always friendzoned - advice?
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Look, women don't ALL want X-feature in a potential partner. So asking what women want is silly not because we don't know, but because WE ARE MANY AND VARIED and what I want is not what the next lady will want.
Don't ask a sample of women what women want in a partner, but do everything else the legendary dude and at least one other said: Focus on yourself and being a person you'd want to be. I don't mean "Oh I want to be a person with a girlfriend, how do I do that?!" What features do you want others to see in you? Be someone you like being, or like being who you already are. If you like who you are as a person, positivity will come much more easily. You may not become super confident but you'll know you're good enough just as you are. You may not become a pro at your hobbies/goals but you'll have a passion for the things you choose to have an interest in. And you may still want a relationship, but you won't need one to feel emotionally fulfilled.
Needing a relationship or needing a partner to feel worthy or happy puts a lot of pressure on anyone you could potentially date. It can sometimes be obvious to others and they might think you're a great guy but they don't want that responsibility.
That's why so many people have said to take the pressure off of finding a date and to just do you. Because the difference between someone who'd like a relationship and someone who needs one is the first person already has their own identity and direction at least a little bit figured out and the second one is incomplete and will require a lot more work from a partner. The second person is setting themselves up for hurt and angst.
If you are your number one priority, then romance will be nice but it won't devastate you in its absence. Then you may take the opportunity to ask a girl out, or she may ask you out, and you're capable of dealing with any outcome. Being rejected will feel less like "ARGH WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME?!" and more like "Huh, I guess I misread her! Oh well."
Good luck to you... and stop believing in the friendzone.0 -
slideaway1 wrote: »Calm down.
I am as serene as the surface of a lake on a windless day; I wonder what makes you think otherwise?
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I will link you to this, its a good read. thoughts-on-the-friendzone.
As far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing as the "friendzone". If there is a guy I have a lot in common with etc I'm either attracted to them or not. If I am, then I like them and would consider dating them. If I don't, then I like them as a friend. The difference between guys I want to be friends with and guys I want to date is whether I find them attractive or not. That's all the "friendzone" is. A guy who thinks a girl has to be attracted to him because he wants her to be, when she isn't he says he's been "friendzoned" because he wont accept she just isn't interested.
Also, something I read (I think it was on a forum post here on MFP actually) that I always remember when people talk about "nice guys" or the "friendzone".
Girls aren't vending machines you put niceness into until sex comes out.
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slideaway1 wrote: »determined_ella wrote: »Ok..... I have had 3 relationships from online..... not a dating sites though! it was actually just a normal chat room... 8 years ago they didn't have hardly any...er... well maybe the odd perv
but there wasn't much sex chat etc.
I met them and things went great for a matter of months... then the real them came through.... not forgetting the person you are on a computer compared to real life is sometimes very different... they can be so quiet on here... but then you meet them and they are loud and crazy crazy lol. honestly, I'd say back away from the internet if you're looking for love....... my ex I met him off a chat room... he used to flirt like crazy... then when we met it was great.. then eventually moved in with me.... then I saw exactly what I wasn't seeing through a computer screen.... he was still on the chat room hooking up with women! also his ex lol. I only found this out as he gave me his phone when he got a new one... his ex and his other girlies were texting me saying hey thanks for the pics etc.... so I replied saying sorry who's this... then they told me everything... was a good 3 hour conversation with 3 women he had strung along... so booted him to the curb
sadly that wasn't the only time... happened twice but I caught the second one out within a month lol. learn by your mistakes.
honestly go out your front door... and be yourself!! because reading these books are not going to make you into something you are not.... I mean how long could you keep up with the book... say you met someone, because of the lines you're throwing at her.... then 1-5 years down the line you're fed up of being someone you're not... then you change back and she dislikes that you're "not the same as you were when you met" then you have officially wasted part of your life see where I'm going with this?
girls tend to go for what they want.... sadly some people put looks before everything
but you wouldn't want one of them.... you seem like you could be a settling down kind of guy.
Do they like to be looked at (sexually)? <<< not unless they feel the same way about you.
you would know if a woman is interested... the eye contact, the body gestures etc. should read a book on body language... now that is an interesting read... and it is actually very accurate! good luck!mumblemagic wrote: »
What is NoFap, BTW?
it's basically quitting mast*rbation and p*rn
That's a real deal breaker for me. I refuse, refuse I tell ya!
Me too! Madness!
Also how would it help get a girl?
And would it not make sex last about 5 seconds?0 -
slideaway1 wrote: »What some people consider the Friend zone, others just see as playing the long game. Just try to put a more positive slant on it .
No. If you are going to be friends with someone be friends with them. Playing the long game isn't being friends it is being manipulative and dishonest and I don't think that is something to be proud of.
He's joking (I think). He has a habit of chiming in with cheeky, mildly inflammatory remarks intended to be humourous. They usually are but this one is a little over the line :-)0 -
determined_ella wrote: »it's basically quitting mast*rbation and p*rnslideaway1 wrote: »That's a real deal breaker for me. I refuse, refuse I tell ya! believe it or not.... the real deal is a much better place than sat on your own watching others do what you want to.... plus it has it's benefits
I say why choose? You can have the real deal and "alone time"
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mumblemagic wrote: »slideaway1 wrote: »determined_ella wrote: »Ok..... I have had 3 relationships from online..... not a dating sites though! it was actually just a normal chat room... 8 years ago they didn't have hardly any...er... well maybe the odd perv but there wasn't much sex chat etc.
I met them and things went great for a matter of months... then the real them came through.... not forgetting the person you are on a computer compared to real life is sometimes very different... they can be so quiet on here... but then you meet them and they are loud and crazy crazy lol. honestly, I'd say back away from the internet if you're looking for love....... my ex I met him off a chat room... he used to flirt like crazy... then when we met it was great.. then eventually moved in with me.... then I saw exactly what I wasn't seeing through a computer screen.... he was still on the chat room hooking up with women! also his ex lol. I only found this out as he gave me his phone when he got a new one... his ex and his other girlies were texting me saying hey thanks for the pics etc.... so I replied saying sorry who's this... then they told me everything... was a good 3 hour conversation with 3 women he had strung along... so booted him to the curb
sadly that wasn't the only time... happened twice but I caught the second one out within a month lol. learn by your mistakes.
honestly go out your front door... and be yourself!! because reading these books are not going to make you into something you are not.... I mean how long could you keep up with the book... say you met someone, because of the lines you're throwing at her.... then 1-5 years down the line you're fed up of being someone you're not... then you change back and she dislikes that you're "not the same as you were when you met" then you have officially wasted part of your life see where I'm going with this?
girls tend to go for what they want.... sadly some people put looks before everything but you wouldn't want one of them.... you seem like you could be a settling down kind of guy.
Do they like to be looked at (sexually)? <<< not unless they feel the same way about you.
you would know if a woman is interested... the eye contact, the body gestures etc. should read a book on body language... now that is an interesting read... and it is actually very accurate! good luck!mumblemagic wrote: »
What is NoFap, BTW?
it's basically quitting mast*rbation and p*rn
That's a real deal breaker for me. I refuse, refuse I tell ya!
Me too! Madness!
Also how would it help get a girl?
And would it not make sex last about 5 seconds?
And isn't it really bad for the prostate to not "clean the pipes"?0 -
mumblemagic wrote: »determined_ella wrote: »it's basically quitting mast*rbation and p*rnslideaway1 wrote: »That's a real deal breaker for me. I refuse, refuse I tell ya! believe it or not.... the real deal is a much better place than sat on your own watching others do what you want to.... plus it has it's benefits
I say why choose? You can have the real deal and "alone time"
ah but for people who go to nofap is usually because they have a very unhealthy way of *kitten*... where it takes over their lives... stops them getting a partner too.
but yes if both parties accept that you *kitten* ( some don't like the idea of you touching your own body alone.... as normally they are insecure that your doing it for someone else )
but I agree both should be allowed in a relationship lol 0 -
slideaway1 wrote: »What some people consider the Friend zone, others just see as playing the long game. Just try to put a more positive slant on it .
No. If you are going to be friends with someone be friends with them. Playing the long game isn't being friends it is being manipulative and dishonest and I don't think that is something to be proud of.
This.
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Eliminate the idea of a friend zone. This doesn't exist. What you're describing happens to women too. I've been out with plenty of guys who think I'm a nice person but they don't want to date me. I don't have a special word for it.
What do girls care for (first)?
Looks? Sympathy? Weight? Stature?
There's a lot of variance in what women find attractive, as the previous posters pointed out. What I consider to be good looking can be totally different from what another woman prefers. (I don't think Ryan Reynolds is hot. I understand why people think he's attractive but I am not attracted to him.) As such, I wouldn't make it a goal to fit any sort of mold.
The whole "be yourself" advice sounds unhelpful but it gets repeated because it's true. Be a confident and self-aware version of yourself. In the end you should be yourself because you want to end up with someone who likes you for you and not someone you're pretending to be.0 -
I'm super glad to see that so many posters have addressed the (non)existence of the friend zone! I'll be glad to hear the day that word finally gets put to rest.
Your friends gave you excellent advice. Anyone, regardless of gender, can sense desperation. From the sounds of it, you're looking for a girl, not the girl. Focus on you, on doing the things you enjoy and spending time with people that make you happy. The right girl is going to come along when you least expect it. And don't be afraid to be friends with plenty of girls. The friendzone absolutely does not exist. I personally don't know any girl that's dated someone she wasn't at least sort of friends with at first. It just takes time, patience, and understanding.0 -
Just go up. Start a conversation and ask her to dinner. You can secure a date in under 60 seconds.
Law of averages applies as well. 9 of 10 will turn you down but all that matters is the one that says yes.
Get away from that online BS. Go meet girls in the real world. Build your confidence from getting shot down.
Women will be amazed that you're trying to pick them up at the gas station or grocery store when they're not all dolled up. Be confident. Speak clearly and maintain eye contact. Ask them what they're doing later. If they say "nothing or I dunno" that's the time to strike. Suggest a date. Such as. Well would you like to go to dinner, or wanna grab some lunch. And bingo.0 -
Just go up. Start a conversation and ask her to dinner. You can secure a date in under 60 seconds.
Law of averages applies as well. 9 of 10 will turn you down but all that matters is the one that says yes.
Get away from that online BS. Go meet girls in the real world. Build your confidence from getting shot down.
Women will be amazed that you're trying to pick them up at the gas station or grocery store when they're not all dolled up. Be confident. Speak clearly and maintain eye contact. Ask them what they're doing later. If they say "nothing or I dunno" that's the time to strike. Suggest a date. Such as. Well would you like to go to dinner, or wanna grab some lunch. And bingo.
This person has it right. Being direct and acting confident while asking someone out (even if it's fake confidence) works really well.0 -
So happy many others have said it. There is no such thing as being 'friendzoned'.
Everyone is different when it comes to finding relationships. Some people find it easy to ask others out, others struggle. Some go through partners only weekly basis, others are in much longer relationships. Just be yourself and act natural. Ask someone out for coffee or 'do you want join me for lunch?', or to somewhere like a zoo or park - somewhere you can feel relaxed (if you're a shy person, I'd avoid fancy restaurants on a first date as they can be nerve wracking).0 -
Heh, the advice I give all my guy friends about women only wanting to be friends with them...you made a new friend! Quit your wallowing. It takes me forever to make friends. XD Most guys I find tend to message girls on online dating sites that are...to put it politely...waaay out of their league. Not to say that some smokin' hot ladies don't want average looking guys ever or to say that everyone has the same tastes in partners, but generally speaking if you know you're about a solid 5 or a 6, asking out only 9 and 10 people won't get you far regardless of gender. I have one friend who does this exact thing and then always complains that he's single and "no women" will give him the time of day...I just shake my head and say "Well, -those- women won't, but maybe if you asked out someone a little less Kate Moss and little more Lena Dunham in the looks department you'd find someone who will date you."0
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mziegler01 wrote: »Heh, the advice I give all my guy friends about women only wanting to be friends with them...you made a new friend! Quit your wallowing. It takes me forever to make friends. XD Most guys I find tend to message girls on online dating sites that are...to put it politely...waaay out of their league. Not to say that some smokin' hot ladies don't want average looking guys ever or to say that everyone has the same tastes in partners, but generally speaking if you know you're about a solid 5 or a 6, asking out only 9 and 10 people won't get you far regardless of gender. I have one friend who does this exact thing and then always complains that he's single and "no women" will give him the time of day...I just shake my head and say "Well, -those- women won't, but maybe if you asked out someone a little less Kate Moss and little more Lena Dunham in the looks department you'd find someone who will date you."
Like this!0 -
Be good at something.
You know how women always say they like guys who are confident? That's where you get the confidence. Be really good at something. Play guitar, juggle, work on cars, ski, cook, write... whatever. We notice when you're good at something because it comes out in the way you speak and act and behave. We may not all be entirely impressed with whatever it is you do, but we will notice how you act.
And then the other thing is just be good at talking to people. ALL people - not just the ones you want to hook up with.
Other things that we notice - good hygiene, grammar, courtesy and manners - and some humility goes a long way as well.
Additional: No such thing as the friendzone. That's somewhere that you have put yourself. The "nice guy" who just hangs around, not making himself known, expecting that if he's "nice" and does everything for her, she'll "come around" and go out with him. That hardly ever works. Because we see you as just this shy puppy dog - not a sexual being at all. And "those jerks" that she does go out with - they made themselves known up front to her. They were confident and moved right in for the kill. The "nice guys" are just jealous that they didn't have the courage to do so. You can have courage and confidence without being a complete knuckledragger.
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OMG this. I pinpointed when I went from a crush on my partner (who is very classically good-looking) to full on attraction/falling for him. I saw him order in a restaurant and treat the server with perfect manners, frequent thank-yous, and a friendly smile. Does that seem silly? It really shouldn't. It's a great signal for how someone will treat everyone else in their life.
My first real boyfriend was charming on the surface (that taught me that "charming" is not a good thing). But we went to a grocery store to buy a few things and his debit card didn't work for some reason. He proceeded to throw a fit to the clerk and caused a scene which was completely embarrassing. I broke up with him not long after that. The way you treat people who are serving you tells us a lot.
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amyrebeccah wrote: »OMG this. I pinpointed when I went from a crush on my partner (who is very classically good-looking) to full on attraction/falling for him. I saw him order in a restaurant and treat the server with perfect manners, frequent thank-yous, and a friendly smile. Does that seem silly? It really shouldn't. It's a great signal for how someone will treat everyone else in their life.
Not at all silly! The first time I spent time with my partner, it wasn't an official date. We met up at the mall with a few of his friends and walked/talked. His friends wandered off, got into some shenanigans, and got kicked out and tried to drag my partner down with them. When the security guard approached him, he was friendly, polite, and compliant to the point that instead of telling us to leave we were informed that his friends were kicked out but we were free to stay if we wished. That was the behavior that sent him skyrocketing away from the "friend" label!0 -
Hey!
Would love to get some advice.....
I tried a couple of times to pick up girls per online dating (30-40 dates) and it also worked couple of times (3-5). Had some short relationships and ONS but it hardly ever lasted and also werent that much
I read A LOT of books on flirting and similiar subjects but have no idea what to do really. I dont really buy in that PUA stuff.. but especially the "daygame" , at least so to say, is what I really lack despite being on campus right now... I am just shy somehow and dont know how I get over it...
do you guys have some serious advice?
I asked a couple of Friends (female) and ex-GF for advice but usually get.. "time isnt right" ...."just be yourself"..... "you will find her".. and stuff like that
"Just be yourself" is the right advice. if you are spending time with someone while pretending to be something you are not they will figure it out. It is exhausting to pretend to be something you perceive to be desirable, especially when you perceive WRONG.
Also thought about trying NoFap to lessen social anxiety of girls a bit; but am I not objectifing the girls even more because I know its only possible to get sex with the girls?
Do they like to be looked at (sexually)?
Women like to be viewed as desirable, just like us men. They also like to be "though" of as desirable. Attractive women know they are attractive. It is your job as the MAN to delve bit deeper and find something to like about her besides the skin deep looks. They tend to be averse to being drooled on or leered at. there is a limit between flirty winks and creepy stares. Her eyes are the window to her mind which is her biggest most influential sexual organ.
As far as the "no *kitten*" is concerned....Never feed a frothing dog.
Also don't take this the wrong way but as long as you see women as something to be obtained rather than someone to experience with, give to and share with, you are objectifying.
What do girls care for (first)?
Looks? Sympathy? Weight? Stature?
The type of women I care to spend time with value honesty, clarity, sanity, humor, authenticity, genuineness, empathy, manliness, masculinity and solidarity. (I aint bad lookin neither)
How do you girls give hints to the guy?
Just eye contact? or something else?
If she smiles a lot she likes you. If she touches you during conversations she likes you, If she maintains eye contact during your conversations she likes you. Subtle touches on the arms, shoulders, or hands during conversation mean a lot to me.
Should I approach in the supermarket/studio/on their regular schedule?
What if they don't see me/notice me? Do they feel overwhelmed`? Insecure? Suprised?
I avoid asking out women that are being paid to be nice to me. if I just can't live without asking that bank teller or waitress out on a date, it needs to be neutral ground where she is comfortable telling me No without compromising her customer service job. Bookstores, school, grocery stores, coffee shops, and civic associations are great. I actually started going back to school to meet women and got a degree out of it. I also found I really, really like being single.............until I get lonely
The word confidence has been mentioned here a bunch. I had no idea what that meant when I found myself suddenly single at 34 years old after being married since 18.
For me confidence means being 100 percent secure in exactly "Who" I am all the time. No faking, no playing, no changing for someone else. Just being me all the time.
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mziegler01 wrote: »Heh, the advice I give all my guy friends about women only wanting to be friends with them...you made a new friend! Quit your wallowing. It takes me forever to make friends. XD Most guys I find tend to message girls on online dating sites that are...to put it politely...waaay out of their league. Not to say that some smokin' hot ladies don't want average looking guys ever or to say that everyone has the same tastes in partners, but generally speaking if you know you're about a solid 5 or a 6, asking out only 9 and 10 people won't get you far regardless of gender. I have one friend who does this exact thing and then always complains that he's single and "no women" will give him the time of day...I just shake my head and say "Well, -those- women won't, but maybe if you asked out someone a little less Kate Moss and little more Lena Dunham in the looks department you'd find someone who will date you."
I am not pop culture aware so I had to look up Lena Dunham. She is positively breathtaking, I would not rate her less than a 9.0 -
Advice? Don't use BS terms like 'friendzoned' to turn the blame entirely on women for you being single.
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mziegler01 wrote: »Heh, the advice I give all my guy friends about women only wanting to be friends with them...you made a new friend! Quit your wallowing. It takes me forever to make friends. XD Most guys I find tend to message girls on online dating sites that are...to put it politely...waaay out of their league. Not to say that some smokin' hot ladies don't want average looking guys ever or to say that everyone has the same tastes in partners, but generally speaking if you know you're about a solid 5 or a 6, asking out only 9 and 10 people won't get you far regardless of gender. I have one friend who does this exact thing and then always complains that he's single and "no women" will give him the time of day...I just shake my head and say "Well, -those- women won't, but maybe if you asked out someone a little less Kate Moss and little more Lena Dunham in the looks department you'd find someone who will date you."
It surprises me when average-looking guys sincerely believe they're entitled to a model-like girlfriend. I think the problem is that they don't really see themselves as a 5 or 6 but have an inflated perception of their attractiveness. This is the only way I can understand why an average guy with nothing out of the ordinary going for him (crazy talent, fame, etc.) feels it's realistic.0 -
DearestWinter wrote: »
It surprises me when average-looking guys sincerely believe they're entitled to a model-like girlfriend. I think the problem is that they don't really see themselves as a 5 or 6 but have an inflated perception of their attractiveness. This is the only way I can understand why an average guy with nothing out of the ordinary going for him (crazy talent, fame, etc.) feels it's realistic.
Wow. I wonder what its like when your poop doesn't stink. Can you tell me?0 -
DearestWinter wrote: »mziegler01 wrote: »Heh, the advice I give all my guy friends about women only wanting to be friends with them...you made a new friend! Quit your wallowing. It takes me forever to make friends. XD Most guys I find tend to message girls on online dating sites that are...to put it politely...waaay out of their league. Not to say that some smokin' hot ladies don't want average looking guys ever or to say that everyone has the same tastes in partners, but generally speaking if you know you're about a solid 5 or a 6, asking out only 9 and 10 people won't get you far regardless of gender. I have one friend who does this exact thing and then always complains that he's single and "no women" will give him the time of day...I just shake my head and say "Well, -those- women won't, but maybe if you asked out someone a little less Kate Moss and little more Lena Dunham in the looks department you'd find someone who will date you."
It surprises me when average-looking guys sincerely believe they're entitled to a model-like girlfriend. I think the problem is that they don't really see themselves as a 5 or 6 but have an inflated perception of their attractiveness. This is the only way I can understand why an average guy with nothing out of the ordinary going for him (crazy talent, fame, etc.) feels it's realistic.
And that my friends is how to go from a ten to a two in three sentences...........We all deserve to be with someone who rates us an eleventeen.0 -
DearestWinter wrote: »
It surprises me when average-looking guys sincerely believe they're entitled to a model-like girlfriend. I think the problem is that they don't really see themselves as a 5 or 6 but have an inflated perception of their attractiveness. This is the only way I can understand why an average guy with nothing out of the ordinary going for him (crazy talent, fame, etc.) feels it's realistic.
Wow. I wonder what its like when your poop doesn't stink. Can you tell me?
Seriously, come on. Men display and women choose.
A woman who is a 9-10 in the looks department can have her choice of guys. It should be no shock at all that she will very likely choose a man who is relatively close to her own level of looks and/or status.
This is a no-brainer. And an entitlement attitude in anyone is not attractive.
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DearestWinter wrote: »
It surprises me when average-looking guys sincerely believe they're entitled to a model-like girlfriend. I think the problem is that they don't really see themselves as a 5 or 6 but have an inflated perception of their attractiveness. This is the only way I can understand why an average guy with nothing out of the ordinary going for him (crazy talent, fame, etc.) feels it's realistic.
Wow. I wonder what its like when your poop doesn't stink. Can you tell me?
I have no idea. You should ask one of those men with unrealistic expectations.
In case you are confused, I am not a model-like person and I don't aim for guys who are out of my league.0 -
HumboldtFred wrote: »
And that my friends is how to go from a ten to a two in three sentences...........We all deserve to be with someone who rates us an eleventeen.
This.
Sometimes they're so pretty until they start talking
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DearestWinter wrote: »DearestWinter wrote: »
It surprises me when average-looking guys sincerely believe they're entitled to a model-like girlfriend. I think the problem is that they don't really see themselves as a 5 or 6 but have an inflated perception of their attractiveness. This is the only way I can understand why an average guy with nothing out of the ordinary going for him (crazy talent, fame, etc.) feels it's realistic.
Wow. I wonder what its like when your poop doesn't stink. Can you tell me?
I have no idea. You should ask one of those men with unrealistic expectations.
In case you are confused, I am not a model-like person and I don't aim for guys who are out of my league.
So my question to you is this. What happens when beauty or status changes?
I married someone who was stunningly beautiful. All of my friends, (even my family) thought she was way out of "my league." It just so happens that she didn't. Maybe she saw something inside me that showed that when accidents happen and scars and burns covered her beauty I would still love her. We have since gone our own ways but she still commands my respect and I think her not an iota less beautiful than the day I met her at sixteen years of age.
So what is your contingency plan for when your man becomes ugly, sick, scarred, wrinkled, or unemployed. Are you going to cash him in on a new model or just denigrate yourself until your status and beauty matches his?
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So what is your contingency plan for when your man becomes ugly, sick, scarred, wrinkled, or unemployed. Are you going to cash him in on a new model or just denigrate yourself until your status and beauty matches his?
Like attracts like. If you choose someone who's a shallow a**hole you should not be surprised when she/he acts as such.
Besides, rates of divorce are higher when it is the woman who becomes ill.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/03/06/in-sickness-and-health-wifes-serious-illness-increases-chance-of-divorce-later-in-life-husbands-doesnt/
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