Say no to sugar
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
No. The sugar is still the sugar. You can't blame sugar for not being accompanied by fiber, or whatever other magical element makes it OK. It just as natural as butchered beef.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Absolutely, if you eat the sugar-cane as well.
What? What does this have to butchered beef? I didn't say you aren't allowed to cut the canes for manageable size. But you wouldn't just ring out the meat and drink the resulting "juice", would you, or an even more dense, crystalized form of that "juice"?
The reason to mention a sugar cane is that while the quality of the sugar itself is the same in a cane and in refined sugar, eating the cane will automatically provide you volume that will make you feel more full with less consumption of actual sugar. Fruit and fruit juice, for this reason, are not the same. Because you simply cannot consume as much of the sugar if you were eating the fruit as you can by simply drinking the juice, with the same effort.
It's simple: calories in, calories out. CICO. It's easier to take more calories in when it's in the form of free sugars than when it's attached to the things it comes with. Sugar canes. Fruits.0 -
The crystalized form of the juice is still natural. Sugar cane is natural. It is a natural source, even if it is processed.DeguelloTex wrote: »
No. The sugar is still the sugar. You can't blame sugar for not being accompanied by fiber, or whatever other magical element makes it OK. It just as natural as butchered beef.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Absolutely, if you eat the sugar-cane as well.
What? What does this have to butchered beef? I didn't say you aren't allowed to cut the canes for manageable size. But you wouldn't just ring out the meat and drink the resulting "juice", would you, or an even more dense, crystalized form of that "juice"?
The reason to mention a sugar cane is that while the quality of the sugar itself is the same in a cane and in refined sugar, eating the cane will automatically provide you volume that will make you feel more full with less consumption of actual sugar. Fruit and fruit juice, for this reason, are not the same. Because you simply cannot consume as much of the sugar if you were eating the fruit as you can by simply drinking the juice, with the same effort.
It's simple: calories in, calories out. CICO. It's easier to take more calories in when it's in the form of free sugars than when it's attached to the things it comes with. Sugar canes. Fruits.
It's easier to take in more calories when you can go to a freaking supermarket instead of growing and hunting your own food. I guess that makes supermarkets indirectly linked with diabetes.
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Chantell1979 wrote: »Hi everyone......today, is a week from me not using sugar!! My Doctor told to stop drinking or eating sweets that contain sugar because I may end up to be a diabetic. So I have given up sugar folks. I feel alive and refreshed. From a week today...I haven't ate or drank any added sugars...only if in fruits or good carbs. My body feels amazing. No more sluggishness, I'm not tired or having the morning headaches. We can do it...lets get healthy. Feel free to share or add me. Thanks!!
Then your doctor is misinformed. Studies have shown that while sugar may contribute to diabetes but it is a myth that too much sugar causes diabetes.
being overweight can correlate to increased risk of pre-diabetes and type 2 diabetes
lose weight risk goes
Not saying that being over weight is a risk factor, but rather that it is it the sugar itself.
That's a little mushy though. If being overweight is a risk factor for diabetes, and excess added sugar consumption is a risk factor for becoming overweight, then excess added sugar consumption is - albeit indirectly - a risk factor for diabetes. I mean, yes, technically, staying at a healthy weight would mean you would have to worry less about diabetes but consuming excess free sugars makes it less likely that someone will stay at a healthy weight. (Excess as in over the recommended amount that isn't burned off with additional exercise.)
Mushy logic? How about yours. If being overweight is a risk factor for diabetes then EVERY single food that one could eat causing them to be overweight would be a secondary risk factor. That means sugar, steak, cheese. even broccoli could be risk factors.
That's right; every food item can be a risk factor for gaining weight. However, not every food item is as effective in adding the pounds. Start with a calorie is a calorie. I hope we can agree for the purposes of this debate that each additional calorie (above maintenance) is an equal risk factor to weight gain. So what's special about sugary foods and drinks? They contain high concentrations of free sugars, and thus high concentration of calories. So for a lot of people it is easier to cut back on calories BY cutting back on sugary foods and drinks than by cutting back on broccoli and spinach. Conversely increasing consumption of foods and drinks with free sugars quickly increase these jam packed calories, much more quickly by volume than an apple, making the free sugars - or free sugar packed foods and drinks - a higher risk factor than many other foods.
Just pointing out at fat has more calories per gram than carbs...
Right, hence I said many other foods, not any other foods. Also, because foods sold in a box often concentrate the sugar. Fats do have more concentrated calories, but pure fat tends to make one feel full quicker than pure refined sugar. I say pure, because today's fried foods often tend to have a bunch of free (added) sugars as well.0 -
So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
The crystalized form of the juice is still natural. Sugar cane is natural. It is a natural source, even if it is processed.DeguelloTex wrote: »
No. The sugar is still the sugar. You can't blame sugar for not being accompanied by fiber, or whatever other magical element makes it OK. It just as natural as butchered beef.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Absolutely, if you eat the sugar-cane as well.
What? What does this have to butchered beef? I didn't say you aren't allowed to cut the canes for manageable size. But you wouldn't just ring out the meat and drink the resulting "juice", would you, or an even more dense, crystalized form of that "juice"?
The reason to mention a sugar cane is that while the quality of the sugar itself is the same in a cane and in refined sugar, eating the cane will automatically provide you volume that will make you feel more full with less consumption of actual sugar. Fruit and fruit juice, for this reason, are not the same. Because you simply cannot consume as much of the sugar if you were eating the fruit as you can by simply drinking the juice, with the same effort.
It's simple: calories in, calories out. CICO. It's easier to take more calories in when it's in the form of free sugars than when it's attached to the things it comes with. Sugar canes. Fruits.
It's easier to take in more calories when you can go to a freaking supermarket instead of growing and hunting your own food. I guess that makes supermarkets indirectly linked with diabetes.
Actually that's a good point, and it does. But in modern society we can't possibly all grow our own food. In modern society, people can much more easily moderate their free sugar intake.
I don't generally considered processed foods to be natural (but I do see your point - it's from a natural source, technically - perhaps I should have been more precise and said "natural whole forms"). That is not to say processed or anything unnatural is automatically bad. Or even that sugar is automatically bad. What is true is natural (unprocessed) sources of sugar tend to be less dense in sugar and come with nutrients in addition to the energy.0 -
You'd think so, but it never works out like that. People will be pinned to the wall admitting that it isn't the sugar but the fiber, or whatever, and still say it's the sugar that's the problem even though the sugar isn't the difference. Like they say, you can't reason someone out of a position he didn't reason himself into.
So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
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So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
Is overconsumption of free sugars, specifically free-sugar concentrated foods and drinks, "the sugar"? You can decide. I don't even think it matters. What does matter is moderating the intake of these foods can be effective in weight loss, and thus reducing the risk of metabolic disease.0 -
As can, for about the eleventy billionth time, moderating the intake of protein, fat, and alcohol. It's not either/or and there isn't one culprit.
So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
Is overconsumption of free sugars, specifically free-sugar concentrated foods and drinks, "the sugar"? You can decide. I don't even think it matters. What does matter is moderating the intake of these foods can be effective in weight loss, and thus reducing the risk of metabolic disease.
If Protein, Fat, and Carbs all rob a liquor store and Carbs shoots the cashier, Protein and Fat are still to blame, too.
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I like sugary stuff. I don't want to give it up.
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So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
Is overconsumption of free sugars, specifically free-sugar concentrated foods and drinks, "the sugar"? You can decide. I don't even think it matters. What does matter is moderating the intake of these foods can be effective in weight loss, and thus reducing the risk of metabolic disease.
We weren't big dessert eaters growing up. Yes, I maybe had one Little Debbie or whatever every couple of days. But my mom could cook. We had a garden, so fresh veggies were always in supply (and lots of canned veggies in the winter). My dad was (and still is) a master griller. Mashed potatoes, fried okra, squash casserole, fried pork chops, fried green tomatoes, cornbread, broccoli and cheese, chili, spaghetti, slaw, turnip greens - all of those foods were staples in my diet. Not really a lot of "free sugars."
I got fat off of overeating all those foods. Not free sugars.
Stop demonizing one food group and admit that yes, it's overall calorie consumption that matters. Not just sugars. Sugar is just the new thing to blame, just like fat was to blame in the 80s.0 -
peachyfuzzle wrote: »Every rule you break,
Every flag you make,
They'll be watching you...
Brilliant.
But now I've got the damn song stuck in my head.
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When I was drinking 1200+ calories of milk a day, it wasn't just the sugar that was making me fat. I couldn't give up enough sugar to offset that much because there wasn't enough sugar in my diet to do so.Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »
So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
Is overconsumption of free sugars, specifically free-sugar concentrated foods and drinks, "the sugar"? You can decide. I don't even think it matters. What does matter is moderating the intake of these foods can be effective in weight loss, and thus reducing the risk of metabolic disease.
We weren't big dessert eaters growing up. Yes, I maybe had one Little Debbie or whatever every couple of days. But my mom could cook. We had a garden, so fresh veggies were always in supply (and lots of canned veggies in the winter). My dad was (and still is) a master griller. Mashed potatoes, fried okra, squash casserole, fried pork chops, fried green tomatoes, cornbread, broccoli and cheese, chili, spaghetti, slaw, turnip greens - all of those foods were staples in my diet. Not really a lot of "free sugars."
I got fat off of overeating all those foods. Not free sugars.
Stop demonizing one food group and admit that yes, it's overall calorie consumption that matters. Not just sugars. Sugar is just the new thing to blame, just like fat was to blame in the 80s.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
When I was drinking 1200+ calories of milk a day, it wasn't just the sugar that was making me fat. I couldn't give up enough sugar to offset that much because there wasn't enough sugar in my diet to do so.Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »
So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
Is overconsumption of free sugars, specifically free-sugar concentrated foods and drinks, "the sugar"? You can decide. I don't even think it matters. What does matter is moderating the intake of these foods can be effective in weight loss, and thus reducing the risk of metabolic disease.
We weren't big dessert eaters growing up. Yes, I maybe had one Little Debbie or whatever every couple of days. But my mom could cook. We had a garden, so fresh veggies were always in supply (and lots of canned veggies in the winter). My dad was (and still is) a master griller. Mashed potatoes, fried okra, squash casserole, fried pork chops, fried green tomatoes, cornbread, broccoli and cheese, chili, spaghetti, slaw, turnip greens - all of those foods were staples in my diet. Not really a lot of "free sugars."
I got fat off of overeating all those foods. Not free sugars.
Stop demonizing one food group and admit that yes, it's overall calorie consumption that matters. Not just sugars. Sugar is just the new thing to blame, just like fat was to blame in the 80s.
Omg, I always forget milk. I love milk. I could drink it straight from the jug and easily put down 1200 cals a day of the stuff.
It is the best hangover remedy, too. Drank too much the night before? Huge glass of icy cold milk and some ibuprofen. Heaven on earth.0 -
So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
Is overconsumption of free sugars, specifically free-sugar concentrated foods and drinks, "the sugar"? You can decide. I don't even think it matters. What does matter is moderating the intake of these foods can be effective in weight loss, and thus reducing the risk of metabolic disease.
Moderating the consumption of ALL macros is effective in weight loss, thus reducing the risk of metabolic disease.0 -
Tomatoes always helped me more: tomato juice and salsa, particularly. Though I did drink milk with the chips and salsa, so maybe it played a part there, too.Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
When I was drinking 1200+ calories of milk a day, it wasn't just the sugar that was making me fat. I couldn't give up enough sugar to offset that much because there wasn't enough sugar in my diet to do so.Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »
So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
Is overconsumption of free sugars, specifically free-sugar concentrated foods and drinks, "the sugar"? You can decide. I don't even think it matters. What does matter is moderating the intake of these foods can be effective in weight loss, and thus reducing the risk of metabolic disease.
We weren't big dessert eaters growing up. Yes, I maybe had one Little Debbie or whatever every couple of days. But my mom could cook. We had a garden, so fresh veggies were always in supply (and lots of canned veggies in the winter). My dad was (and still is) a master griller. Mashed potatoes, fried okra, squash casserole, fried pork chops, fried green tomatoes, cornbread, broccoli and cheese, chili, spaghetti, slaw, turnip greens - all of those foods were staples in my diet. Not really a lot of "free sugars."
I got fat off of overeating all those foods. Not free sugars.
Stop demonizing one food group and admit that yes, it's overall calorie consumption that matters. Not just sugars. Sugar is just the new thing to blame, just like fat was to blame in the 80s.
Omg, I always forget milk. I love milk. I could drink it straight from the jug and easily put down 1200 cals a day of the stuff.
It is the best hangover remedy, too. Drank too much the night before? Huge glass of icy cold milk and some ibuprofen. Heaven on earth.
I used to drink milk from the same kind of glass as my ice tea. 32 ounces at a time. I'd fill the glass and put it in the freezer for about 20 minutes. Two or three of those a day and sugar couldn't possibly keep up.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
As can, for about the eleventy billionth time, moderating the intake of protein, fat, and alcohol. It's not either/or and there isn't one culprit.
So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
Is overconsumption of free sugars, specifically free-sugar concentrated foods and drinks, "the sugar"? You can decide. I don't even think it matters. What does matter is moderating the intake of these foods can be effective in weight loss, and thus reducing the risk of metabolic disease.
And for the eleventy billionth time, I don't disagree with that. I am merely stating, for again what seems to be the eleventy billionth time, that it is easier to cut the calories by cutting the sugary foods and drinks than cutting many other things.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
As can, for about the eleventy billionth time, moderating the intake of protein, fat, and alcohol. It's not either/or and there isn't one culprit.
So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
Is overconsumption of free sugars, specifically free-sugar concentrated foods and drinks, "the sugar"? You can decide. I don't even think it matters. What does matter is moderating the intake of these foods can be effective in weight loss, and thus reducing the risk of metabolic disease.
And for the eleventy billionth time, I don't disagree with that. I am merely stating, for again what seems to be the eleventy billionth time, that it is easier to cut the calories by cutting the sugary foods and drinks than cutting many other things.
For you, maybe. What we are saying is: No, it is not easier for everyone to cut the calories by cutting the sugary foods and drinks. You are painting everyone with the same paintbrush.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Tomatoes always helped me more: tomato juice and salsa, particularly. Though I did drink milk with the chips and salsa, so maybe it played a part there, too.Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
When I was drinking 1200+ calories of milk a day, it wasn't just the sugar that was making me fat. I couldn't give up enough sugar to offset that much because there wasn't enough sugar in my diet to do so.Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »
So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
Is overconsumption of free sugars, specifically free-sugar concentrated foods and drinks, "the sugar"? You can decide. I don't even think it matters. What does matter is moderating the intake of these foods can be effective in weight loss, and thus reducing the risk of metabolic disease.
We weren't big dessert eaters growing up. Yes, I maybe had one Little Debbie or whatever every couple of days. But my mom could cook. We had a garden, so fresh veggies were always in supply (and lots of canned veggies in the winter). My dad was (and still is) a master griller. Mashed potatoes, fried okra, squash casserole, fried pork chops, fried green tomatoes, cornbread, broccoli and cheese, chili, spaghetti, slaw, turnip greens - all of those foods were staples in my diet. Not really a lot of "free sugars."
I got fat off of overeating all those foods. Not free sugars.
Stop demonizing one food group and admit that yes, it's overall calorie consumption that matters. Not just sugars. Sugar is just the new thing to blame, just like fat was to blame in the 80s.
Omg, I always forget milk. I love milk. I could drink it straight from the jug and easily put down 1200 cals a day of the stuff.
It is the best hangover remedy, too. Drank too much the night before? Huge glass of icy cold milk and some ibuprofen. Heaven on earth.
I used to drink milk from the same kind of glass as my ice tea. 32 ounces at a time. I'd fill the glass and put it in the freezer for about 20 minutes. Two or three of those a day and sugar couldn't possibly keep up.
Oh man. Now I'm craving old school Campbell's tomato soup with milk in it.
Darn you, Tex.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
As can, for about the eleventy billionth time, moderating the intake of protein, fat, and alcohol. It's not either/or and there isn't one culprit.
So we agree, it's not the sugar...
Only if you eat at a surplus and gain weight. That said, weight gain can be achieved via any macro in surplus...Correct, but the NHS also indirectly links sugar consumption with diabetes, saying that added sugars can translate to weight gain, which can then lead to diabetes. (link)
I don't think I disputed that. But as I have said now in multiple posts, because of the concentration of sugars and thus calories (as well as the propensity to create cravings in the case of many), eating sugary foods and drinks make the calories add up faster by volume than many other foods.
Is overconsumption of free sugars, specifically free-sugar concentrated foods and drinks, "the sugar"? You can decide. I don't even think it matters. What does matter is moderating the intake of these foods can be effective in weight loss, and thus reducing the risk of metabolic disease.
And for the eleventy billionth time, I don't disagree with that. I am merely stating, for again what seems to be the eleventy billionth time, that it is easier to cut the calories by cutting the sugary foods and drinks than cutting many other things.
Not always. Until I measured foods, I never realized I was eating 300 calories more in nuts than I thought. Nuts are supposedly good to eat, didn't know I was ingesting too much. Eating a proper serving saved me more calories toward my target than the Mt. Dew I was drinking daily. There is nothing "easier" about reducing one food or another. Its all about knowing what it is you are actually eating.0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »peachyfuzzle wrote: »Every rule you break,
Every flag you make,
They'll be watching you...
Brilliant.
But now I've got the damn song stuck in my head.
That was part of the intention.
0
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