Alcohol and Society

betsym3 wrote: »

we have spent A LOT of money on his alcohol, three DWI's, increased car insurance premiums, damaged vehicles, the cost of three rehabs, fines, etc.

The problem isn't the alcohol; it's that the person you're describing is an a-hole.

I love drinking. I drink daily, sometimes to excess. I love beer and bourbon.

That said, I don't drink and drive, because I'm not an idiot. Addiction doesn't cause people to get DWIs or wreck their cars. Being an a-hole does.

Alcohol by itself is neither harmful nor helpful.

betsym3 wrote: »

Alcoholic behavior is not fun!

My gf and I are both very happy, functional, educated, well-paid alcoholics. It's tons of fun!

I watch the show drunk history. It's funny while still being interesting.

newmeadow wrote: »

Need2Exerc1se wrote: »

But I'd have to say I do not think there is anything wrong with it on a societal level.

But have you ever slept in the same bed with a person sleeping off three Absolut on the rocks and a bottle of wine? With the windows closed? The room filling stench of partially metabolized alcohol seeping out of their pores...it's like with the smokers - they can't smell it on themselves. And then they want to roll over for an innocent little smooch. It's societally devastating.

Not society's problem who someone sleeps with.

Alcohol is an intrinsic part of my family's background and culture, going back for centuries to the vineyards of France, the breweries of Germany, the mead of the Vikings and Anglo Saxons, and the peat-smoked barley whisky of Scotland. Or even the cider that we just celebrated this past weekend with a festival dedicated to Johnny Appleseed and his distribution of cider orchards throughout PA, OH and IN. Think of the sad state English literature would be in if we didn't have Beowulf's mead hall or Tolkein's snug little hobbits and their pints, if we just had to settle for the grim naggings of the Puritans (although even they allowed themselves plenty of beer). Like food, it is a gift from God (or a fortuitous if random evolutionary occurrence, if that is your thing), but also like food, it is a double-edged sword when the blessing is abused. Like fire, it can warm your body and heart and bring joy and fellowship, but also like fire, when abused and mishandled, it can kill and destroy.

As Ben Franklin said, "We hear of the conversion of water into wine at the marriage in Cana as of a miracle. But this conversion is, through the goodness of God, made every day before our eyes. Behold the rain which descends from heaven upon our vineyards; there it enters the roots of the vines, to be changed into wine; a constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy. The miracle in question was only performed to hasten the operation, under circumstances of present necessity, which required it."

I have a grandfather on one side who was an alcoholic till late in life, and an uncle on the other side who is still in its grips, and it has led to a lot of sadness in his life. I have made my share of stupid choices in my youth, which helped me develop wisdom as I aged. As for my own household, my husband and I love seeking out new craft brews or ciders and breweries in our travels, or enjoying the sight of vines covering a hillside in California or Michigan. I can't imagine spending my life sleeping next to a drunk stinking of alcohol....but I do count myself lucky that my adorable, sensible husband didn't object to sleeping next to me following what we refer to as the "Pedal Bar/White Russian/Burning-Christmas-Trees-in-May Incident," and indeed assisted me in safely achieving my bonfire objective. I am fortunate that, when I think of alcohol, I mostly think of happy times, and can appreciate it as a cultural treasure. We work very hard to engrain a common sense attitude with our children and to underscore the need for respect and moderation, so that they can be sensible when they go off to college and face rampant campus douchebaggery, with everyone raping everyone else and suchlike. Also, it is much harder to make an @ss of yourself with a $10 bottle of craft cider or a $50 bottle of wine than it is with a fifth of cheap gin or a 24-pack of Natty Light.

Michael Pollan's "The Botany of Desire" has some interesting thoughts on how cultures have allowed and forbidden drugs, and contrasts these with his section on the breeding of apples (esp. for cider) and marijuana.

As for nothing good coming from alcohol, research is increasingly showing that sensible use of wine and beer correlates with notable health benefits--when limited to one or two drinks a day. My mother, a staunch Methodist, also used to claim that nothing good ever came from the alcohol trade, but after marrying a Lutheran, I have since corrupted my tee-totaling parents, and they now maintain a modest selection of wines and ciders.

I find this fascinating - the need of certain people to project beliefs onto others.

I grew up in a nearly all German town in the US. Each family put their own spin on beer/wine/spirits and consumed at nearly every meal and special occasion. It was just a normal issue and people rarely if ever drank to excess. If anyone did they would be ridiculed for the next week or so for not being able to handle themselves. I remember splitting a beer with my Dad around age 12 after spending a morning splitting up wood. I remember going to every graduation party and beer/wine being served. No one drove - everyone brought sleeping bags/tents and slept over.

This all changed when our community became a bedroom community for St. Louis and a few do-gooder tea-teetotalers moved in and decided to crack down on this and decided that underage drinking was a problem. After this kids started sneaking out to drink, because it was made taboo. Rather than drinking in a responsible manner and setting, they moved to the back-roads. DUIs, alcohol related deaths, and binge drinking increased overnight.

Cultures that remove the criminality and taboo from this do well. Attempts at prohibition and over regulation never succeed and always end up in worse situations than the original perceived problem.