Is chivalry really dead? :(

Can't have chivalry and equality at the same time, so yes it's dead or at the least almost dead.

Equality is one thing and Chivalry is another.

They are distinct, but they sometimes come in conflict. Opening doors, for instance, is a nice gesture. It doesn't presuppose any inequality.

Picking up the tab does. If my date and I are both professionals with equal opportunities for earning, it makes no sense for us not to go dutch unless you suppose some inequality between us.

And what about doing something nice for a woman you're courting?

I don't agree with you here.

Maybe I was raised "wrong", but it makes me ridiculously uncomfortable for a woman to pay for anything in my presence. (Within reason, mind.)

Yeah, I would say that's a problem. Can't she do something nice for you? Why does it make you feel so uncomfortable? Do you feel emasculated? Do you assume you're more successful than her? I buy stuff for my boyfriends all the time. It's a nice gesture as long as you don't require it.

Yeah, I would say that's a problem. Can't she do something nice for you? Why does it make you feel so uncomfortable? Do you feel emasculated? Do you assume you're more successful than her? I buy stuff for my boyfriends all the time. It's a nice gesture as long as you don't require it.

Of course she can do something nice for me. I don't feel emasculated, I just feel that if I ask her out, I should pay.
I don't assume I'm more successful...
I've been known to let a woman pay if she asked me out and insisted on paying.
It was hard, but I did it.

Why? Would you owe her some bow chica wow wow later?

Oh heavens no.
I just deem it to be kind and respectful behavior to show a woman I'm trying to court.

I'm going to elaborate on this....

Just because I pay doesn't mean I have any expectations. And any guy that DOES have expectations if he pays is dangerous and not a man.

I guess I fail to see the conflict between chivalry and equality.

Chivalry is a way of treating people...

Equality is allowing people an equal opportunity for achievement.

Men who hold back chivalry in the name of equality do so out of holding a grudge, or because they don't like showing respect to women in the first place.

But that's just my opinion.

I like you.

I like u 2!!

Yeah, I would say that's a problem. Can't she do something nice for you? Why does it make you feel so uncomfortable? Do you feel emasculated? Do you assume you're more successful than her? I buy stuff for my boyfriends all the time. It's a nice gesture as long as you don't require it.

Of course she can do something nice for me. I don't feel emasculated, I just feel that if I ask her out, I should pay.
I don't assume I'm more successful...
I've been known to let a woman pay if she asked me out and insisted on paying.
It was hard, but I did it.

See, that's a good attitude to have. You should have said that in the first place. The person who does the asking out should be the one who pays.

I think people need to look in the dictionary what it means to be chivalrous before they respond. I really feel like some people are responding without knowing an ACTUAL definition.
(lol it's mfp I am expecting way too much from people to look this up I'm sure)

And what about doing something nice for a woman you're courting?

I don't agree with you here.

Maybe I was raised "wrong", but it makes me ridiculously uncomfortable for a woman to pay for anything in my presence. (Within reason, mind.)

Well, to begin with most times that I'm hanging out with a girl, I'm not courting her. If we're just friends having lunch, why would it make you uncomfortable that she's paying for hers...

I tend to pay on dates too, but I expect the girl to at least offer to share the cost. In fact, not doing so is a big red flag for me.

What I'm trying to say is that I agree with doing something nice for my date because I want to do it, but I disagree with being expected to do it.

Well if it evolves it wouldn't be the same any longer wouldn't it?

Red queen hypothesis...

I think people need to look in the dictionary what it means to be chivalrous before they respond. I really feel like some people are responding without knowing an ACTUAL definition.
(lol it's mfp I am expecting way too much from people to look this up I'm sure)

But it has been provided and argued about.

In this very thread.

Confusing simple basic good manners with chivalry is really a sad indicator of how chivalry, in America at least, is dead.

Well, to begin with most times that I'm hanging out with a girl, I'm not courting her. If we're just friends having lunch, why would it make you uncomfortable that she's paying for hers...

I honestly don't know. It just does.
I think it goes back to following the example of my grandfather. He was a very well of man, a self-made successful gentleman. And he delighted in taking care of the bill. He was VERY much an old-school gentleman, and did this as part of his behavior.
I have always tried to emulate this. I feel the practice brings a smile to a woman's face, which is never a bad thing - at least in my mind. It gives me joy.
So is my behavior selfish in nature? Perhaps. It's possible I'm feeding my ego.
But it's appreciated behavior. And I feel good that I'm in a financial position to not have to think twice about it. (And no, it's not Grandpa's money - it's mine. I went out and made my own. )

I tend to pay on dates too, but I expect the girl to at least offer to share the cost. In fact, not doing so is a big red flag for me.

Interesting.

What I'm trying to say is that I agree with doing something nice for my date because I want to do it, but I disagree with being expected to do it.

Now I completely agree with you there. If it's not appreciated or I don't at least get a "thank you", I don't do it again for that particular individual. And if it's a date and that happens - it's a last date.