why don't the low carb folks believe in CICO?
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ceoverturf wrote: »*taps fingers impatiently*
I'm already running out of popcorn here!
oh you guys….
Sorry, I eat what I want, carbs and all. But I'm glad to see you ndj1979 because I wanted to thank you! You posted something a few months back that debunked the whole breakfast eating bull. I've been doing leangains 18/6 for 2 months now (since you educated me) and I've never been happier while restricting calories. Seriously happy. My family thinks so too. I know it's different for everyone but I had never, ever heard anyone say it. CICO, just all in one sitting is perfect for me! {{Hugs}} internet person I don't really know.
Enlighten me please?0 -
I'm losing faith in CICO.
See, there's no actual studies to back up the commonly quoted "3500 calories = 1 pound of fat". Here, have a bunch of study results for low-fat versus low-carb diets. http://www.lifetime-weightloss.com/storage/Low-Carb vs Low-Fat Study Comparisons.pdf
I don't believe in it because it's wrong. Just like we turned out to be wrong about fat. Etc. Etc. Different types of calories have different effects, 100 calories of chips is different than 100 calories of lettuce. I have days where I eat a boiled egg and an orange and lose nothing, and then days where I gorge myself senseless on Indian buffet food (since I'm gluten-free, it's basically meat, veggies, and fat)... and then drop 5 pounds. WHAT? That doesn't fit calories-in-calories-out. 'Cause of stuff like metabolisms. I'm no dietitian. I'll tell people to "eat less, count your calories, you're probably eating more than you think"... because it's often true. But our bodies are weird and complex things that we don't necessarily understand everything about just yet.
Anyway, I lift weights and I don't eat a ton of carbs. I try to keep it under 80. I don't calorie count, I don't meticulously track... I put things in when I remember to. And I'm losing weight at a rate that satisfies me... 1-2 pounds a week. My body isn't the same as your body. What works for ME to lose weight... might not work for you. I found a study somewhere and I can't find it now... basically people with glucose resistance had higher success with low-carb, and people who weren't on the track to diabetes, had more success with low-fat diets in the study.
It'd be nice if weight loss was just math. But it isn't.
This is again going back to that HOW you get to a calorie deficit can be individual but the fact that you are losing means you are in a calorie deficit.
Also, plenty of people lose weight without tracking. However, when people are cutting calories and not losing week after week, then tracking and measuring could be beneficial so they can see what they are actually eating.
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To be kicked out of ketosis it takes more than eating carbs one time. You might want to look at a cyclical ketogenic diet for more details
Would I be able to eat a serving at night of Ben & Jerry's Half Baked ice cream?blktngldhrt wrote: »
This was my other thought. I follow the reddit/keto boards and I always read that anything under 50 g of carbs as long as it fits is fine. I mean unless it interferes with your goals. Or if you are lower in carbs. Idk this low carb stuff is giving me a headache, but I have no gastric issues right now so I shall stick with it. Ugh.blktngldhrt wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
You can find any kind of diet book on amazon. No one here is recommending a HCLF diet (I'd hate it), but there are people on MFP all about the raw 80-10-10 stuff, and plenty of diet books for plenty of different kinds of diets that are HCLF.
I don't at all disagree that LCHF works, but this is the kind of post that we've been responding to that Mel seems to want to dismiss (I would to if I were her, since she seems extremely sensible and to have a good understanding of how different diets work for different people). The point I and others are making is that LCHF is not the best diet ever and doesn't work for EVERYONE. It would not work for me, whereas balanced macros do (balance depending on what my TDEE is and how much activity I'm doing). You may eat fewer calories doing LCHF (if only because you are using that to cut out trigger foods that for you happen to be processed carbs), but that's not so for everyone, and if you are doing it to cut out foods that tempt you (as opposed to dealing with satiety issues) I'm frankly skeptical about whether there's any benefit long term.
Long term, not having big bags of chips and cookies and pretzels, and half-gallon containers of ice cream in my house, have worked out very well for me long-term. Yes, I admit it - I lack willpower. And so do most people.
I've also dumped cereal because the amount I need to eat for breakfast is 2.5 times the serving suggested on the box. My breakfast "diet food" is one egg, a strip of bacon, and some grilled onions.
I could care less about balanced macros. My grandparents lived past 90 at the right weight without knowing their balanced macros. But they ate good food, and had no junk in the house.
PS - I get most of my carbs from fruit and vegetables.
What are your ratios if you eat fruit then? Fruit has sugar?
The sugar I'm getting from fruit is a lot less than the sugar I was getting from cookies and ice cream.
It's entirely possible to control the amount of cookies and ice cream you eat without being LCHF. In fact, amusingly enough, the majority of calories in both are probably from fat, so HCLF people probably aren't eating lots of either.
There's a lot less sugar in potatoes or oatmeal or whole wheat pasta, to pick three major sources of carbs I've had this week, than in fruit (which I've also had, also ice cream, for full disclosure, which I easily can eat a serving of). So not really sure why you are making the discussion about "sugar."
You also didn't answer the question Mel asked.
OK. How about the calories I am getting from fruit is a lot less than the calories I used to get from cookies, cake, chips, pretzels, ice cream and other junk (which I still eat by the way, but at a reduction of about 90% from my previous levels).
I'm sure that's true, but I don't see what it has to do with the discussion or with your claim that LCHF works better than other ways to diet (lots of books on amazon, no books on HCLF, people in general just eat less on LCHF, etc.).
That's my confusion Onlythetruth. You talk about low carbs and about all these LCHF books, but you eat fruit and still eat ice cream, cake, etc. I don't really see that as LCHF...probably eating a balanced diet (the sense of what people eat). Even if you cut down, I just wonder how much you cut if you consider yourself low carb.
You can't eat fruit on low carb? There are also low carb ice cream and baked goods recipes.
too many rules...
Rules? Keep your macros at 5% net carb 20% protein and 75% fat..give or take a few percent for each (whatever works best)..drink enough fluids and keep your sodium up. Done.
How much cardio you wanna do? Anything is possible. The question is if it's worth it.
Why would he have to do cardio to eat ice cream?
To be keto level of low carb (the ratio he quoted) and eat full sugar ice cream, he would need to have room for enough fat and protein to offset the carbs. 1/2c serving of Half Baked has 32g net carbs. That's 128 calories of carbs. If those were the only carbs he had for his entire day, he'd need to be at 2560 calories to stay at 5% carbs. Since he probably would want something besides ice cream in the carb category all day, he'd have to go up an additional 76 calories of fat and protein for each additional single carb.
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We are just going to assume that when eating fruit and desserts on LCHF you are eating within your limits.
Well no one said anything about going to eat an orange, but you can have fruit, ice cream, and other desserts while on keto.blktngldhrt wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
You can find any kind of diet book on amazon. No one here is recommending a HCLF diet (I'd hate it), but there are people on MFP all about the raw 80-10-10 stuff, and plenty of diet books for plenty of different kinds of diets that are HCLF.
I don't at all disagree that LCHF works, but this is the kind of post that we've been responding to that Mel seems to want to dismiss (I would to if I were her, since she seems extremely sensible and to have a good understanding of how different diets work for different people). The point I and others are making is that LCHF is not the best diet ever and doesn't work for EVERYONE. It would not work for me, whereas balanced macros do (balance depending on what my TDEE is and how much activity I'm doing). You may eat fewer calories doing LCHF (if only because you are using that to cut out trigger foods that for you happen to be processed carbs), but that's not so for everyone, and if you are doing it to cut out foods that tempt you (as opposed to dealing with satiety issues) I'm frankly skeptical about whether there's any benefit long term.
Long term, not having big bags of chips and cookies and pretzels, and half-gallon containers of ice cream in my house, have worked out very well for me long-term. Yes, I admit it - I lack willpower. And so do most people.
I've also dumped cereal because the amount I need to eat for breakfast is 2.5 times the serving suggested on the box. My breakfast "diet food" is one egg, a strip of bacon, and some grilled onions.
I could care less about balanced macros. My grandparents lived past 90 at the right weight without knowing their balanced macros. But they ate good food, and had no junk in the house.
PS - I get most of my carbs from fruit and vegetables.
What are your ratios if you eat fruit then? Fruit has sugar?
The sugar I'm getting from fruit is a lot less than the sugar I was getting from cookies and ice cream.
It's entirely possible to control the amount of cookies and ice cream you eat without being LCHF. In fact, amusingly enough, the majority of calories in both are probably from fat, so HCLF people probably aren't eating lots of either.
There's a lot less sugar in potatoes or oatmeal or whole wheat pasta, to pick three major sources of carbs I've had this week, than in fruit (which I've also had, also ice cream, for full disclosure, which I easily can eat a serving of). So not really sure why you are making the discussion about "sugar."
You also didn't answer the question Mel asked.
OK. How about the calories I am getting from fruit is a lot less than the calories I used to get from cookies, cake, chips, pretzels, ice cream and other junk (which I still eat by the way, but at a reduction of about 90% from my previous levels).
I'm sure that's true, but I don't see what it has to do with the discussion or with your claim that LCHF works better than other ways to diet (lots of books on amazon, no books on HCLF, people in general just eat less on LCHF, etc.).
That's my confusion Onlythetruth. You talk about low carbs and about all these LCHF books, but you eat fruit and still eat ice cream, cake, etc. I don't really see that as LCHF...probably eating a balanced diet (the sense of what people eat). Even if you cut down, I just wonder how much you cut if you consider yourself low carb.
You can't eat fruit on low carb? There are also low carb ice cream and baked goods recipes.
I don't because my ratios are more at keto level. I would eat some berries here and there but not go eating an orange.
Well an orange is a fruit.
Right, but not just the standard baked desserts you can buy at the grocery store or any ol ice cream. I don't know about you but I typically didn't stock my cabinet with coconut flour before low carbing.
Whether you had coconut flour in your pantry before or after doesn't matter.
...and I think that us eating low carb are smart enough to realize we are not talking about the typical grocery store brought baked desserts. I mean my Publix really doesn't have any low carb items in the bakery section. You can however purchase low carb ice cream.
To each their own on how they approach this WOE.
I wouldn't assume when that person said cake,chips, pretzels, ice cream, cookies it was necessarily low carb cake/ice cream/cookies/chips. That person can eat whatever way they want, but I'm not sure if it really is LCHF is the point.
Among the reasons I'm skeptical that poster is really coming from a LCHF POV. She explained her reason for doing it as that she couldn't go nuts on Doritos or ice cream, because she didn't keep them in the house. It's a pretty extreme way to deal with a few trigger foods. Not because LCHF is extreme, but because if the issue is trigger foods and "junk" (as was stated) you can simply cut out "junk" (however you define it).
She said she didn't care about "balance" (when I'd said something about the fact that you can have balanced macros and not eat cereal or McD's if that's your preference, and in fact it happens to be mine) and then went off on how her grandparents lived to 95 didn't care about balance, but just didn't eat "junk." That doesn't sound like it's about carbs. I'd bet that few 95 year olds spent most of their life on LCHF. My own grandparents on my mother's side had a farm and ate accordingly, and I'd bet they ate higher carb than me on average.0 -
blktngldhrt wrote: »
Would I be able to eat a serving at night of Ben & Jerry's Half Baked ice cream?blktngldhrt wrote: »
This was my other thought. I follow the reddit/keto boards and I always read that anything under 50 g of carbs as long as it fits is fine. I mean unless it interferes with your goals. Or if you are lower in carbs. Idk this low carb stuff is giving me a headache, but I have no gastric issues right now so I shall stick with it. Ugh.blktngldhrt wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
You can find any kind of diet book on amazon. No one here is recommending a HCLF diet (I'd hate it), but there are people on MFP all about the raw 80-10-10 stuff, and plenty of diet books for plenty of different kinds of diets that are HCLF.
I don't at all disagree that LCHF works, but this is the kind of post that we've been responding to that Mel seems to want to dismiss (I would to if I were her, since she seems extremely sensible and to have a good understanding of how different diets work for different people). The point I and others are making is that LCHF is not the best diet ever and doesn't work for EVERYONE. It would not work for me, whereas balanced macros do (balance depending on what my TDEE is and how much activity I'm doing). You may eat fewer calories doing LCHF (if only because you are using that to cut out trigger foods that for you happen to be processed carbs), but that's not so for everyone, and if you are doing it to cut out foods that tempt you (as opposed to dealing with satiety issues) I'm frankly skeptical about whether there's any benefit long term.
Long term, not having big bags of chips and cookies and pretzels, and half-gallon containers of ice cream in my house, have worked out very well for me long-term. Yes, I admit it - I lack willpower. And so do most people.
I've also dumped cereal because the amount I need to eat for breakfast is 2.5 times the serving suggested on the box. My breakfast "diet food" is one egg, a strip of bacon, and some grilled onions.
I could care less about balanced macros. My grandparents lived past 90 at the right weight without knowing their balanced macros. But they ate good food, and had no junk in the house.
PS - I get most of my carbs from fruit and vegetables.
What are your ratios if you eat fruit then? Fruit has sugar?
The sugar I'm getting from fruit is a lot less than the sugar I was getting from cookies and ice cream.
It's entirely possible to control the amount of cookies and ice cream you eat without being LCHF. In fact, amusingly enough, the majority of calories in both are probably from fat, so HCLF people probably aren't eating lots of either.
There's a lot less sugar in potatoes or oatmeal or whole wheat pasta, to pick three major sources of carbs I've had this week, than in fruit (which I've also had, also ice cream, for full disclosure, which I easily can eat a serving of). So not really sure why you are making the discussion about "sugar."
You also didn't answer the question Mel asked.
OK. How about the calories I am getting from fruit is a lot less than the calories I used to get from cookies, cake, chips, pretzels, ice cream and other junk (which I still eat by the way, but at a reduction of about 90% from my previous levels).
I'm sure that's true, but I don't see what it has to do with the discussion or with your claim that LCHF works better than other ways to diet (lots of books on amazon, no books on HCLF, people in general just eat less on LCHF, etc.).
That's my confusion Onlythetruth. You talk about low carbs and about all these LCHF books, but you eat fruit and still eat ice cream, cake, etc. I don't really see that as LCHF...probably eating a balanced diet (the sense of what people eat). Even if you cut down, I just wonder how much you cut if you consider yourself low carb.
You can't eat fruit on low carb? There are also low carb ice cream and baked goods recipes.
too many rules...
Rules? Keep your macros at 5% net carb 20% protein and 75% fat..give or take a few percent for each (whatever works best)..drink enough fluids and keep your sodium up. Done.
How much cardio you wanna do? Anything is possible. The question is if it's worth it.
Is what what worth it? Eating ice cream, yup. Forcing myself to do 700 calories of cardio in order to do keto, nope. Ice cream is worth it. Keto isn't. For me
I hear ya. I was going to type that I really miss ice cream..but I don't anymore. The blended frozen berries and heavy cream do it for me.
However, if I didn't need to be so restrictive, I wouldn't be.
Ditto0 -
I personally do low carb because I love to eat, and I don't blow my calories when I eat low carb. I also find that going low carb during serious hormone changes allows me to lose instead of maintaining. I am by no means Keto, I think I'm more "normal range" than anything. It's not calories in and calories out because I'd rather a huge plate of zuccini noodles then a teeny tiny cup of pasta.
why is it a "tiny cup" of pasta. A serving is two ounces which equals 200 calories. The other night I had pan roasted grouper over two servings of linguine and I had no problem fitting it into my calorie goal for the day ...
why is not calories in vs calories out? If you subed zucchini noodles (which are not real noodles) for pasta then you took a high calorie food and replaced it with a low calorie food...
Where on god's green earth do you get that low calorie pasta? 1 cup of no name bow tie pasta is 248 calories, but 1 cup of zuccini is 18 calories. I didn't disagree with the CICO concept, but I choose to cut my calorie intake in carbs, so I can stuff my face with the amazing white mushroom sauce I make with my high protein and zuccini "noodles" and feel more satisfied than if I get a wee cup of bowtie noodles.0 -
blktngldhrt wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »
Would I be able to eat a serving at night of Ben & Jerry's Half Baked ice cream?blktngldhrt wrote: »
This was my other thought. I follow the reddit/keto boards and I always read that anything under 50 g of carbs as long as it fits is fine. I mean unless it interferes with your goals. Or if you are lower in carbs. Idk this low carb stuff is giving me a headache, but I have no gastric issues right now so I shall stick with it. Ugh.blktngldhrt wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
You can find any kind of diet book on amazon. No one here is recommending a HCLF diet (I'd hate it), but there are people on MFP all about the raw 80-10-10 stuff, and plenty of diet books for plenty of different kinds of diets that are HCLF.
I don't at all disagree that LCHF works, but this is the kind of post that we've been responding to that Mel seems to want to dismiss (I would to if I were her, since she seems extremely sensible and to have a good understanding of how different diets work for different people). The point I and others are making is that LCHF is not the best diet ever and doesn't work for EVERYONE. It would not work for me, whereas balanced macros do (balance depending on what my TDEE is and how much activity I'm doing). You may eat fewer calories doing LCHF (if only because you are using that to cut out trigger foods that for you happen to be processed carbs), but that's not so for everyone, and if you are doing it to cut out foods that tempt you (as opposed to dealing with satiety issues) I'm frankly skeptical about whether there's any benefit long term.
Long term, not having big bags of chips and cookies and pretzels, and half-gallon containers of ice cream in my house, have worked out very well for me long-term. Yes, I admit it - I lack willpower. And so do most people.
I've also dumped cereal because the amount I need to eat for breakfast is 2.5 times the serving suggested on the box. My breakfast "diet food" is one egg, a strip of bacon, and some grilled onions.
I could care less about balanced macros. My grandparents lived past 90 at the right weight without knowing their balanced macros. But they ate good food, and had no junk in the house.
PS - I get most of my carbs from fruit and vegetables.
What are your ratios if you eat fruit then? Fruit has sugar?
The sugar I'm getting from fruit is a lot less than the sugar I was getting from cookies and ice cream.
It's entirely possible to control the amount of cookies and ice cream you eat without being LCHF. In fact, amusingly enough, the majority of calories in both are probably from fat, so HCLF people probably aren't eating lots of either.
There's a lot less sugar in potatoes or oatmeal or whole wheat pasta, to pick three major sources of carbs I've had this week, than in fruit (which I've also had, also ice cream, for full disclosure, which I easily can eat a serving of). So not really sure why you are making the discussion about "sugar."
You also didn't answer the question Mel asked.
OK. How about the calories I am getting from fruit is a lot less than the calories I used to get from cookies, cake, chips, pretzels, ice cream and other junk (which I still eat by the way, but at a reduction of about 90% from my previous levels).
I'm sure that's true, but I don't see what it has to do with the discussion or with your claim that LCHF works better than other ways to diet (lots of books on amazon, no books on HCLF, people in general just eat less on LCHF, etc.).
That's my confusion Onlythetruth. You talk about low carbs and about all these LCHF books, but you eat fruit and still eat ice cream, cake, etc. I don't really see that as LCHF...probably eating a balanced diet (the sense of what people eat). Even if you cut down, I just wonder how much you cut if you consider yourself low carb.
You can't eat fruit on low carb? There are also low carb ice cream and baked goods recipes.
too many rules...
Rules? Keep your macros at 5% net carb 20% protein and 75% fat..give or take a few percent for each (whatever works best)..drink enough fluids and keep your sodium up. Done.
How much cardio you wanna do? Anything is possible. The question is if it's worth it.
This doesn't even make sense...
Why?
Because he asked if he could have half baked ice cream..which is 32g of net carbs. In order to fit it into the keto macros he would need to have a large number of calories to work with in order to get the desired amount of ice cream and stay within the 5%. Exercise increases the number of calories one can eat..this increasing the number
of carbs.
For example, I ate 1824 calories last Thursday and my carbs were 30g net or 9%. I would have easily been able to skip the beer and jerky and have a half serving of the ice cream that day. Some people can be in ketosis at 9% carb. I, personally like 4-5% better for my blood glucose.
Because in my crazy world of just eating a well balanced and nutritious diet, I don't need to do *kitten* loads of cardio just to have a little ice cream for desert. But hey...I live in crazy land over here....
Everything you're talking about sounds like cruel and unusual punishment...I get why you do it...you have a pretty legit reason medically...I don't see how this would be appealing at all to anyone who didn't need to do it.
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Okay, I got to page 10, then skipped to p. 20. Cliff notes on 11-19 please?0
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cwolfman13 wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »
Would I be able to eat a serving at night of Ben & Jerry's Half Baked ice cream?blktngldhrt wrote: »
This was my other thought. I follow the reddit/keto boards and I always read that anything under 50 g of carbs as long as it fits is fine. I mean unless it interferes with your goals. Or if you are lower in carbs. Idk this low carb stuff is giving me a headache, but I have no gastric issues right now so I shall stick with it. Ugh.blktngldhrt wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
You can find any kind of diet book on amazon. No one here is recommending a HCLF diet (I'd hate it), but there are people on MFP all about the raw 80-10-10 stuff, and plenty of diet books for plenty of different kinds of diets that are HCLF.
I don't at all disagree that LCHF works, but this is the kind of post that we've been responding to that Mel seems to want to dismiss (I would to if I were her, since she seems extremely sensible and to have a good understanding of how different diets work for different people). The point I and others are making is that LCHF is not the best diet ever and doesn't work for EVERYONE. It would not work for me, whereas balanced macros do (balance depending on what my TDEE is and how much activity I'm doing). You may eat fewer calories doing LCHF (if only because you are using that to cut out trigger foods that for you happen to be processed carbs), but that's not so for everyone, and if you are doing it to cut out foods that tempt you (as opposed to dealing with satiety issues) I'm frankly skeptical about whether there's any benefit long term.
Long term, not having big bags of chips and cookies and pretzels, and half-gallon containers of ice cream in my house, have worked out very well for me long-term. Yes, I admit it - I lack willpower. And so do most people.
I've also dumped cereal because the amount I need to eat for breakfast is 2.5 times the serving suggested on the box. My breakfast "diet food" is one egg, a strip of bacon, and some grilled onions.
I could care less about balanced macros. My grandparents lived past 90 at the right weight without knowing their balanced macros. But they ate good food, and had no junk in the house.
PS - I get most of my carbs from fruit and vegetables.
What are your ratios if you eat fruit then? Fruit has sugar?
The sugar I'm getting from fruit is a lot less than the sugar I was getting from cookies and ice cream.
It's entirely possible to control the amount of cookies and ice cream you eat without being LCHF. In fact, amusingly enough, the majority of calories in both are probably from fat, so HCLF people probably aren't eating lots of either.
There's a lot less sugar in potatoes or oatmeal or whole wheat pasta, to pick three major sources of carbs I've had this week, than in fruit (which I've also had, also ice cream, for full disclosure, which I easily can eat a serving of). So not really sure why you are making the discussion about "sugar."
You also didn't answer the question Mel asked.
OK. How about the calories I am getting from fruit is a lot less than the calories I used to get from cookies, cake, chips, pretzels, ice cream and other junk (which I still eat by the way, but at a reduction of about 90% from my previous levels).
I'm sure that's true, but I don't see what it has to do with the discussion or with your claim that LCHF works better than other ways to diet (lots of books on amazon, no books on HCLF, people in general just eat less on LCHF, etc.).
That's my confusion Onlythetruth. You talk about low carbs and about all these LCHF books, but you eat fruit and still eat ice cream, cake, etc. I don't really see that as LCHF...probably eating a balanced diet (the sense of what people eat). Even if you cut down, I just wonder how much you cut if you consider yourself low carb.
You can't eat fruit on low carb? There are also low carb ice cream and baked goods recipes.
too many rules...
Rules? Keep your macros at 5% net carb 20% protein and 75% fat..give or take a few percent for each (whatever works best)..drink enough fluids and keep your sodium up. Done.
How much cardio you wanna do? Anything is possible. The question is if it's worth it.
This doesn't even make sense...
Why?
Because he asked if he could have half baked ice cream..which is 32g of net carbs. In order to fit it into the keto macros he would need to have a large number of calories to work with in order to get the desired amount of ice cream and stay within the 5%. Exercise increases the number of calories one can eat..this increasing the number
of carbs.
For example, I ate 1824 calories last Thursday and my carbs were 30g net or 9%. I would have easily been able to skip the beer and jerky and have a half serving of the ice cream that day. Some people can be in ketosis at 9% carb. I, personally like 4-5% better for my blood glucose.
Because in my crazy world of just eating a well balanced and nutritious diet, I don't need to do *kitten* loads of cardio just to have a little ice cream for desert. But hey...I live in crazy land over here....
Everything you're talking about sounds like cruel and unusual punishment...I get why you do it...you have a pretty legit reason medically...I don't see how this would be appealing at all to anyone who didn't need to do it.
I have to say- I completely agree with @cwolfman13 , I do it because like you said to her- I have a legit medical reason for doing it- but can't see how it would be appealing to someone without a medical reason
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Take the total of X, subtract by the numerator, dividing by the remainder, add in the carbs, subtract out Y, let's see here *tipity type on the calc, rub my brow, chew my pencil...the calculations reveal...... I am going to be fat forever! Someone just get me some ice cream!!!0
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I personally do low carb because I love to eat, and I don't blow my calories when I eat low carb. I also find that going low carb during serious hormone changes allows me to lose instead of maintaining. I am by no means Keto, I think I'm more "normal range" than anything. It's not calories in and calories out because I'd rather a huge plate of zuccini noodles then a teeny tiny cup of pasta.
why is it a "tiny cup" of pasta. A serving is two ounces which equals 200 calories. The other night I had pan roasted grouper over two servings of linguine and I had no problem fitting it into my calorie goal for the day ...
why is not calories in vs calories out? If you subed zucchini noodles (which are not real noodles) for pasta then you took a high calorie food and replaced it with a low calorie food...
Where on god's green earth do you get that low calorie pasta? 1 cup of no name bow tie pasta is 248 calories, but 1 cup of zuccini is 18 calories. I didn't disagree with the CICO concept, but I choose to cut my calorie intake in carbs, so I can stuff my face with the amazing white mushroom sauce I make with my high protein and zuccini "noodles" and feel more satisfied than if I get a wee cup of bowtie noodles.
I sometimes do winter squash in lieu of pasta, but I don't actually get why you need to choose between some giant amount of pasta or zucchini. I made pasta last night and had a full serving (2 oz dry, 200 calories). I normally have a bit less than a serving but was hungry and had lots of calories left. I added 4 oz smoked salmon and a bunch of veggies, including zucchini, to make a filling sauce, plus some olives because I love them. When I mixed it all together it was quite voluminous, at least from my perspective, and made a really filling meal. It wasn't especially high calorie (I still had lots of calories, so was forced to have B&Js), and would have been even fewer if I hadn't decided to use the olives.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Would I be able to eat a serving at night of Ben & Jerry's Half Baked ice cream?blktngldhrt wrote: »
This was my other thought. I follow the reddit/keto boards and I always read that anything under 50 g of carbs as long as it fits is fine. I mean unless it interferes with your goals. Or if you are lower in carbs. Idk this low carb stuff is giving me a headache, but I have no gastric issues right now so I shall stick with it. Ugh.blktngldhrt wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
You can find any kind of diet book on amazon. No one here is recommending a HCLF diet (I'd hate it), but there are people on MFP all about the raw 80-10-10 stuff, and plenty of diet books for plenty of different kinds of diets that are HCLF.
I don't at all disagree that LCHF works, but this is the kind of post that we've been responding to that Mel seems to want to dismiss (I would to if I were her, since she seems extremely sensible and to have a good understanding of how different diets work for different people). The point I and others are making is that LCHF is not the best diet ever and doesn't work for EVERYONE. It would not work for me, whereas balanced macros do (balance depending on what my TDEE is and how much activity I'm doing). You may eat fewer calories doing LCHF (if only because you are using that to cut out trigger foods that for you happen to be processed carbs), but that's not so for everyone, and if you are doing it to cut out foods that tempt you (as opposed to dealing with satiety issues) I'm frankly skeptical about whether there's any benefit long term.
Long term, not having big bags of chips and cookies and pretzels, and half-gallon containers of ice cream in my house, have worked out very well for me long-term. Yes, I admit it - I lack willpower. And so do most people.
I've also dumped cereal because the amount I need to eat for breakfast is 2.5 times the serving suggested on the box. My breakfast "diet food" is one egg, a strip of bacon, and some grilled onions.
I could care less about balanced macros. My grandparents lived past 90 at the right weight without knowing their balanced macros. But they ate good food, and had no junk in the house.
PS - I get most of my carbs from fruit and vegetables.
What are your ratios if you eat fruit then? Fruit has sugar?
The sugar I'm getting from fruit is a lot less than the sugar I was getting from cookies and ice cream.
It's entirely possible to control the amount of cookies and ice cream you eat without being LCHF. In fact, amusingly enough, the majority of calories in both are probably from fat, so HCLF people probably aren't eating lots of either.
There's a lot less sugar in potatoes or oatmeal or whole wheat pasta, to pick three major sources of carbs I've had this week, than in fruit (which I've also had, also ice cream, for full disclosure, which I easily can eat a serving of). So not really sure why you are making the discussion about "sugar."
You also didn't answer the question Mel asked.
OK. How about the calories I am getting from fruit is a lot less than the calories I used to get from cookies, cake, chips, pretzels, ice cream and other junk (which I still eat by the way, but at a reduction of about 90% from my previous levels).
I'm sure that's true, but I don't see what it has to do with the discussion or with your claim that LCHF works better than other ways to diet (lots of books on amazon, no books on HCLF, people in general just eat less on LCHF, etc.).
That's my confusion Onlythetruth. You talk about low carbs and about all these LCHF books, but you eat fruit and still eat ice cream, cake, etc. I don't really see that as LCHF...probably eating a balanced diet (the sense of what people eat). Even if you cut down, I just wonder how much you cut if you consider yourself low carb.
You can't eat fruit on low carb? There are also low carb ice cream and baked goods recipes.
too many rules...
Rules? Keep your macros at 5% net carb 20% protein and 75% fat..give or take a few percent for each (whatever works best)..drink enough fluids and keep your sodium up. Done.
How much cardio you wanna do? Anything is possible. The question is if it's worth it.
This doesn't even make sense...
Yup. So either I would not be able to eat the ice cream or as per here numbers I would have to do almost 700 calories worth of cardio. 2 rules, too many rules
If you were doing strict keto. If you were doing generic low carb, it would fit, but you'd probably have to eat less vegetables that day to offset it.
So what you're saying is more rules?
Nope, just basic math. 1 carb = 4 calories, 1 protein = 4 calories, 1 fat = 9 calories. For every 4 calories of carb you need 76 calories of protein and fat at 5/20/75. OTOH, if you don't do LC, and your macros are 50/25/25, you need 4 calories of protein and fat for every 4 calories of carb. The equation is the same, whether you do LC or LF or even balance. All that changes is the value of the variables. If you're carb loading, you need to make sure your fat and protein are restricted, or else you need to burn the extra calories you get from them. Nothing is different except the values in the equation.
If LC is "extra rules," that means LF is extra rules, carb loading is extra rules, everything is extra rules.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »
Would I be able to eat a serving at night of Ben & Jerry's Half Baked ice cream?blktngldhrt wrote: »
This was my other thought. I follow the reddit/keto boards and I always read that anything under 50 g of carbs as long as it fits is fine. I mean unless it interferes with your goals. Or if you are lower in carbs. Idk this low carb stuff is giving me a headache, but I have no gastric issues right now so I shall stick with it. Ugh.blktngldhrt wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
You can find any kind of diet book on amazon. No one here is recommending a HCLF diet (I'd hate it), but there are people on MFP all about the raw 80-10-10 stuff, and plenty of diet books for plenty of different kinds of diets that are HCLF.
I don't at all disagree that LCHF works, but this is the kind of post that we've been responding to that Mel seems to want to dismiss (I would to if I were her, since she seems extremely sensible and to have a good understanding of how different diets work for different people). The point I and others are making is that LCHF is not the best diet ever and doesn't work for EVERYONE. It would not work for me, whereas balanced macros do (balance depending on what my TDEE is and how much activity I'm doing). You may eat fewer calories doing LCHF (if only because you are using that to cut out trigger foods that for you happen to be processed carbs), but that's not so for everyone, and if you are doing it to cut out foods that tempt you (as opposed to dealing with satiety issues) I'm frankly skeptical about whether there's any benefit long term.
Long term, not having big bags of chips and cookies and pretzels, and half-gallon containers of ice cream in my house, have worked out very well for me long-term. Yes, I admit it - I lack willpower. And so do most people.
I've also dumped cereal because the amount I need to eat for breakfast is 2.5 times the serving suggested on the box. My breakfast "diet food" is one egg, a strip of bacon, and some grilled onions.
I could care less about balanced macros. My grandparents lived past 90 at the right weight without knowing their balanced macros. But they ate good food, and had no junk in the house.
PS - I get most of my carbs from fruit and vegetables.
What are your ratios if you eat fruit then? Fruit has sugar?
The sugar I'm getting from fruit is a lot less than the sugar I was getting from cookies and ice cream.
It's entirely possible to control the amount of cookies and ice cream you eat without being LCHF. In fact, amusingly enough, the majority of calories in both are probably from fat, so HCLF people probably aren't eating lots of either.
There's a lot less sugar in potatoes or oatmeal or whole wheat pasta, to pick three major sources of carbs I've had this week, than in fruit (which I've also had, also ice cream, for full disclosure, which I easily can eat a serving of). So not really sure why you are making the discussion about "sugar."
You also didn't answer the question Mel asked.
OK. How about the calories I am getting from fruit is a lot less than the calories I used to get from cookies, cake, chips, pretzels, ice cream and other junk (which I still eat by the way, but at a reduction of about 90% from my previous levels).
I'm sure that's true, but I don't see what it has to do with the discussion or with your claim that LCHF works better than other ways to diet (lots of books on amazon, no books on HCLF, people in general just eat less on LCHF, etc.).
That's my confusion Onlythetruth. You talk about low carbs and about all these LCHF books, but you eat fruit and still eat ice cream, cake, etc. I don't really see that as LCHF...probably eating a balanced diet (the sense of what people eat). Even if you cut down, I just wonder how much you cut if you consider yourself low carb.
You can't eat fruit on low carb? There are also low carb ice cream and baked goods recipes.
too many rules...
Rules? Keep your macros at 5% net carb 20% protein and 75% fat..give or take a few percent for each (whatever works best)..drink enough fluids and keep your sodium up. Done.
How much cardio you wanna do? Anything is possible. The question is if it's worth it.
This doesn't even make sense...
Why?
Because he asked if he could have half baked ice cream..which is 32g of net carbs. In order to fit it into the keto macros he would need to have a large number of calories to work with in order to get the desired amount of ice cream and stay within the 5%. Exercise increases the number of calories one can eat..this increasing the number
of carbs.
For example, I ate 1824 calories last Thursday and my carbs were 30g net or 9%. I would have easily been able to skip the beer and jerky and have a half serving of the ice cream that day. Some people can be in ketosis at 9% carb. I, personally like 4-5% better for my blood glucose.
Because in my crazy world of just eating a well balanced and nutritious diet, I don't need to do *kitten* loads of cardio just to have a little ice cream for desert. But hey...I live in crazy land over here....
Everything you're talking about sounds like cruel and unusual punishment...I get why you do it...you have a pretty legit reason medically...I don't see how this would be appealing at all to anyone who didn't need to do it.
I have to say- I completely agree with @cwolfman13 , I do it because like you said to her- I have a legit medical reason for doing it- but can't see how it would be appealing to someone without a medical reason
It's appealing to me because I feel more satiated on the same calories doing LCHF than I did doing solely calorie counting with more "balanced" macros. Plus, I prefer salt/savory/meaty to sweet and starchy, so it works -for me-. I am not a high performance athlete, though I am making efforts on the "move more" part of the deal.
I do not preach about it, nor in fact truly discuss it much outside the keto boards because it always turns into "eat what you want and make it fit" and what people don't seem to get is that is what I am doing. I just don't happen to care to make bread/pasta/potatoes/sweets/etc... fit... right now.
*Disclaimer: I lost 80lbs straight calorie counting before switching to LCHF and another 60 since then. In both cases I am counting calories, I just feel better/fuller/happier what have you, in the second case*
0 -
neanderthin wrote: »
To be kicked out of ketosis it takes more than eating carbs one time. You might want to look at a cyclical ketogenic diet for more details
Would I be able to eat a serving at night of Ben & Jerry's Half Baked ice cream?blktngldhrt wrote: »
This was my other thought. I follow the reddit/keto boards and I always read that anything under 50 g of carbs as long as it fits is fine. I mean unless it interferes with your goals. Or if you are lower in carbs. Idk this low carb stuff is giving me a headache, but I have no gastric issues right now so I shall stick with it. Ugh.blktngldhrt wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
You can find any kind of diet book on amazon. No one here is recommending a HCLF diet (I'd hate it), but there are people on MFP all about the raw 80-10-10 stuff, and plenty of diet books for plenty of different kinds of diets that are HCLF.
I don't at all disagree that LCHF works, but this is the kind of post that we've been responding to that Mel seems to want to dismiss (I would to if I were her, since she seems extremely sensible and to have a good understanding of how different diets work for different people). The point I and others are making is that LCHF is not the best diet ever and doesn't work for EVERYONE. It would not work for me, whereas balanced macros do (balance depending on what my TDEE is and how much activity I'm doing). You may eat fewer calories doing LCHF (if only because you are using that to cut out trigger foods that for you happen to be processed carbs), but that's not so for everyone, and if you are doing it to cut out foods that tempt you (as opposed to dealing with satiety issues) I'm frankly skeptical about whether there's any benefit long term.
Long term, not having big bags of chips and cookies and pretzels, and half-gallon containers of ice cream in my house, have worked out very well for me long-term. Yes, I admit it - I lack willpower. And so do most people.
I've also dumped cereal because the amount I need to eat for breakfast is 2.5 times the serving suggested on the box. My breakfast "diet food" is one egg, a strip of bacon, and some grilled onions.
I could care less about balanced macros. My grandparents lived past 90 at the right weight without knowing their balanced macros. But they ate good food, and had no junk in the house.
PS - I get most of my carbs from fruit and vegetables.
What are your ratios if you eat fruit then? Fruit has sugar?
The sugar I'm getting from fruit is a lot less than the sugar I was getting from cookies and ice cream.
It's entirely possible to control the amount of cookies and ice cream you eat without being LCHF. In fact, amusingly enough, the majority of calories in both are probably from fat, so HCLF people probably aren't eating lots of either.
There's a lot less sugar in potatoes or oatmeal or whole wheat pasta, to pick three major sources of carbs I've had this week, than in fruit (which I've also had, also ice cream, for full disclosure, which I easily can eat a serving of). So not really sure why you are making the discussion about "sugar."
You also didn't answer the question Mel asked.
OK. How about the calories I am getting from fruit is a lot less than the calories I used to get from cookies, cake, chips, pretzels, ice cream and other junk (which I still eat by the way, but at a reduction of about 90% from my previous levels).
I'm sure that's true, but I don't see what it has to do with the discussion or with your claim that LCHF works better than other ways to diet (lots of books on amazon, no books on HCLF, people in general just eat less on LCHF, etc.).
That's my confusion Onlythetruth. You talk about low carbs and about all these LCHF books, but you eat fruit and still eat ice cream, cake, etc. I don't really see that as LCHF...probably eating a balanced diet (the sense of what people eat). Even if you cut down, I just wonder how much you cut if you consider yourself low carb.
You can't eat fruit on low carb? There are also low carb ice cream and baked goods recipes.
too many rules...
Rules? Keep your macros at 5% net carb 20% protein and 75% fat..give or take a few percent for each (whatever works best)..drink enough fluids and keep your sodium up. Done.
How much cardio you wanna do? Anything is possible. The question is if it's worth it.
Why would he have to do cardio to eat ice cream?
To be keto level of low carb (the ratio he quoted) and eat full sugar ice cream, he would need to have room for enough fat and protein to offset the carbs. 1/2c serving of Half Baked has 32g net carbs. That's 128 calories of carbs. If those were the only carbs he had for his entire day, he'd need to be at 2560 calories to stay at 5% carbs. Since he probably would want something besides ice cream in the carb category all day, he'd have to go up an additional 76 calories of fat and protein for each additional single carb.
He was asking about eating it every day. That means either the only carbs he eats for his entire life are ice cream, or he's exceeding every day, not just once in a while. It only takes an hour or two to get back in once you're kicked out, but that's if you resume your normal ratio with the next meal. Adding or shuffling for 32g of ice cream every day isn't really cycling.0 -
I am doing Keto and at the same time cutting calories. A typical day goal for me is 1690 calories. If I go out and eat, or I lift, I might push it up to 2000 calories or so.
What I found was that by cutting carbs to under 50g, increasing my fat and protein intake, it also reduced my overall calories. I found that I am less hungry as well and I have not noticed any "OMG I am going to be sick if I don't eat something" lately.
I tracked my normal eating habits on MFP, and it was close to 3000cal a day. Now I keep under 2000 cal per day. Most days, my breakfast is 2 eggs. If I get hungry, a piece of string cheese until a salad with protein (chicken/steak/fish) for lunch. I have been doing this for 6 weeks now and dropped almost 20lbs (hard to tell with the lifting).
I tell my wife that I indulge every now and then for 1 meal, just because I don't want to torture myself. Half a loaf of bread at Longhorn? 255cal & 48g of carbs. That is my entire day right there. Add butter for another 60 calories. So a half of loaf of bread and butter is 315 calories and 48g of carbs. As long as I cut the carbs and calories elsewhere in the meal, then it does not hurt me overall. I still believe in CICO, but I also believe that my body can burn the fat I have stored.
TL;DR: By cutting carbs, I naturally reduce my calorie intake at the same time.0 -
So you're saying that I can eat 2000 calories worth of fish, fried in fat if I wanted to and I'll lose weight?[/quote]
no, I think she is saying that your diet is composed of such a high fat% that you are satiated by eating less…
at least that is my understanding….[/quote]
Correct. I have done both ways, extreme low fat and extreme low carb. I'm moderate now. I count calories. My goal is 1800 daily. I eat ~125 g of fat a day. CICO, but its harder for many people to gorge/overeat on a high fat diet than it is on a high carb diet.
On the extreme low fat I was always hungry. Always. I had a hard time sticking to my calorie limit because of this.
On a high fat diet, my morning coffee at 7 am is enough to keep me going until 2-3 pm. Actually have to do like another poster said and make sure I get enough calories spread throughout the day because now I rarely get hungry. Below is my typical breakfast. BTW, the butter goes into the coffee
Butter - Unsalted, 1 tbsp
Coffee - Brewed from grounds, 10 fl oz
Egg, Generic - Egg, Large Grade A, 2-3 whole egg
Almonds, Raw, Unblanched, 1 oz
Heavy Whipping Cream (Ultra Pasterized), 3 Tbsp
Nestle (Coffee Mate) - Creme Brulee Creamer, 3 Tbsp (naughty me, a trans fat!)
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