to "protect" everyone else and how they would feel, the child is being pushed to the side for their own selfish reasons.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,229 Member
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    This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.

    But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.

    Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?

    So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??

    I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!

    I have no interest in a debate about abortion. Focus on the responsibility. The comparison I made was legitimate. Now answer the question.

    If you allow someone to do something to your property or person, and they inform you that they don't want to deal with the consequences of those actions, are you really going to absolve them of the responsibility?
  • BrandNewFabulousMe
    BrandNewFabulousMe Posts: 259
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    Did he know that she wasnt on the pill?

    did he not have common sense to go to walgreens and get some condoms? both are responsible point blank
  • junejadesky
    junejadesky Posts: 524 Member
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    what I've always found interesting is a woman can get an abortion with out the Dad's consent if she doesn't want it. She doesn't even have to tell him. She has all the control. So if a guy does not want a kid, gives up his rights, asks her to terminate, why should he have to pay up the rest of his life? It does indeed take two to tango, and if a woman puts herself in a position to get knocked up by a man she doesn't know too well and is not married to....well then....it's the bed you made.

    He's free to sign over his rights
    He can't just sign over rights and get out of paying support. The mother has to agree to that.

    she's offered it to him already. it's still an option that he has refused to take and just do nothing about. so that is why i feel he can help take care of the child.

    If she is struggling WHY would she offer for him to sign over his parental rights? Then he has no legal claim to the child and would not ever have to pay support.

    She needs to do what is best for the child and GO FILE WITH THE STATE FOR SUPPORT. It's not about her and the father; it's about what is in the best interest of the child.

    Legally, the state will not allow him to sign over her rights unless she is married to someone who wants to adopt the child.

    Wow you know the child support laws of every state? Wish I did. AND I was merely pointing out that the fact that she even OFFERED for him to give up rights is absolutely selfish and ridiculous
  • TheSlorax
    TheSlorax Posts: 2,401 Member
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    This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.

    But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.

    If he didn't want a child with anyone other than his wife, he should not have had sex with any woman other than his wife. That's the only way to be 100% sure. Even the best of contraceptives fail.

    And that totally makes sense! I agree about no sex being the best form of contraception!

    But then I start thinking about how the mother still has another option and can choose to get an abortion if contraception fails. The father can not force her to have an abortion and does not have the same option, no matter how much he wants one.

    And I also feel if a women isn't able to support a child on her own and she has no contract with another person (marriage, civil union, or a some sort of legal document) maybe she should think twice about having kids. Anything can happen (divorce or partner dies) and not all relationships last.

    so men do not take sex ed and learn about contraception? by choosing to have sex, protected or otherwise, they are not willingly putting themselves at risk for pregnancy?

    Nope, I agree when two people have sex, they are both putting themselves at risk for pregnancy. The main point I was focusing on was the part where the OP said he wanted her to have an abortion and she did not. Whether you think abortions are right or wrong, women can still choose to have one and their partner does not have to agree with their decision.

    Personally I would hope the two people are mature adults and can make a decison together.

    ok, that makes more sense. that is true, but in my opinion, if the man chooses to have sex with a woman he should be prepared for the possibility of a pregnancy, and with that comes the decisions the woman may make regarding that pregnancy.

    with that I am out, this thread is going to end up locked anyway. :smokin:
  • TaxPrepLiz
    TaxPrepLiz Posts: 28 Member
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    There is a baseline... and it's based on how much money you make. Sure, hypothetically it may only cost 300.00 a month to raise a child but if the one parent makes 150K a year and gets to live a cushy lifestyle why should your child have to scrape by with the bare minimum, while the other parent does all the work ensuring their needs/well being is met.

    Sensitive subject for me, I believe whole heartedly that the father should pay what is EXPECTED of him to pay...The guilt will go away, it takes time, she just has to realize it's for their child to have the best possible life under the given circumstances.. Good luck to your friend.

    If the childs needs are met, that is all that really matters. Why should a man making 150k a year support a lifestyle upgrade for mom just because he has a child with her. If he wants to do more FOR THE CHILD, that is on him. But writing a bigger check means supporting moms lifestyle. And that is not dads responsibility.

    And it is a sensitive subject for a lot of women. They don't want to give up that free money.

    I'd hardly call the money "free". He abandon his child. Doesn't offer support of any kind. She is entitle to financial support. She does EVERYTHING. All the WORK of raising this child is on her. The money is not free.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,229 Member
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    what I've always found interesting is a woman can get an abortion with out the Dad's consent if she doesn't want it. She doesn't even have to tell him. She has all the control. So if a guy does not want a kid, gives up his rights, asks her to terminate, why should he have to pay up the rest of his life? It does indeed take two to tango, and if a woman puts herself in a position to get knocked up by a man she doesn't know too well and is not married to....well then....it's the bed you made.

    He's free to sign over his rights
    He can't just sign over rights and get out of paying support. The mother has to agree to that.

    she's offered it to him already. it's still an option that he has refused to take and just do nothing about. so that is why i feel he can help take care of the child.

    If she is struggling WHY would she offer for him to sign over his parental rights? Then he has no legal claim to the child and would not ever have to pay support.

    She needs to do what is best for the child and GO FILE WITH THE STATE FOR SUPPORT. It's not about her and the father; it's about what is in the best interest of the child.

    Legally, the state will not allow him to sign over her rights unless she is married to someone who wants to adopt the child.

    Wow you know the child support laws of every state? Wish I did. AND I was merely pointing out that the fact that she even OFFERED for him to give up rights is absolutely selfish and ridiculous

    No I don't know the laws of every state. I'm not sure why you were taking that as a personal attack. It was a one sentence statement about the legality of the comment you responded to. My statement was meant to reassure that the state will protect children from a mother's stupid, selfish, foolish actions like this. At least, my state does.
  • KatrinaWilke
    KatrinaWilke Posts: 372 Member
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    This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.

    But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.

    Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?

    So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??

    I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!

    I have no interest in a debate about abortion. Focus on the responsibility. The comparison I made was legitimate. Now answer the question.

    If you allow someone to do something to your property or person, and they inform you that they don't want to deal with the consequences of those actions, are you really going to absolve them of the responsibility?

    Yeah, I really can't answer that.... I can't compare getting pregant to borrowing a car.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,229 Member
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    This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.

    But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.

    Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?

    So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??

    I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!

    I have no interest in a debate about abortion. Focus on the responsibility. The comparison I made was legitimate. Now answer the question.

    If you allow someone to do something to your property or person, and they inform you that they don't want to deal with the consequences of those actions, are you really going to absolve them of the responsibility?

    Yeah, I really can't answer that.... I can't compare getting pregant to borrowing a car.

    Then just answer the generic question that specified nothing in particular except legal liability:

    If you allow someone to do something to your property or person, and they inform you that they don't want to deal with the consequences of those actions, are you really going to absolve them of the responsibility?
  • daffodilsoup
    daffodilsoup Posts: 1,972 Member
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    If he told her from the beginning that he didn't want the child, I don't believe he should be responsible to pay to raise that child if the mother has decided she wanted to keep it. It would be one thing if the child was born, the mother thought they would raise the child together, and he winds up running off, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

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