Why the study that showed taking vitamins don't work, is wrong.
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christinev297 wrote: »I've been to scared to read those links...
Tomatoey I've also read smokers require more VitC than the non smokers.
That's true. Here, they advise 35mg more for smokers than for non-smokers.
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TheDevastator wrote: »
But what does sciencebasedmedicine.org say about it?FunkyTobias wrote: »Only if the claim is made by the seller of the product.
Book authors, on the other hand...
But feel free to continue making things up to support your woo
There is no evidence to support routine supplementation. There is also reason to avoid taking megadoses of vitamins, as this can cause toxicity, and even short of toxicity the evidence becomes more compelling at higher doses of the risks of supplementation.
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/vitamins-and-mortality/0 -
The problem I see with this doctor's stance is that the science is progressing AWAY from vitamin supplementation for the average individual. There hasn't been just one, but many studies showing the lack of benefit in vitamin supplementation and megadosing. When I see a single scientist taking a stance contrary to the majority -- one that has not published professionally on vitamin supplementation outside of studies on Vitamin D for people with select disorders -- and spreading her views not in journals, but on Joe Rogan's show, I just don't trust that doctor's view. I have to disregard too much evidence and too many authoritative positions to the contrary in order to embrace her view.
Is it possible that she's a Copernicus in the Catholic Church of the scientific majority? Sure, it's possible. But she's going to have to bring a lot more to the table if she's going to swing opinion her way.0 -
Supplementing is wonderful for people who are low. If you lack iron, D, B-12, whatever, the supplements can be a godsend.
There is no reason to take high doses of things you don't need. The best thing that can happen there is that you pee it all away. The worst thing that can happen is that you create an actual toxicity.
If you can get your vitamins and minerals from your diet, that's the best way to go. It's really hard to do while dieting, though. It's especially if you include junk foods in your diet. I don't eat junk foods and still have a heck of a time balancing my diet.0 -
There is no reason to take high doses of things you don't need. The best thing that can happen there is that you pee it all away. The worst thing that can happen is that you create an actual toxicity.
^^ This. Vitamins are not an exception to the rule of toxicity -- the dose makes the poison. Even vitamin C can be toxic in high enough concentrations (though it is really hard to reach that level, as excess quickly flushes out of the body).
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I was joking. I hate that website.FunkyTobias wrote: »There is no evidence to support routine supplementation. There is also reason to avoid taking megadoses of vitamins, as this can cause toxicity, and even short of toxicity the evidence becomes more compelling at higher doses of the risks of supplementation.
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/vitamins-and-mortality/
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Taking a properly dosed multivitamin is not harmful to human health... not even close. A good multivitamin can be a beneficial addition to fill in gaps in nutrition if your diet is not always perfect.
However, consuming too much of certain ingredients like Vit A, Vit E, Folate, and Selenium (in both supplement and food form) can be harmful, long-term.
More info here: http://www.aor.ca/assets/Research/pdf/fall_2005_article1.pdf0 -
TheDevastator wrote: »
I was joking. I hate that website.FunkyTobias wrote: »There is no evidence to support routine supplementation. There is also reason to avoid taking megadoses of vitamins, as this can cause toxicity, and even short of toxicity the evidence becomes more compelling at higher doses of the risks of supplementation.
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/vitamins-and-mortality/
Of course you do. It's always debunking the pseudoscientific nonsense you believe in.
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TheDevastator wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »
No if would more likely be doctors that want to push a drug with limited training in nutrition and vitamin therapy.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Those people are called "scientists"TheDevastator wrote: »
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame.christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
Some hospitals (the good ones) give intravenous vitamin C of high doses.
The book is science based and has a lot of references or else the FDA would be after him.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Better yet, base your decisions on science-based medicine rather than quackeryTheDevastator wrote: »You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.
Sorry, but the FDA doesn't work like that. Nutritional advice land is nearly regulation free.
No, the FDA will go after you if you say some vitamin cures some disease.
Please cite this regulation. I would love to bring this up at the next RAPS session.0 -
It's mostly wrong in it's views and attacks alternative medicine with little knowledge of it.FunkyTobias wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »
I was joking. I hate that website.FunkyTobias wrote: »There is no evidence to support routine supplementation. There is also reason to avoid taking megadoses of vitamins, as this can cause toxicity, and even short of toxicity the evidence becomes more compelling at higher doses of the risks of supplementation.
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/vitamins-and-mortality/
Of course you do. It's always debunking the pseudoscientific nonsense you believe in.
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\TheDevastator wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »
No if would more likely be doctors that want to push a drug with limited training in nutrition and vitamin therapy.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Those people are called "scientists"TheDevastator wrote: »
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame.christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
Some hospitals (the good ones) give intravenous vitamin C of high doses.
The book is science based and has a lot of references or else the FDA would be after him.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Better yet, base your decisions on science-based medicine rather than quackeryTheDevastator wrote: »You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.
Sorry, but the FDA doesn't work like that. Nutritional advice land is nearly regulation free.
No, the FDA will go after you if you say some vitamin cures some disease.
Please cite this regulation. I would love to bring this up at the next RAPS session.
I guess you do have to be selling the vitamins and saying they cure a disease but they will target you if you do. Look it up yourself if you want to bring it up at your meeting.0 -
TheDevastator wrote: »\TheDevastator wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »
No if would more likely be doctors that want to push a drug with limited training in nutrition and vitamin therapy.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Those people are called "scientists"TheDevastator wrote: »
There are some people that can't believe that a vitamin will do that and it's a shame.christinev297 wrote: »The proof is in the pudding. Since starting the vitC my condition has greatly improved, so much so that the minor surgery that was booked has been cancelled. Also, My skin has never looked better!!
I won't stay on such a high dose forever. If i get the thumbs up at my next visit, then I will start reducing the dosage.
Some hospitals (the good ones) give intravenous vitamin C of high doses.
The book is science based and has a lot of references or else the FDA would be after him.FunkyTobias wrote: »
Better yet, base your decisions on science-based medicine rather than quackeryTheDevastator wrote: »You might want to check out Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul. It's a very good book.
Sorry, but the FDA doesn't work like that. Nutritional advice land is nearly regulation free.
No, the FDA will go after you if you say some vitamin cures some disease.
Please cite this regulation. I would love to bring this up at the next RAPS session.
I guess you do have to be selling the vitamins and saying they cure a disease but they will target you if you do. Look it up yourself if you want to bring it up at your meeting.
Quite familiar with these - how I makes my livins. All falls under adpromo regulation and must be preapproved.
As an individual you can say whatever the heck you want. You may impact your credibility and whatever organization licenses you may have something to say about it, but as far as the FDA - not their jurisdiction.0 -
TheDevastator wrote: »
It's mostly wrong in it's views and attacks alternative medicine with little knowledge of it.FunkyTobias wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »
I was joking. I hate that website.FunkyTobias wrote: »There is no evidence to support routine supplementation. There is also reason to avoid taking megadoses of vitamins, as this can cause toxicity, and even short of toxicity the evidence becomes more compelling at higher doses of the risks of supplementation.
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/vitamins-and-mortality/
Of course you do. It's always debunking the pseudoscientific nonsense you believe in.
Lol
Point to where they are "wrong"
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I don't think you'll find a "scientist" anywhere who will advocate for natural/alternate medicine. It's a real shame.
I'm very fortunate that my periodontist believes in both.0 -
Name a couple of brands.TheDevastator wrote: »
That's why it's important to choose a good brand.Because then it would defined under a drug category. Honestly, the DSHEA has done a disservice to consumers by not doing a better job with regulation. While vitamins are essential for good health, many sellers don't have to prove that their products meet an actual standard. Companies are only investigated if there's enough complaints by consumers.
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christinev297 wrote: »I don't think you'll find a "scientist" anywhere who will advocate for natural/alternate medicine.
Hmmmm, I wonder why?It's a real shame.
Quite the opposite.
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FunkyTobias wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »I don't think you'll find a "scientist" anywhere who will advocate for natural/alternate medicine.
Hmmmm, I wonder why?It's a real shame.
Quite the opposite.
Not every natural remedy is a sham!
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FunkyTobias wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »I don't think you'll find a "scientist" anywhere who will advocate for natural/alternate medicine.
Hmmmm, I wonder why?It's a real shame.
Quite the opposite.
It's because a lot of that stuff isn't patentable, so it's not worth it to big companies to spend money on the research. When an idea shows promise, and they think they can find an angle (some way of tweaking the product to make it patentable), research is more likely to happen.
Also, there isn't any regulation of natural products in most places, so the formulations aren't standardized, and neither are the cultivation and processing that go into different products. Like there might be twenty ways to do "valerian" (different plant varieties, different parts of the plants, different amounts in a given pill, etc etc). Some might have an effect, others might not.0 -
FunkyTobias wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »I don't think you'll find a "scientist" anywhere who will advocate for natural/alternate medicine.
Hmmmm, I wonder why?It's a real shame.
Quite the opposite.
It's because a lot of that stuff isn't patentable, so it's not worth it to big companies to spend money on the research. When an idea shows promise, and they think they can find an angle (some way of tweaking the product to make it patentable), research is more likely to happen.
bang! There it is. Makes perfect sense. The almighty dollar wins again..
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christinev297 wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »I don't think you'll find a "scientist" anywhere who will advocate for natural/alternate medicine.
Hmmmm, I wonder why?It's a real shame.
Quite the opposite.
It's because a lot of that stuff isn't patentable, so it's not worth it to big companies to spend money on the research. When an idea shows promise, and they think they can find an angle (some way of tweaking the product to make it patentable), research is more likely to happen.
bang! There it is. Makes perfect sense. The almighty dollar wins again..
And so it goes
I personally get a good result from valerian root tincture (sometimes, depending ) (for sleep) 0
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