July 2017 Running Challenge

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  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
    edited July 2017
    JessicaMcB wrote: »
    So effing hot today, 90 is some BS. Hoping it'll be less than "kill me now" degrees tomorrow when I do my first long run of double long run weekend #1 at Wilmore :/

    That heat made me understand where the phrase "Eff me running" came from. I always thought, "what an odd saying"... Until I caught myself uttering it, then it had deep meaning.


    Where's my running twin @WhatMeRunning ? I miss him.


    ETA I get to catch up with @BEERRUNNER tomorrow! I sure wish beer was involved :wink: selfies to come
  • mustb60
    mustb60 Posts: 1,090 Member
    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Question for those of you that do a lot of long runs (like 15 miles and more).

    How do you decide how much fuel you need? I know the rule of thumb of around 100 calories per hour, but how do you know when you are tired cause you have reached your physical limits verse you did not fuel properly? I am trying to teach someone training for a marathon and do not really know the answer. I just fuel every 45 mins (if the run is longer than 1/2 Marathon, bellow I do not worry) and assume I need it. Water is easy... but fuel? How do you figure that out for your specific body?

    Thanks!

    I don't usually worry about fueling for my long runs. The idea during my training is to exhaust your internal stores to create a stimulus that will make your body more efficient at using fat for fuel and to be able to increase glycogen stores.

    As far as racing, it goes by experience. You start with some text book advise of X amount of calories per 45 minutes. Then you learn whether that is too little or too much.

    Textbook advice is about 120-240 calories per hour.




    Now to get on my soapbox for a minute.....


    "but how do you know when you are tired cause you have reached your physical limits verse you did not fuel properly"

    This is why I research the crap out of what happens to your body during extreme exercise. What do all the different things in your body do and react? What causes fatigue? How many different things cause fatigue? There is no simple answer to your question and there is still a lot of things smart scientists are still researching. That is why I suggested reading the 80/20 book and many others and not just quickly go right to the plans at the end. Learn. And there are plenty of other books I read to learn concepts. Not just following a "plan".

    People talk about how to fuel properly and how to refuel. But your body cannot use all that fuel efficiently if you don't have the oxygen to burn it properly. All that fat that is around each of our bodies is enough to fuel 5 marathons or more. That's even if you have a low body fat percentage. The problem isn't fuel, the problem is the ability to burn that fuel efficiently. Run too fast, and you are forcing your body to use carbs instead of fat and you will be relying too much on anaerobic energy which is very inefficient.

    2 net ATP is produced by Glycolysis (using anerobic means only)
    ~32 net ATP is produced by Glycolysis/Krebs Cycle/ETC (the full aerobic effect)

    The effect of using Glycolysis alone is dumping too much lactate and H+ ions into your system which acidifies your blood and muscles, which is one form of fatigue.

    The effect of relying too much on glycolysis (run fast, slow down, run fast, slow down.....) is slowly exhausting your glycogen stores prematurely in very long distances, which causes a bonking effect. You will always burn faster than what you can refuel on the run. it's a simple math:

    160 lb person running 5 mph will burn 606 calories/ hour.
    The body can at best absorb about 1.5 g (or 6 calories) of glucose per minute (360 calories per hour).

    You cannot refuel fast enough. So you have to rely on fat storage. Train to your body to not rely on refueling but to burn in the most efficient manner that will yield the most ATP possible. Train your aerobic to be better. Train your metabolic system and respiratory system. If you're running very long distances, stop worrying about speed workouts and make your body an oxygen burning machine before you start thinking about raw speed and VO2 max workouts. Know your paces and what pace is your easy, tempo, and anaerobic zones. That's why I suggested reading the 80/20 book, not to go straight to the plans. learn and read about Arthur Lydiard, Dr Jack Daniels, Phillip Maffetone, Matt Fitzgerald, Scott Jurek, Sage Canaday, Tim Noakes, Greg McMillan, the Hanson brothers, and Jeff Gaudette. Not just their plans but the concepts they teach.



    Very interesting.
  • girlinahat
    girlinahat Posts: 2,956 Member
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    Tomorrow will be different, we're going out for 4 hours and planning on fueling during the run/hike... I'll be trying Tailwind for the first time, and my new Honeystinger waffles.

    Not heard of Tailwind? Glancing at their site seems to be a drink mix?

    Yeah. Basically electrolyte and fuel mix. Buddy is bringing it. It's his main fuel on ultra. Still in the learning/experiment phase for fueling and have a steep learning curve before October

    I REALLY like the sound of its advertising. If all I ever had to carry with me was hydration.... hmmm... that would be way easier. I am a very heavy sweater. 2 hour a run has me adjusting the drawstring on my shorts so that they do not fall off and tightening hydration belt and easily dropping 7-10 pounds. I could dilute the stuff out to 40oz which is what I drink per hour during the summer (only cause that is near the limit if what I can easily carry right now) which will help with the complaints I see it beeing too salty or too sweet for some.

    40 oz PER HOUR? That's a lot of fluid. Why drink so much? Are you drinking to thirst?

    Tim Noakes book 'Waterlogged' is REALLY a good read on the subject of hydration (and salt/sweat and the way osmosis works in the body)
  • stephenhall_hr
    stephenhall_hr Posts: 6 Member
    7.2k today. Finally got some intervals in!

    22k so far this month

    1/7
    2/7
    3/7 - 4.2
    4/7 - 4.3
    5/7
    6/7 - 6.3
    7/7
    8/7 - 7.2
  • cburke8909
    cburke8909 Posts: 990 Member

    exercise.png

  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    girlinahat wrote: »
    40 oz PER HOUR? That's a lot of fluid. Why drink so much? Are you drinking to thirst?

    Yes, 40oz. I loose A LOT of water. 20 min run in say 80% humidity at say 75 degrees I will be so soaked that most people think I was caught in a thunderstorm (yes I have had strangers asked me that on SUNNY days- they figure that is the only way I could be that wet). I literally (not figuratively) could not get any wetter even if I fell in a pool. This is why so-called "sweat proof" headphones keep breaking on me after only a couple few weeks. They are getting too wet. (My current set is rated for underwater use. Hope they last!)

    That is with wearing all the UA Heat Gear tech clothes that wick and etc. Drinking that much in the summer is still a net loss for me, and even drinking that much I sometimes have dehydration symptoms (but its hard to carry more water bottles LOL). I am not overhydrating. Everyone's bodies are different and have different levels of need. You may need 10oz per hour, and someone else may need 30. That is normal and okay. :) Each person needs to listen to their own bodies and adjust to match.

    In the winter I can run in much colder temps and not need anywhere near as much water.

  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    girlinahat wrote: »
    40 oz PER HOUR? That's a lot of fluid. Why drink so much? Are you drinking to thirst?

    Yes, 40oz. I loose A LOT of water. 20 min run in say 80% humidity at say 75 degrees I will be so soaked that most people think I was caught in a thunderstorm (yes I have had strangers asked me that on SUNNY days- they figure that is the only way I could be that wet). I literally (not figuratively) could not get any wetter even if I fell in a pool. This is why so-called "sweat proof" headphones keep breaking on me after only a couple few weeks. They are getting too wet. (My current set is rated for underwater use. Hope they last!)

    That is with wearing all the UA Heat Gear tech clothes that wick and etc. Drinking that much in the summer is still a net loss for me, and even drinking that much I sometimes have dehydration symptoms (but its hard to carry more water bottles LOL). I am not overhydrating. Everyone's bodies are different and have different levels of need. You may need 10oz per hour, and someone else may need 30. That is normal and okay. :) Each person needs to listen to their own bodies and adjust to match.

    In the winter I can run in much colder temps and not need anywhere near as much water.

    I'm not as bad as you, but I also tend to lose a lot of water. In the summer for long runs or if I won't have water sources along my route, I have a 3L hydration pack. Otherwise, I carry a 20 oz bottle every run all year.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    midwesterner85 wrote: »
    I'm not as bad as you, but I also tend to lose a lot of water. In the summer for long runs or if I won't have water sources along my route, I have a 3L hydration pack. Otherwise, I carry a 20 oz bottle every run all year.

    I would love to have 3L with me, but I could not stand the thought of a backpack while running. Right now I have 2 hydration belts, each hold 40oz, and I make sure I pass by my house mid-run to swap them out. I also pass through a park with water fountains. Best I have come up with so far. I really need a third belt heh.
  • vandinem
    vandinem Posts: 550 Member 
    Date      Miles      MTD
-------   -----    -------
July  1     4.0        4.0 
July  3     3.7        7.7 
July  7     3.7       11.4
July  8     5.1       16.5
  • bonnielee708
    bonnielee708 Posts: 65 Member
    7/1 - 10 K walk
    7/2 - Gym day, 10 minutes treadmill, 30 minutes strength training, 20 min swim
    7/3 - 4.8 K run/walk
    7/4 - 10K walk, yoga
    7/5 - 5k run/walk, 6k walk
    7/6 - Strength training & yoga, 10K walk
    7/7 - 6K run/walk, first time the ten-minute runs were painful but I made it through each time
    7/8 - Ice Skating and gym
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    edited July 2017
    July Running Totals (miles)
    7/1 – 14.00 paced run
    7/2 – 14.03 easy
    7/3 – 6.21 easy + 4 strides
    7/4 – 8.07 warm up + 4 mile race
    7/5 – 7.40 group run
    7/6 – 12.06 warm up + MP intervals
    7/7 – rest day
    7/8 – 15.01 paced 10 + ad hoc 5

    July total to date – 76.78

    Nominal Challenge Goal – 260 miles
    Real Goals: Stay healthy. Train toward Rochester Marathon. Pace Shoreline Half as close as possible to a 1:40 finish with even splits. Run Karknocker 5K in under 20 minutes.

    Today's notes – I heard thunderstoms in the night, and they came through again early this morning. Drove through the rain to get to the paced run, and then the rain stopped. We ended up running with overcast skies, no rain, 66º F (19º C) and 88% relative humidity.

    I was responsible for pacing to a target of 8:30 per mile, with the route structured as a short 7 mile loop plus a long 3 mile loop to total 10 miles. The group was a mixed lot. The guy who can't really run 8:30 was back, planning to hang with us however long he can and then wait for the 9:00 group to catch up. He hung with us for less than 3 miles. There was a long time running buddy of mine, who has always been good for settling into an 8:15 pace. And there was the guy I met a couple weeks ago, who is trying to develop a faster marathon pace.

    My long time buddy had issues he wouldn't have had a year ago. Couldn't keep up, needed a walk break after we dropped the slow guy but before 3 miles. He decided to wait for the 9:00 group. That left me and the other guy, who is running without a watch.

    It turns out I'm not a very good pacer when I'm only responsible for one other person. I tend to let the other person push the pace, then just run with him. Problem: In this case, the other person is relying on me to hold the pace, and if I let him he will edge too fast and wear himself out. I talked with the guy about this a bit, but he's pretty laid back; we didn't arrive at any firm conclusions on how I can help him manage his runs. And I confess, when he was running a 7:30 pace on a long downhill but my HR monitor said 108 (in Zone 1), I couldn't see telling him to slow down. I did slow him down on the subsequent uphill, and a few times after that; but once we got past mile 8 I figured he wasn't going to get in trouble since he was only running 10 miles anyway.

    The result of this organizational confusion is that the first 10 miles, with the target 8:30 pace, came in at 8:20, 8:09, 8:25, 8:11, 8:15, 7:58, 8:01, 8:08, 8:02, and 7:48. I wouldn't feel very bad about it if I'd managed to bring them all in between 8:10 and 8:25; but this is faster than I was supposed to be.

    I wanted 15 miles, so I swapped out for the second bottle of Nuun and asked a clump of guys if anyone else was interested in another 4 or 5 miles. Got one guy to go with me; he has been running with the 7:30 pace group. Didn't look at my watch much for a 5 mile out and back on the Riverway Trail, but I could feel that we were settling into a pace that was more natural for me. Looked afterward, and miles 11 through 15 came in at 7:49, 7:37, 7:49, 7:38, and 7:23. That might be a shade fast for my easy, but I was a shade slow on the first 10. And my heart rate didn't get above Zone 2 at any time; average 121, max 139. Good enough, and it was great to have some company on the last 5. Even if that company got me to run it a little faster than I might have solo.

    2017 races:
    January 1, 2017 Freezeroo #2 (Resolution Run 7.5 mile) (Mendon, NY) Finished in 50:45
    January 7, 2017 Winter Warrior Half Marathon (Gates, NY) Finished in 1:32:40
    January 14, 2017 Freezeroo #3 (Pineway Ponds Park 5 mile) (Spencerport, NY) Finished in 33:42
    January 28, 2017 Freezeroo #4 (Hearnish 5 mile) (Victor, NY) short course, finished 4.88 miles in 32:50
    February 4, 2017 USATF Cross Country National Championship Masters 8K (Bend, OR) Finished in 35:39, team won the 60+ Men's cross country championship
    February 11, 2017 Freezeroo #5 (Valentines Run "In Memory of Tom Brannon" 8 Mile) (Greece, NY) sat out due to training schedule
    February 25, 2017 Freezeroo #6 (White House Challenge 4.4 mile) (Webster, NY) short course, finished 4.34 miles in 27:51
    March 11, 2017 Johnny's Runnin' of the Green 5 mile (Rochester, NY) finished in 33:25
    March 18, 2017 USATF Masters 8K Championship (Shamrock 8K, Virginia Beach, VA) finished in 30:59, PR for 8K
    April 17, 2017 Boston Marathon (Hopkinton, MA) finished in 3:49:42
    April 30, 2017 USATF Masters 10K Championship (James Joyce Ramble, Dedham, MA) finished in 39:54, PR for 10K
    May 21, 2017 Lilac Run 10K (Rochester, NY) finished in 40:04
    May 27, 2017 Canandaigua Classic Half Marathon (Canandaigua, NY) finished in 1:33:06
    June 9, 2017 Charlie McMullen Mile (Fairport, NY) finished in 5:44.90, PR for mile
    June 18, 2017 Medved 5K to Cure ALS (Rochester, NY) finished in 19:32
    July 4, 2017 Firecracker Four Mile (Fairport, NY) finished in 25:42
    July 15, 2017 Shoreline Half Marathon [1:40 pacer] (Hamlin, NY)
    July 28, 2017 Karknocker 5K (East Rochester, NY)
    September 3, 2017 Oak Tree Half Marathon (Geneseo, NY)
    September 17, 2017 MVP Rochester Marathon (Rochester, NY)
    November 23, 2017 Race with Grace 10K (Hilton, NY)
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    edited July 2017
    Main goal is to survive the Eugene Curnow Trail marathon and get more time on feet.
    Nominal mileage goal: Let's say 100? Maybe I'll be a @PastorVincent and set my goal at the end of the month

    7/1- 11
    7/2- REST/Family day
    7/3- REST/Family Day
    7/4- 6ey stinger
    7/5- 5
    7/6- 6
    7/6- 5.1<--daily double
    7/7- REST
    7/8-17/7

    Total: 50.8

    Today's notes: Longest run since Grandma's, almost a month ago and longest trail run ever. Started at 0515, and primary goal was to run for 4 hours, and hopefully get in 16-20 miles (20 was a pipe dream, but I knew that from the beginning). In the end I ran for 4:18:18 and got in 17.7 miles (17.8 according to Garmin), with an average pace of 14:30 and a total ascent of 1780ft (542.5m). We ran a 5 mile course, and returned to the parking lot after every lap as an "aid station" simulation. After the first lap, we grabbed our water bottles, and on the following laps, it was a quick stop to drink some water and head back out.

    Running with my buddy we were aware of HR on all except the last 0.8 miles, where we just booked it. That said, with an average HR of 152, it was definitely in the E range on average, and Garmin says z1 and 2 were 60% of the time. Could I have done better in the HR department? Yup, but I still felt good.

    Food report: I had one of my Honey Stinger Waffles on the drive to where we were running, but that was it for them. When I grabbed my bottles after the first lap, I also loaded them up with 1 serving each of Tailwind. Now, I don't know if it was the slower pacing, or the Tailwind, but I felt GREAT for pretty much all of the run. The tailwind was pretty nice, so I'll be looking into getting some for myself.

    I noticed a mindset change on today's run. Average pace was "slow" at 14:30/mile, but I'm totally fine with that. That pace was an "all day" pace for me. I finished the miles and felt like, if push came to shove, I could do it all again... new feeling for me when it comes to 15+ mile runs....

    Now, random question. Last month someone shared a calorie calculator that took into account average grade for a run. I stupidly forgot to bookmark it. Whoever you are, could you share that again? Thanks


    2017 Races Scheduled
    6/16- William A Irvin 5k
    6/17- Grandma's Marathon 4:24:06
    7/15- Eugene Curnow Trail Marathon
    8/19- Rampage at the Ridge 5k OCR
    9/23- Ely Marathon (full)
    10/21 Wild Duluth 100k
    11/23- TBD 5k Turkey Trot
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    edited July 2017
    So question.

    Based on some magical mathematical work I have come up with the zones using 80/20 books system. I am trying to match that up to Strava's charts so that I can look back at my runs and see if I am doing that I had intended to do. 80/20 has the names...

    Z1 - Low
    Z2 - Moderate
    Z3 - Threshold
    Z4 - VO2 Max
    Z5 - Speed

    Strava has

    Z1 Endurance
    Z2 Moderate
    Z3 Tempo
    Z4 Threshold
    Z5 Anaerobic

    Are they the same thing? I have set up the numbers in Strava based on "zone" number - assuming that "endurance" = "low" for example. Just wondering if that is correct. I mean, in the end, I can just ignore the Strava names but would like to know. :)

    Like when I look at a random run that I think was pretty solid in the "comfortable" hardness level - I could have gone a longer if my lunch break at work was longer:

    1lkyrrivhdxi.png

    That seems to me to fit? Assuming I understood what I read in the 80/20 book....

    ETA: 10k Race:
    9i8r32xmuvoz.png

    Also seems to fit?

  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »

    Now, random question. Last month someone shared a calorie calculator that took into account average grace for a run. I stupidly forgot to bookmark it. Whoever you are, could you share that again? Thanks

    I dunno, but I will take all the "grace" I can get on my runs! :lol:

  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    edited July 2017
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »

    Now, random question. Last month someone shared a calorie calculator that took into account average grace for a run. I stupidly forgot to bookmark it. Whoever you are, could you share that again? Thanks

    I dunno, but I will take all the "grace" I can get on my runs! :lol:

    Hahaha... I really can't type on my phone....lol

    Oh, and for zones, look up how he sets up "buckets" on Garmin, because there are gaps between z2 and z3 and z3 and z4, it's not a perfect correlation. I think he has it on his website....
  • Oberon21
    Oberon21 Posts: 13,235 Member
    edited July 2017
    7/2 4.5
    7/4 5.0 total 9.5
    7/8 6.0 total 15.5



    exercise.png



  • BruinsGal_91
    BruinsGal_91 Posts: 1,400 Member
    BettyM1017 wrote: »
    @PastorVincent I'm right there with you. Most women "sparkle," but I seriously sweat. On the plus side, I drink at least 80 ounces of water every day, so I can go pretty far without needing a water break. My limit is 10 miles.

    Running...like swimming, only wetter!

    Sparkle? Not this woman. I definitely look as if I've been swimming by the time I finish a run.
  • AmyOutOfControl
    AmyOutOfControl Posts: 1,425 Member
    edited July 2017
    BruinsGal_91 wrote: »
    BettyM1017 wrote: »
    @PastorVincent I'm right there with you. Most women "sparkle," but I seriously sweat. On the plus side, I drink at least 80 ounces of water every day, so I can go pretty far without needing a water break. My limit is 10 miles.

    Running...like swimming, only wetter!

    Sparkle? Not this woman. I definitely look as if I've been swimming by the time I finish a run.

    Ditto. Although some studies say that endurance athletes sweat sooner & more profusely because their body becomes more efficient at cooling.

    http://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/why-runners-sweat-more
  • NikolaosKey
    NikolaosKey Posts: 410 Member
    Hellow fellow runners!

    7/3: 8.1k -easy run-
    7/4: 12.6k -intervals-
    7/6: 10.8k -2.5k w/u+8.3k progressive running-
    7/8: 8.5k -recovery after 2.2k swimming-

    40k/140k

    Stay hydrated!
  • KeepRunningFatboy
    KeepRunningFatboy Posts: 3,055 Member
    WK 7.3.17 - 7.9.17

    M - 4 m.
    T - 15.2 m.
    W - 10.7 m.
    T -
    F - 9.6 m.
    S - 12 m.
    S -
    Total - running Miles * Goal is a 60 mile running week.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    @PastorVincent - The zones you set up, and the results you display, look consistent with what I call Zones 1 through 5. Your numbers are a little higher than mine, but you're probably a little younger and there will be some variation between individuals anyway. I don't worry too much about the descriptive label that goes with the zone number.

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