March 2017 Running Challenge
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Bonked at mile three of last night's group run. Going to walk/jog 5.5 today-- just rest.1
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RespectTheKitty wrote: »Got a question:
This past weekend, a very dear friend of mine passed away due to complications from ALS. He was only 44, same age as I am. I would like to find a race that supports ALS awareness, research, etc. Does anyone know of any such race, preferably in or close to the Chicago area?
My first thought was google? use terms like, 5K or 10K ALS Chicago replace Chicago with Illinois or Indiana or Michigan or wherever far you want to drive for a race.
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This will be a slow & easy return to running. Have had too many injuries over the past 3 or 4 years, so going to be a little smarter!
1/3 - 4.1 km
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RespectTheKitty wrote: »Got a question:
This past weekend, a very dear friend of mine passed away due to complications from ALS. He was only 44, same age as I am. I would like to find a race that supports ALS awareness, research, etc. Does anyone know of any such race, preferably in or close to the Chicago area?
My first thought was google? use terms like, 5K or 10K ALS Chicago replace Chicago with Illinois or Indiana or Michigan or wherever far you want to drive for a race.
Yeah I tried that. It didn't really give me anything I could use. Maybe I didn't use the right terms.0 -
girlinahat wrote: »
ETA: She just texted me back and said "Awwww...<smoochie face emoji>" and then a second text that said "You could do a short run if you wanted to." Now the question is...does she mean it or is this a test??? Ladies...what do you think?
DO NOT DO A SHORT RUN. I repeat, DO NOT DO A SHORT RUN.
Tell her, 'no that's okay honey, I'd rather spend the time with you'
This is a very smart girl in a hat. :-)
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RespectTheKitty wrote: »Got a question:
This past weekend, a very dear friend of mine passed away due to complications from ALS. He was only 44, same age as I am. I would like to find a race that supports ALS awareness, research, etc. Does anyone know of any such race, preferably in or close to the Chicago area?
My first thought was google? use terms like, 5K or 10K ALS Chicago replace Chicago with Illinois or Indiana or Michigan or wherever far you want to drive for a race.
The ALS association primarily does Walk events vs races. http://web.alsa.org/site/PageServer?pagename=WLK_landing&P2P_landing_WALK&_ga=1.131230541.314342029.1488470359#.WLhBgTsrKUl You can search your area if you would like to participate in a walk. I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my mom to ALS.
ETA: Our area tried a race year before last and then cancelled the race part the next year due to poor registration. So ALS races aren't completely unheard of.0 -
2/1 6 (7x supersets: 4 min 8 mpm, 2 min 7:30, repeat)
2/1 4.5 with 6 x strength circuits
10.5/175
Rough getting going this morning, extra tired and hooooongry! Got it done though, and have definitely noticed improvements in strength (i.e. dead lifting more, OK with heavier free weights: 22.5 vs 15 lbs, etc). Going for my longer run tomorrow of around 10 as long as its nice out. Looking forward to something nice & EZ!1 -
@Stoshew71 @girlinahat alright, alright....LOL, I'll start just running slow miles..... I swear, teachers are the worst learners. It really only changes 1 run a week by cutting the speed and making them slow miles.... I'll save the fast running for different training for shorter races1
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Taking it easier this week with upcoming race on Saturday. (It's only 5 miles with accompanying drunken revelry and typically there will be plenty of folks handing out beer along the way and others doing pub stops, but I still want to do somewhat decent).
Yesterday was a group run, with the group I enjoy running with on Mondays and alternate Sundays along with some extra folks. Preview of Saturday's route. I inadvertently PR'd 5K. I did the shorter version (largely because the very high wind was going to be worse on the second loop closer to the river & lake). +3.5 mi, for current total of 3.5 mi for March.
Tonight: weight training day. I intend to go easy so my muscles are recovered for Saturday.
Friday: I'm planning to eliminate the run, and just go for a walk (or a walk with a few short running intervals). (followed by dancing)
Saturday: will be 5 mile race (so no long run this weekend)..maybe some light weight training later on.
Sunday: Group run (I plan to stay with the group distance and not add on to it to get a long run, since I'm also running Saturday).
In total, I should get another 10 miles in this weekend, for a weekly tally of 17-18 miles (4.2 of them in February).
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Bonked at mile three of last night's group run. Going to walk/jog 5.5 today-- just rest.
I hate to be technical here but with all the talk on marathon training and pacing and what not, this is a good time to bring up what "bonking" really means.
Fatigue can be used in a general way to describe you are feeling, but "bonking" or "hitting the wall" is very specific. The reason why this is important in the context of marathon training is because bonking is the term you use when your body runs out of glycogen (or comes close to it) and your brain basically says, that body part is not moving or not moving with the intensity that you want to move it with.
To move a body part, you need to contract a muscle. The energy required to contract a muscle is called ATP. When ATP is used, it turns into ADP and P. So all the other energy in your body is basically being used to replace ADP and P to remake ATP. And that happens in the cytoplasm of your muscle cell with anaerobic methods (very inefficient) and the mitochondria of your muscle with aerobic methods (very efficient). The energy used to remake ATP can either be carbs or fats (and in very rare cases under starvation amino acids).
Carbs are stored in your muscle and liver in the form of glycogen. You have a short supply of glycogen (not enough to power a marathon) and you cannot eat enough during a marathon to replace what you use. So if you rely on carbs too much, you will "bonk". But in order to actually bonk, you have to run for a long time and at a fairly high intensity. Like more than 3 hours at a pace way slower than threshold pace. Unless you fasted before you ran for many hours, then it could be less than 3 hours.
Bringing this back into marathon training. To prevent bonking, you want to teach your body to use fat for energy sooner in the run and for a longer period of time. To do this, you want to run your long run at a slow easy pace. You are more interested in distance and not speed. EASY EASY EASY. If you are breathing hard towards the end of the long run, then start even EASIER and SLOWER. You can fast before a long run to enforce this even more. I run first thing in the morning and eat nothing (just a mug of coffee). Limit what you consume on the run, maybe just water. This will be hard at first and it is hard for a reason. Your body is not used to running like this. Don't eat Gu or drink Gatorade or consume sports beans, ect. Not yet. Later you will. But not when you are teaching your body to use fat for energy on long runs. Learn the "train low race high method" and start it early. because later in your training cycle you will want some long runs where you refuel on the run and find out what works best for you.
Other reasons you may fatigue but not bonking...
Hitting your lactate threshold for too long and you have H+ issues will cause fatigue.
Your muscles experiencing DOMS related issues.
The potassium and sodium exchange through the cell membrane becomes unbalanced.
Heat issues or your blood becoming more saturated (dehydration related).
Bunch more issues.
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girlinahat wrote: »a short run this morning. Still not feeling the running love, which is awkward as I need to do 9 miles at the weekend, AND a friend wants to do a long hike, AND the weather looks bad.
All this talk of pacing is useful. I know I need to slow down, although it doesn't FEEL like I need to, but from what I've read, feel isn't always the best indicator. I need to suck it up and do a max HR test, but my HR seems to be around 175 on most runs which doesn't seem good to me!!
But I think time on feet is the most important thing, so I'm trying to aim more for time spent out moving than miles actually hit. So given that I'm struggling with the whole running thing and getting back into it, I'll do a run/walk at the weekend for a couple of hours. so say 9 minutes run, 1 minute walk, repeat 12 times.
and another thing - I did a T'ai Chi class last night - wow. now I hurt!! It looks so gentle!!!!
@girlinahat
The heart rate does seem high, but keep in mind everyone is different. Also, if you are running a lot of hills, that may impact your numbers. Although I have a low resting heart rate of 38, mine gets pretty high in races. The toughest race I did was a 15K night trail race with some pretty intense ups and downs. My average heart rate during that race was 184. In other races, my average HR is usually 178 to 180. In my marathon this past Sunday, my avg heart rate was only 169, which shows the leg muscles are key for the marathon distance. In normal long runs, my average heart rate seems to be in the mid 140s. However, the long runs I've been doing in my marathon training were mostly flat. I find it hard to go by heart rate when trail running because of all the ups and downs in the terrain. Therefore, I go more by feel when running on trails. I know I need to slow down a bit more on long runs. However, I just wanted to give you another example since I'm a female and close to your age.0 -
Bonked at mile three of last night's group run. Going to walk/jog 5.5 today-- just rest.
I hate to be technical here but with all the talk on marathon training and pacing and what not, this is a good time to bring up what "bonking" really means.
Fatigue can be used in a general way to describe you are feeling, but "bonking" or "hitting the wall" is very specific. The reason why this is important in the context of marathon training is because bonking is the term you use when your body runs out of glycogen (or comes close to it) and your brain basically says, that body part is not moving or not moving with the intensity that you want to move it with.
To move a body part, you need to contract a muscle. The energy required to contract a muscle is called ATP. When ATP is used, it turns into ADP and P. So all the other energy in your body is basically being used to replace ADP and P to remake ATP. And that happens in the cytoplasm of your muscle cell with anaerobic methods (very inefficient) and the mitochondria of your muscle with aerobic methods (very efficient). The energy used to remake ATP can either be carbs or fats (and in very rare cases under starvation amino acids).
Carbs are stored in your muscle and liver in the form of glycogen. You have a short supply of glycogen (not enough to power a marathon) and you cannot eat enough during a marathon to replace what you use. So if you rely on carbs too much, you will "bonk". But in order to actually bonk, you have to run for a long time and at a fairly high intensity. Like more than 3 hours at a pace way slower than threshold pace. Unless you fasted before you ran for many hours, then it could be less than 3 hours.
Bringing this back into marathon training. To prevent bonking, you want to teach your body to use fat for energy sooner in the run and for a longer period of time. To do this, you want to run your long run at a slow easy pace. You are more interested in distance and not speed. EASY EASY EASY. If you are breathing hard towards the end of the long run, then start even EASIER and SLOWER. You can fast before a long run to enforce this even more. I run first thing in the morning and eat nothing (just a mug of coffee). Limit what you consume on the run, maybe just water. This will be hard at first and it is hard for a reason. Your body is not used to running like this. Don't eat Gu or drink Gatorade or consume sports beans, ect. Not yet. Later you will. But not when you are teaching your body to use fat for energy on long runs. Learn the "train low race high method" and start it early. because later in your training cycle you will want some long runs where you refuel on the run and find out what works best for you.
Other reasons you may fatigue but not bonking...
Hitting your lactate threshold for too long and you have H+ issues will cause fatigue.
Your muscles experiencing DOMS related issues.
The potassium and sodium exchange through the cell membrane becomes unbalanced.
Heat issues or your blood becoming more saturated (dehydration related).
Bunch more issues.
Thanks for the info @Stoshew71 . I definitely plan to try this in my next marathon training cycle. I was pretty pleased with my pacing during my marathon. I kept it below a 9 minute mile until mile 22. From 22 to 26.2 I averaged in the low 9's except for my fall. However, I do want to keep it faster in the next one.
By the way, I think your carb loading tips truly helped!0 -
@Stoshew71 (can I call you God?) thank you SO much for what you wrote there. Really really helpful.
I have been reading around low carb/fat adaption, and don't really want to go into a low carb lifestyle, but I can certainly engineer my life to fast before training and then bring carbs in when they're needed. (I'm assuming this is what is meant by train low race high?)
So what you are suggesting works well is to train fasted or at least low on carbs, then in races introduce carbs for the boost? Do you have any good reading material you can point to on this (I'm a sucker for a technical book.)?
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Bonked at mile three of last night's group run. Going to walk/jog 5.5 today-- just rest.
I hate to be technical here but with all the talk on marathon training and pacing and what not, this is a good time to bring up what "bonking" really means.
...
Other reasons you may fatigue but not bonking...
Hitting your lactate threshold for too long and you have H+ issues will cause fatigue.
Your muscles experiencing DOMS related issues.
The potassium and sodium exchange through the cell membrane becomes unbalanced.
Heat issues or your blood becoming more saturated (dehydration related).
Bunch more issues.
So I wonder what happened the last time I went out for a 10 miles run but didn't quite get there. I felt like my body just gave up around mile 4. I had some fuel (sport beans) and was able to make it back home, but barely. Since I was not marathon training, and had only been running about 40 minutes at the time, I have to wonder what was going on with me. I *was* going too fast during that run, I know that, because it was my first time out on the Path with tons of people to dodge and I was speeding up a lot to pass walkers. So it was probably a case of just going too fast for what my body wanted to handle.1 -
BeeerRunner wrote: »Bonked at mile three of last night's group run. Going to walk/jog 5.5 today-- just rest.
I hate to be technical here but with all the talk on marathon training and pacing and what not, this is a good time to bring up what "bonking" really means.
Fatigue can be used in a general way to describe you are feeling, but "bonking" or "hitting the wall" is very specific. The reason why this is important in the context of marathon training is because bonking is the term you use when your body runs out of glycogen (or comes close to it) and your brain basically says, that body part is not moving or not moving with the intensity that you want to move it with.
To move a body part, you need to contract a muscle. The energy required to contract a muscle is called ATP. When ATP is used, it turns into ADP and P. So all the other energy in your body is basically being used to replace ADP and P to remake ATP. And that happens in the cytoplasm of your muscle cell with anaerobic methods (very inefficient) and the mitochondria of your muscle with aerobic methods (very efficient). The energy used to remake ATP can either be carbs or fats (and in very rare cases under starvation amino acids).
Carbs are stored in your muscle and liver in the form of glycogen. You have a short supply of glycogen (not enough to power a marathon) and you cannot eat enough during a marathon to replace what you use. So if you rely on carbs too much, you will "bonk". But in order to actually bonk, you have to run for a long time and at a fairly high intensity. Like more than 3 hours at a pace way slower than threshold pace. Unless you fasted before you ran for many hours, then it could be less than 3 hours.
Bringing this back into marathon training. To prevent bonking, you want to teach your body to use fat for energy sooner in the run and for a longer period of time. To do this, you want to run your long run at a slow easy pace. You are more interested in distance and not speed. EASY EASY EASY. If you are breathing hard towards the end of the long run, then start even EASIER and SLOWER. You can fast before a long run to enforce this even more. I run first thing in the morning and eat nothing (just a mug of coffee). Limit what you consume on the run, maybe just water. This will be hard at first and it is hard for a reason. Your body is not used to running like this. Don't eat Gu or drink Gatorade or consume sports beans, ect. Not yet. Later you will. But not when you are teaching your body to use fat for energy on long runs. Learn the "train low race high method" and start it early. because later in your training cycle you will want some long runs where you refuel on the run and find out what works best for you.
Other reasons you may fatigue but not bonking...
Hitting your lactate threshold for too long and you have H+ issues will cause fatigue.
Your muscles experiencing DOMS related issues.
The potassium and sodium exchange through the cell membrane becomes unbalanced.
Heat issues or your blood becoming more saturated (dehydration related).
Bunch more issues.
Thanks for the info @Stoshew71 . I definitely plan to try this in my next marathon training cycle. I was pretty pleased with my pacing during my marathon. I kept it below a 9 minute mile until mile 22. From 22 to 26.2 I averaged in the low 9's except for my fall. However, I do want to keep it faster in the next one.
By the way, I think your carb loading tips truly helped!
You're welcome and glad I could help.
In addition to the info I gave on the train low/race high for long runs. You may want to start incorporating tempo or threshold runs. If you are pleased with your weekly mileage and are able to hold that weekly mileage more many many weeks (in other words you are no longer worried about building mileage), you may want to try some tempo workouts.
The pace you are targeting is your 1 hour race pace (called your lactate threshold). In other words, what is the fastest pace could you sustain steady for about 1 hour. This coincides with your LT. You will want to see if you could sustain this pace in one of your training runs for 20 minutes. Do that once a week. Once that becomes easy, sustain it for at most 30 minutes. Then you could do that twice a week if that is the only hard workout you do other than your long run.
The geeky science behind it. When you run a pace that allows you to use aerobic methods (meaning with oxygen) to turn fuel (fats and carbs) into ATP, there should be minimal byproducts: just CO2 and H2O. Go a little faster, and your anaerobic system (without oxygen) has to work harder than your aerobic system. The byproducts of working your anaerobic system harder than your aerobic system includes lactate and hydrogen ions (H+). When H+ builds up, it intensifies the pH level in your blood and muscles (makes it very acidic). When that happens, it inflames your nerve endings and causes that burning feeling in your muscles when you run too fast for too long. Going at your LT pace allows your body to train to use lactate as a trigger to produce more efficient means to manage H+ and marks improvements into your cardiovascular. In other words, teaches your body endurance. You will improve what your LT pace is, which means that you will be able to run faster in that 1 hour without experiencing that burn. That also means that you will be able to run faster for your shorter distances and run faster for your longer distances. Which if I read your post correctly, that is your goal.
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Unplanned rest day yesterday, so March running started today. Felt a lot better when I was walking this morning so the rest obviously did me some good.
Did 1km on gym treadmill to get the heart pumping before my upper body strength circuits. After my workout I went out for my run. The plan called for 45mins steady, but I went a fair bit faster than that which I didn't mind as I had already decided to scrap my interval run this week. Was still very windy (about 17mph) but at 10C and sunny I didn't mind and got to wear shorts for my seafront run
I had a twinge in my right hamstring when I first set out (which was fine on the treadmill) but disappeared after a couple of minutes. I made sure to pay extra attention to that area when stretching afterwards anyway, and didn't notice anything other than what would be expected. Otherwise the run was pretty uneventful (in a good way).
2-Mar: 1k TM + 7.8k steady1 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »@Stoshew71 @girlinahat alright, alright....LOL, I'll start just running slow miles..... I swear, teachers are the worst learners. It really only changes 1 run a week by cutting the speed and making them slow miles.... I'll save the fast running for different training for shorter races
The other thing you're fighting is, most runners (including me) are stupider for themselves than they are for other runners.6 -
RespectTheKitty wrote: »Bonked at mile three of last night's group run. Going to walk/jog 5.5 today-- just rest.
I hate to be technical here but with all the talk on marathon training and pacing and what not, this is a good time to bring up what "bonking" really means.
...
Other reasons you may fatigue but not bonking...
Hitting your lactate threshold for too long and you have H+ issues will cause fatigue.
Your muscles experiencing DOMS related issues.
The potassium and sodium exchange through the cell membrane becomes unbalanced.
Heat issues or your blood becoming more saturated (dehydration related).
Bunch more issues.
So I wonder what happened the last time I went out for a 10 miles run but didn't quite get there. I felt like my body just gave up around mile 4. I had some fuel (sport beans) and was able to make it back home, but barely. Since I was not marathon training, and had only been running about 40 minutes at the time, I have to wonder what was going on with me. I *was* going too fast during that run, I know that, because it was my first time out on the Path with tons of people to dodge and I was speeding up a lot to pass walkers. So it was probably a case of just going too fast for what my body wanted to handle.
So if you are not used to running longer distance.... and to clarify what I mean by relying too much on carbs using geeky science. So in order to use fats for fuel, your brain needs to tell your body to release certain enzymes in your body to release the fat in your body in the form of fatty acids into your blood stream. If you're not used to this, your body doesn't produce enough of those enzymes. If you run out of those enzymes in your run, you may feel something similar to bonking, but it isn't quite bonking. Keeping at it will teach your body to produce more of those enzymes.
If you ran too fast in the beginning, you could have went faster than LT which for 40 minutes will cause the H+ issues I described. But in addition, when you run faster than your LT, you are forcing your body to use carbs. In order to use fat for fuel, not only do you need the enzymes to release fatty acids into your blood, you need enough oxygen (which means stronger heart, more hemoglobin in your blood to carry that oxygen, more capillaries in your muscles to deliver that blood to your muscles, and more mitochondria in your muscles to actually use fat and oxygen to remake ATP. You can make ATP without oxygen using carbs, but you cannot make ATP from fat unless that muscle cell has enough oxygen. Run too fast and you force your body to rely more on carbs.
So, what you may have been experiencing is that you scared your brain into thinking it is going to run out of carbs at the pace you were running, it wanted to make the switch to fats, but your cardio system (mitochondria/capillaries/hemoglobin) is underdeveloped. So instead of switching to fats for fuel for a trained runner, your brain decided to just shut everything down.
Again, this will all change in time when your body becomes more developed.2 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »@Stoshew71 @girlinahat alright, alright....LOL, I'll start just running slow miles..... I swear, teachers are the worst learners. It really only changes 1 run a week by cutting the speed and making them slow miles.... I'll save the fast running for different training for shorter races
The other thing you're fighting is, most runners (including me) are stupider for themselves than they are for other runners.
Yup. if I could only practice what I preach I may be an even better runner. LOL
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I'm back with a goal of 50 kms this month... Hope everyone has been great and doing well with their goals!
1/3: 30 mins strength training + 30 mins yoga
2/3: 34 mins C25K (Wk6 D2) 4.48kms + 30 mins yoga
Races:
7/4-18/4: Zombies Run! App 2017 Spring Virtual Run
15/7: The Colour Run 5K
23/9: “Coureurs des Bois” Obstacle Course Challenge3
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