"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.

dfwesq wrote: »

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4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »

Just to help with your question on quoting from other thread:

That in and of itself is not necessarily a violation. We do have a guideline saying not to attack and stalk other posters, so where people run into trouble is they argue with someone in one discussion, then start bringing it up to pick a fight with them in another. It can be a problem if you cant talk without someone hassling you, and can be a problem in the new thread because others dont know the context and whole story when they get thrown in halfway through the arguement, so adds alot of confusion.

But if you think of a good example that applies to this discussion feel free to paraphrase it. Talking about advice you have seen given here makes since as the whole thread is about giving good advice.

Because the examples I'd be quoting are bad examples, I wondered whether it would be fair. I wouldn't want someone quoting me on some other thread where I hadn't voluntarily posted and that I might not even know existed, especially if it was for the purpose of holding me up as a bad example. It also might be considered mocking the poster, which I know is mentioned in the community guidelines.

The examples I was thinking of aren't cases where I can confirm that people were telling the truth. I'm not looking at people's diaries and don't know if someone really was eating what they claimed to eat, but I don't think it really matters because the people reading those comments don't know either. When we hear "I ate ___ every day and still lost weight" all we know is what they told us. But to summarize a few, one person claimed, in some kind of Supersize Me way, to eat nothing but fast food and sodas and still lose weight. I read someone saying they eat several pastries each day and little in the way of fruit or vegetables and still lost weight. Someone else banked calories every week for a big splurge on booze and ice cream. Someone else said they ate Pop Tarts and supplements. It wasn't clear whether this was all they were eating, but I could be taken that way. It could also have been a joke, but no way to tell. Some of these people were called out, and some not. I didn't catalog all these, so I don't have links. Just going from my memory of reading them.

Ok now I'm really perplexed. Is this really all about you not believing what people are eating? I thought you said you were confused, people were giving incomplete and unhelpful advice, and new posters like yourself don't know what to do. Now this comes down to people say they eat certain foods and lose weight and you don't actually believe that's possible? That was the whole point of this entire thread. People say "eat whatever you want in a calorie deficit and you will lose weight" and THAT IS TRUE! OP seemed to believe this advice wasn't sufficient because it ignores satiety and nutrition.

Are there people who eat fast food every day and still lose weight? Yep! Are there people who eat pastries and not many fruits and vegetables and still lose weight? Yep! Are there people who live on nothing but supplements and whey protein shakes? Yep (most of them aren't trying to lose). Are there people who eat exclusively meat, (literally nothing else) and believe that this is healthy for them? Yep! Are there people who eat a diet of many processed foods, mixed with Whole Foods, drink wine and bank calories for splurges on the weekend? You're talking to one right now.

There are literally millions of combinations of foods that people eat, and have success with their weight management, because it all comes down to calories. There are also millions of combinations of foods which provide (as I strive for and state quite frequently) nutrition, satiety, and enjoyment.

If someone says they eat a certain way, and you check their open diary and it also is consistent, are you actually thinking people lie about what they eat on here? Seriously if you are going to that extreme of nitpicking this community, I'm really not sure this is a good fit for you.

And what the kitten does any of that have with whether the advice is garbage or not?

dfwesq wrote: »

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lemurcat12 wrote: »

@dfwesq -- I'm still not sure what's confusing, but as @WinoGelato noted above, am waiting for an example of a confusing thread, as that may help.

Sorry, the earlier post wasn't visible to me. I'm not sure I can even quote other people's posts here, as I mentioned a few posts up. 4legsRbetterthan2 said I could paraphrase, which I've tried to do.

I'm not able to respond as fully as I'd like, but I do appreciate your posts.

You aren't willing to spend the time answering our questions more in depth but you demand that we all spend our time answering every possible question from every possible angle whether real or imagined? I still don't understand how you expect anyone to manage that.

dfwesq wrote: »

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4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »

Just to help with your question on quoting from other thread:

That in and of itself is not necessarily a violation. We do have a guideline saying not to attack and stalk other posters, so where people run into trouble is they argue with someone in one discussion, then start bringing it up to pick a fight with them in another. It can be a problem if you cant talk without someone hassling you, and can be a problem in the new thread because others dont know the context and whole story when they get thrown in halfway through the arguement, so adds alot of confusion.

But if you think of a good example that applies to this discussion feel free to paraphrase it. Talking about advice you have seen given here makes since as the whole thread is about giving good advice.

Because the examples I'd be quoting are bad examples, I wondered whether it would be fair. I wouldn't want someone quoting me on some other thread where I hadn't voluntarily posted and that I might not even know existed, especially if it was for the purpose of holding me up as a bad example. It also might be considered mocking the poster, which I know is mentioned in the community guidelines.

The examples I was thinking of aren't cases where I can confirm that people were telling the truth. I'm not looking at people's diaries and don't know if someone really was eating what they claimed to eat, but I don't think it really matters because the people reading those comments don't know either. When we hear "I ate ___ every day and still lost weight" all we know is what they told us. But to summarize a few, one person claimed, in some kind of Supersize Me way, to eat nothing but fast food and sodas and still lose weight. I read someone saying they eat several pastries each day and little in the way of fruit or vegetables and still lost weight. Someone else banked calories every week for a big splurge on booze and ice cream. Someone else said they ate Pop Tarts and supplements. It wasn't clear whether this was all they were eating, but I could be taken that way. It could also have been a joke, but no way to tell. Some of these people were called out, and some not. I didn't catalog all these, so I don't have links. Just going from my memory of reading them.

But you CAN lose weight eating like that. I'll agree it may not be optimal, but it for sure is possible.

If a newbie posts "I've been so good this week but I caved and had ice cream today - did I ruin my week?!?" What's wrong with someone answering "Lol no of course not! Weight loss is just cico. I eat ice cream every day and I lost 50 lbs."

If a newbie posts "I hate veggies, can I still lose weight?" Considering you know a bunch of people will post suggestions on how to eat veggies, what's wrong with someone answering "I lost 30 lbs and I never eat vegetables, just make sure you take a multi." I mean you might not agree with it, but what's confusing about it?

I've been here 885 days and read the forums every day and post regularly. I'm not sure if I qualify as a veteran but I'm not a newbie here or at other forums. My policy has always been to post no more than twice in a thread and then walk away. It serves me pretty well. But I'm pretty irritated today and read 31 pages that I probably shouldn't have spent time on.

I don't care if someone eats just like me or follows a low carb, keto, paleo, or whatever radish only diet. I want people to succeed and be safe. Everyone here probably wants that or they wouldn't post advice.

I know from trying to lose weight for 15 years before using MFP and seeing friends, family members, weight loss message board members that eating in a way you can sustain is extremely important to long term weight loss and maintenance. Very often people who are extremely restrictive/extreme in their diet and exercise plan will burn out, fall off the wagon, yo yo diet, give up, and feel resentful.

My experience and observation is that many, many people do very well just eating closer to what they and the people around them typically eat. This can mean adapting to smaller portions of higher calorie foods, putting more vegetable on your plate, eating out less often, choosing thin crust pizza, eating a salad on the side, cooking with less oil, using a food scale, planning your day and making choices about what you want and what fits your goals best.

I eat food I like every day. I like a lot of different foods. I love to cook but eat out one meal a week.
My diary has been open since day 1. I have posted many times what I typically eat as have many other posters. I have saved my standard response to "what can I eat?" because I post it so much. I am happy to share what I eat so people know they can eat fairly normally.

I got fat eating too much for my activity level- 1 extra slice of pizza (not the whole thing), second helpings... just plain not being aware of the calories. I felt stupid when I started logging and losing weight. I figured out pretty quickly that eating more protein and vegetables would help me to feel satisfied but stay in my calorie goal. I don't want to be hungry so I eat foods that are filling to me.

I was never a binge eater or emotional eater. My advice for those people is generally to get help and work on developing different tools to deal with emotions instead of using food. I believe if you don't do that your pattern will repeat whenever some bad thing comes up.

The advice to eat whatever you want that fits your goals is decent. It is basic but is going to look different to different people so not knowing what you like you get a generic response. It is not garbage advice just because it is not detailed. If newbies are frustrated they should ask how they can do that and will definitely get a response with details.

Also new members- please read the sticky posts, use the search feature before asking questions, look at the other current threads in the forum. When you make a post include relevant details like height, weight, health conditions. So many questions have been answered before- some are asked multiple times every day. This is a good supportive community. We can be blunt sometimes but that doesn't mean people are not trying to help you figure things out. Don't call advice garbage just because you do not immediately understand.

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

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4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

pinuplove wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

AntoinetteAngus wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

BlueSkyShoal wrote: »

Thumbs up on the Snorlax picture, I love Pokemon.

I do think that a lot of the cheerful talk about how "you can eat ANYTHING and lose weight!" needs a footnote: "You can eat anything, but if it's high in calories you can only have a tiny bit."

Now personally, if I order a pizza I don't want to eat just one slice, hold the breadsticks. Sure, cold pizza is a great snack the next morning, but there's something especially delightful about a piping hot pizza with the cheese still gooey (and breadsticks on the side.)

What I do is I have days where I eat over my "normal" calories without worrying about it, and then I eat under the normal calories the next day. (This works best if the pig-out meal was dinner, since you usually still feel pretty full the next morning.) I don't consider that to be "a cheat day". It's not cheating, it's just moving the calories around so I can get what satisfies me--tons of pizza.

To the bolded... don't you think that sort of caution is unnecessary (and maybe presumes ignorance) on a site where people are logging and tracking calories? A person who is entering the foods they eat in their diary would know that 2 pieces of Dominos chicken, spinach and roasted red pepper pizza (my latest go to on pizza night) is 560 calories and 4 pieces of Parmesan bites are 150 which leaves me 190 calories to keep this meal under 800 which is what I aim for for splurge dinners. So another piece of pizza, or a salad, or some dessert or a glass of wine.

Caveating every post with information that posters should already know or be able to figure out themselves, seems redundant and insulting to me. I feel the same way about you the disclaimer, , even though I and many others do explicitly state, "but nutrition is also important"when someone asks if calories are all that matter for weight loss. My 5 year old knows that nutrition is important. Do I really have to add that to every post for grown adults so that my comments are not misinterpreted by people like the OP?

YES...you should add this to every post. Anyone new to this forum would believe... based on the abundance of ridiculous comments that you can just eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your calorie goals. This is irresponsible and I've actually taken the liberty to look at people's diary's who advocate this and alot of them are actually eating healthy! So why advocate to others that you can eat whatever you want instead of promoting a healthy, balanced lifestyle with moderated indulgences. The fact that you have an issue with someone throwing nutrition in the mix is absolutely ridiculous. A reminder about nutrition is definitely needed on a forum such as this one.

Why would you assume "Eat whatever you want" means "Eat nothing but junk food"?

Again, for all the threads criticizing this advice, I have NEVER seen someone post that they actually did take this advice to mean "Go ahead and eat all junk food" and now are struggling or failing because they're full of Twinkies and Big Macs by noon and have no calories left. Yet I see time and time again people respond by saying, "You mean I can have a treat every once and awhile and still lose weight? Thank goodness!".

And again again, for every post that just says, "You can eat whatever you want" there are two that follow that say "You can eat whatever you want to lose weight, but obviously you want to eat enough nutritious food for your health". And then someone will chime in to make sure you get enough fiber and protein. And then someone will post that if you eat Keto you'll never get hungry and your skin will glow. And then another will say that cutting out processed food was the only way they could lose weight.

I seriously wonder if there is an alternate MFP universe with all of these threads where newbies are given no info but to stuff their pieholes with poptarts to lose weight and I am just too dense to find it.

WHATEVER implies whatever. People are not providing enough context to that statement and are not being responsible. I have posted several times on various forums and have been met with angry comments...well I eat pizza everyday, or I eat Macdonald's everyday nobody can tell me otherwise! I completely advocate treats from time to time...we're human and what would life be without them...but people tend not to display their true story. I would like to re-highlight the fact that I mentioned previously in this thread that I have taken the liberty of looking at peoples diaries that advocate that you can eat WHATEVER you want and they actually eat a fairly decent diet so why not clarify that I eat healthy most of the time but I indulge as well instead of implying I eat WHATEVER I want. This is all that I am saying...

Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad' (if you want to think of it that way) so by saying they eat whatever they want, they aren't misrepresenting anything. Obviously these people have open diaries, and everyone is welcome to do as you did and see for themselves what these self-proclaimed 'eat whatever you want!' people are, in fact, actually eating. And maybe they're just tired of qualifying every.single.statement they make here. My diary is open, and I eat whatever I want. Some days are better than others, but I log them all.

'Maybe because eating 'whatever' they want includes a wide variety of foods, including both 'good' and 'bad'

If this is the case then people should SAY THAT. This is my point...The word WHATEVER does not provide people with adequate information. It is misleading.

Oh sweet kittens! This thread is making my head hurt There is a plethora, an absolute cornucopia, an OVERABUNDANCE, of information about what people here do, don't, sometimes, always, never, only on the full moon, eat. They're under no obligation to list it in every post.

They are obligated to speak truth and stop insinuating WHATEVER...it doesn't have to be a list...

The MFP guidelines are the only obligation posters have
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines

what is this truth you desire, my truth, your truth, his truth, her truth? This is no more clear than what the "whatever" people are saying

Oh sooooooo now we want to get so technical to the last detail that you want to indicate what the MFP guidelines are. Interesting..so why can people not be slightly more technical in their advice to people and say that yes I eat junk food, but if I examine the food I eat on a day to day...I generally eat good food to lose weight.

I am completely ok to correct myself and say that an 'obligation' was the wrong term that I used when saying that people are obligated to tell the truth. I SHOULD have said people should be more RESPONSIBLE in saying what they eat to lose weight. Saying that 'I eat WHATEVER I want' is actually misleading. If we want to get all technical...

What if it's true? What if I told you that I literally have some sort of fast food a day, plus other things like cookies and ice cream too? Along with things like sushi, baked chicken and steak?
I do ALL the cooking in my house. There are many times I don't feel like cooking so Panda Express, Taco Bell, etc are places I'll grab for dinner.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Tiff1124 wrote: »

I think the OP is saying in general more for if you want to lose weight, not if you're already at your goal or maintenance. For me I am trying to lose 40 lbs and I know I will not make my goal eating pizza, chips, or cookies. Oh how I wish I could but losing weight is more important than satisfying a 5 minute craving. ☺

Thing is you can. You can include those in moderation IF you are WILLING to limit the amount you consume and stay within calorie limits. I have clients do it ALL THE TIME. Part of the reason I'm a popular trainer in the gym. Members find out that I don't have them adhere to some specialized diet, but one that's actually doable for them.
Now that's NOT to say I don't encourage more nutritious eating for them overall because more volume of food can be eaten, but my approach that nothing has to be excluded has worked well for practically all my clients for years.


A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Tiff1124 wrote: »

I think the OP is saying in general more for if you want to lose weight, not if you're already at your goal or maintenance. For me I am trying to lose 40 lbs and I know I will not make my goal eating pizza, chips, or cookies. Oh how I wish I could but losing weight is more important than satisfying a 5 minute craving. ☺

But what a lot of us are saying is that we have successfully lost significant weight while fitting pizza, chips and cookies into our diet.

Tiff1124 wrote: »

I think the OP is saying in general more for if you want to lose weight, not if you're already at your goal or maintenance. For me I am trying to lose 40 lbs and I know I will not make my goal eating pizza, chips, or cookies. Oh how I wish I could but losing weight is more important than satisfying a 5 minute craving. ☺

You were probably smart not to read the whole thread, but there have actually been multiple experiences shared from people who did, in fact, eat those things while losing weight.

It was mentioned way up-thread, but eating *whatever* you want is not the same as eating as much as you want, whenever you want it. You have to make it fit. I had a bowl of spaghetti, popcorn shrimp, 4 Reese's minis, and a Ghiardelli brownie today (and honestly the brownie was not worth the calories). I also had a ginormous salad that made the other choices mathematically possible (and as nutrition goes, pretty balanced) on my roughly 1500 calorie allowance for the day.

Tiff1124 wrote: »

I'm just always hesitant to eat those things because I don't want to slow my progress. I have a long way to go and I feel if I do have pizza or unhealthy foods all of my hard work is for nada.

And if you started a thread saying "I ate cookies and pizza! Will all my hard work be for nada??" you would get a lot of responses saying "As long as you are under your calorie goal, you will lose weight". Because that is what experience has taught so many people on MFP. Which is what this thread is about.

Would it be better if people lied and said "OMG, yes! You can't eat that stuff or you'll never lose!" which is not only untrue, but demoralising, and depressing? Of course not! People want to see people succeed. Especially when they're crying out for help.

You don't have to eat those things. You can eat whatever way you choose. But the fact remains, working some into your diet will not hinder your progress as long as it is done in the context of your calorie goals and within the greater considerations of nutritional requirements.