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  • _KitKat_
    _KitKat_ Posts: 1,066 Member
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    Tried to edit the previous for being too long and wanted to add this.....

    @Loup I am a little confused on your stance in this thread, I read some of your posting history. This stood out....
    Spirited discussion is not "fighting." I have no intention of fighting, but I do feel free to express my opinion on an open forum. My opinion will not always agree with other people's opinions. I'm absolutely fine with civil discourse when people don't come out with snarky or rude or sarcastic responses. I have no issue with responding in kind when confronted with snark or rudeness or sarcasm. Them's the breaks.

    The majority of your posts are "spirited discussions", the marotiy of the time you are condescending and rude. You justify your behavior by stating " you did it first " like a child would. Two wrongs do not make a right. Even your posts that your advice was sound in, were extremely condescending, defensive and aggressive... even if you seem to prefer passive aggression. I have some of the bluntest MFPers on my FL, but I would have to say the behavior that your posting history shows is appalling.... and that is coming from someone willing to own when she is "mean".

    I do not find the quotes text mean, but it is everything you seem to comment against in this thread.

    Sorry for the long winded posts.
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,725 Member
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    The Law school thread I think is... a terrible example of meanness on this site. At least, up to the OP's second post to the thread where he used humor to categorize all the responses and thank everyone alike. I don't know what happened to the thread after that. He was asked some excellent questions. If you're gonna blame law school for weight gain, how about working 100 hours per week as a first year? How will you be successful then? Owning up to our actions has often been the first step in many of our weight loss journeys. What is wrong with helping the OP get there? Weight loss isn't easy? Of course it's hard!! And sometimes that means having to be butt sore a little bit when you look at your own actions in the mirror and evaluate how you got here. How can you do things differently and avoid the same mistakes in the future.

    I have someone on my friend list, I know exactly what she's doing wrong and the changes she can make to lose weight. However I don't want to jeopardize a long term relationship we have and therefore have not said anything. Maybe she'll figure it out on her own in 3 or 10 years. Some of you complained about folks that go into hCG, I want to lose 50 lbs of weight in two months threads, etc and post bluntly. Know what I do when I see most of those? Roll my eyes and move onto the next thread. Think HARD about who the mean posters really are. And yes those of you with few [advice] post counts who know how it's done but have not shown it by your own compassionate helpful posts, you fall in the same bucket, too.

    Agree with some of the posters about kid gloves. You're really going to say we should be somebody's therapy on this site?? I mean come on, it's free but you get what you pay for, right? :bigsmile:

    Finally, I don't think [many of] the veterans are tired of the same posts over and over again. In fact, it seems they go in there repeatedly to answer questions
  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,899 Member
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    It's being pointed out before but bears repeating.

    Everything single person complaining about rudeness or un supportiveness has been here a number of years and have very few posts. I have never seen a single one of them giving advice, information, support. Never helped out a newbie. Just pop up occasionally to moan about meanies.

    Now the ones who are getting accused have thousands of posts. I see them every day giving fitness tips, advice on getting started, moral support, encouraging comments. Again and again, same people. For free. Because they want to help people.

    If MFP has changed well then good

    Umm, no.

    To disprove that, you can look at the number of posts I currently have, and while doing so you can look at the posts I've replied to. You are making a very broad assumption.

    And as said by other members in this thread, many lurk the forums and do not wish to participate after witnessing people being torn to shreds by "asking stupid questions," or not bending to the tune of others. There are no stupid questions.

    Facts are facts. If you burn more than you consume you will lose weight. But HOW you lose that weight is up to debate. There are so many variables. What works for some may not work for others. Some say yes to the 1200 cals a day diet, some say no. I've seen people have success both ways.

    There are elder mfp members who get annoyed at answering the same questions time and time again. I am a teacher by profession. That's what teachers do, new students come in, and you re-iterate the same knowledge year after year. Now even though I'm grown, there will be the 5 year old that will SWEAR to me 1+1=11. Can I make rude remarks to him because of that? No. When he does a test and fails to show the proper answer, can I stick a cat gif sticker on his paper? Patience, encouragement and time is needed to help guide him/her to the correct answer. With a stern hand, yes, but never in a way to make the student feel dumb, small etc etc.

    If you are not willing to have the time and patience to explain something to someone, why bother trying at all?
    And lastly, people will think what they will at the end of the day. If that student wants to think 1+1=11 for the rest of his life, so be it. I did my part, I tried, and sadly failed. That being said, he probably won't go very far. He'll figure that out for himself.

    So while we're in here discussing how to improve posters' posts, who do so out of their own good will are obviously not paid, should we talk about all the lousy teachers who are paid? I've never taught grade school, but there are so many mean teachers who obviously don't care about their students. I mean, I'm sure you're the perfectly patient teacher, right? :flowerforyou:
  • EvelineUK
    EvelineUK Posts: 97
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    You can be supportive without being fake-'nice'. You can be a motivator without having to rip an OP a new one. You can ask questions or make observations without burning someone to the ground.

    We all know we got overweight because we made bad choices. We're here to change that. Being nasty to someone who is finally ready to change their life around doesn't help at all.
  • delicious_cocktail
    delicious_cocktail Posts: 5,797 Member
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    You can be supportive without being fake-'nice'. You can be a motivator without having to rip an OP a new one. You can ask questions or make observations without burning someone to the ground.

    We all know we got overweight because we made bad choices. We're here to change that. Being nasty to someone who is finally ready to change their life around doesn't help at all.

    Would you like some advice?
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,725 Member
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    You can be supportive without being fake-'nice'. You can be a motivator without having to rip an OP a new one. You can ask questions or make observations without burning someone to the ground.

    We all know we got overweight because we made bad choices. We're here to change that. Being nasty to someone who is finally ready to change their life around doesn't help at all.

    Could someone explain exactly why saying "Law school didn't make you fat, your choices did" is nasty?

    I also assume in your next fifteen posts over the next year and half you'll show us how to do what you've explained via your own helpful posts???
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    So you are actively trying to break someone's morale as stated by you and don't see how that is perceived as mean?
    Other's "emotional weaknesses" are not your problem? So that means I can tell someone over the internet "go kill yourself," and if they do, I have no part in the blame because they are emotionally weak? So if you cry over 'x' and I don't cry over 'x' can I call you emotionally weak?

    Umm, ok...

    I think what she's saying is that trying to respond to posted questions in a manner that would *never offend anyone* is folly. There's someone who will get offended by anything. Hell, I can think of dozens of threads where the OP was thankful for the brutally honest responses because the finally realized what they were doing wrong....but someone lurking the thread was offended for them and sent reports to the mods. I'll get a thank you and a FR from the OP and an hour later get a warning from the mods.

    There's nothing that won't offend someone. If I make an egg sandwich and give it to a homeless person in my way to church, one person will call me a saint and another person will say I'm enabling lazy people while before participating in tired pagan rituals designed to exert control over the populace
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    But in regards to trolling... are you a troll? Trololololol
    You seem nice enough. You have an opinion, but you know what they say about opinons. They're like a$******. Everybody has one! And I think we went back and forth a bit, but I don't think you're mean.

    Don't let the smooth taste fool you. I'm the meanest, least helpful person on this site. Pretty sure I've never helped anyone nor contributed an honest response to any thread. I'm certain this is true because in threads like this lurkers come out of the woodwork and say so. MM can PM you and explain why.
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,399 Member
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    Bump---however I'm positive towards MFP, and wish the people complaining would do more to heip the newbies. Also, lurking isn't so bad---most of us do it and learn alot. Not everyone has to jump in if they are timid. If you wait long enough all your questions will be answered. :smile:
  • Slacker16
    Slacker16 Posts: 1,184 Member
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    I've been meaning to post this link forever:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjibEkDoXQc
    LOL, I found a personality test. Given that my highest score (Machiavellian) put me in the whopping 14th percentile, pretty sure I don't qualify as dark triad. But I'm just a big self centered manipulative meanie so who knows.... I could be lying.
    Found it too. Turns out that I'm neither narcissistic nor machiavellian, that was complimentary. Nobody's perfect though.
  • LilynEdensmom
    LilynEdensmom Posts: 612 Member
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    People have lost the meaning of the word tact...and at least the way I look at it is if they have to be asshats to some stranger online than their life is pretty sad b/c its the only way they can make themselves feel good...The internet gives people balls they wouldn't have in real life.
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,399 Member
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    Bye the bye there was a lurker a couple of days back who thanked everyone for all the great things learned and others came forward (out of lurkerdom to say the same). Not all lurkers are "afraid" to post, sometimes they just don't have anything to say.
  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,899 Member
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    You can be supportive without being fake-'nice'. You can be a motivator without having to rip an OP a new one. You can ask questions or make observations without burning someone to the ground.

    We all know we got overweight because we made bad choices. We're here to change that. Being nasty to someone who is finally ready to change their life around doesn't help at all.

    Could someone explain exactly why saying "Law school didn't make you fat, your choices did" is nasty?

    I also assume in your next fifteen posts over the next year and half you'll show us how to do what you've explained via your own helpful posts???

    Honestly, I get that some people are hyper-sensitive, but I'm beyond amused at future lawyers complaining about mean people and long hours in law school. As an attorney, I'm left just shaking my head knowing that the poster is in for a very rude surprise the first time a judge dresses him/her down and all he/she can say is "yes, your honor" or when, at 3:00 a.m., he/she is sitting around a conference table while the other side loses it and tells them either take the offer or the deal dies. There is always room for improvement when it comes to manners, but a thick skin also goes a hell of a long way to making the world easier to live in.

    In the end, all these threads do is waste everyone's time. The posters who actually do contribute to the forums by giving helpful advice are distracted by defending themselves, and the whiners simply whine. They don't contribute. If someone wants change then they need to stand up and actually contribute.
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,399 Member
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    People have lost the meaning of the word tact...and at least the way I look at it is if they have to be asshats to some stranger online than their life is pretty sad b/c its the only way they can make themselves feel good...The internet gives people balls they wouldn't have in real life.

    :noway:
  • delicious_cocktail
    delicious_cocktail Posts: 5,797 Member
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    People have lost the meaning of the word tact...and at least the way I look at it is if they have to be asshats to some stranger online than their life is pretty sad b/c its the only way they can make themselves feel good...The internet gives people balls they wouldn't have in real life.

    Did you really just start with tact and then make an asshat sad life testicle soufflé?

    It's funny because some people I would trust enough to have done that intentionally for comedic effect.

    You, I think, are dead serious.
  • agrafina
    agrafina Posts: 128 Member
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    In all my time on MFP (I recently made a new account for myself), I don't think MFP has changed for the worse. The advice has gotten better, and there is less misinformation floating around. Since I joined MFP again last month, I have seen two forum posts (and I spend a lot of time lurking) where people were flat out rude, apart from the seemingly never ending train of mean people threads, with no provocation. Two posts where people were deliberately mean without question. That is it. For an Internet forum, that is incredible. Do people get frustrated when their feedback is ignored? Yes. Do they get even snarkier or more sarcastic when they run into a brick wall of excuses, denial, and anger that they aren't validating some poster's bad idea? Yes. Is that mean? I don't think so.

    Most of what passes for "mean" in MFP is sarcasm, snark, and bluntness. As some have pointed out, emotionally fragile people may interpret this as mean, or disagreement with ideas as mean, taking comments personally when people respond negatively to the ideas that they have put forth, as though thinking something was a bad idea (or stupid) is an insult to them. It isn't. As a formerly emotionally fragile person, if you need sunshine and rainbows and unicorns, most internet forums are not the right place for you. Especially not ones related to a topic with as much baggage as weight loss and eating patterns where opinions are strong and misinformation and bad ideas are rampant. It is the ideal place for emotionally fragile people to feel brutalized. This is not an appropriate place for therapy. If you can't handle communication that lacks facial and voice expression, then you shouldn't be participating in a communication medium on a subject as loaded as weight that is nearly completely devoid expression markers.

    I for one value the "mean people" with no tact because I don't need sunshine blown up my a**. I'd rather get straight information, and if I'm doing something stupid, be told. I'm an adult and can handle directness. I don't take it personally, and more often than not like the snark and sarcasm, since I lean that way myself. But when I was depressed and emotionally fragile? I read the forums, and there is no way I would ever have posted, since I wasn't emotionally strong enough to handle snark, sarcasm,bluntness, and disagreement without taking it personally. You have to know yourself and know the forum. Not every forum is right for everyone.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    My take on the infamous Law School thread:

    It got rough in there. I thought the OP was joking in his OP but the first response answered him seriously (but truthfully) and then 95% of the thread after that was posters going back and forth at each other about blame and responsibility. It was more infighting than outright putting the OP down IMO. Still wouldn't have been any fun to be the OP tho.

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there are hundreds upon hundreds of posts on this site every single day where that doesn't happen. I guess I just don't understand this mindset of, "Well, that one time, something happened and I didn't like it, SO THIS WHOLE ENTIRE SITE IS BROKEN." Law School thread is what, two weeks old? How many years have been created in the meantime? How many people helped figure out a way to achieve their goals?

    If you're going to be read 800 threads and then be soooooo upset about the 1 thread that you didn't like, you're going to have a bad time.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    People have lost the meaning of the word tact...and at least the way I look at it is if they have to be asshats to some stranger online than their life is pretty sad b/c its the only way they can make themselves feel good...The internet gives people balls they wouldn't have in real life.

    The tact contained within this post literally, LITERALLY, leaps from the page.
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
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    People have lost the meaning of the word tact...and at least the way I look at it is if they have to be asshats to some stranger online than their life is pretty sad b/c its the only way they can make themselves feel good...The internet gives people balls they wouldn't have in real life.

    The tact contained within this post literally, LITERALLY, leaps from the page.

    Seriously. :noway:
  • delicious_cocktail
    delicious_cocktail Posts: 5,797 Member
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    If you're going to be read 800 threads and then be soooooo upset about the 1 thread that you didn't like, you're going to have a bad time.

    Stop pretending to be helpful, dapple.

    Because if even one MFP member goes to bed with a sad, no matter the reason, we have failed.

    I would rather not help 800 people if helping them meant that even one would go to bed sad.

    These are real people with real feelings! If you had one extraordinarily stupid child in a classroom, would you not hold everyone back until he understood that week's concept? Would you really just let him fail for the selfish gratification of helping thirty others?

    How does it even feel to not have a soul? Is your hatred for children the only thing left keeping you warm?

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