Why do some people struggle with losing weight?
Replies
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
But you're still missing their point, too. With Max elliptical or heavy weights, one could still overly estimate their calorie burn and eat way too much, finding themselves unable to lose at their desired pace. They're explaining their chosen, or in some cases, designated forms of exercise to you, and how this could be max exertion, not to mention result getting, for themGallowmere1984 wrote: »I absolutely count walking my dog as exercise.
Yes, that's just part of life in some ways, but I'd argue that going to the gym is also part of life for those that choose to include that. Plus before we had the dog, I was definitely walking less so it's not actually part of my life-without-dog.
I'm not physically able to do some types of exercise (thanks to an old injury), and some I just don't like. Including things I can do and enjoy is actually a much better way for me to get exercise than trying to make a habit of something that just is not going to happen.
(sorry, this was meant to be a reply to some up-thread posts but I have managed to muck up the quoting! Oops.)
It's fine, it's obvious that you were replying to either my post, or one that replied to it. I think a lot of people missed my point in the noise that followed. So long as you realize that walking your dog is not equivalent to setting an elliptical to max resistance, or doing metabolic work with weights, it's fine to consider it exercise. It's the mental aspect that seems to trip up some. Exercise usually translates into the need to eat more, and with the excessive burn estimates, a chronic dog walker could be duped into believing that they "deserve" or even "need" that extra thousand calories that they didn't actually burn.
I have yet to meet a person who legitimately trains hard and doesn't have their diet in at least some kind of check to begin with. I do however, see a lot of "dogwalkers and housecleaners" who are confused as to why they aren't losing weight.
There are an awful lot of powerlifters who carry some serious excess body fat for this to be necessarily true.
That is a good point, but most of the time, one could easily argue that those guys know EXACTLY what they are doing. I see it the most among the "nattybro" powerlifters who try to chase the numbers of guys on gear using cheeseburgers as fuel. CT Fletcher was actually a prime example of this years ago, and it nearly killed him.
Except CT Fletcher wasn't/isn't natty
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trigden1991 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
But you're still missing their point, too. With Max elliptical or heavy weights, one could still overly estimate their calorie burn and eat way too much, finding themselves unable to lose at their desired pace. They're explaining their chosen, or in some cases, designated forms of exercise to you, and how this could be max exertion, not to mention result getting, for themGallowmere1984 wrote: »I absolutely count walking my dog as exercise.
Yes, that's just part of life in some ways, but I'd argue that going to the gym is also part of life for those that choose to include that. Plus before we had the dog, I was definitely walking less so it's not actually part of my life-without-dog.
I'm not physically able to do some types of exercise (thanks to an old injury), and some I just don't like. Including things I can do and enjoy is actually a much better way for me to get exercise than trying to make a habit of something that just is not going to happen.
(sorry, this was meant to be a reply to some up-thread posts but I have managed to muck up the quoting! Oops.)
It's fine, it's obvious that you were replying to either my post, or one that replied to it. I think a lot of people missed my point in the noise that followed. So long as you realize that walking your dog is not equivalent to setting an elliptical to max resistance, or doing metabolic work with weights, it's fine to consider it exercise. It's the mental aspect that seems to trip up some. Exercise usually translates into the need to eat more, and with the excessive burn estimates, a chronic dog walker could be duped into believing that they "deserve" or even "need" that extra thousand calories that they didn't actually burn.
I have yet to meet a person who legitimately trains hard and doesn't have their diet in at least some kind of check to begin with. I do however, see a lot of "dogwalkers and housecleaners" who are confused as to why they aren't losing weight.
There are an awful lot of powerlifters who carry some serious excess body fat for this to be necessarily true.
That is a good point, but most of the time, one could easily argue that those guys know EXACTLY what they are doing. I see it the most among the "nattybro" powerlifters who try to chase the numbers of guys on gear using cheeseburgers as fuel. CT Fletcher was actually a prime example of this years ago, and it nearly killed him.
Except CT Fletcher wasn't/isn't natty
Likely not, but check out his videos from the 90s. I'm not sure how diligent they were about testing back then (I know Coan got popped a few times), but seriously, this dude was eating stupid amounts of fast food and was fat as hell when chasing bench records (and setting the last strict curl record), and he absolutely looked like it, and even acknowledged this fact a few times in the videos.0 -
TIL it's okay to be fat if you're chasing lifting records, but not your dog 6
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
Well, *kitten*. I thought that was such an obvious joke, but forgot who I was talking to! (You haven't been secretive about your views on that topic). For the record I think it's okay to be whatever shape you are, especially if you're happy with it!2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
Well, *kitten*. I thought that was such an obvious joke, but forgot who I was talking to! (You haven't been secretive about your views on that topic). For the record I think it's okay to be whatever shape you are, especially if you're happy with it!
I'm cool with people being whatever they want, with two conditions. 1: they are actually happy with themselves, and not publicly smiling while contemplating swallowing razorblades in private. 2: their condition does not interfere with the doings of others. Unfortunately, 2 is commonly problematic. When it takes me an extra 40 minutes to shop, due to the trundling hoardes of adipose tissue in my way, I take issue with it.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
Well, *kitten*. I thought that was such an obvious joke, but forgot who I was talking to! (You haven't been secretive about your views on that topic). For the record I think it's okay to be whatever shape you are, especially if you're happy with it!
I'm cool with people being whatever they want, with two conditions. 1: they are actually happy with themselves, and not publicly smiling while contemplating swallowing razorblades in private. 2: their condition does not interfere with the doings of others. Unfortunately, 2 is commonly problematic. When it takes me an extra 40 minutes to shop, due to the trundling hoardes of adipose tissue in my way, I take issue with it.
LOL. I actually don't remember the last time it took me forty minutes to do any kind of shopping. Maybe you need to clean up your shopping (and other) skillz rather than looking for others to blame for the inconveniences in your life.8 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
Well, *kitten*. I thought that was such an obvious joke, but forgot who I was talking to! (You haven't been secretive about your views on that topic). For the record I think it's okay to be whatever shape you are, especially if you're happy with it!
I'm cool with people being whatever they want, with two conditions. 1: they are actually happy with themselves, and not publicly smiling while contemplating swallowing razorblades in private. 2: their condition does not interfere with the doings of others. Unfortunately, 2 is commonly problematic. When it takes me an extra 40 minutes to shop, due to the trundling hoardes of adipose tissue in my way, I take issue with it.
Do you honestly get inconvenienced by people specifically because those people are fat?17 -
I don't get that either. I get inconvenienced by people wandering slowly through the aisles in a trance, or staring into space with their trolley parked crosswise across the aisle, or leaping unexpectedly out in front of me and then stopping. I can honestly say the BMI of the offender has never factored into the equation.
Anyway, I honestly reckon the whole thing is my fault for even venturing into the supermarket at e.g. 5pm on a weekday or on a Saturday afternoon, as I am no doubt inconveniencing everyone else as much as they are inconveniencing me.8 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
@Helloitsdan I remember you from the old days of this forum and IPOARM and EMTWL helped me immensely when I was starting out here. But your need to constantly disparage and berate those of us trying to give advice here on these forums is getting tiresome.
It's a stock answer that's simplistic and forgoes the complexity of obesity.
After educating myself and while building a business based around helping GenPop clients lose weight and live healthy lives, it's not always the answer CICO.
I'm not disparaging the help, I simply want people to use critical thinking when giving advice. You think it's tiresome here? Try convincing someone who's taught by their parents that they cannot eat food that day if they weigh more than the number on the white board.
This is an ever growing issue across the world with obesity on the rise. Telling someone "Eat less and move more" doesn't address the complex issues underlying what's really making them overweight. It could be calories. It could be a billion other issues too!
So while CICO applies, the issue is far more complex and I'll not apologize to you or any of the other posters who take issue with me or how I address healthy living.
You have to understand that along with all of the paradigm shifts in nutrition over the past 50 years, along with countless others to come, you cannot state with absolute certainty that it's CICO.
Please don't see my post as disparaging. Please see it as an opening for you and the others to use critical thinking and ask questions so we can all help the people who need it the most.
Please don't see my post as disparaging, but it doesn't sound like you know what CICO means. It just says that if you consume (CI) more calories than your body uses (CO), it will be stored by your body. If you have an energy (calorie) deficit, you will have to use some of your energy stores (or reduce your activity or other bodily functions, but that's actually an adjustment on the CO side). All the other details in that "map" you linked to are just factors that affect CI or CO, or affect adherence, which in turn affects CI or CO. They don't change the fact that CICO is a valid description of what's going on. Has your critical thinking led to believe that your body creates energy out of nothing, or makes it disappear without using it or storing it?
Also, when you tell people that they are part of a pack mentality and don't use critical thinking, and then claim that you're not disparaging them, ... well, I don't know whether you're incapable of recognizing what you're doing, in denial, or simply disingenuous.
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that was me. I ate healthy & couldn't lose weight. I got defensive, when say, my Dr told me to lose weight becuz I don't drink soda, eat pasta, no fast foods, hardly ever eat sugar, bread or potatoes so what can i cut out?? I was eating 2 times a day. I'm active too. Well, I must have been eating enough calories to maintain my over weight, because I'm down 25 lbs eating bread, potatoes almost daily, along with protein & veggies/fruit & sometimes ice cream etc4
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
@Helloitsdan I remember you from the old days of this forum and IPOARM and EMTWL helped me immensely when I was starting out here. But your need to constantly disparage and berate those of us trying to give advice here on these forums is getting tiresome.
It's a stock answer that's simplistic and forgoes the complexity of obesity.
After educating myself and while building a business based around helping GenPop clients lose weight and live healthy lives, it's not always the answer CICO.
I'm not disparaging the help, I simply want people to use critical thinking when giving advice. You think it's tiresome here? Try convincing someone who's taught by their parents that they cannot eat food that day if they weigh more than the number on the white board.
This is an ever growing issue across the world with obesity on the rise. Telling someone "Eat less and move more" doesn't address the complex issues underlying what's really making them overweight. It could be calories. It could be a billion other issues too!
So while CICO applies, the issue is far more complex and I'll not apologize to you or any of the other posters who take issue with me or how I address healthy living.
You have to understand that along with all of the paradigm shifts in nutrition over the past 50 years, along with countless others to come, you cannot state with absolute certainty that it's CICO.
Please don't see my post as disparaging. Please see it as an opening for you and the others to use critical thinking and ask questions so we can all help the people who need it the most.
Please don't see my post as disparaging, but it doesn't sound like you know what CICO means. It just says that if you consume (CI) more calories than your body uses (CO), it will be stored by your body. If you have an energy (calorie) deficit, you will have to use some of your energy stores (or reduce your activity or other bodily functions, but that's actually an adjustment on the CO side). All the other details in that "map" you linked to are just factors that affect CI or CO, or affect adherence, which in turn affects CI or CO. They don't change the fact that CICO is a valid description of what's going on. Has your critical thinking led to believe that your body creates energy out of nothing, or makes it disappear without using it or storing it?
Also, when you tell people that they are part of a pack mentality and don't use critical thinking, and then claim that you're not disparaging them, ... well, I don't know whether you're incapable of recognizing what you're doing, in denial, or simply disingenuous.
Honestly he confuses me...This poster says CICO is complex, yet on the motivation thread he tells a guy to start taking fish oil and he will start losing weight.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
@Helloitsdan I remember you from the old days of this forum and IPOARM and EMTWL helped me immensely when I was starting out here. But your need to constantly disparage and berate those of us trying to give advice here on these forums is getting tiresome.
It's a stock answer that's simplistic and forgoes the complexity of obesity.
After educating myself and while building a business based around helping GenPop clients lose weight and live healthy lives, it's not always the answer CICO.
I'm not disparaging the help, I simply want people to use critical thinking when giving advice. You think it's tiresome here? Try convincing someone who's taught by their parents that they cannot eat food that day if they weigh more than the number on the white board.
This is an ever growing issue across the world with obesity on the rise. Telling someone "Eat less and move more" doesn't address the complex issues underlying what's really making them overweight. It could be calories. It could be a billion other issues too!
So while CICO applies, the issue is far more complex and I'll not apologize to you or any of the other posters who take issue with me or how I address healthy living.
You have to understand that along with all of the paradigm shifts in nutrition over the past 50 years, along with countless others to come, you cannot state with absolute certainty that it's CICO.
Please don't see my post as disparaging. Please see it as an opening for you and the others to use critical thinking and ask questions so we can all help the people who need it the most.
Please don't see my post as disparaging, but it doesn't sound like you know what CICO means. It just says that if you consume (CI) more calories than your body uses (CO), it will be stored by your body. If you have an energy (calorie) deficit, you will have to use some of your energy stores (or reduce your activity or other bodily functions, but that's actually an adjustment on the CO side). All the other details in that "map" you linked to are just factors that affect CI or CO, or affect adherence, which in turn affects CI or CO. They don't change the fact that CICO is a valid description of what's going on. Has your critical thinking led to believe that your body creates energy out of nothing, or makes it disappear without using it or storing it?
Also, when you tell people that they are part of a pack mentality and don't use critical thinking, and then claim that you're not disparaging them, ... well, I don't know whether you're incapable of recognizing what you're doing, in denial, or simply disingenuous.
Honestly he confuses me...This poster says CICO is complex, yet on the motivation thread he tells a guy to start taking fish oil and he will start losing weight.
You are kidding, right?1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
@Helloitsdan I remember you from the old days of this forum and IPOARM and EMTWL helped me immensely when I was starting out here. But your need to constantly disparage and berate those of us trying to give advice here on these forums is getting tiresome.
It's a stock answer that's simplistic and forgoes the complexity of obesity.
After educating myself and while building a business based around helping GenPop clients lose weight and live healthy lives, it's not always the answer CICO.
I'm not disparaging the help, I simply want people to use critical thinking when giving advice. You think it's tiresome here? Try convincing someone who's taught by their parents that they cannot eat food that day if they weigh more than the number on the white board.
This is an ever growing issue across the world with obesity on the rise. Telling someone "Eat less and move more" doesn't address the complex issues underlying what's really making them overweight. It could be calories. It could be a billion other issues too!
So while CICO applies, the issue is far more complex and I'll not apologize to you or any of the other posters who take issue with me or how I address healthy living.
You have to understand that along with all of the paradigm shifts in nutrition over the past 50 years, along with countless others to come, you cannot state with absolute certainty that it's CICO.
Please don't see my post as disparaging. Please see it as an opening for you and the others to use critical thinking and ask questions so we can all help the people who need it the most.
Please don't see my post as disparaging, but it doesn't sound like you know what CICO means. It just says that if you consume (CI) more calories than your body uses (CO), it will be stored by your body. If you have an energy (calorie) deficit, you will have to use some of your energy stores (or reduce your activity or other bodily functions, but that's actually an adjustment on the CO side). All the other details in that "map" you linked to are just factors that affect CI or CO, or affect adherence, which in turn affects CI or CO. They don't change the fact that CICO is a valid description of what's going on. Has your critical thinking led to believe that your body creates energy out of nothing, or makes it disappear without using it or storing it?
Also, when you tell people that they are part of a pack mentality and don't use critical thinking, and then claim that you're not disparaging them, ... well, I don't know whether you're incapable of recognizing what you're doing, in denial, or simply disingenuous.
Honestly he confuses me...This poster says CICO is complex, yet on the motivation thread he tells a guy to start taking fish oil and he will start losing weight.
You are kidding, right?
I wish I was....
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10482663/why-cant-i-get-motivated#latest1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
@Helloitsdan I remember you from the old days of this forum and IPOARM and EMTWL helped me immensely when I was starting out here. But your need to constantly disparage and berate those of us trying to give advice here on these forums is getting tiresome.
It's a stock answer that's simplistic and forgoes the complexity of obesity.
After educating myself and while building a business based around helping GenPop clients lose weight and live healthy lives, it's not always the answer CICO.
I'm not disparaging the help, I simply want people to use critical thinking when giving advice. You think it's tiresome here? Try convincing someone who's taught by their parents that they cannot eat food that day if they weigh more than the number on the white board.
This is an ever growing issue across the world with obesity on the rise. Telling someone "Eat less and move more" doesn't address the complex issues underlying what's really making them overweight. It could be calories. It could be a billion other issues too!
So while CICO applies, the issue is far more complex and I'll not apologize to you or any of the other posters who take issue with me or how I address healthy living.
You have to understand that along with all of the paradigm shifts in nutrition over the past 50 years, along with countless others to come, you cannot state with absolute certainty that it's CICO.
Please don't see my post as disparaging. Please see it as an opening for you and the others to use critical thinking and ask questions so we can all help the people who need it the most.
Please don't see my post as disparaging, but it doesn't sound like you know what CICO means. It just says that if you consume (CI) more calories than your body uses (CO), it will be stored by your body. If you have an energy (calorie) deficit, you will have to use some of your energy stores (or reduce your activity or other bodily functions, but that's actually an adjustment on the CO side). All the other details in that "map" you linked to are just factors that affect CI or CO, or affect adherence, which in turn affects CI or CO. They don't change the fact that CICO is a valid description of what's going on. Has your critical thinking led to believe that your body creates energy out of nothing, or makes it disappear without using it or storing it?
Also, when you tell people that they are part of a pack mentality and don't use critical thinking, and then claim that you're not disparaging them, ... well, I don't know whether you're incapable of recognizing what you're doing, in denial, or simply disingenuous.
Honestly he confuses me...This poster says CICO is complex, yet on the motivation thread he tells a guy to start taking fish oil and he will start losing weight.
You are kidding, right?
I wish I was....
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10482663/why-cant-i-get-motivated#latest
"You're losing weight from the fish oil"
I. can't. even.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Helloitsdan wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I've known people, who eat healthy, drink plenty of water and exercise a lot. They always have trouble losing weight. What's gone wrong?
Most people will say CICO, however...
http://www.shiftn.com/obesity/Full-Map.html
It's far more complex.
Too bad we can't simply install critical thinking to the pack mentality on this forum.
@Helloitsdan I remember you from the old days of this forum and IPOARM and EMTWL helped me immensely when I was starting out here. But your need to constantly disparage and berate those of us trying to give advice here on these forums is getting tiresome.
It's a stock answer that's simplistic and forgoes the complexity of obesity.
After educating myself and while building a business based around helping GenPop clients lose weight and live healthy lives, it's not always the answer CICO.
I'm not disparaging the help, I simply want people to use critical thinking when giving advice. You think it's tiresome here? Try convincing someone who's taught by their parents that they cannot eat food that day if they weigh more than the number on the white board.
This is an ever growing issue across the world with obesity on the rise. Telling someone "Eat less and move more" doesn't address the complex issues underlying what's really making them overweight. It could be calories. It could be a billion other issues too!
So while CICO applies, the issue is far more complex and I'll not apologize to you or any of the other posters who take issue with me or how I address healthy living.
You have to understand that along with all of the paradigm shifts in nutrition over the past 50 years, along with countless others to come, you cannot state with absolute certainty that it's CICO.
Please don't see my post as disparaging. Please see it as an opening for you and the others to use critical thinking and ask questions so we can all help the people who need it the most.
Please don't see my post as disparaging, but it doesn't sound like you know what CICO means. It just says that if you consume (CI) more calories than your body uses (CO), it will be stored by your body. If you have an energy (calorie) deficit, you will have to use some of your energy stores (or reduce your activity or other bodily functions, but that's actually an adjustment on the CO side). All the other details in that "map" you linked to are just factors that affect CI or CO, or affect adherence, which in turn affects CI or CO. They don't change the fact that CICO is a valid description of what's going on. Has your critical thinking led to believe that your body creates energy out of nothing, or makes it disappear without using it or storing it?
Also, when you tell people that they are part of a pack mentality and don't use critical thinking, and then claim that you're not disparaging them, ... well, I don't know whether you're incapable of recognizing what you're doing, in denial, or simply disingenuous.
Honestly he confuses me...This poster says CICO is complex, yet on the motivation thread he tells a guy to start taking fish oil and he will start losing weight.
You are kidding, right?
I wish I was....
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10482663/why-cant-i-get-motivated#latest
"You're losing weight from the fish oil"
I. can't. even.
I checked this out too--he really just tells the guy to take fish oil and a vitamin first thing in the morning and after a month he'll have lost weight without changing eating habits. Hard to believe.2 -
I just...And...What?? LOL0
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Bums me out.
I had some hope for him since he is also studying psychology. I think it would help some people understand why they can't control their CI. Oh well.
Going to by some fish oil just in case
2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
Well, *kitten*. I thought that was such an obvious joke, but forgot who I was talking to! (You haven't been secretive about your views on that topic). For the record I think it's okay to be whatever shape you are, especially if you're happy with it!
I'm cool with people being whatever they want, with two conditions. 1: they are actually happy with themselves, and not publicly smiling while contemplating swallowing razorblades in private. 2: their condition does not interfere with the doings of others. Unfortunately, 2 is commonly problematic. When it takes me an extra 40 minutes to shop, due to the trundling hoardes of adipose tissue in my way, I take issue with it.
Do you honestly get inconvenienced by people specifically because those people are fat?
You can't tell me that you've never had to walk a six aisle circuit because the five you needed to get down were impossible to navigate without trying to play running back through motorized carts and people who can barely get out of their own way. If not, I might consider moving where you live.0 -
Bums me out.
I had some hope for him since he is also studying psychology. I think it would help some people understand why they can't control their CI. Oh well.
Going to by some fish oil just in case
I might be one of the few people fish oil (and flax oil) supplements make lose weight. Hours after taking them, I have unfortunate consequences from them. Of the explosive kind. It's awful.
Somehow, I doubt that's what he's talking about.
ETA: FTR, I know I've posted that I'm vegetarian on the forums, but in a bad spell with my arthritis, I tried fish oil on my doctor's recommendation. It didn't ... end... well. It was a very brief experiment. When it comes down to a debilitating condition vs. ethics... sorry fishy.2
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