Are we all..sexist?

I see the thread has been going on for a while now, so I may be way to late for people to still be reading... But this type of stuff is my bread and butter so I'll respond.

First... Both sides have their "woes" so technically... yeah, we are all sexist... to the opposite sex to some extent or the other. Just because men and women differ from each other.
Recently, a few of my guy friends told me that I was logical and that most girls weren't logical. It rubbed me the wrong way, because we are both equally logical just in different areas.

With that said, I believe that women get away with being more sexist than men because its generally more accepted in our society. Turn on the TV and watch any sitcom or movie and you will find men being treated as idiots and women as super intellects. Men are put down way more than women and women throw a fit when the tables are turned. Its like the saying "Men should never hit a woman... even if a woman hits him." Thats dumb. No one needs to be hitting period. HUGE double standard.

The negative effects of feminism is so steeped into our everyday life that most people can't identify it. Its why men are so feminine and women are so manly. (Oh, no! Gender roles!!!)

What the eff.

To which part?

Thinking maybe I should clear up that I don't think ALL men are feminine and women are manly. I just hear alot of women saying that men need to step up and be men... then women "stepping up" instead.

The whole thing. Gender inequality is one of the biggest problems in Western society today. Yeah, feminism as a movement isn't all rainbows and unicorns but the way that women are depicted in the media, and therefore treated by society in general, is a big freakin problem. It's horrific. Heck, just look at movies, TV, and pop music. It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men.

The expected gender roles in western society set millions of people up for a great deal of misery and mental anguish when they don't fit into those roles. Your entire post just blows my mind.

I agree with your first paragraph... this is a huge problem. But having gender roles isn't really to blame for those things... romance is a part of our lives. I haven't watch a manly action flick without there being some romantic thing thrown in. I don't see this as a gender roles problem.

The reverse effect is that women who truly desire to be stay- at- home mom's and housewives are looked down upon by our society as a whole. Women can't breastfeed in public (though that is getting better) they can't homeschool their own children, and they can't be in their home without friends and family asking them... "Is that all?"

I am so confused by everything you are saying...

Do you really think romance in action movies doesn't speak to how women are generally viewed as an accessory to mysterious/exciting men ... because you know, it kind of does.

I see the thread has been going on for a while now, so I may be way to late for people to still be reading... But this type of stuff is my bread and butter so I'll respond.

First... Both sides have their "woes" so technically... yeah, we are all sexist... to the opposite sex to some extent or the other. Just because men and women differ from each other.
Recently, a few of my guy friends told me that I was logical and that most girls weren't logical. It rubbed me the wrong way, because we are both equally logical just in different areas.

With that said, I believe that women get away with being more sexist than men because its generally more accepted in our society. Turn on the TV and watch any sitcom or movie and you will find men being treated as idiots and women as super intellects. Men are put down way more than women and women throw a fit when the tables are turned. Its like the saying "Men should never hit a woman... even if a woman hits him." Thats dumb. No one needs to be hitting period. HUGE double standard.

The negative effects of feminism is so steeped into our everyday life that most people can't identify it. Its why men are so feminine and women are so manly. (Oh, no! Gender roles!!!)

What the eff.

To which part?

Thinking maybe I should clear up that I don't think ALL men are feminine and women are manly. I just hear alot of women saying that men need to step up and be men... then women "stepping up" instead.

The whole thing. Gender inequality is one of the biggest problems in Western society today. Yeah, feminism as a movement isn't all rainbows and unicorns but the way that women are depicted in the media, and therefore treated by society in general, is a big freakin problem. It's horrific. Heck, just look at movies, TV, and pop music. It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men.

The expected gender roles in western society set millions of people up for a great deal of misery and mental anguish when they don't fit into those roles. Your entire post just blows my mind.

I agree with your first paragraph... this is a huge problem. But having gender roles isn't really to blame for those things... romance is a part of our lives. I haven't watch a manly action flick without there being some romantic thing thrown in. I don't see this as a gender roles problem.

The reverse effect is that women who truly desire to be stay- at- home mom's and housewives are looked down upon by our society as a whole. Women can't breastfeed in public (though that is getting better) they can't homeschool their own children, and they can't be in their home without friends and family asking them... "Is that all?"

I am so confused by everything you are saying...

Do you really think romance in action movies doesn't speak to how women are generally viewed as an accessory to mysterious/exciting men ... because you know, it kind of does.

I'm trying to be clear..

Women are viewed as an accessory-- and this is wrong... but most people can see it and say that it's wrong.

Men are treated as complete idiots-- and no one notices or says a word about it.

Um, you 100% missed the point.

Attractive people in general get preferential treatment -- this means both men and women. If a man had beat out OP's friend, even if he was more attractive than the friend, his looks wouldn't be talked about as the reason.

Hiring because of beauty is benevolent sexism that hurts men more than women in this scenario, but discriminating because of beauty or lack thereof may not be as gender specific as it seems.

But the question I am asking you is, would we be talking about the appearance of person who beat out the Op's friend if she was male? Would people assume he got the job over the OP's friend because he's more attractive?

There is no doubt that attractive people are given preference. But would anyone have attributed Op's friend not getting the job to looks if the person who got the job was an attractive man?

If he were male I would assume some people would say it was the result of cis heterosexual white male privilege, that is until OP clarifies that he is black, gay, and a female-to male-transgendered person, then it would go back to diversity quotas.

I specially asked you a question and you are avoiding answering it, so last time:

If the Op's friend didn't get hired over another male candidate of the same sexual orientation and race, would his physical appearance be seen as the reason?

You can straw man all you want, but there is no need to downplay and diminish the sexism that women do face to make the sexism men face more legitimate.

I see the thread has been going on for a while now, so I may be way to late for people to still be reading... But this type of stuff is my bread and butter so I'll respond.

First... Both sides have their "woes" so technically... yeah, we are all sexist... to the opposite sex to some extent or the other. Just because men and women differ from each other.
Recently, a few of my guy friends told me that I was logical and that most girls weren't logical. It rubbed me the wrong way, because we are both equally logical just in different areas.

With that said, I believe that women get away with being more sexist than men because its generally more accepted in our society. Turn on the TV and watch any sitcom or movie and you will find men being treated as idiots and women as super intellects. Men are put down way more than women and women throw a fit when the tables are turned. Its like the saying "Men should never hit a woman... even if a woman hits him." Thats dumb. No one needs to be hitting period. HUGE double standard.

The negative effects of feminism is so steeped into our everyday life that most people can't identify it. Its why men are so feminine and women are so manly. (Oh, no! Gender roles!!!)

What the eff.

To which part?

Thinking maybe I should clear up that I don't think ALL men are feminine and women are manly. I just hear alot of women saying that men need to step up and be men... then women "stepping up" instead.

The whole thing. Gender inequality is one of the biggest problems in Western society today. Yeah, feminism as a movement isn't all rainbows and unicorns but the way that women are depicted in the media, and therefore treated by society in general, is a big freakin problem. It's horrific. Heck, just look at movies, TV, and pop music. It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men.

The expected gender roles in western society set millions of people up for a great deal of misery and mental anguish when they don't fit into those roles. Your entire post just blows my mind.

I agree with your first paragraph... this is a huge problem. But having gender roles isn't really to blame for those things... romance is a part of our lives. I haven't watch a manly action flick without there being some romantic thing thrown in. I don't see this as a gender roles problem.

The reverse effect is that women who truly desire to be stay- at- home mom's and housewives are looked down upon by our society as a whole. Women can't breastfeed in public (though that is getting better) they can't homeschool their own children, and they can't be in their home without friends and family asking them... "Is that all?"

I am so confused by everything you are saying...

Do you really think romance in action movies doesn't speak to how women are generally viewed as an accessory to mysterious/exciting men ... because you know, it kind of does.

I'm trying to be clear..

Women are viewed as an accessory-- and this is wrong... but most people can see it and say that it's wrong.

Men are treated as complete idiots-- and no one notices or says a word about it.

I'll just leave this right here...

http://www.webpronews.com/huggies-ad-backlash-sweeps-web-as-angry-dads-protest-2012-03

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Maybe... but it's still forming the way that we and our children think about men. I remember when I was 5, my mom couldn't fit my ken doll in the front of my barbie car... so she said.. well men can't drive anyway and told me that he needed to sit in the passenger side. For YEARS I really thought all men were terrible drivers.

That's silly, but if little things like that have an effect on our mind... how much greater effects does seeing it in television and media EVERYDAY?

It's not that women don't have legit struggles... but its that men's aren't brought to light near as much.
The world is worried that women are being photoshopped and this is a huge deal because it's changing the way we see beauty but aren't men photoshopped too?

http://youtu.be/9wbTX49padE

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Do you have anything to add? At all? Do you have a different definition of feminism that you would like to argue? Wikipedia was just the fastest link.. You asked that I define the way I am using the word feminism... wikipedia does a good job doing that. If you have another, I'll hear it.

Does romance mean strong man rescuing weak girl or something? What does romance have to do with it?

You said," It's very tough to find two women interacting with each other on a movie or TV screen about something other than a man, and the vast majority of female-led pop songs are either directly about a man or about how empowered the singer is without a man. Women are defined in our society by their romantic value to men. "


I thought you were refering to chicflicks and romantic storylines. I was just pointing out that that's in alot of our movies.. just because we are romantic/relational creatures... and it just is.

I'm talking about all media. Look up the Bechdel Test.

Wikipedia version okay?

Do you think its funny to not use solid sources to formulate your world view?

Pot kettle black. lol

Um, have I provided to you or anyone else the source material for my views and understanding of the world? No. I have not. You have likely made assumptions, meanwhile decrying peer reviewed studies from reputable sources in favor of youtube videos.

The videos have sources and reason, something pseudo-intellectual feminists are not use to. Back to Jezebel.com from whence you came! lol

Yep, let's see those true colors.