what NOT to eat
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WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »A fresh banana isn't "processed" -- It is raw. I think of "processed" as refined, preserved, and/or cooked. Gerber banana baby food has been processed.
It's been processed with processed bananas bought in the grocery store. You have to go to a factory in southeast Asia if you want a fresh banana.
It might be ripened. But fresh raw banana is not "processed".
WinoGelato was not saying that they were (as it is her post that provoked this sidetrack).
However, as I said above:
(1) I often cook bananas, so those are processed.
(2) As others noted, the banana has been modified over time by humans, so the idea that humans changing stuff (the anti-processing argument) makes something bad would also apply to bananas.
(And I'd also agree with various posters that doesn't make it processed as we normally use the term, but it does make it relevant to the assertion that processed=bad.)
Actually for the record I didn't bring up bananas and am not sure how any stance on bananas is being attributed to me. I can't stand bananas!
The first mention I saw of bananas in this thread was the infographic someone else posted about the chemical makeup of a banana, and then in a response quoting me wanzik made a comment that calling a banana processed is silly, or something like that.
Ah. You brought up the 5 foods people shouldn't eat and I associated that with the why you should not eat bananas thing. My apologies.
Anyway, you didn't say bananas were processed! I'm still right about that. ;-)0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I have a huge bag of salted cashews sitting in my cupboard that I'm too scared to open...
'Cause processed?
(Kidding, I expect it's because salted nuts are basically crack.* Or at least I also cannot stop eating them.)
*Not serious.1 -
stevencloser wrote: »
Sorry but that's like "comparing apples and oranges". (Pun intended)
It's really not. As I said earlier:
"As others noted, the banana has been modified over time by humans, so the idea that humans changing stuff (the anti-processing argument) makes something bad would also apply to bananas.
(And I'd also agree with various posters that doesn't make it processed as we normally use the term, but it does make it relevant to the assertion that processed=bad.)"
Arguing about whether it technically counts as "processed" seems like a way to avoid addressing the broader point.
(Also, lots of foods are indisputably processed, like the trout and spinach I had for dinner tonight, at a restaurant, and yet not reasonably "to be avoided" for that reason -- I certainly am not into raw and even the raw folks eat lots of processed stuff.)1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I have a huge bag of salted cashews sitting in my cupboard that I'm too scared to open...
'Cause processed?
(Kidding, I expect it's because salted nuts are basically crack.* Or at least I also cannot stop eating them.)
*Not serious.
Oh lordy haha
Once they're open, I'll eat a few here and a handful there . They're just not worth the calories for me. Plus i NEVER struggle to get enough calories and fat.
They are a huge 1kg bag which i bought for our Christmas gathering, and we forgot open them! Now I'm stuck with them.
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I just had what i thought was a clever way to slowly get rid of them.. I was going to add 200g to my stir fry tonight, but that bumps up the dish by 1200 calories
I'm just gonna throw them away!
Absolutely petty and insignificant first world problems eh.. :blushing:0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »everyusernamewastakenso wrote: »I said personally... what works for me might work for others. And I don't look up the ingredients for natural foods i.e. fruits.
I'm with you. What you've seen is why I wouldn't get into trying to define "processed" or "overly processed" foods earlier - everyone knows what you mean but some come with off the wall nonsense to try and discredit what you say. It's up to each of us to read through all the condescension and sarcasm to find what works for each of us. In the end we all make our own decisions anyway.
It would be great if everyone did have a solid, logic driven thought process as to what foods they wanted to consume and which they felt were better to cut out in order to maximize their individual results. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. The plethora of misinformation available to people today, combined with the click bait headlines like " 5 Foods You Must Never Eat IF You Want To Lose Weight" means that people often are deluded into thinking that they HAVE to restrict something in order to be successful. Demonstrating that this is not the case, by digging into the vague and unhelpful designation of "processed" can often be an aha moment for so many people who were led to believe that in fact, anything in a package is bad, even if that package contains a precut salad blend, or a dozen eggs, or rice, or Greek yogurt. All of those things could be beneficial components to many diets and yet rules such as "no processed foods" or may lead some to feel they truly shouldn't consume them.
I'd love to live in a MFP world where when people say "everyone knows what we mean when we say processed" was actually true, and that people didn't get confused by that classification, but it just isn't happening yet. And until it does, I'm going to continue to use those extreme examples to point out just how meaningless a term is if not everyone has the same definition.
When has a banana ever been considered or referred to as a "processed" food? Never.
Possibly when humanity modified it so much that what you buy in the store doesn't exist in nature.
I don't think this makes it processed.
No, but I enjoy a banana cooked sometimes (really, it's good as a side or on ice cream), and that's processed.
So is most everything else I'm eating it with, since I cook most of my food, buy frozen fruits and veg sometimes, buy dairy, even buy bagged greens sometimes.
This idea that "processed"=bad or high cal or non nutritious or some such is unhelpful.
Anyway, Wino wasn't saying bananas were processed, she was using those "bananas make you fat" nonsense things as an example of bad information that dieters are blanketed with leading to the idea that they need a list of foods to cut out.
Personally, as I said upthread (I think, maybe in some other thread lately), I don't eat much that would be called "ultraprocessed" and if I do I read the package and decide if I like the ingredients/calories/macros or not, and think others should apply similar thought. But being "processed" saying NOTHING about how nutritious (or healthful) something is or whether it fits in someone's way of eating/goals/day.
I was actually only commenting on the genetic modification part. I am completely uninterested in this whole "define processed" thing. But I found that part interesting.
The modification of the banana is not the same thing as GMOs, though, and of course it has been modified over time by humans, so the idea that humans changing stuff (the anti-processing argument) makes something bad would also apply to bananas. (I'd also agree with various posters that doesn't make it processed as we normally use the term and that keeping GMO talk out of this thread is a good thing.)
I think you are confusing me with someone else. I do not feel today's bananas are processed because they've been bred by humans. That's all I said. In fact I was among the first to say I didn't think it made them processed.
I'm also not the one who started it. I never said gmo. I said genetic modification in reference to zysts post. Not sure why that warrants this.
I wasn't saying you said they were or weren't. That was just me agreeing with a particular statement.
Someone else mentioned GMO.
You seem to think I'm arguing with you when I wasn't -- I was responding (not the same thing as arguing) to what you said and also using the post to respond more broadly to the overall discussion.
My apologies, then.
It was probably unclear -- I have a habit of appending extra stuff on a response that could easily be confusing.lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »everyusernamewastakenso wrote: »I said personally... what works for me might work for others. And I don't look up the ingredients for natural foods i.e. fruits.
I'm with you. What you've seen is why I wouldn't get into trying to define "processed" or "overly processed" foods earlier - everyone knows what you mean but some come with off the wall nonsense to try and discredit what you say. It's up to each of us to read through all the condescension and sarcasm to find what works for each of us. In the end we all make our own decisions anyway.
It would be great if everyone did have a solid, logic driven thought process as to what foods they wanted to consume and which they felt were better to cut out in order to maximize their individual results. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. The plethora of misinformation available to people today, combined with the click bait headlines like " 5 Foods You Must Never Eat IF You Want To Lose Weight" means that people often are deluded into thinking that they HAVE to restrict something in order to be successful. Demonstrating that this is not the case, by digging into the vague and unhelpful designation of "processed" can often be an aha moment for so many people who were led to believe that in fact, anything in a package is bad, even if that package contains a precut salad blend, or a dozen eggs, or rice, or Greek yogurt. All of those things could be beneficial components to many diets and yet rules such as "no processed foods" or may lead some to feel they truly shouldn't consume them.
I'd love to live in a MFP world where when people say "everyone knows what we mean when we say processed" was actually true, and that people didn't get confused by that classification, but it just isn't happening yet. And until it does, I'm going to continue to use those extreme examples to point out just how meaningless a term is if not everyone has the same definition.
When has a banana ever been considered or referred to as a "processed" food? Never.
Possibly when humanity modified it so much that what you buy in the store doesn't exist in nature.
I don't think this makes it processed.
No, but I enjoy a banana cooked sometimes (really, it's good as a side or on ice cream), and that's processed.
So is most everything else I'm eating it with, since I cook most of my food, buy frozen fruits and veg sometimes, buy dairy, even buy bagged greens sometimes.
This idea that "processed"=bad or high cal or non nutritious or some such is unhelpful.
Anyway, Wino wasn't saying bananas were processed, she was using those "bananas make you fat" nonsense things as an example of bad information that dieters are blanketed with leading to the idea that they need a list of foods to cut out.
Personally, as I said upthread (I think, maybe in some other thread lately), I don't eat much that would be called "ultraprocessed" and if I do I read the package and decide if I like the ingredients/calories/macros or not, and think others should apply similar thought. But being "processed" saying NOTHING about how nutritious (or healthful) something is or whether it fits in someone's way of eating/goals/day.
I was actually only commenting on the genetic modification part. I am completely uninterested in this whole "define processed" thing. But I found that part interesting.
The modification of the banana is not the same thing as GMOs, though, and of course it has been modified over time by humans, so the idea that humans changing stuff (the anti-processing argument) makes something bad would also apply to bananas. (I'd also agree with various posters that doesn't make it processed as we normally use the term and that keeping GMO talk out of this thread is a good thing.)
I think you are confusing me with someone else. I do not feel today's bananas are processed because they've been bred by humans. That's all I said. In fact I was among the first to say I didn't think it made them processed.
I'm also not the one who started it. I never said gmo. I said genetic modification in reference to zysts post. Not sure why that warrants this.
I wasn't saying you said they were or weren't. That was just me agreeing with a particular statement.
Someone else mentioned GMO.
You seem to think I'm arguing with you when I wasn't -- I was responding (not the same thing as arguing) to what you said and also using the post to respond more broadly to the overall discussion.
My apologies, then.
It was probably unclear -- I have a habit of appending extra stuff on a response that could easily be confusing.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »
Sorry but that's like "comparing apples and oranges". (Pun intended)
It's really not. As I said earlier:
"As others noted, the banana has been modified over time by humans, so the idea that humans changing stuff (the anti-processing argument) makes something bad would also apply to bananas.
(And I'd also agree with various posters that doesn't make it processed as we normally use the term, but it does make it relevant to the assertion that processed=bad.)"
Arguing about whether it technically counts as "processed" seems like a way to avoid addressing the broader point.
(Also, lots of foods are indisputably processed, like the trout and spinach I had for dinner tonight, at a restaurant, and yet not reasonably "to be avoided" for that reason -- I certainly am not into raw and even the raw folks eat lots of processed stuff.)
But I never said processing is bad. I said raw food by definition has not yet been processed. I'm referring to "processing" as in cooking, drying, refining, preserving, etc.0 -
There are raw cookies, raw flavored kale chips, raw bars to name a few raw foods available at the health food store.
All made with raw foods but I would consider them processed.
ETA - dehydrated food is consider acceptable in the raw food community which would be processed as well.0 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »There are raw cookies, raw flavored kale chips, raw bars to name a few raw foods available at the health food store.
All made with raw foods but I would consider them processed.
ETA - dehydrated food is consider acceptable in the raw food community which would be processed as well.
I don't think technically that they are still in their raw form which IMO is fine.
I cook many of my veggies and all of my meats. I don't want to get parasites or harmful bacteria. I think it is awesome that we can all choose what and how to process or not process our food.0 -
What IS processing if not preparing and cooking food?
I don't get how "processed" food is supposed to be bad, but doing it yourself is so crunchy.
Bing "processed food." No, it isn't all bad. That's why I refer to "overly processed" instead. To me, these are products (not food) with added chemicals and preservatives that are so overly "processed" than any real nutritional value it may have had was destroyed on the process. At least when you buy fresh you control your own processing.
Trying to understand how preservatives "destroy nutritional value". Do they somehow alter the macro/micronutrient values in the food?
Oh for.... Maybe my sentence structure was misleading but. ..ok, How about this:
- added chemicals
- added preservatives
- overly processed destroying some/part of the nutritional value (too much heat for example)
I'm summarizing. Bing it.1 -
What IS processing if not preparing and cooking food?
I don't get how "processed" food is supposed to be bad, but doing it yourself is so crunchy.
Bing "processed food." No, it isn't all bad. That's why I refer to "overly processed" instead. To me, these are products (not food) with added chemicals and preservatives that are so overly "processed" than any real nutritional value it may have had was destroyed on the process. At least when you buy fresh you control your own processing.
You're on the right track, but IMHO it's a conspiracy theory to think that food companies are adding nasty chemicals and preservatives that are bad for us.
The whole of society is pretty much based on feeding ourselves and keeping ourselves alive.
Science, Medicine, Agriculture, Law & Justice, all of these systems are in place to protect us, not kill us off.
"Chemicals" and "preservatives" are just used as buzzwords by the likes of Whole Foods and Food Babe to sell their stuff.
In reality, they all come from the planet we live on. Salt, vinegar, oil - all these are chemicals and preservatives.
Lot s of things come from thr earth that can harm us too. But I know what you are saying. My main argument is that I think we are better off using the least processed foods and processing them ourselves. I will never stand in the way of a consumer purchasing Hamburger Helper, orange juice and Twinkies. Have at it and enjoy.0 -
this discussion is getting BANANAS !!!!
PS: have a happy new year. And at least just for today, only count best wishes for next year.1 -
"Yes. We have no bananas. We have no bananas today!"
ETA video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-hsJCt4Azu0
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This discussion is funny. In spite of everything I've learned and read about foods since deciding to get healthy, the only thing that has really changed is the quantity I eat any given day, not whether the food is processed or not, by any definition.
And why the heck am I suddenly craving Twinkies at 9 in the bloody morning!?2 -
This discussion is funny. In spite of everything I've learned and read about foods since deciding to get healthy, the only thing that has really changed is the quantity I eat any given day, not whether the food is processed or not, by any definition.
And why the heck am I suddenly craving Twinkies at 9 in the bloody morning!?
Twinkies and OJ? What about bananas? Lol 0 -
I'm going to have processed bananas for breakfast this morning. I couldn't get to Southeast Asia in time for the fresh ones.4
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nutmegoreo wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »
Yes, but you have to sneak up on them. Those wild sugar-free bananas are skittish and tend run and hide. If you spook one, they let off this high pitched squeal which will warn the others and you are destined to go without your banana that day.
Now where do we stand on banana "ice cream?"
Not run, but they do walk!
https://youtu.be/eZabqakBJEM 1 -
During the first phases of weight loss (I am in the 4th month and reduced 16 Kgs/ 35 pounds), there are difinitively things I recommend to forget:
- Sugar of any kind (even brown or honey): they add calories we don't need, I only use sweeteners 0 cals.
- Sodas of any kind and even boxed juices. They are like water with sugar (see previous). From time to time (max 2 per week) some 0 cals soda
- Any cakes or industrial bakery: glucose shots that will unbalance you on spot.
- Pizza
Besides above, I won't eliminate anything else.
yea, I ate all those things, lost 50 pounds, and got to sub 15% body fat....I must be a freak of nature...
Not at all! It's just that your way isn't THE ONLY WAY! Your way worked for you and it would work for many others. But it might not work for someone else. So you don't need to blast anyone else's opinions in order to validate your own.
i ate in a calorie deficit, that works for everyone.
There's more to dieting/building muscle/losing fat/getting lean than simple math. That's what you don't seem to get.
Way to move the goal posts as we were only talking about weight loss..so here is a little refresher...
Calorie deficit for straight weight loss; macro micro adherence + structured lifting program for body comp goals....1 -
During the first phases of weight loss (I am in the 4th month and reduced 16 Kgs/ 35 pounds), there are difinitively things I recommend to forget:
- Sugar of any kind (even brown or honey): they add calories we don't need, I only use sweeteners 0 cals.
- Sodas of any kind and even boxed juices. They are like water with sugar (see previous). From time to time (max 2 per week) some 0 cals soda
- Any cakes or industrial bakery: glucose shots that will unbalance you on spot.
- Pizza
Besides above, I won't eliminate anything else.
yea, I ate all those things, lost 50 pounds, and got to sub 15% body fat....I must be a freak of nature...
Not at all! It's just that your way isn't THE ONLY WAY! Your way worked for you and it would work for many others. But it might not work for someone else. So you don't need to blast anyone else's opinions in order to validate your own.
i ate in a calorie deficit, that works for everyone.
There's more to dieting/building muscle/losing fat/getting lean than simple math. That's what you don't seem to get.
Way to move the goal posts as we were only talking about weight loss..so here is a little refresher...
Calorie deficit for straight weight loss; macro micro adherence + structured lifting program for body comp goals....
Even getting lean and muscle building is still simple math. Lean mass in pounds * 0.8 = grams of protein for good muscle building/retention potential.0
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