Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
CICO is not the whole equation
Options
Replies
-
SymbolismNZ wrote: »Wellness vs Weight Loss; this forum has plenty of the latter, not much of the former.
You've also got stubborn types who don't really want to learn anything more than they believe to be true; so even as new research comes out regarding longevity, neurodegenerative diseases due to lacking nutrition and fuelling your body for the long haul, you get people exclaiming with glee that "Oooh I ate ice cream because I had enough calories to do it!"
If you're on a calorie deficit, you'll likely already be struggling to balance most of the micronutrients your body needs, but it's really not worth the debate here.
The most consistent risk factor for developing a neurodegenerative disorder is increasing age...10 -
SymbolismNZ wrote: »Wellness vs Weight Loss; this forum has plenty of the latter, not much of the former.
You've also got stubborn types who don't really want to learn anything more than they believe to be true; so even as new research comes out regarding longevity, neurodegenerative diseases due to lacking nutrition and fuelling your body for the long haul, you get people exclaiming with glee that "Oooh I ate ice cream because I had enough calories to do it!"
If you're on a calorie deficit, you'll likely already be struggling to balance most of the micronutrients your body needs, but it's really not worth the debate here.
"Wellness vs Weight loss" Why is this even a "versus" scenario in your eyes, though? Why do you assume you can only have one or the other, when it *is* entirely normal to experience both simultaneously?
For most overweight people, simply reducing their Weight (by employing CICO in whatever manner works best for them) improves their Wellness (health markers) dramatically *and* simultaneously.
I lost 75 lbs a year ago, reached my goal weight, improved my health dramatically and managed to balance my macros throughout, all the while occasionally including treats like ice cream as a small part of my well-balanced and nutrient-dense diet. And I dare say that my experience is representative of a large number of equally successful members who were able to lose the weight and improve their health without completely and unnecessarily banishing either entire food groups or individual food items that were helpful in maintaining compliance.14 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »SymbolismNZ wrote: »Wellness vs Weight Loss; this forum has plenty of the latter, not much of the former.
You've also got stubborn types who don't really want to learn anything more than they believe to be true; so even as new research comes out regarding longevity, neurodegenerative diseases due to lacking nutrition and fuelling your body for the long haul, you get people exclaiming with glee that "Oooh I ate ice cream because I had enough calories to do it!"
If you're on a calorie deficit, you'll likely already be struggling to balance most of the micronutrients your body needs, but it's really not worth the debate here.
"Wellness vs Weight loss" Why is this even a "versus" scenario in your eyes, though? Why do you assume you can only have one or the other, when it *is* entirely normal to experience both simultaneously?
For most overweight people, simply reducing their Weight (by employing CICO in whatever manner works best for them) improves their Wellness (health markers) dramatically *and* simultaneously.
I lost 75 lbs a year ago, reached my goal weight, improved my health dramatically and managed to balance my macros throughout, all the while occasionally including treats like ice cream as a small part of my well-balanced and nutrient-dense diet. And I dare say that my experience is representative of a large number of equally successful members who were able to lose the weight and improve their health without completely and unnecessarily banishing either entire food groups or individual food items that were helpful in maintaining compliance.
I think with more experience his views will change...8 -
Up until I hit my 40s I used to eat quite a bit of refined sugar and white flour products.
So not moderation, really?It took a number of years, but that way of eating did catch up with me. Then I started to get inflammatory symptoms, gained weight in midsection, and experienced water retention. Consequently after discovering the reasons for my distress, I have found much relief by cutting back on sugar and refined flour products.
What I would say (without getting into what inflammatory symptom means absent an actual autoimmune disease, as it seems to me to be the trendy self-diagnosis of the moment) is that of course people can eat poor diets and that will affect them. I don't think that's really in debate. The question is whether eating some sugar or some refined grains within the context of a healthy, calorie-appropriate diet is going to be a problem. I see no credible evidence (and that includes all the links people have provided) that say it is. So to claim, as some here seem heck-bent on doing, that anyone who eats some sugar and refined grains (say occasional pasta with shrimp and lots of vegetables) must not care about nutrition, but only weight loss, seems to be to be making a false claim. A claim that is also pretty rude, since "not agreeing with me about what is required for health" does not = "does not care about nutrition."
Now you go on to suggest that this is all about macros and that low carb is inherently healthier, which doesn't at all follow from what is said above, and I will once again note that there are numerous extremely healthful traditional diets that are quite high carb, and that includes the blue zones. When you suggest that "carbs" generally are bad for us, that deserves to be challenged -- doing so is not saying that you personally should not eat lower carb. (I think defining under 150 g as low carb as some here do is nuts, but under a lot of those definitions I normally eat low carb, around 100 g at the moment, so am certainly not opposed to it, and no one cares. What people would, rightfully, object to is a claim that everyone should eat that way or that it is inherently healthier than eating a higher carb diet.)
I would really like it if you could let me know if this is unclear in some way or if you disagree, because I don't get why we keep having these same circular conversations.8 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »So to claim, as some here seem heck-bent on doing, that anyone who eats some sugar and refined grains (say occasional pasta with shrimp and lots of vegetables) must not care about nutrition, but only weight loss, seems to be to be making a false claim. A claim that is also pretty rude, since "not agreeing with me about what is required for health" does not = "does not care about nutrition."
It's just not worth debating with some people. They believe what they believe until they believe something else. Besides, their rudeness says more about themselves then anyone else...
11 -
SymbolismNZ wrote: »Wellness vs Weight Loss; this forum has plenty of the latter, not much of the former.
You've also got stubborn types who don't really want to learn anything more than they believe to be true; so even as new research comes out regarding longevity, neurodegenerative diseases due to lacking nutrition and fuelling your body for the long haul, you get people exclaiming with glee that "Oooh I ate ice cream because I had enough calories to do it!"
If you're on a calorie deficit, you'll likely already be struggling to balance most of the micronutrients your body needs, but it's really not worth the debate here.
The most consistent risk factor for developing a neurodegenerative disorder is increasing age...
So in other words...
“On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero...”
–Fight Club11 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »SymbolismNZ wrote: »Wellness vs Weight Loss; this forum has plenty of the latter, not much of the former.
You've also got stubborn types who don't really want to learn anything more than they believe to be true; so even as new research comes out regarding longevity, neurodegenerative diseases due to lacking nutrition and fuelling your body for the long haul, you get people exclaiming with glee that "Oooh I ate ice cream because I had enough calories to do it!"
If you're on a calorie deficit, you'll likely already be struggling to balance most of the micronutrients your body needs, but it's really not worth the debate here.
"Wellness vs Weight loss" Why is this even a "versus" scenario in your eyes, though? Why do you assume you can only have one or the other, when it *is* entirely normal to experience both simultaneously?
For most overweight people, simply reducing their Weight (by employing CICO in whatever manner works best for them) improves their Wellness (health markers) dramatically *and* simultaneously.
I lost 75 lbs a year ago, reached my goal weight, improved my health dramatically and managed to balance my macros throughout, all the while occasionally including treats like ice cream as a small part of my well-balanced and nutrient-dense diet. And I dare say that my experience is representative of a large number of equally successful members who were able to lose the weight and improve their health without completely and unnecessarily banishing either entire food groups or individual food items that were helpful in maintaining compliance.
Having a similar health condition to yours, I'll add that we manage our health by managing our weight.
I've also improved a hereditary health marker, one that often calls for medication, simply through diet and exercise.
I see no versus scenario.
Additionally, we all expose ourselves to risks every day. I don't know about the other poster, but I drive, I've flown on planes, before becoming a vegetarian I ate red meat, I grilled meats.
I'm not going to live my life trying to mitigate every single risk factor. Therein lies madness.4 -
SymbolismNZ wrote: »The main ingredient in ice cream is sugar, by a pure calorie basis - and generally you've got sugar ontop of sugar in icecream due to flavourings too, but nice try.
I don't really have an obsession with nutrients to be honest; like I say, I'm aware of them but I hardly pay any attention to them and hit them (and have done even when I'm not eating "healthy" - i.e too much protein, or too much wine and whisky) because they're not actually that hard to hit if you're eating to fuel your system.
And again, going back to my "people debating points that aren't being made" - I'm not saying anything is wrong with you using food the same way some use alcohol or cigarettes or marijuana or other substances. I'm simply pointing out the parallels between your food consumption and other habits that have higher health risks associated with them.
Also "psychological issues" - nope, didn't claim that, this is where reading assists you; when I mention neurodegenerative diseases, there is nothing "psychological" about that, the difference between psychology ( how your consciousness rationalises what you think and feel) and psychiatry ( the chemical balances/imbalances within your brain and system that can impact your psychology) is huge. Neurodegenerative diseases aren't your psychology.
Wrong.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5405/23 -
OMG people - yes anyone who says "always" "will" "must be" almost always turns out to be wrong because there are always exceptions. The point is - that sugar is not good for you. Plain and simple. Will anything bad happen to you from eating ice cream or choc once in a while - no - of course not. But in general sugar is not good for you. I cant believe there is any debate about that simple fact. But if you choose to eat sugar - good for you. And if you dont gain any weight from it even better for you. So many people on here just love to parse each and every word. I have given up sugar and carbs to a large extent. I feel great and lost a lot of weight. Once in a while I will eat pizza when I want. But the point is - it works for me. If something else works for you -great -I am happy for you. I dont feel the need to call someone an idiot because they dont do what I do. I know its not for everyone.3
-
OMG people - yes anyone who says "always" "will" "must be" almost always turns out to be wrong because there are always exceptions. The point is - that sugar is not good for you. Plain and simple. Will anything bad happen to you from eating ice cream or choc once in a while - no - of course not. But in general sugar is not good for you. I cant believe there is any debate about that simple fact. But if you choose to eat sugar - good for you. And if you dont gain any weight from it even better for you. So many people on here just love to parse each and every word. I have given up sugar and carbs to a large extent. I feel great and lost a lot of weight. Once in a while I will eat pizza when I want. But the point is - it works for me. If something else works for you -great -I am happy for you. I dont feel the need to call someone an idiot because they dont do what I do. I know its not for everyone.
It's not bad for you either. Too much sugar is more then likely bad for you, as is too much water...8 -
OMG people - yes anyone who says "always" "will" "must be" almost always turns out to be wrong because there are always exceptions. The point is - that sugar is not good for you. Plain and simple. Will anything bad happen to you from eating ice cream or choc once in a while - no - of course not. But in general sugar is not good for you. I cant believe there is any debate about that simple fact. But if you choose to eat sugar - good for you. And if you dont gain any weight from it even better for you. So many people on here just love to parse each and every word. I have given up sugar and carbs to a large extent. I feel great and lost a lot of weight. Once in a while I will eat pizza when I want. But the point is - it works for me. If something else works for you -great -I am happy for you. I dont feel the need to call someone an idiot because they dont do what I do. I know its not for everyone.
It's not bad for you either. Too much sugar is more then likely bad for you, as is too much water...
^^THIS! Too many calories leads to weight gain. That can be from any, or all, foods. Most people with no health limitations can probably lose weight through moderation of all foods, and not consuming more calories than they are burning.
2 -
3rdof7sisters wrote: »OMG people - yes anyone who says "always" "will" "must be" almost always turns out to be wrong because there are always exceptions. The point is - that sugar is not good for you. Plain and simple. Will anything bad happen to you from eating ice cream or choc once in a while - no - of course not. But in general sugar is not good for you. I cant believe there is any debate about that simple fact. But if you choose to eat sugar - good for you. And if you dont gain any weight from it even better for you. So many people on here just love to parse each and every word. I have given up sugar and carbs to a large extent. I feel great and lost a lot of weight. Once in a while I will eat pizza when I want. But the point is - it works for me. If something else works for you -great -I am happy for you. I dont feel the need to call someone an idiot because they dont do what I do. I know its not for everyone.
It's not bad for you either. Too much sugar is more then likely bad for you, as is too much water...
Too many calories leads to weight gain. That can be from any, or all, foods. Most people with no health limitations can probably lose weight through moderation of all foods, and not consuming more calories than they are burning.
I do not disagree with any of this...2 -
OMG people - yes anyone who says "always" "will" "must be" almost always turns out to be wrong because there are always exceptions. The point is - that sugar is not good for you. Plain and simple. Will anything bad happen to you from eating ice cream or choc once in a while - no - of course not. But in general sugar is not good for you. I cant believe there is any debate about that simple fact. But if you choose to eat sugar - good for you. And if you dont gain any weight from it even better for you. So many people on here just love to parse each and every word. I have given up sugar and carbs to a large extent. I feel great and lost a lot of weight. Once in a while I will eat pizza when I want. But the point is - it works for me. If something else works for you -great -I am happy for you. I dont feel the need to call someone an idiot because they dont do what I do. I know its not for everyone.
Too much of anything is bad for you.
Context and dosage are always important.12 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »OMG people - yes anyone who says "always" "will" "must be" almost always turns out to be wrong because there are always exceptions. The point is - that sugar is not good for you. Plain and simple. Will anything bad happen to you from eating ice cream or choc once in a while - no - of course not. But in general sugar is not good for you. I cant believe there is any debate about that simple fact. But if you choose to eat sugar - good for you. And if you dont gain any weight from it even better for you. So many people on here just love to parse each and every word. I have given up sugar and carbs to a large extent. I feel great and lost a lot of weight. Once in a while I will eat pizza when I want. But the point is - it works for me. If something else works for you -great -I am happy for you. I dont feel the need to call someone an idiot because they dont do what I do. I know its not for everyone.
Too much of anything is bad for you.
Context and dosage are always important.
^^^ For the win...
2 -
OMG people - yes anyone who says "always" "will" "must be" almost always turns out to be wrong because there are always exceptions. The point is - that sugar is not good for you. Plain and simple. Will anything bad happen to you from eating ice cream or choc once in a while - no - of course not. But in general sugar is not good for you. I cant believe there is any debate about that simple fact. But if you choose to eat sugar - good for you. And if you dont gain any weight from it even better for you. So many people on here just love to parse each and every word. I have given up sugar and carbs to a large extent. I feel great and lost a lot of weight. Once in a while I will eat pizza when I want. But the point is - it works for me. If something else works for you -great -I am happy for you. I dont feel the need to call someone an idiot because they dont do what I do. I know its not for everyone.
Do you think it is the sugar itself or the quantity that many people consume? Do you think it is the "added" sugar that is not good for us or are you including the naturally occurring sugars found in food. Do you think that it would solve the "sugar is not good for you" if we stayed within the recommended guidelines for sugar consumption?
How did you make the decision to give up carbs...is it because they become sugar in the body or was there a health reason?
I think...at least IMO...that there needs to be a lot of questions answered before someone just says..."cut all sugars and carbs".
TBH...I don't eat a lot of added sugar. I found cutting back on "sweets" to be one of the easiest ways to keep my calories in line. As far as carbs go I try to keep them at 100g net. I have water retention problems and I have found cutting back to a moderate level a big help in controlling it. If I eat too many carbs in a day my ankles swell up over top of my socks...can be slightly painful.5 -
OMG people - yes anyone who says "always" "will" "must be" almost always turns out to be wrong because there are always exceptions. The point is - that sugar is not good for you. Plain and simple. Will anything bad happen to you from eating ice cream or choc once in a while - no - of course not. But in general sugar is not good for you. I cant believe there is any debate about that simple fact. But if you choose to eat sugar - good for you. And if you dont gain any weight from it even better for you. So many people on here just love to parse each and every word. I have given up sugar and carbs to a large extent. I feel great and lost a lot of weight. Once in a while I will eat pizza when I want. But the point is - it works for me. If something else works for you -great -I am happy for you. I dont feel the need to call someone an idiot because they dont do what I do. I know its not for everyone.
Completely ignores context and dosage.4 -
OMG people - yes anyone who says "always" "will" "must be" almost always turns out to be wrong because there are always exceptions. The point is - that sugar is not good for you. Plain and simple. Will anything bad happen to you from eating ice cream or choc once in a while - no - of course not. But in general sugar is not good for you. I cant believe there is any debate about that simple fact. But if you choose to eat sugar - good for you. And if you dont gain any weight from it even better for you. So many people on here just love to parse each and every word. I have given up sugar and carbs to a large extent. I feel great and lost a lot of weight. Once in a while I will eat pizza when I want. But the point is - it works for me. If something else works for you -great -I am happy for you. I dont feel the need to call someone an idiot because they dont do what I do. I know its not for everyone.
You, too, are wrong.4 -
The only issue with sugar is it is calorie dense. Beyond that, excluding medical issues, it's fine. Don't know why this is still an argument.8
-
So, after reading this whole thread.......you are telling me, if I eat ice cream I am definitely going to die and if I don't eat ice cream I am definitely going to die, but I might live 38 minutes longer? Pass that BlueBell.24
-
Tacklewasher wrote: »The only issue with sugar is it is calorie dense. Beyond that, excluding medical issues, it's fine. Don't know why this is still an argument.
I think it comes up a lot because a good half of all people do have health issues (T2D, T1D, prediabetes, insulin resistance, PCOS, NAFLD, Alzheimier's, CAD and a few cancers) that are made less healthy by sugar (large amounts of it - not a teaspoon or so a day). People who are made less healthy by sugar isn't a small minority. My guess is that it may be a majority now.
2
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 391 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 922 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions