High carb vegan diet

Vitamin B12

... is available as a vegan based supplement. You raise an important nutritional point as B12 is needed in tiny quantities but is essential.

But since you need a supplement to obtain it then surly we aren't designed to be vegans

(ps I have no issue if you are a vegan, I do have issue with the preaching of the op)

You make a valid point. B12 is found naturally in the soil (esepcially where there is manure - heh - from animals right!) so if we were grubbing our veggies out of the soil all day and not washing/cooking our food, we would probably be ok.

For me, the decision to go vegan was (is) due to the way the animals are treated in the meat industry, that it is more efficient to feed an expanding world population on plants rather than meat and the fact that, because of modern technology, we are now able to make that choice.

I don't seek to preach to anyone or change the world or think the world will come to some nasty end if we don't all change overnight, but I do enjoy the option to make a choice for myself.

Jade - I applaude your enthusiam and choosing to go vegan, but some of your points are not accurate.

May I suggest there is a vegan group on MFP where you could try out your points and have them discussed by fellow vegans before you venture out in to the open arena of the general forum; if at all.

Why promote veganism to people who already are vegans. I'm just giving advice, that's all, just exercising my freedom of speech. A high carb low fat vegan diet is the way to go , but if calorie restricting is working for you then fine keep doing it, im not forcing anyone.

It would be a good way to gain some more information and knowledge from others who live the vegan lifestyle so its a good suggestion to join a group of other like minded people. Right now with reading your post, there is still alot for you to learn. There's nothing wrong with that and you can't necessarily go by how you currently feel. You're young and we are more resilient when we are young so you may not feel the effects of any damage that you might end up doing to yourself until you are older if you are not getting the necessary nutrients you need.

You had said you have nearly eliminated sodium from your diet. I'm not sure how much you have eliminated or if you are trying to eliminate it all together but if that is the case that isn't good, you do need sodium.

I suspect when the results of all the research are finally in, we're going to realize that we have two choices for keeping weight off: Plant based, high carb, low fat, lower protein than your average American gets. Or meat based, low carb, moderate protein. And we'll find that both work. What is the unifying theme? No high sugar, high fat combo, processed junk foods in either of these diets.

Look at pets for instance, a cat eats all they and sleeps all they but won't gain weight. Just try it out for 2 weeks and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Probably not the best analogy. 95% of cats I have as patients are obese and have gained weight at every visit. Same thing for our dogs.

Do you think that is because their food isn't meat based, or their owners feed them too many treats, or both? Or lack of exercise due to lack of a need to fetch their own food by hunting and killing, or all of the above?

I suspect when the results of all the research are finally in, we're going to realize that we have two choices for keeping weight off: Plant based, high carb, low fat, lower protein than your average American gets. Or meat based, low carb, moderate protein. And we'll find that both work. What is the unifying theme? No high sugar, high fat combo, processed junk foods in either of these diets.

The results are already in.

Eat less calories than you burn to lose weight. That can consist of high sugar processed junk if it fits in your calorie goal.

Those results don't measure long-term compliance when trying to lose or maintain. The studies that do measure compliance actually seem to favor low carb right now, but I still think plant based will also come out well.

I hear protein is good for brain development.

Love this :')

Besides, this whole hype about protein builds muscle is overrated, training builds muscle, but yes you do need protein in order to build muscle but not that much protein.

Training does not BUILD muscle. It creates a state where your body wants to build muscle.
For that your body needs both materials (protein) and energy.

There are many overweight pet cats and dogs.
Hell, I'm pretty sure the dead rat I found hanging out of a tight opening in my old work unit had gorged it's self on the chocolates we'd left there the evening before.

Without logging, you're not giving us even a start on your claims. Where do you think the excess calories go if you don't burn 4000 calories a day?

Your analogy is flawed. A predatory animal, such as a wolf, feasts when a kill is made but then they won't eat for days afterwards. I assume you don't eat 4000cals then skip a days worth of eating do you, so that it evens out at 2000cals/day?

Listen, if you're hungry or you just want some food then go and do it, we are a part of nature and in nature there is no calorie restriction. If a wolf had access to food at all times he would eat is brains out without putting on a single pound. Look at pets for instance, a cat eats all they and sleeps all they but won't gain weight. Just try it out for 2 weeks and you'll see what I'm talking about.

where does the term "fat cat" come from...?

My aunt's dog was severely over weight for her size. She had to put her dog on a regiment for eating.

Also, OP, I want to use this example:

My boyfriend is roughly 5'9", and weighs around 145. He's about as un-vegan as you can get. He drinks milk, eats chicken and also bacon burgers, he likes brownies and pbj on WHITE bread. He wont put anything green near his face and the only "veggie" he gets is the tomato sauce on the pizza he eats (he can put away a whole little ceasar's pie by himself--quite a feat.) He love popcorn with tons of butter, and grilled cheese, and eggs. So why doesn't he get fat?

Oh yeah, maybe I didn't mention that he's a tri-season athlete. He burns tons of calories per day: cross country in the fall, wrestling in the winter, and track in the spring.

I really am starting to think this is just calories in vs. Calories out...

I love new vegans/vegetarians ready to preach after 6 weeks of experience.


Basically, you're a freshman and it's October of your first semester. Come at me when you get your degree.

So me loosing weight while eating 4000 cals a day, that's due to what? Before I would easily gain weight if I ate that much. Try it out for yourself before you judge me.

No science minded person on the planet would agree that you have enough data to make the conclusion you made, much less impart your wisdom to other people and assure them they'll have similar results. I don't know what your weight loss at 4k calories is from, but frankly, neither do you.

I love new vegans/vegetarians ready to preach after 6 weeks of experience.


Basically, you're a freshman and it's October of your first semester. Come at me when you get your degree.

So me loosing weight while eating 4000 cals a day, that's due to what? Before I would easily gain weight if I ate that much. Try it out for yourself before you judge me.

No science minded person on the planet would agree that you have enough data to make the conclusion you made, much less impart your wisdom to other people and assure them they'll have similar results. I don't know what your weight loss at 4k calories is from, but frankly, neither do you.

:drinker:

B12 is not inherently an animal product (it's bacteria) so needing to supplement says nothing about whether or not we are "meant" to be vegans. If we didn't have the modern advances we have, we'd obtain the B12 because our food wouldn't be as clean. Animals don't "make" B12, they consume it, which is why you get it from their byproducts and flesh. (To clarify-I have no opinion or feelings on the whole to be or not to be argument. Even if it were true that B-12 were an animal product and evidence that we are not "meant" to be vegan, I'd be as accepting and grateful for technology and modern advances as I am in other areas of my life that would then allow me to make that choice anyway. There's tons of stuff that we eat and do that someone could argue we weren't designed to or meant to.)

But OP, if you are eating 4000 calories a day, losing weight, and not extremely active, you should go to your doctor. As a long-time vegan with a natural tendency to go carb crazy, I can promise you that eating 4000 calories of rice and bread will make you gain weight as much as eating 4000 calories of steak and eggs (if not more) if you don't have a TDEE to justify it.

I love being vegan, but there's nothing about it that makes weight management easier.

B12 is not inherently an animal product (it's bacteria) so needing to supplement says nothing about whether or not we are "meant" to be vegans.

It actually says a lot about the types of foods we evolved to consume, because to my knowledge there is no natural source of B12 other than animals. We can synthesize it in a vegan way using bacteria, but it can't be found in nature in any food source except animals.

Animals don't naturally create B-12. They consume it from the bacteria in the soil. They are no more a source of B-12 than you are. If I ate human flesh, I'd likely get enough B-12, but not because you are a natural source, but because you eat it. (B-12 does go through body processes in the animal, but the animal doesn't generate it on its own.)

To add to my edit though, I don't really care about what we evolved to eat or not to eat. I care about whether or not I can make the choice to be vegan in a healthy way, whether that meets someone else's criteria of "natural" or not. I also use (vegan) antiperspirant because I don't like the natural body smell. We all do things that alter our inherent nature, though I still disagree that B12 is evidence one way or the other. There's plenty of evolutionary evidence that people *can* eat animals, too. To argue one against the other is kind of silly-it's just a choice.