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If it's all CICO - why can't you outrun a bad diet?
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@richln But if that pizza is all you have in a day and you burn that over the day - surely you would still lose ?
Sure. You can outrun 10,000 calories eaten per day if you have the time and drive to burn 10,001 calories per day. But the phrase exists because it is a lot easier and faster to eat calories than it is to burn them.1 -
"Can you out exercise a high calorie diet?"
Yes some people can - look at how skinny pro cyclists eat 5000+ calories on an event and struggle to retain their bodyweight.
Sledge hauling across Antarctica - 6000+ calories and a very high fat diet but also very rapid weight loss.
For most people living a "normal" lifestyle and exercise routine that's not going to happen.
When I'm doing a long cycle ride and burning thousand of calories I can't eat enough that day but don't find it at all difficult to make that up in the rest of the week!1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »If you are looking for debate, you may want to post this in the debate section.
I've never really understood that saying personally, but to answer your question I think you'd have to first define what is meant by a bad diet. Are we talking about a diet that creates a caloric excess, or a diet that is nutritionally deficient?
I meant a diet that is nutritionally bad - if I eat 2,000 calories worth of cheeseburger a day (I don't!) and burn 3,000 calories in a day with exercise - surely that's outrunning a bad diet?
Yes. But I can sit for an hour and pack away 2-3000 calories of food. I cannot burn 2-3000 calories in an hour.
It is possible to outrun a bad diet (depending on how bad it is), but most people won't. The worse your diet gets (if you're consuming 6-8000 calories a day), it's going to be difficult to spend enough time exercising to compensate for that.
Some people are willing to make the trade off to spend more time at the gym or exercising to earn extra calories, but it takes finding the balance of how much time and effort you're willing to expend and then tailoring your calorie intake to match that level.
I have problems maintaining a 1500 calorie intake to lose weight, so I do cardio and earn more calories. Other people run ultramarathons and run a ton of miles each week. I'm not willing to run that much, so my intake may be lower than theirs (of course, I probably weigh a lot more than many people running ultras, but not all).3 -
This is purely for debate purposes - if weight loss is purely calories in and calories out, why can't you 'outrun a bad diet' - surely if you run enough to burn off the calories of a bad dietary intake, you can for all intents and purposes outrun a bad diet?
If a person is in a caloric deficit surely they will lose irrespective of what their food intake is.
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Great post! I think a lot of people believe solely in the theory of if Calories in are less than Calories out then you will lose weight. What people don't take into account is how your body handles the amount and type of calories you put into your body. Take in 2,000 calories all in one meal and your body is going to turn some of that fuel into fat once glycogen stores are full. Take the same 2,000 calories in over 6 meals and your body will use and store the fuel differently. How about your body processes alcohol in a completely different way than food? How about a diet that is low in carbs like a keto or Atkins style? You body changes what it uses for fuel.
When I am getting my body fat into the single digits I have to eat super clean low carb to get there. Even though I run 30+ miles per week. When I cheat and add Ice Cream and pizza into my diet I notice my abs start to go away pretty quickly even though I keep my calorie intake the same.
My $.022 -
You can out run it if you want to bad enough. It is not practical for the normal person that is not in training such as an elite athlete to spend that much time in the gym or running on the streets to do that.
And yes eating 2000 calories of cheeseburgers and fries in a day and then burning 3000 calories is outrunning what I call poor nutritional choices..
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It's a pointless slogan - you can't outrun (or out exercise) a calorie surplus.
Well, no *kitten*4 -
I've always interpreted it to mean, that you're not going to lose weight without a little planning. You can't just eat whatever you want and then expect to exercise off the extra calories later. (You can try, we've all been there! But you can't regularly rely on this approach.) You're supposed to work your activity level into your calorie goals.1
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Some people can, and they likely aren't having an issue with weight gain. Most of us will find that we have to be at least a little bit mindful even at a very high activity level. That's all it means to me (and like the 80/20 thing I think it's largely not that meaningful and don't care for it as a saying).0
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parfia, you can "outrun a bad diet", but why would you want your body to be consuming all the crap? wouldn't you rather eat foods that are good for your body and "outrun" less?????0
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This guy ate all 'bad' food (whatever that means) and still lost weight and improved his health markers.
In the debate section:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10348650/cico-still-skeptical-come-inside-for-a-meticulous-log-that-proves-it/p11 -
This is purely for debate purposes - if weight loss is purely calories in and calories out, why can't you 'outrun a bad diet' - surely if you run enough to burn off the calories of a bad dietary intake, you can for all intents and purposes outrun a bad diet?
If a person is in a caloric deficit surely they will lose irrespective of what their food intake is.
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Bad diet = adding more calories than you burb
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sstolii123 wrote: »
Great post! I think a lot of people believe solely in the theory of if Calories in are less than Calories out then you will lose weight. What people don't take into account is how your body handles the amount and type of calories you put into your body. Take in 2,000 calories all in one meal and your body is going to turn some of that fuel into fat once glycogen stores are full. Take the same 2,000 calories in over 6 meals and your body will use and store the fuel differently.
That's true on a minute by minute basis, but what you aren't seeing is that, although eating all the calories at once creates more fat after the meal, it also means you burn more fat in between meals, because you go longer without any external source of calories. So on a time scale of days or weeks, it's irrelevant. Everyone builds and burns fat over portions of each day, what matters is the net creation or loss of fat over a long time, not the fluctuation of fat over a day.
In fact, there's a very slight weight loss advantage to the single meal, because every time you transform the molecule storing energy (carbohydrate-> acetyl CoA -> lipid -> acetyl CoA) you lose at least some energy to entropy. It's not significant, though, so the most important factor is how well you can keep to any given eating pattern, and how well that pattern helps you stay on target for your goals.5 -
I think we've all seen the people who are going to 'get in shape' and they've got the new gym membership and the new FitBit and the new exercise clothes and the sporty new shoes...but they haven't bothered to change their diet.
They work out for a few weeks and don't see the scale drop---because they've still not created a deficit---and they give up.
So, for many many people, the saying "you can't outrun a bad diet" is very helpful.6 -
Put your headphones on and start your running app. Run until it says "you have burned 1000 calories", for me between 7 and 8 miles. Now go straight to McDonalds and eat a big mac & fries. Tell me which one takes longer to do, there you will find the answer.5
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It's another one of these oft-trotted out health and fitness phrases that doesn't really hold any value.WinoGelato wrote: »If you are looking for debate, you may want to post this in the debate section.
I've never really understood that saying personally, but to answer your question I think you'd have to first define what is meant by a bad diet. Are we talking about a diet that creates a caloric excess, or a diet that is nutritionally deficient?
I meant a diet that is nutritionally bad - if I eat 2,000 calories worth of cheeseburger a day (I don't!) and burn 3,000 calories in a day with exercise - surely that's outrunning a bad diet?
That's outrunning the calorie element of your dietary intake.
As running doesn't provide any dietary nutrients, you aren't outrunning the nutritional aspect.
But if a calorie is a calorie - why does it matter where it comes from?
Because a calorie is a measurement of energy, and nothing more. From an energy standpoint it doesn't matter where that measurement of energy comes from.
Energy and nutrients are a completely different thing, as is weight loss and 'good' nutrition.2 -
Put your headphones on and start your running app. Run until it says "you have burned 1000 calories", for me between 7 and 8 miles. Now go straight to McDonalds and eat a big mac & fries. Tell me which one takes longer to do, there you will find the answer.
Do you get a different answer if you eat really, really, really slowly?7 -
Also, one of the main reasons for the saying is that increasing exercise increases hunger too. If your hunger/satiety system is leading you to obesity when you're sedentary and eating as much as you please, you'll probably still be in obesity if you're active and eating as much as you please, because you'll eat more to compensate.
It's also true that diet is a much more powerful means to control weight than exercise, because in most cases, particularly among the very heavy, the effort involved in eating 500 fewer calories is a lot less than the effort involved in burning 500 more calories.2 -
Put your headphones on and start your running app. Run until it says "you have burned 1000 calories", for me between 7 and 8 miles. Now go straight to McDonalds and eat a big mac & fries. Tell me which one takes longer to do, there you will find the answer.
Do you get a different answer if you eat really, really, really slowly?
Or get lost on the way?3 -
Put your headphones on and start your running app. Run until it says "you have burned 1000 calories", for me between 7 and 8 miles. Now go straight to McDonalds and eat a big mac & fries. Tell me which one takes longer to do, there you will find the answer.
if that is your first meal of the day eh...you will be fine..
bad diet does not refer to nutrition.0 -
This statement is made because people use exercise as the counter measure for eating in excess. Many believe all one has to do is exercise to lose weight. And that's just not true unless there's a calorie deficit.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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This is purely for debate purposes - if weight loss is purely calories in and calories out, why can't you 'outrun a bad diet' - surely if you run enough to burn off the calories of a bad dietary intake, you can for all intents and purposes outrun a bad diet?
If a person is in a caloric deficit surely they will lose irrespective of what their food intake is.
begin.....
First you have to define what a bad diet is. IMO, it is a diet that puts the dieter in an unintentional surplus with inadequate nutrients. You can break it down further. A diet with inadequate nutrients, even in a deficit is, IMO a bad diet. A surplus (for bulking purposes) with adequate nutrients), IMO is a good diet. See how this can get confusing? So when someone says, you can't out run or out train a bad diet, I would say, it depends...1 -
Put your headphones on and start your running app. Run until it says "you have burned 1000 calories", for me between 7 and 8 miles. Now go straight to McDonalds and eat a big mac & fries. Tell me which one takes longer to do, there you will find the answer.
Do you get a different answer if you eat really, really, really slowly?
LOL, this goes back to my moment that I had first run to that 1000 calorie mark and later at lunch went to McDonald's to get a chicken wrap and maybe fries. The sign said 450 calories.....as a meal 1300 calories. I gave up fries and sweet tea that day and very rarely even go to McDonald's anymore. If I had to work that hard to burn it I wasn't going to refuel that quickly. I actually prefer fresh produce over calorie dense junk now. I never saw that one coming.3 -
This is purely for debate purposes - if weight loss is purely calories in and calories out, why can't you 'outrun a bad diet' - surely if you run enough to burn off the calories of a bad dietary intake, you can for all intents and purposes outrun a bad diet?
begin.....
Happily ... you can!
I remained very slender for years because I was cycling 10,000 km/year + walking lots + cross country skiing and snowshoeing + lifting weights + generally being as active as I could.
Most of the year, I had trouble eating enough to maintain my weight, so during the winter when my cycling slowed a little, I would eat quite a lot and deliberately gain some weight. Come spring, I'd start losing and by autumn, I was usually underweight.
For me, 5000 calories in a 24 hour period was all I could manage ... couldn't stuff more in. And on days when I was cycling 24 hours (yes, I'm an ultra-distance cyclists ... 24 hour time trials, randonneuring, and all that), I needed every one of those 5000 calories.
I remember wandering through grocery stores looking for the smallest but highest calorie foods because I just got so sick of eating. I chuckle to think of it now, but I recall standing there looking at the calorie count for various things when another customer spoke up and said, "They're all so high in calories", and she sighed. I shook my head and said, "Not high enough". She walked away quickly.
Anyway, yes ... if you exercise and burn more than you consume, you can for all intents and purposes outrun a bad diet. However, you do have to exercise a lot ... and you can't go completely crazy with the eating.
You would be what we like to call a special snowflake. Few people move at your level, but many eat at that level, hence the obesity issue.2 -
If you are in a deficit you will lose, if you are in a surplus you will gain no matter what you eat!!3
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^^^^^its simple math!0
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It's another one of these oft-trotted out health and fitness phrases that doesn't really hold any value.WinoGelato wrote: »If you are looking for debate, you may want to post this in the debate section.
I've never really understood that saying personally, but to answer your question I think you'd have to first define what is meant by a bad diet. Are we talking about a diet that creates a caloric excess, or a diet that is nutritionally deficient?
I meant a diet that is nutritionally bad - if I eat 2,000 calories worth of cheeseburger a day (I don't!) and burn 3,000 calories in a day with exercise - surely that's outrunning a bad diet?
That's outrunning the calorie element of your dietary intake.
As running doesn't provide any dietary nutrients, you aren't outrunning the nutritional aspect.
But if a calorie is a calorie - why does it matter where it comes from?
The effect of the said calorie on the body may not be identical for all calories from all sources.
When you ask a Question starting "If..... " you should consider the case where the presumption is incorrect. "If water flows uphill under the influence of gravity alone,what can you say about the system involved".0 -
Yes, in this instance, "bad diet" refers to excess calories.0
This discussion has been closed.
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