Judging people and their weight
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If I am wrong (which happens:grumble: don't tell my husband :noway: ) your medical reports should be sent to the WHO asap, they could maybe use the info to help people in starving areas subsist and remain healthy at a lower caloric intake.
Well, therein lies the fallicy "subsit and REMAIN HEALTHY". Yeah, no one's arguing that while those symptomes were happening that they were healthy. At the point in time that I had gained quickly I was in renal failure. I don't think even in starving areas they want to gain weight only to die because their kidneys and adrenal glands aren't working.
It was not just in reference to you.....but if you gained 60lbs of fat in 3 months that would be 3,500 calories x 60=210,000 then divided by 92 (we'll say two 31 day months) = 2282.61 calories over TDEE per day. That would mean for the laws of energy to stand you had a TDEE in the negative and ALL calories you consumed turned to fat.
A calorie is a unit of energy, energy can NOT be created out of nothing or disappear.... It must be converted.
Renal failure can cause mass water retention..... Its what the kidneys do so a lot of the weight could have been water.
Also anything that can rewrite the laws of energy, would benefit humanity. If they looked at someone that gains on 1000 per day in a coma then that would mean they could maintain organ function at a much lower rate than currently believed. Also no more energy crisis if energy could just appear :drinker:
I will need to find the article but even the most extreme and rare metabolic disorders only lower BMR by about 10%. ***//strike through obviously doesn't work :grumble: //***
I also meant by healthy, not have system failure ie: not die.........in reference to crisis situations this is the main goal.
Eta: having trouble finding the one study but.....
http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people.html#ref1
This articles has the studies linked and does a good job of explaining why most are not the special snowflakes that defy science that they think they are.
Also my view is that medical, psychological and medications can make weight loss extremely difficult but the laws of energy still stand and calorie in vs out is all that matters for the actual numbers.
I know you weren't just referencing to me. I was just pointing out that if someone is going to claim special snowflake status for whatever reason, by definition, that person isn't healthy.0 -
In all honesty, who on here has medical issues because of their weight and how many of those issues will be reduced or go away when then extra weight is gone? I am asking this because most of the people iknow that are obese have a lot of health issues but more physically fit people in my family and friends only have your general wear and tear issues that come with age.
I have PCOS and my symptoms will improve by losing weight. Every disease will improve by losing weight. Plus all the other little aches and pains that you don't realize your having.
The people who are 'mean' on this thread are being honest. We were all there and understand. Hell I was back in that mindset not long ago. It's damn easy to get back into. But making excuses doesn't help.0 -
In all honesty, who on here has medical issues because of their weight and how many of those issues will be reduced or go away when then extra weight is gone? I am asking this because most of the people iknow that are obese have a lot of health issues but more physically fit people in my family and friends only have your general wear and tear issues that come with age.
I was a thin but healthy 97 lbs my whole life. Very fast metabolism, couldn't gain a pound no matter how much I ate. Didn't have any medical problems then except exercise-induced syncope, a heart murmur, Osgood schlatter, and Chondromalacia patella.
Gained 111 lbs within 3 years after starting antidepressants and developed insulin resistance, hypoglycemia, high thyroid (specifically TSH), high cortisol, vestibular migraines, severe GERD, had a large cyst on my colon, and was hospitalized in January for tachycardia where my heart rate was 205 bpm. Was diagnosed with supra-ventricular tachycardia then. Currently undergoing more cardiac tests to see what else is going on. Cardiologist thinks I might have Wolff-Parkinson White syndrome or mitral valve prolapse.0 -
I am a true believer that not everything is black and white, especially when disease comes into play. This last year, my friend, who eats in moderation, exercises, and has maintained a healthy weight, started putting on weight and ended up with 40 pounds extra within a few months time. She went to the doctor several times, and he told her it was her thyroid. To make a long story short, she and her husband did not take this doctor's word for it, and got a second opinion. She was referred to a cardiologist. In fact, my friend's husband said to bring her in immediately.
She failed every stress test, heart test, whatever test there is, which led to a determination that my friend had to have triple heart bypass surgery immediately. Once the surgery was completed, the cardiologist told my friend's husband that she had very close to death's door. In fact, 15 minutes close.
Isn't it a wonder that her weight dropped off almost immediately after she had surgery? My friend thought she was getting fat, but the cardiologist said that she had been retaining horrible fluid from the heart problem. The first doctor should have sen this, and he got an earful from my friend's husband about what happened.
So, while I would say that the majority of us do gain weight simply from eating more than we burn, but really, disease can do some really strange things to our bodies. If you're taking a medication, you're taking it due to illness or disease, or some type of disorder.
After my friend's situation, I'm not a disbeliever that disease can cause weight gain.0 -
Thanks for sharing your story. I have a lot of similarities to you regarding constantly gaining weight without the matching high calorie intake and despite consistent exercise. Since my teen years, I've had slender or regular size friends comment on how much less I eat than them and how much more physical activities I do than they do. But I remain 2 to 3 times their size despite my best efforts.BeckyGilbert4
This is a topic that's dear to my heart. I spent the better part of my life having Doctors tell me that it was my fault that I was fat. It wasn't until I was 325 lbs, and diabetic that I found a Doctor who said maybe there was another reason for it. I had a lot of test and eventually they found out that I had a tumor on my Pituitary (Cushings Disease). In short no matter how hard I worked at loosing weight (and I did) I would always gain weight as long as I had that tumor. The thing is that no one listened to me because they all said it was that I wasn't trying hard enough, and didn't want it enough. Working out 3 hours a day five days a week, and I gained weight, and it had to be what I was eating. Counting calories, counting fat, and countless weight loss efforts, and it still had to be something I was doing. It's all fine to say there are people who's choice is to be fat, but it's more harmful than you'll ever know when you assume people are doing that. I had the tumor out in 2012 and I dropped a lot of weight going from 325 to 245 in a year. My body is used to being fat now because it began when I was young but accelerated when I got pregnant in 2010. Since no one listened to me until 2012 I'll never know how long the tumor was there, and all because people and Doctors just wanted to dismiss me as Fat by choice. It is far kinder, and more productive not to jump to conclusions, and be supportive. For some people their weight isn't important, and it shouldn't be anyone's business but their own. For the others that are struggling mocking them and or stigmatizing them is not helpful, it's just destructive and spiteful.
I'm not saying that I have Cushings Disease but it's reassuring to know there may be a medical reason that just hasn't been discovered yet. So far doctor visits mean I always get a clean bill of health and attitude for my "obvious lying" about how much I eat.0 -
Of course diseases and drug have effects on the body, including it's weight.I am a true believer that not everything is black and white, especially when disease comes into play. This last year, my friend, who eats in moderation, exercises, and has maintained a healthy weight, started putting on weight and ended up with 40 pounds extra within a few months time. She went to the doctor several times, and he told her it was her thyroid. To make a long story short, she and her husband did not take this doctor's word for it, and got a second opinion. She was referred to a cardiologist. In fact, my friend's husband said to bring her in immediately.
She failed every stress test, heart test, whatever test there is, which led to a determination that my friend had to have triple heart bypass surgery immediately. Once the surgery was completed, the cardiologist told my friend's husband that she had very close to death's door. In fact, 15 minutes close.
Isn't it a wonder that her weight dropped off almost immediately after she had surgery? My friend thought she was getting fat, but the cardiologist said that she had been retaining horrible fluid from the heart problem. The first doctor should have sen this, and he got an earful from my friend's husband about what happened.
So, while I would say that the majority of us do gain weight simply from eating more than we burn, but really, disease can do some really strange things to our bodies. If you're taking a medication, you're taking it due to illness or disease, or some type of disorder.
After my friend's situation, I'm not a disbeliever that disease can cause weight gain.
This whole debate is stupid.
I'm glad they fixed your friend.
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I remember the exact time in my life, and meal I ate, when I felt a feeling of emptiness. I was ten years old, my mom made homemade burgers for dinner. I ate a whole burger, still had a feeling of emptiness and I asked for another one. Hence started my journey of emotional eating! I had just been through a tramatic event and I couldn't wrap my 10 year old mind around what happened to me...But according to some of you, I guess that night at the dinner table, I made a conscious effort to become fat...smh0
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Yep! Totally agree. I know that eating more than I burn makes me gain weight. However I decide that having a whole bag of chips, or a buttery pot of rice with cheese and bacon is more important than being smaller and feeling better? Well to me, that is choosing to be fat. I can't speak for everyone else, but I sure feel responsible for my actions. No one else got me this way.I don't think it's fair to say people "want" to be fat. No one really "wants" to be fat. People do however "choose" to be fat. I agree with all the issue you stated that can lead to becoming overweight but it is the individual's choice to allow those issues to dictate what they eat. All of those issues can be handled in ways other than eating. It is in our choices that we define ourselves.0 -
No, you weren't.Too bad I was on a strict diet from a dietician and endocrinologist, eating 1200-1300 calories a day, logging religiously, and playing demanding sports.
Yes, it did.So maybe your weight gain came from stuffing your face, but mine certainly didn't.0 -
It's true: we all make choices, and we are the product of our choices.
You can choose to judge other people because of the way they look, because you assume their weight is an indicator of their moral decrepitude. Or you can say to yourself "hey. You know what? Today I'm going to get up off my couch and NOT make assumptions about people because of their outward appearances! I'm going to assume everyone is going through their own struggle, and my own personal triumphs don't mean that I have to demean other people who haven't made the same choices I have!"
It's a choice: whether or not you choose to support other people's healthy choices and be compassionate when they fall short of their expectations for themself. Compassion, like any muscle, benefits from regular exercise. You could start with 20 reps of saying nice things to strangers, or spend 15 minutes practicing humility around others. Being consistent in your exercise of compassion will make it a habit, rather than a hardship.
You can also reflect upon whether your harsh judgment of others adds to the overall balance of goodness in the world. If it doesn't, you should probably make better choices. That's just the reality of the situation.
Once upon a time, I made fun of fat people and assumed they were all just gross slugs who didn't want to take care of themselves. It was just far too difficult to see them as other human beings, no better and no worse than me. It made me really happy to be mean to them, because I was terribly insecure and obsessed with personal appearance, because I thought being pretty on the outside meant I was pretty on the outside. But you know what? That was all just a bunch of bull**** excuses. I put in the time and effort needed to become a kinder human being, and I'm happier and healthier for it. Now I don't assume I know things about a person simply based on how much they weight, and I'm so much better off.
It's time for people to take responsibility for the way they judge others. Otherwise, we're never going to stop this epidemic of ****ishness which is such a moral problem in the United States today.0 -
It's true: we all make choices, and we are the product of our choices.
You can choose to judge other people because of the way they look, because you assume their weight is an indicator of their moral decrepitude. Or you can say to yourself "hey. You know what? Today I'm going to get up off my couch and NOT make assumptions about people because of their outward appearances! I'm going to assume everyone is going through their own struggle, and my own personal triumphs don't mean that I have to demean other people who haven't made the same choices I have!"
It's a choice: whether or not you choose to support other people's healthy choices and be compassionate when they fall short of their expectations for themself. Compassion, like any muscle, benefits from regular exercise. You could start with 20 reps of saying nice things to strangers, or spend 15 minutes practicing humility around others. Being consistent in your exercise of compassion will make it a habit, rather than a hardship.
You can also reflect upon whether your harsh judgment of others adds to the overall balance of goodness in the world. If it doesn't, you should probably make better choices. That's just the reality of the situation.
Once upon a time, I made fun of fat people and assumed they were all just gross slugs who didn't want to take care of themselves. It was just far too difficult to see them as other human beings, no better and no worse than me. It made me really happy to be mean to them, because I was terribly insecure and obsessed with personal appearance, because I thought being pretty on the outside meant I was pretty on the outside. But you know what? That was all just a bunch of bull**** excuses. I put in the time and effort needed to become a kinder human being, and I'm happier and healthier for it. Now I don't assume I know things about a person simply based on how much they weight, and I'm so much better off.
It's time for people to take responsibility for the way they judge others. Otherwise, we're never going to stop this epidemic of ****ishness which is such a moral problem in the United States today.
Well said.0 -
I remember the exact time in my life, and meal I ate, when I felt a feeling of emptiness. I was ten years old, my mom made homemade burgers for dinner. I ate a whole burger, still had a feeling of emptiness and I asked for another one. Hence started my journey of emotional eating! I had just been through a tramatic event and I couldn't wrap my 10 year old mind around what happened to me...But according to some of you, I guess that night at the dinner table, I made a conscious effort to become fat...smh
No, that's not the argument.0 -
I am a true believer that not everything is black and white, especially when disease comes into play. This last year, my friend, who eats in moderation, exercises, and has maintained a healthy weight, started putting on weight and ended up with 40 pounds extra within a few months time. She went to the doctor several times, and he told her it was her thyroid. To make a long story short, she and her husband did not take this doctor's word for it, and got a second opinion. She was referred to a cardiologist. In fact, my friend's husband said to bring her in immediately.
She failed every stress test, heart test, whatever test there is, which led to a determination that my friend had to have triple heart bypass surgery immediately. Once the surgery was completed, the cardiologist told my friend's husband that she had very close to death's door. In fact, 15 minutes close.
Isn't it a wonder that her weight dropped off almost immediately after she had surgery? My friend thought she was getting fat, but the cardiologist said that she had been retaining horrible fluid from the heart problem. The first doctor should have sen this, and he got an earful from my friend's husband about what happened.
So, while I would say that the majority of us do gain weight simply from eating more than we burn, but really, disease can do some really strange things to our bodies. If you're taking a medication, you're taking it due to illness or disease, or some type of disorder.
After my friend's situation, I'm not a disbeliever that disease can cause weight gain.
Technically, she didn't gain fat. She gained water weight, aka "retaining fluid" because her heart wasn't pumping correctly and the body sensed an initial decrease in blood pressure and had the kidneys hold onto extra water to restore that blood pressure.
There is a big difference between gaining fluid and gaining fat.
That being said, I'm do think there are RARE people who have medical issues that make maintaining a healthy weight much harder than the rest of us. But those people are RARE. The far majority of us are not special little snowflakes, even though we sometimes try to convince ourselves that we are, becausing facing the truth....as in...I ate myself to where I am now, and am responsible for my choices, is a very hard thing to do. But I don't think you can lose the weight without taking the responsibility first.
I'm not judging anyone, either. I have been fat my entire life. I work in a profession where being overweight is frowned upon. Being fat is hard, but we do have a choice in what we put in our mouths.0 -
If people in general were less worried about 1st impressions everyone would be under less preassure. You eat in the moment, just to fill that moment, never choose that moment to be fat. It's just a by-product of food. If being fat was a choice there wouldn't be so many fat people around :flowerforyou:0
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It's true: we all make choices, and we are the product of our choices.
You can choose to judge other people because of the way they look, because you assume their weight is an indicator of their moral decrepitude. Or you can say to yourself "hey. You know what? Today I'm going to get up off my couch and NOT make assumptions about people because of their outward appearances! I'm going to assume everyone is going through their own struggle, and my own personal triumphs don't mean that I have to demean other people who haven't made the same choices I have!"
It's a choice: whether or not you choose to support other people's healthy choices and be compassionate when they fall short of their expectations for themself. Compassion, like any muscle, benefits from regular exercise. You could start with 20 reps of saying nice things to strangers, or spend 15 minutes practicing humility around others. Being consistent in your exercise of compassion will make it a habit, rather than a hardship.
You can also reflect upon whether your harsh judgment of others adds to the overall balance of goodness in the world. If it doesn't, you should probably make better choices. That's just the reality of the situation.
Once upon a time, I made fun of fat people and assumed they were all just gross slugs who didn't want to take care of themselves. It was just far too difficult to see them as other human beings, no better and no worse than me. It made me really happy to be mean to them, because I was terribly insecure and obsessed with personal appearance, because I thought being pretty on the outside meant I was pretty on the outside. But you know what? That was all just a bunch of bull**** excuses. I put in the time and effort needed to become a kinder human being, and I'm happier and healthier for it. Now I don't assume I know things about a person simply based on how much they weight, and I'm so much better off.
It's time for people to take responsibility for the way they judge others. Otherwise, we're never going to stop this epidemic of ****ishness which is such a moral problem in the United States today.
Hi, cathuman. It's too bad you used to make fun of fat people. I never did, even when I was not overweight myself, because I knew that was obviously wrong. And it didn't really matter why people were fat or require a belief that most fat people can't help it and are powerless, which seems to be a bizarre notion by some today.
I AM puzzled that you seem to be interpreting comments that fat is not fated and that personal responsibility and choices--however understandable or in some cases even the right choices for the person at the time--is somehow a defense of treating fat people badly. I don't see how recognizing that we are not powerless automatons means that we should be treated badly or that anyone here is defending such treatment.
But enjoy your straw man!
Setting aside the medical cause discussion, which I do see as kind of an odd offshoot of the original discussion and not really the same topic (there are medical reasons for gaining weight whatever the specific cause and there the thing to do is get them treated and address the weight gain depending on the cause--sometimes focusing on the immediate cause is far more important and a symptom, but this is both rare wrt the broad problem of obesity and irrelevant to the question of how fat people should be treated or whether they should hate themselves, because of course they shouldn't), the original post was that people are fat because they are making choices. It's a good way to get people to see how it's not just happening to them, how even psychological issues are things they are involved in, that there's a trade off involved in the behavior. I think it's necessary to understand this to make it possible to change. The reaction of ooh, yuck, of course I don't WANT to be disgusting and fat, not MY fault--not talking about the medical aside here--proves the importance of the initial point.0 -
You should have bolded this entire part but mainly this part or did you miss the increase in appetite part?A decrease in brain glucose will activate other portions of the brain that release proteins, which stimulate food intake. When this happens, an increase in body weight is inevitable at this point.
Not picking on you specifically, I just keep seeing this. I think most of us get it - the meds cause increase in appetite, not weight gain. What are some suggestions, though, for folks who must take meds that increase their appetite. Its very difficult to get through a day in a calorie deficit when one is hungrier than their calorie deficit allows. I KNOW we, in general, still need to eat in a deficit but perhaps some suggestions might actually take this debate in a helpful direction. Sorry if its already been posted.0 -
You should have bolded this entire part but mainly this part or did you miss the increase in appetite part?A decrease in brain glucose will activate other portions of the brain that release proteins, which stimulate food intake. When this happens, an increase in body weight is inevitable at this point.
Not picking on you specifically, I just keep seeing this. I think most of us get it - the meds cause increase in appetite, not weight gain. What are some suggestions, though, for folks who must take meds that increase their appetite. Its very difficult to get through a day in a calorie deficit when one is hungrier than their calorie deficit allows. I KNOW we, in general, still need to eat in a deficit but perhaps some suggestions might actually take this debate in a helpful direction. Sorry if its already been posted.
Her suggestion would be to "suck it up buttercup"0 -
I don't see how recognizing that we are not powerless automatons means that we should be treated badly or that anyone here is defending such treatment.
But enjoy your straw man!
No, we only have lots of stuff implying that people that suffer from something are just lazy, like this"
" A lot of people don't want to be poor either, but don't lift a finger to educate themselves and invest their money wisely. If you want something badly enough then you work for it. Period. "
and people like itsbasschick have pointed out the cruelty and bad faith assumptions (assuming everyone is lying and whining when they have reasons they can't exercise) of user's statements:how critical of you. i used to work 16 hour days 7 days a week. after meals, a shower and some cleaning, i didn't even have enough time for 6 hours sleep a day.
why does what other people do, don't do or say bother you?what bothers me the most is people that have excuses....I dont have time to exercise, my back hurts. my feet hurt, I have this and that wrong with me...all bs
Straw man? Treated badly? Fat people are being treated badly right here in this thread. When you imply that they're all lying, lazy whiners who make up excuses not to exercise then yes, you are treating them bad. When you act as if everyone has the same set of circumstances, and poor people are poor because of lazyness, and fat people fat because of laziness, then you are treating (poor) and fat people bad.0 -
In all honesty, who on here has medical issues because of their weight and how many of those issues will be reduced or go away when then extra weight is gone? I am asking this because most of the people iknow that are obese have a lot of health issues but more physically fit people in my family and friends only have your general wear and tear issues that come with age.
This is true, too...a lot of health issues manifest themselves when one is overweight. However, there are also weight issues which happen because of medical ones. It's a double whammy when one has to deal with both, and my heart goes out to all of you who do!
The highest my scale ever got before my health issues was 156. I was in my mid-30's and 5'6" tall. I seriously buckled down and got down to 117. I had my last child at the age of 41, and couldn't seem to drop the weight. Not too long after, I discovered I had a slow progressing form of Muscular Dystrophy, which also caused scoliosis. I wear braces to keep from tripping and falling when I walk. I still got out there and walked, losing 33 pounds. When the lower back pain started, I quit exercising. Of course, the weight came back on, plus extra. I'm sure it's what added to the stress on my hips, which were out of alignment from the spine, all stemming from the Charcot-Marie-Tooth Disease.
This is my second time around on MFP, my beginning weight was 204 and I'm now 5'4". I'm starting this journey with CMT, arthritis, and sleep apnea...which also attributes to weight gain. From the sound of things, I've had the apnea for decades; even when I was slim. I'm addressing my medical issues and watching what I eat because at the moment, it's all I can do. Once the pain is under control, the plan is to begin exercising again. Mine is a unique set of circumstances. I know I need to lose weight, as it puts extra pressure on overly taxed joints. Weight loss won't cure my medical issues, but will help in the prevention of more.
I'm thankful for this site. You're a great group of people with a lot of knowledge and support to give. Here's to a healthier life for all of us! :drinker:0 -
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You are correct, it was water weight rather than fat. However, she didn't know that and her doctor was pretty stupid not to check her out further. This situation is very rare indeed, and I would say that 99% of the time we gain because we eat too much.I am a true believer that not everything is black and white, especially when disease comes into play. This last year, my friend, who eats in moderation, exercises, and has maintained a healthy weight, started putting on weight and ended up with 40 pounds extra within a few months time. She went to the doctor several times, and he told her it was her thyroid. To make a long story short, she and her husband did not take this doctor's word for it, and got a second opinion. She was referred to a cardiologist. In fact, my friend's husband said to bring her in immediately.
She failed every stress test, heart test, whatever test there is, which led to a determination that my friend had to have triple heart bypass surgery immediately. Once the surgery was completed, the cardiologist told my friend's husband that she had very close to death's door. In fact, 15 minutes close.
Isn't it a wonder that her weight dropped off almost immediately after she had surgery? My friend thought she was getting fat, but the cardiologist said that she had been retaining horrible fluid from the heart problem. The first doctor should have sen this, and he got an earful from my friend's husband about what happened.
So, while I would say that the majority of us do gain weight simply from eating more than we burn, but really, disease can do some really strange things to our bodies. If you're taking a medication, you're taking it due to illness or disease, or some type of disorder.
After my friend's situation, I'm not a disbeliever that disease can cause weight gain.
Technically, she didn't gain fat. She gained water weight, aka "retaining fluid" because her heart wasn't pumping correctly and the body sensed an initial decrease in blood pressure and had the kidneys hold onto extra water to restore that blood pressure.
There is a big difference between gaining fluid and gaining fat.
That being said, I'm do think there are RARE people who have medical issues that make maintaining a healthy weight much harder than the rest of us. But those people are RARE. The far majority of us are not special little snowflakes, even though we sometimes try to convince ourselves that we are, becausing facing the truth....as in...I ate myself to where I am now, and am responsible for my choices, is a very hard thing to do. But I don't think you can lose the weight without taking the responsibility first.
I'm not judging anyone, either. I have been fat my entire life. I work in a profession where being overweight is frowned upon. Being fat is hard, but we do have a choice in what we put in our mouths.
However, this thread is about judging people and their weight. Next time we look at someone and think, boy that person could cut down on some calories, think again because there might be more to the story than that.
Finally, it is true that 99% of the time we get fat because we put too much food in our mouths. This is what happened to me, and I was fat my entire life up until 40 when I decided not to put so much in my mouth. Then I started the "excessive fork to mouth movement" again and put on 30 pounds. Now I'm at my ideal weight and have been maintaining.0 -
I don't see how recognizing that we are not powerless automatons means that we should be treated badly or that anyone here is defending such treatment.
But enjoy your straw man!
No, we only have lots of stuff implying that people that suffer from something are just lazy, like this"
" A lot of people don't want to be poor either, but don't lift a finger to educate themselves and invest their money wisely. If you want something badly enough then you work for it. Period. "
That's a back and forth to comments that in essence say "I have no control because [insert reasons]." As I see it, the first post set out the position that people who are overweight (outside of medical reasons, which I don't want to get into) are overweight because of choices they make. In response, we have lots of people jumping in saying that that obviously truthful statement is MEAN and not true, because of course no one WANTS to be overweight. At that, the point is made again that that there are consequences to choices that are not wanted--I'd like to blow off work responsibilities I don't like, but don't want to be fired, but if I blow off those responsibilities I'm making a decision to get fired (or assume the serious risk of that) regardless of what I WANT. I WANT to be able to eat every tasty treat or gourmet meal I have an opportunity to (and I'd kind of like to be able to drink excellent wine with it) and not gain weight and stay super healthy and have no negative repercussions at all, but that's kind of irrelevant, because it's not reasonably possible.
In frustration with the "I can't choose something I don't want to have happen," people are making comments like the one you pointed to. I don't personally think laziness is the broader issue, but it's obvious that most people making that argument are talking in large part about their own personal choices also, not--as has been falsely asserted--just insulting fat people. They are talking about coming to a realization about how they had chosen or were choosing a path that allowed the consequences they did not like, and deciding to change that.
Plus, I've been extremely clear that I am not "blaming" fat people or calling them (us) lazy and even that a lot of the tradeoffs made, while still tradeoffs, not something over which you have no control, are perfectly reasonable tradeoffs from a personal perspective. And yet the blanket generalization would seem to apply to my posts too.
So sure seems like a straw man to me. Especially when compared to the poster's former disgusting behavior insulting others for their personal appearance.Straw man? Treated badly? Fat people are being treated badly right here in this thread. When you imply that they're all lying, lazy whiners who make up excuses not to exercise then yes, you are treating them bad.
Um, I haven't, and you don't need to exercise to lose weight, but most people who don't exercise are, in fact, capable of doing so. They just choose not to. Again, it seems to me that you are trying to twist comments that say people make choices, that they aren't just automatons to whom things happen, bad or good, into an insult, but it's not. What's wrong and sad is this denial of personal responsibility, that we all have choices. IMO, being fat (or eating more than maintenance) is actually not such a terrible choice. There are far worse ones. It's those who insist that they couldn't possibly have avoided being fat and can't possibly change it, no matter what, it just is, who seem to me to be saying that it's so, so terrible.
This is helping me understand why the "addiction" model is so popular on the forums, although of course "can't change it" isn't actually a legitimate excuse for addicts either.When you act as if everyone has the same set of circumstances, and poor people are poor because of lazyness, and fat people fat because of laziness, then you are treating (poor) and fat people bad.
Please point to the post of mine where I mentioned laziness, because I'm pretty sure I didn't. YOU did. That said, there are choices that poor people made that contributed to their situation and choices that fat people did (and are making) that do as well. Since it can be hard to see the choices--to be empowered--I think it's important to help with this, societally, to help people see their options and opportunities. And I know at times I've failed to see mine. IMO, it's the people saying that there are choices that determine whether you are overweight or not (or that can help you get out of poverty or not) who are doing this, especially if they are willing to follow through with tools and constructive advice. It's the people who say "right, poor you, you can't help it, it must be terrible to be you" who are being destructive and encouraging an attitude that HURTS people.0 -
That said, there are choices that poor people made that contributed to their situation and choices that fat people did (and are making) that do as well. Since it can be hard to see the choices--to be empowered--I think it's important to help with this, societally, to help people see their options and opportunities. And I know at times I've failed to see mine. IMO, it's the people saying that there are choices that determine whether you are overweight or not (or that can help you get out of poverty or not) who are doing this, especially if they are willing to follow through with tools and constructive advice. It's the people who say "right, poor you, you can't help it, it must be terrible to be you" who are being destructive and encouraging an attitude that HURTS people.
Exactly. When did "personal responsibility" become a bad word?:grumble:
Just because we suggest that people become educated about their options and make better choices, because we lay the change they want in their lap and suggest it is THEM who must change it, we are the bad guy. We aren't saying that people who don't do this are bad people. I, for one, have been in that exact spot. I realized what needed to change and am making it happen. I wasn't a bad person. I became personally responsible for my health to the best of my ability. I'm now empowered. Still fat, but shrinking.
If others who are fat choose to not make the effort (for whatever reason), they aren't bad people, but it is still on them to fix their situation to the best of their ability. Suggesting that this is something they need to do for themselves, that it is their RESPONSIBILITY, is reality and not worth of vilification. What is, IS.
Doctors need to get their crap together. Educate and helpfully motivate patients. Society needs to be more supportive, sure. But there will always me mean turds who hurt your feelings. Regardless, it's on the individual to make changes. No one else can do it for them!0 -
When I was fat I said to myself, I like eating, I don't like working out, so I'm "ok" being fat because I'm not willing to do anything to change it.
My oldest sister always told me it was not ok to be fat and happy. Less money, less opportunity, society looks down on you, but I decided I was "fat and happy" because I wasn't willing to do anything to change it, and I really was. She's still overweight and unhappy about it. Don't know what that says about outlook.
That's why I never considered surgery. I think if you are not going to change inside the surgery will fail and if you are ready to change inside you don't need the surgery anyway,0 -
When I was fat I said to myself, I like eating, I don't like working out, so I'm "ok" being fat because I'm not willing to do anything to change it.
My oldest sister always told me it was not ok to be fat and happy. Less money, less opportunity, society looks down on you, but I decided I was "fat and happy" because I wasn't willing to do anything to change it, and I really was. She's still overweight and unhappy about it. Don't know what that says about outlook.
That's why I never considered surgery. I think if you are not going to change inside the surgery will fail and if you are ready to change inside you don't need the surgery anyway,
I love how you worded this.0
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