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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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Tacklewasher wrote: »@SezxyStef
I don't get your point of view. If someone is on this site and using the MFP way of losing weight, then any activity over what the activity level they have set should be taking into account regardless of if it is exercise or extra cleaning (in the case of the post you are referring to, 3.5 hours of heavy cleaning at an animal shelter).
Yeah, this. If your level of activity = sedentary and you are actually doing activities that would be active 2 of 7 days, it would make sense to log them, whatever type of activities they are.
I personally preferred to handle daily activity things by having a Fitbit (initially) and then just setting a non sedentary activity level, but if you don't have a consistent activity level or a Fitbit I think it's fine to log back extra activity.
If it's like something one day a month, yes, there's no need to log it, it's a bonus and may compensate for an extra sedentary day somewhere, but if you want to eat a little extra after an exhausting day of yard work or running around setting up for and hosting a big event or whatever, no harm to that either, as it's not much different than someone who is usually sedentary getting dragged on a 12 mile charity walk (which I'd log in that case).1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »@SezxyStef
I don't get your point of view. If someone is on this site and using the MFP way of losing weight, then any activity over what the activity level they have set should be taking into account regardless of if it is exercise or extra cleaning (in the case of the post you are referring to, 3.5 hours of heavy cleaning at an animal shelter).
Yeah, this. If your level of activity = sedentary and you are actually doing activities that would be active 2 of 7 days, it would make sense to log them, whatever type of activities they are.
I personally preferred to handle daily activity things by having a Fitbit (initially) and then just setting a non sedentary activity level, but if you don't have a consistent activity level or a Fitbit I think it's fine to log back extra activity.
If it's like something one day a month, yes, there's no need to log it, it's a bonus and may compensate for an extra sedentary day somewhere, but if you want to eat a little extra after an exhausting day of yard work or running around setting up for and hosting a big event or whatever, no harm to that either, as it's not much different than someone who is usually sedentary getting dragged on a 12 mile charity walk (which I'd log in that case).
In fact, I think it is better to log it as best you can. Otherwise the tendency would be to have a treat, or a couple of beers and end up consuming more than the activity warranted. Log it, have an appropriate treat and still keep your deficit.7 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »@SezxyStef
I don't get your point of view. If someone is on this site and using the MFP way of losing weight, then any activity over what the activity level they have set should be taking into account regardless of if it is exercise or extra cleaning (in the case of the post you are referring to, 3.5 hours of heavy cleaning at an animal shelter).
If they are at a deficit already, then increasing that deficit by going substantially over their set activity level is going to put someone in too big a deficit. Doing that on a regular basis is detrimental to their health.
Doesn't matter if it's building a fence or 30 mins on a treadmill.
If it is a regular occurrence, then yes the activity level should be set accordingly.
My watch does this for me. I take the calories it gives me and eat them regardless of what they are for. It's how this (MFP) is supposed to work.
I think that if you are engaging in a lot of significant non-exercise activity that you want to capture, this is where a fitness tracker may be useful. I have a Garmin Fenix 3 HR with a continuous HRM that measures my calorie burn 24 hours a day. So if I'm mowing the lawn or helping a friend move I don't necessarily have to separately account for an "exercise event" to capture the additional calories burned, it is automatically recorded.
What makes accounting for the activity via an exercise tracker better than logging it in MFP?3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »@SezxyStef
I don't get your point of view. If someone is on this site and using the MFP way of losing weight, then any activity over what the activity level they have set should be taking into account regardless of if it is exercise or extra cleaning (in the case of the post you are referring to, 3.5 hours of heavy cleaning at an animal shelter).
If they are at a deficit already, then increasing that deficit by going substantially over their set activity level is going to put someone in too big a deficit. Doing that on a regular basis is detrimental to their health.
Doesn't matter if it's building a fence or 30 mins on a treadmill.
If it is a regular occurrence, then yes the activity level should be set accordingly.
My watch does this for me. I take the calories it gives me and eat them regardless of what they are for. It's how this (MFP) is supposed to work.
I think that if you are engaging in a lot of significant non-exercise activity that you want to capture, this is where a fitness tracker may be useful. I have a Garmin Fenix 3 HR with a continuous HRM that measures my calorie burn 24 hours a day. So if I'm mowing the lawn or helping a friend move I don't necessarily have to separately account for an "exercise event" to capture the additional calories burned, it is automatically recorded.
What makes accounting for the activity via an exercise tracker better than logging it in MFP?
In my case, it improves my accuracy. I know from a year with a tracker that it is reasonably close to reality and is over by ~10-15%, so I know how much of the calories given I can discount to get my desired weight loss (assuming I'm tracking intake well). I don't have the same faith in the MFP entries.
But it is 6 of one, half dozen of the other.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »@SezxyStef
I don't get your point of view. If someone is on this site and using the MFP way of losing weight, then any activity over what the activity level they have set should be taking into account regardless of if it is exercise or extra cleaning (in the case of the post you are referring to, 3.5 hours of heavy cleaning at an animal shelter).
If they are at a deficit already, then increasing that deficit by going substantially over their set activity level is going to put someone in too big a deficit. Doing that on a regular basis is detrimental to their health.
Doesn't matter if it's building a fence or 30 mins on a treadmill.
If it is a regular occurrence, then yes the activity level should be set accordingly.
My watch does this for me. I take the calories it gives me and eat them regardless of what they are for. It's how this (MFP) is supposed to work.
I think that if you are engaging in a lot of significant non-exercise activity that you want to capture, this is where a fitness tracker may be useful. I have a Garmin Fenix 3 HR with a continuous HRM that measures my calorie burn 24 hours a day. So if I'm mowing the lawn or helping a friend move I don't necessarily have to separately account for an "exercise event" to capture the additional calories burned, it is automatically recorded.
What makes accounting for the activity via an exercise tracker better than logging it in MFP?
With a fitness tracker that has an HRM, the calorie burn estimate is based on your HR and your personal information you have already programmed versus a generic table in MFP. For example, a half hour of spinning will provide different calorie burns for a 20-year-old female who is 5'8 and weighs 130lbs with an average HR of 100bpm vs a 50-year-old male who is 6'1 weighs 270lbs with an average HR of 130 bpm. MFP tables will not account for these differences.4 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »apparently another unpopular opinion I have is not logging things like "cleaning" or "gardening" but only purposeful exercise done with intent on improving health and fitness....
Not to cross threads but the thread wasn't about normal level of house hold chores.
Stated as you have above I would agree with you.
Agreed and I should have clarified more with "extra cleaning" but for me Gardening did that since it's not a constant everyday affair.
but regardless I don't think cleaning, throwing in wood or anything not done to improve health and fitness should be logged for extra calories...
As a general rule, I agree with you. Daily household chores do not get counted. The once-in-a-while deep cleaning gets accounted for in my steps anyway. The only thing I have logged was a few weeks ago when I set up my brand new perennial garden. 3 hours of spading, tilling, composting, planting and mulching took a lot of effort. You bet I was going to take credit for it (although I only claimed one hour of the three).
I have a neighbor who gave me a half face cord of chopped wood. If I was to chop my own, yes that would get logged. I have no problem if people log household work that is very infrequent, takes a lot of effort, and burns more than the usual calories. Otherwise, no.
hence my assumption my stance is unpopular.
I have this stance for a reason too...
When I was fat and getting fatter I did all this stuff too. Throw in wood, did the gardens, created new ones by hand...all that stuff...I stayed fat. It didn't help me lose weight.
Even after I lost the weight and was in maintenance last summer I thought lets see how it will impact my days shovelling mulch, weeding my flowers in the spring, doing the wood...by tracking it.
It added the calories I ate them sometimes, sometimes I didn't just like before...nothing changed...and that's my point.
Even those "extra chores" we do maybe 1x a year or 2x a year or even maybe a couple times a month (shovelling driveway of snow) does not impact weight loss...
I find the bolded part a bit perplexing whenever I see that claim of "I did it when I was fat so it shouldn't count." There are plenty of people who did some sort of regular exercise, whether it was walking, running, lifting, or some other fitness program, before they started losing weight. I even know some overweight people who start exercise program to feel better, not to lose weight. And most of us would agree that, regardless of the type of exercise, it's CI vs CO (and generally monitoring or controlling CI) that makes the difference in weight loss.
Why, then, is heavy-duty cleaning or yard work so frequently discounted as a type of exercise? Like most people in this particular discussion, I'm not meaning the day-to-day upkeep, but things like tilling or digging, hauling, moving furniture, etc. Granted, it is harder to accurately track calories burned and one must be more careful in eating those calories back (which is why I tend to deliberately "under-log" such activities, both by intensity and time, when I chose to log them), but that doesn't mean that they don't "count." My opinion is that, if I feel like I actually had a workout from doing the activity (comparing how I feel to what it's like after a good cardio/lifting session at the gym), I'm going to count it as a workout for the day. Especially if it leaves me feeling like I would be overworking things to then go to the gym.
That said, I do agree that it is a valid point to raise when someone says "Help! I can't lose!" My advise is generally to tighten up their food logging and make sure that they are not overestimating exercise calories. But if everything else is going well (weight loss, etc), then it shouldn't be an issue.
because we are not talking about purposeful exercise...something done to increase your health and fitness levels.
not sure why people are confusing the two things.
Exercise done for the sake of exercise and non exercise activity done because it is being done...and probably won't be done again for a while if ever.
and my post readily explains why I don't do it myself and why I don't recommend it.
but what it comes down to really is this...if you aren't in a deficit none of it will help you lose...the exercise nor the life activity (what I will call it from now on)8 -
Unpopular opinion: Let me watch my damn anime while I'm on the elliptical, and let there not be whispering about "the fat girl watching Sailor Moon", there's no way I'm gonna hit 5 miles in an hour without a distraction.13
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Tacklewasher wrote: »@SezxyStef
I don't get your point of view. If someone is on this site and using the MFP way of losing weight, then any activity over what the activity level they have set should be taking into account regardless of if it is exercise or extra cleaning (in the case of the post you are referring to, 3.5 hours of heavy cleaning at an animal shelter).
If they are at a deficit already, then increasing that deficit by going substantially over their set activity level is going to put someone in too big a deficit. Doing that on a regular basis is detrimental to their health.
Doesn't matter if it's building a fence or 30 mins on a treadmill.
If it is a regular occurrence, then yes the activity level should be set accordingly.
My watch does this for me. I take the calories it gives me and eat them regardless of what they are for. It's how this (MFP) is supposed to work.
If it's on a regular basis then it should be part of their activity level...so detrimental to health is moot.
The other times can and will be often made up for my poor logging.
MFP runs on NEAT...Non Exercise...Exercise is defined as purposeful movement for the benefit of fitness and/or health....building a fence is not that.
As for my point read my post about me tracking those things last summer...shovelling mulch, creating flower beds, throwing in wood etc all while in maintenance and not always eating my calories back...I should have been losing weight...but I didn't...that's where it comes from.Bry_Lander wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »@SezxyStef
I don't get your point of view. If someone is on this site and using the MFP way of losing weight, then any activity over what the activity level they have set should be taking into account regardless of if it is exercise or extra cleaning (in the case of the post you are referring to, 3.5 hours of heavy cleaning at an animal shelter).
If they are at a deficit already, then increasing that deficit by going substantially over their set activity level is going to put someone in too big a deficit. Doing that on a regular basis is detrimental to their health.
Doesn't matter if it's building a fence or 30 mins on a treadmill.
If it is a regular occurrence, then yes the activity level should be set accordingly.
My watch does this for me. I take the calories it gives me and eat them regardless of what they are for. It's how this (MFP) is supposed to work.
I think that if you are engaging in a lot of significant non-exercise activity that you want to capture, this is where a fitness tracker may be useful. I have a Garmin Fenix 3 HR with a continuous HRM that measures my calorie burn 24 hours a day. So if I'm mowing the lawn or helping a friend move I don't necessarily have to separately account for an "exercise event" to capture the additional calories burned, it is automatically recorded.
This. Or in your base activity level. If it's a day here and there you aren't going to be in too big a deficit overall.
exactly my point.5 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »apparently another unpopular opinion I have is not logging things like "cleaning" or "gardening" but only purposeful exercise done with intent on improving health and fitness....
Not to cross threads but the thread wasn't about normal level of house hold chores.
Stated as you have above I would agree with you.
Agreed and I should have clarified more with "extra cleaning" but for me Gardening did that since it's not a constant everyday affair.
but regardless I don't think cleaning, throwing in wood or anything not done to improve health and fitness should be logged for extra calories...
As a general rule, I agree with you. Daily household chores do not get counted. The once-in-a-while deep cleaning gets accounted for in my steps anyway. The only thing I have logged was a few weeks ago when I set up my brand new perennial garden. 3 hours of spading, tilling, composting, planting and mulching took a lot of effort. You bet I was going to take credit for it (although I only claimed one hour of the three).
I have a neighbor who gave me a half face cord of chopped wood. If I was to chop my own, yes that would get logged. I have no problem if people log household work that is very infrequent, takes a lot of effort, and burns more than the usual calories. Otherwise, no.
hence my assumption my stance is unpopular.
I have this stance for a reason too...
When I was fat and getting fatter I did all this stuff too. Throw in wood, did the gardens, created new ones by hand...all that stuff...I stayed fat. It didn't help me lose weight.
Even after I lost the weight and was in maintenance last summer I thought lets see how it will impact my days shovelling mulch, weeding my flowers in the spring, doing the wood...by tracking it.
It added the calories I ate them sometimes, sometimes I didn't just like before...nothing changed...and that's my point.
Even those "extra chores" we do maybe 1x a year or 2x a year or even maybe a couple times a month (shovelling driveway of snow) does not impact weight loss...
I find the bolded part a bit perplexing whenever I see that claim of "I did it when I was fat so it shouldn't count." There are plenty of people who did some sort of regular exercise, whether it was walking, running, lifting, or some other fitness program, before they started losing weight. I even know some overweight people who start exercise program to feel better, not to lose weight. And most of us would agree that, regardless of the type of exercise, it's CI vs CO (and generally monitoring or controlling CI) that makes the difference in weight loss.
Why, then, is heavy-duty cleaning or yard work so frequently discounted as a type of exercise? Like most people in this particular discussion, I'm not meaning the day-to-day upkeep, but things like tilling or digging, hauling, moving furniture, etc. Granted, it is harder to accurately track calories burned and one must be more careful in eating those calories back (which is why I tend to deliberately "under-log" such activities, both by intensity and time, when I chose to log them), but that doesn't mean that they don't "count." My opinion is that, if I feel like I actually had a workout from doing the activity (comparing how I feel to what it's like after a good cardio/lifting session at the gym), I'm going to count it as a workout for the day. Especially if it leaves me feeling like I would be overworking things to then go to the gym.
That said, I do agree that it is a valid point to raise when someone says "Help! I can't lose!" My advise is generally to tighten up their food logging and make sure that they are not overestimating exercise calories. But if everything else is going well (weight loss, etc), then it shouldn't be an issue.
because we are not talking about purposeful exercise...something done to increase your health and fitness levels.
not sure why people are confusing the two things.
Exercise done for the sake of exercise and non exercise activity done because it is being done...and probably won't be done again for a while if ever.
and my post readily explains why I don't do it myself and why I don't recommend it.
but what it comes down to really is this...if you aren't in a deficit none of it will help you lose...the exercise nor the life activity (what I will call it from now on)
But from a calories burnt perspective, who cares? I walked 15K steps Saturday golfing. Have not golfed in months. Why would that be different from going on a 10K walk for exercise?
I don't get the distinction.14 -
Also an unpopular opinion: No, I don't have to be completely red in the face or dripping with sweat as a testament to "how hard" I worked out. I only turn red if I'm having an asthma attack, and if I let a bead of sweat so much as get an inch from my eyelids, that's it, the skin is burned with eczema for the rest of the week. MY HEART RATE IS AT 170, IS THAT NOT ENOUGH8
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Tacklewasher wrote: »@SezxyStef
I don't get your point of view. If someone is on this site and using the MFP way of losing weight, then any activity over what the activity level they have set should be taking into account regardless of if it is exercise or extra cleaning (in the case of the post you are referring to, 3.5 hours of heavy cleaning at an animal shelter).
If they are at a deficit already, then increasing that deficit by going substantially over their set activity level is going to put someone in too big a deficit. Doing that on a regular basis is detrimental to their health.
Doesn't matter if it's building a fence or 30 mins on a treadmill.
If it is a regular occurrence, then yes the activity level should be set accordingly.
My watch does this for me. I take the calories it gives me and eat them regardless of what they are for. It's how this (MFP) is supposed to work.
If it's on a regular basis then it should be part of their activity level...so detrimental to health is moot.
The other times can and will be often made up for my poor logging.
MFP runs on NEAT...Non Exercise...Exercise is defined as purposeful movement for the benefit of fitness and/or health....building a fence is not that.
As for my point read my post about me tracking those things last summer...shovelling mulch, creating flower beds, throwing in wood etc all while in maintenance and not always eating my calories back...I should have been losing weight...but I didn't...that's where it comes from.
If you weren't losing weight, then you weren't eating at a deficit? So your tracking was off. But you know that.
If my activity is set at sedentary and I do more than that, than the MFP value for NEAT is off and I should account for that.
Are you saying don't add it because you log poorly?7 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »@SezxyStef
I don't get your point of view. If someone is on this site and using the MFP way of losing weight, then any activity over what the activity level they have set should be taking into account regardless of if it is exercise or extra cleaning (in the case of the post you are referring to, 3.5 hours of heavy cleaning at an animal shelter).
Yeah, this. If your level of activity = sedentary and you are actually doing activities that would be active 2 of 7 days, it would make sense to log them, whatever type of activities they are.
I personally preferred to handle daily activity things by having a Fitbit (initially) and then just setting a non sedentary activity level, but if you don't have a consistent activity level or a Fitbit I think it's fine to log back extra activity.
If it's like something one day a month, yes, there's no need to log it, it's a bonus and may compensate for an extra sedentary day somewhere, but if you want to eat a little extra after an exhausting day of yard work or running around setting up for and hosting a big event or whatever, no harm to that either, as it's not much different than someone who is usually sedentary getting dragged on a 12 mile charity walk (which I'd log in that case).
I think if you are doing something 2/7 days every week that is a different story too esp if it does account for a significant burn but again...if it is frequent enough to make a difference then it should be in your activity level....
and then so much this last paragraph. I feel very free to eat a bit more on the days we do wood...but I don't log the wood as "exercise"1 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »apparently another unpopular opinion I have is not logging things like "cleaning" or "gardening" but only purposeful exercise done with intent on improving health and fitness....
Not to cross threads but the thread wasn't about normal level of house hold chores.
Stated as you have above I would agree with you.
Agreed and I should have clarified more with "extra cleaning" but for me Gardening did that since it's not a constant everyday affair.
but regardless I don't think cleaning, throwing in wood or anything not done to improve health and fitness should be logged for extra calories...
As a general rule, I agree with you. Daily household chores do not get counted. The once-in-a-while deep cleaning gets accounted for in my steps anyway. The only thing I have logged was a few weeks ago when I set up my brand new perennial garden. 3 hours of spading, tilling, composting, planting and mulching took a lot of effort. You bet I was going to take credit for it (although I only claimed one hour of the three).
I have a neighbor who gave me a half face cord of chopped wood. If I was to chop my own, yes that would get logged. I have no problem if people log household work that is very infrequent, takes a lot of effort, and burns more than the usual calories. Otherwise, no.
hence my assumption my stance is unpopular.
I have this stance for a reason too...
When I was fat and getting fatter I did all this stuff too. Throw in wood, did the gardens, created new ones by hand...all that stuff...I stayed fat. It didn't help me lose weight.
Even after I lost the weight and was in maintenance last summer I thought lets see how it will impact my days shovelling mulch, weeding my flowers in the spring, doing the wood...by tracking it.
It added the calories I ate them sometimes, sometimes I didn't just like before...nothing changed...and that's my point.
Even those "extra chores" we do maybe 1x a year or 2x a year or even maybe a couple times a month (shovelling driveway of snow) does not impact weight loss...
I find the bolded part a bit perplexing whenever I see that claim of "I did it when I was fat so it shouldn't count." There are plenty of people who did some sort of regular exercise, whether it was walking, running, lifting, or some other fitness program, before they started losing weight. I even know some overweight people who start exercise program to feel better, not to lose weight. And most of us would agree that, regardless of the type of exercise, it's CI vs CO (and generally monitoring or controlling CI) that makes the difference in weight loss.
Why, then, is heavy-duty cleaning or yard work so frequently discounted as a type of exercise? Like most people in this particular discussion, I'm not meaning the day-to-day upkeep, but things like tilling or digging, hauling, moving furniture, etc. Granted, it is harder to accurately track calories burned and one must be more careful in eating those calories back (which is why I tend to deliberately "under-log" such activities, both by intensity and time, when I chose to log them), but that doesn't mean that they don't "count." My opinion is that, if I feel like I actually had a workout from doing the activity (comparing how I feel to what it's like after a good cardio/lifting session at the gym), I'm going to count it as a workout for the day. Especially if it leaves me feeling like I would be overworking things to then go to the gym.
That said, I do agree that it is a valid point to raise when someone says "Help! I can't lose!" My advise is generally to tighten up their food logging and make sure that they are not overestimating exercise calories. But if everything else is going well (weight loss, etc), then it shouldn't be an issue.
because we are not talking about purposeful exercise...something done to increase your health and fitness levels.
not sure why people are confusing the two things.
Exercise done for the sake of exercise and non exercise activity done because it is being done...and probably won't be done again for a while if ever.
and my post readily explains why I don't do it myself and why I don't recommend it.
but what it comes down to really is this...if you aren't in a deficit none of it will help you lose...the exercise nor the life activity (what I will call it from now on)
But from a calories burnt perspective, who cares? I walked 15K steps Saturday golfing. Have not golfed in months. Why would that be different from going on a 10K walk for exercise?
I don't get the distinction.
because your walk was steady state cardio vs Golf (aka standing around waiting for next hole, swinging club, standing around, carry a bag, stand around more etc.)
I expect the only time anyone's heart rate goes up in golf is when they want to throw their club due to a piss poor shot...
I am not saying that there are not exceptions but I still say these random activities that are done like "heavy cleaning" or "tilling a garden" or "throwing in wood" should not be logged as exercise to gain extra food to eat.
In the long run it will not help you lose weight and in fact could hinder it if you get to deep down that hole where you start logging taking the dog out to poo as a walk...esp since people tend to overestimate activity and effort is often exaggerate (I worked really hard, drenched in sweat to prove it)
But as I have said on more than one post about this...it's an individual choice and it's apparently unpopular...who knew.
ETA: I am not trying to discourage physical activity such as tilling etc. as it has it's benefits I suspect mine helps keep me in balance as my logging isn't that great while in maintenance.4 -
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Tacklewasher wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »apparently another unpopular opinion I have is not logging things like "cleaning" or "gardening" but only purposeful exercise done with intent on improving health and fitness....
Not to cross threads but the thread wasn't about normal level of house hold chores.
Stated as you have above I would agree with you.
Agreed and I should have clarified more with "extra cleaning" but for me Gardening did that since it's not a constant everyday affair.
but regardless I don't think cleaning, throwing in wood or anything not done to improve health and fitness should be logged for extra calories...
As a general rule, I agree with you. Daily household chores do not get counted. The once-in-a-while deep cleaning gets accounted for in my steps anyway. The only thing I have logged was a few weeks ago when I set up my brand new perennial garden. 3 hours of spading, tilling, composting, planting and mulching took a lot of effort. You bet I was going to take credit for it (although I only claimed one hour of the three).
I have a neighbor who gave me a half face cord of chopped wood. If I was to chop my own, yes that would get logged. I have no problem if people log household work that is very infrequent, takes a lot of effort, and burns more than the usual calories. Otherwise, no.
hence my assumption my stance is unpopular.
I have this stance for a reason too...
When I was fat and getting fatter I did all this stuff too. Throw in wood, did the gardens, created new ones by hand...all that stuff...I stayed fat. It didn't help me lose weight.
Even after I lost the weight and was in maintenance last summer I thought lets see how it will impact my days shovelling mulch, weeding my flowers in the spring, doing the wood...by tracking it.
It added the calories I ate them sometimes, sometimes I didn't just like before...nothing changed...and that's my point.
Even those "extra chores" we do maybe 1x a year or 2x a year or even maybe a couple times a month (shovelling driveway of snow) does not impact weight loss...
I find the bolded part a bit perplexing whenever I see that claim of "I did it when I was fat so it shouldn't count." There are plenty of people who did some sort of regular exercise, whether it was walking, running, lifting, or some other fitness program, before they started losing weight. I even know some overweight people who start exercise program to feel better, not to lose weight. And most of us would agree that, regardless of the type of exercise, it's CI vs CO (and generally monitoring or controlling CI) that makes the difference in weight loss.
Why, then, is heavy-duty cleaning or yard work so frequently discounted as a type of exercise? Like most people in this particular discussion, I'm not meaning the day-to-day upkeep, but things like tilling or digging, hauling, moving furniture, etc. Granted, it is harder to accurately track calories burned and one must be more careful in eating those calories back (which is why I tend to deliberately "under-log" such activities, both by intensity and time, when I chose to log them), but that doesn't mean that they don't "count." My opinion is that, if I feel like I actually had a workout from doing the activity (comparing how I feel to what it's like after a good cardio/lifting session at the gym), I'm going to count it as a workout for the day. Especially if it leaves me feeling like I would be overworking things to then go to the gym.
That said, I do agree that it is a valid point to raise when someone says "Help! I can't lose!" My advise is generally to tighten up their food logging and make sure that they are not overestimating exercise calories. But if everything else is going well (weight loss, etc), then it shouldn't be an issue.
because we are not talking about purposeful exercise...something done to increase your health and fitness levels.
not sure why people are confusing the two things.
Exercise done for the sake of exercise and non exercise activity done because it is being done...and probably won't be done again for a while if ever.
and my post readily explains why I don't do it myself and why I don't recommend it.
but what it comes down to really is this...if you aren't in a deficit none of it will help you lose...the exercise nor the life activity (what I will call it from now on)
But from a calories burnt perspective, who cares? I walked 15K steps Saturday golfing. Have not golfed in months. Why would that be different from going on a 10K walk for exercise?
I don't get the distinction.
because your walk was steady state cardio vs Golf (aka standing around waiting for next hole, swinging club, standing around, carry a bag, stand around more etc.)
I expect the only time anyone's heart rate goes up in golf is when they want to throw their club due to a piss poor shot...
I am not saying that there are not exceptions but I still say these random activities that are done like "heavy cleaning" or "tilling a garden" or "throwing in wood" should not be logged as exercise to gain extra food to eat.
In the long run it will not help you lose weight and in fact could hinder it if you get to deep down that hole where you start logging taking the dog out to poo as a walk...esp since people tend to overestimate activity and effort is often exaggerate (I worked really hard, drenched in sweat to prove it)
But as I have said on more than one post about this...it's an individual choice and it's apparently unpopular...who knew.
ETA: I am not trying to discourage physical activity such as tilling etc. as it has it's benefits I suspect mine helps keep me in balance as my logging isn't that great while in maintenance.
For people who are looking for a minimalist approach , below is the bottom line from Garmin Connect. You can create exercise sessions that will capture your stats for that given period of time (a few hundred calories are included here from exercise) and the rest is just incidental activity picked up from wearing the tracker. Since I'm in maintenance, this was my calories threshold for yesterday.
1 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
6 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »@SezxyStef
I don't get your point of view. If someone is on this site and using the MFP way of losing weight, then any activity over what the activity level they have set should be taking into account regardless of if it is exercise or extra cleaning (in the case of the post you are referring to, 3.5 hours of heavy cleaning at an animal shelter).
Yeah, this. If your level of activity = sedentary and you are actually doing activities that would be active 2 of 7 days, it would make sense to log them, whatever type of activities they are.
I personally preferred to handle daily activity things by having a Fitbit (initially) and then just setting a non sedentary activity level, but if you don't have a consistent activity level or a Fitbit I think it's fine to log back extra activity.
If it's like something one day a month, yes, there's no need to log it, it's a bonus and may compensate for an extra sedentary day somewhere, but if you want to eat a little extra after an exhausting day of yard work or running around setting up for and hosting a big event or whatever, no harm to that either, as it's not much different than someone who is usually sedentary getting dragged on a 12 mile charity walk (which I'd log in that case).
In fact, I think it is better to log it as best you can. Otherwise the tendency would be to have a treat, or a couple of beers and end up consuming more than the activity warranted. Log it, have an appropriate treat and still keep your deficit.
This makes total sense. I hadn't thought of it that way, but psychologically I bet you are right for a lot of people.6 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
I do
No
Anything I do that is not sitting on my backside helps my fitness. Yes, even spading and tilling our extremely heavy clay soil.
I only log what is out of the norm. All other household/living activity gets added in to my steps so yes, I get extra calories.
It neither makes or breaks my weight loss because I pay attention to both calories in and calories out and make adjustments as needed. Working very well so far.
10 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »apparently another unpopular opinion I have is not logging things like "cleaning" or "gardening" but only purposeful exercise done with intent on improving health and fitness....
Not to cross threads but the thread wasn't about normal level of house hold chores.
Stated as you have above I would agree with you.
Agreed and I should have clarified more with "extra cleaning" but for me Gardening did that since it's not a constant everyday affair.
but regardless I don't think cleaning, throwing in wood or anything not done to improve health and fitness should be logged for extra calories...
As a general rule, I agree with you. Daily household chores do not get counted. The once-in-a-while deep cleaning gets accounted for in my steps anyway. The only thing I have logged was a few weeks ago when I set up my brand new perennial garden. 3 hours of spading, tilling, composting, planting and mulching took a lot of effort. You bet I was going to take credit for it (although I only claimed one hour of the three).
I have a neighbor who gave me a half face cord of chopped wood. If I was to chop my own, yes that would get logged. I have no problem if people log household work that is very infrequent, takes a lot of effort, and burns more than the usual calories. Otherwise, no.
hence my assumption my stance is unpopular.
I have this stance for a reason too...
When I was fat and getting fatter I did all this stuff too. Throw in wood, did the gardens, created new ones by hand...all that stuff...I stayed fat. It didn't help me lose weight.
Even after I lost the weight and was in maintenance last summer I thought lets see how it will impact my days shovelling mulch, weeding my flowers in the spring, doing the wood...by tracking it.
It added the calories I ate them sometimes, sometimes I didn't just like before...nothing changed...and that's my point.
Even those "extra chores" we do maybe 1x a year or 2x a year or even maybe a couple times a month (shovelling driveway of snow) does not impact weight loss...
I find the bolded part a bit perplexing whenever I see that claim of "I did it when I was fat so it shouldn't count." There are plenty of people who did some sort of regular exercise, whether it was walking, running, lifting, or some other fitness program, before they started losing weight. I even know some overweight people who start exercise program to feel better, not to lose weight. And most of us would agree that, regardless of the type of exercise, it's CI vs CO (and generally monitoring or controlling CI) that makes the difference in weight loss.
Why, then, is heavy-duty cleaning or yard work so frequently discounted as a type of exercise? Like most people in this particular discussion, I'm not meaning the day-to-day upkeep, but things like tilling or digging, hauling, moving furniture, etc. Granted, it is harder to accurately track calories burned and one must be more careful in eating those calories back (which is why I tend to deliberately "under-log" such activities, both by intensity and time, when I chose to log them), but that doesn't mean that they don't "count." My opinion is that, if I feel like I actually had a workout from doing the activity (comparing how I feel to what it's like after a good cardio/lifting session at the gym), I'm going to count it as a workout for the day. Especially if it leaves me feeling like I would be overworking things to then go to the gym.
That said, I do agree that it is a valid point to raise when someone says "Help! I can't lose!" My advise is generally to tighten up their food logging and make sure that they are not overestimating exercise calories. But if everything else is going well (weight loss, etc), then it shouldn't be an issue.
because we are not talking about purposeful exercise...something done to increase your health and fitness levels.
not sure why people are confusing the two things.
Exercise done for the sake of exercise and non exercise activity done because it is being done...and probably won't be done again for a while if ever.
and my post readily explains why I don't do it myself and why I don't recommend it.
but what it comes down to really is this...if you aren't in a deficit none of it will help you lose...the exercise nor the life activity (what I will call it from now on)
But from a calories burnt perspective, who cares? I walked 15K steps Saturday golfing. Have not golfed in months. Why would that be different from going on a 10K walk for exercise?
I don't get the distinction.
Yeah. I had errands to run and I did them on foot. Took me nearly two hours and I've clocked my pace at about 3.25 mph before, but I round down to 3.0 to allow for things like traffic lights, forgetting to look at my watch when I got into the checkout line and estimating how long I was at rest, etc. I admit I walk as much as I can, now, as opposed to taking transit, so I guess, technically, you can make a case for it being both 'for the sake of exercise' and 'non-exercise activity'. But bottom line? That's a 115-minute walk, no matter why I took it and I'm eating back half of those calories even if it wasn't on a treadmill.13 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
I do
No
Anything I do that is not sitting on my backside helps my fitness. Yes, even spading and tilling our extremely heavy clay soil.
I only log what is out of the norm. All other household/living activity gets added in to my steps so yes, I get extra calories.
It neither makes or breaks my weight loss because I pay attention to both calories in and calories out and make adjustments as needed. Working very well so far.
I think my point is being missed on purpose...
No one is 100% accurate in logging...we can't be, we can do what we can but in the long run it's all just a guesstimate and usually people are on the wrong side of it
No you don't need exercise to lose weight
and the question was "was it done to improve your health and/or fitness" and you don't till for that you till to have a garden, to mix the soil etc...it might help it a bit but it wasn't done for that sole purpose which is what exercise is...done for the sole purpose of increasing health and/or fitness.
anyway I won't be changing people's minds they have their own way which is fine, great even...
the difference here is I can say I see why people see it the other way...I don't agree but I can see why...8 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
I do
No
Anything I do that is not sitting on my backside helps my fitness. Yes, even spading and tilling our extremely heavy clay soil.
I only log what is out of the norm. All other household/living activity gets added in to my steps so yes, I get extra calories.
It neither makes or breaks my weight loss because I pay attention to both calories in and calories out and make adjustments as needed. Working very well so far.
I think my point is being missed on purpose...
No one is 100% accurate in logging...we can't be, we can do what we can but in the long run it's all just a guesstimate and usually people are on the wrong side of it
No you don't need exercise to lose weight
and the question was "was it done to improve your health and/or fitness" and you don't till for that you till to have a garden, to mix the soil etc...it might help it a bit but it wasn't done for that sole purpose which is what exercise is...done for the sole purpose of increasing health and/or fitness.
.
Yes it was. I could have hired it done but chose not to so I could get more activity in.5 -
VintageFeline wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »shinedowness1 wrote: »What I do is basically have women's multivitamin pills, oatmeal, protein, and bananas in the morning. That usually stops me from eating things that cause me to overindulge throughout the day. My snacks, lunches, and dinners consist of a mixture of foods. That way I am not eating repetitively so much. Foods high in vitamins, minerals, and protein are what I scavenge for. I try to have foods that are not genetically modified, processed so much, and doesn't have too much sugar, fat, etc. to insure my body.
don't have a varied diet do you then if that is one of the conditions...
You don't have to have Cheeto's, pop, etc to have a varied diet.
Someone who avoids processed food is going to be eliminating a lot more than Cheetos and soda, especially if they are also eliminating foods that are higher in sugar and fat as well.
Possibly not.
I am told quite often how limited my gluten free ketogenic diet is. It isn't. I eat beef, lamb, seafood, fish, pork, chicken, turkey, bison, eggs, dairy, berries, coconut, olives, nuts (macadamia, cashew, etc), seeds (flax, ciha, hemp, pumpkin, etc), peanuts, and veggies (greens, peppers, onions, mushrooms, celery, broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, snap peas, etc). It does not feel limited. If avoid grains and sugar I consider it a plus - nutritionally speaking, neither are great.
If one does not have a gluten issue, there is nothing nutritionally bad about grains. Quite the opposite, many whole grains are very nutritionally dense while providing a good source of fiber. Barley and brown rice (which is gluten free) are 2 good examples.
Beyond fibre, grains are not a great source of nutrition. Mediocre to poor for many grains, especially once they are processed into flours. That's why wheat flour is "enriched". Other flours usually aren't even enriched.
Nutritionally speaking (vitamins and minerals), veggies and animal products are superior to grains. IMO
I looked up a random grain that I eat frequently, oats, and I can see that it has calcium, a lot of iron, B-6, and a lot of magnesium. It's a good source of protein and fiber as well.
Would I live on just oats? No. Is it the most nutrient dense food in my pantry? Probably not. But I wouldn't call it mediocre to poor. This just doesn't make sense to me.
If I had to build a very limited diet to meet my nutritional needs, oats would be a better choice than many vegetables that I eat frequently.
Plus, starches fuel my workouts. Largely my porridge because I tend to workout after eating it. So even if for nothing other than calories, grains are not mediocre.
QFT. I need starches (and honestly do prefer whole grains, tubers, and legumes to be the source) to fuel my activity levels.
I have autoimmune conditions that bring fatigue along for the ride as a nasty companion. The best way to manage fatigue is through exercise. The best way to fuel exercise is with carbohydrates.
When I first started dieting, I ate a moderate level of carbs and rarely included grains because I didn't have the calorie allowance for them. As my activity levels increased, I needed the boost that starches gave me to fuel that activity.
I'm eating a bowl full of oatmeal with raspberries, flax meal, and greek yogurt right now. I'm having brown basmati rice with dinner.
I ran 2.5 miles this morning and walked briskly for 3 and will be lifting once this oatmeal settles. I expect tomorrow morning's run to be spectatcular.3 -
-
Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
I do
No
Anything I do that is not sitting on my backside helps my fitness. Yes, even spading and tilling our extremely heavy clay soil.
I only log what is out of the norm. All other household/living activity gets added in to my steps so yes, I get extra calories.
It neither makes or breaks my weight loss because I pay attention to both calories in and calories out and make adjustments as needed. Working very well so far.
I think my point is being missed on purpose...
No one is 100% accurate in logging...we can't be, we can do what we can but in the long run it's all just a guesstimate and usually people are on the wrong side of it
No you don't need exercise to lose weight
and the question was "was it done to improve your health and/or fitness" and you don't till for that you till to have a garden, to mix the soil etc...it might help it a bit but it wasn't done for that sole purpose which is what exercise is...done for the sole purpose of increasing health and/or fitness.
anyway I won't be changing people's minds they have their own way which is fine, great even...
the difference here is I can say I see why people see it the other way...I don't agree but I can see why...
Why does the logging of activity calories burned have to be used solely for something that's being done to improve health or fitness?
If that's a rule you want to apply to your own logging, that's cool, but can't you see that it's really not cool to expect everyone else to apply that same rule to their own logging?
My Fitbit logs extra activity as calories out. It doesn't make the discrimination between purposeful exercise and NEAT. It sends and adjustment to MFP for calories out for anything I burned beyond my activity setting. I see no need for people logging activity manually to do anything differently. If something goes above and beyond their activity setting for calories out, they should account for it in some way. IF THEY CHOOSE.
It's fine if your experience didn't bring anything to bear on your weight, but others have said that they've had success accounting for incidental increases in NEAT.
How about you do you?9 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
I do
No
Anything I do that is not sitting on my backside helps my fitness. Yes, even spading and tilling our extremely heavy clay soil.
I only log what is out of the norm. All other household/living activity gets added in to my steps so yes, I get extra calories.
It neither makes or breaks my weight loss because I pay attention to both calories in and calories out and make adjustments as needed. Working very well so far.
I think my point is being missed on purpose...
No one is 100% accurate in logging...we can't be, we can do what we can but in the long run it's all just a guesstimate and usually people are on the wrong side of it
No you don't need exercise to lose weight
and the question was "was it done to improve your health and/or fitness" and you don't till for that you till to have a garden, to mix the soil etc...it might help it a bit but it wasn't done for that sole purpose which is what exercise is...done for the sole purpose of increasing health and/or fitness.
anyway I won't be changing people's minds they have their own way which is fine, great even...
the difference here is I can say I see why people see it the other way...I don't agree but I can see why...
I do see why you see it your way. If someone is basically sedentary but going out of their way to log every little thing to get more calories, it can result in them eating too much. It may suggest that they are being unrealistic about what is already included even in a sedentary TDEE or about how much they are burning from cooking dinner or whatever.
If you don't eat less on a day where you are extra sedentary but hasten to log and eat back calories for a slightly more active day, then that could cause a problem.
But I think it's at least as common to be getting a calorie count based on "sedentary" when you are not really or to be logging these things more accurately. Or to jokingly log "50 calories for making an effort to keep my patience with my teenage daughter" as a joke and cover for going over 50 cals when they know they are over in reality. Or to log 1000 calories for an hours doing weights or a 55 min Zumba class or 500 calories for some yoga. So I'd be inclined to look at results rather than have a hard and fast rule.4 -
What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Eat Less
Exercise4 -
Whether the exercise is "purposeful" or not, the calories get burned regardless.
I have plenty of occasional activities that although not done in a mindset of "Hey, let me clean out the garage to burn some calories!" still burn the calories. My body doesn't know the difference because of intent.
So yes, I log the occasional "non-purposeful" exercise if it is of a nature, endurance and extent that would matter.13 -
Jonesuna64 wrote: »What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Eat Less
Exercise
I feel personally attacked by this opinion.20 -
raven3lise wrote: »Jonesuna64 wrote: »What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Eat Less
Exercise
I feel personally attacked by this opinion.
Next on the Discovery Channel...."When opinions attack"
19 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »
okay then let me ask you a couple of questions then.
how many people log their food accurately? (guesstimate)
Do you need physical activity to lose weight?
was is done to improve your health and/or fitness? (if yes then it's exercise)
If all are answered no or none..then there is why I make the distinction, because that activity is moot when it comes down to it and in the larger scheme of things that one activity is not going to make or break your weight loss but if you log them all that could break it.
To me it makes sense to you maybe not...
I get what you are saying, and I agree, it is a personal decision--everyone's body is going to respond differently, and people should be cautious about logging something that they might not be burning. If it's a half hour of light weeding or planting, it's not going to be a significant burn.
For me, post-kids-and-weight-gain, even before I started weighing/tracking calories on MFP, every summer I would lose a considerable amount of weight (going from a size 12 to a size 10; one summer a size 8) with my only activity being gardening. Of course, once that activity stopped in the winter I would go back to a size 12, because I did not adapt my eating habits. Thank God for MFP, where I had the tools I needed to maintain natural summer loss for the winter.
So, gardening represents a considerable portion of my calorie burn, both during my losing period, and recomp (now at size 6) over the past year+.
The people on my friends list know that, especially in the spring and early summer, I am posting out "Gardening, 8 hours, 2400 calories burned," especially on the weekends, but even on a lot of the weekdays I will be working from when I get home till it gets too dark--4 or 5 hours or so. It is frequent enough and long enough that it represents a considerable caloric output, but not consistent enough that I would care to set my "normal activity" to that level. But that work HAS to be fueled in order for me to be an effective peasant.
Granted, I have a fairly unique situation, with 7000 square feet under cultivation (across 3 gardens) and doing everything by hand and hand tools: digging, flipping compost, hauling around buckets and large cans of water and wet straw bales ("farmer carry")--if you think about it, even weeding and harvesting is a series of @ss to grass bodyweight squats. I definitely classify what I do as "for health and fitness": it's a free outdoor gym that additionally produces beautiful flowers, a pleasant landscape, a couple hundred pounds of valuable organic produce, and psychological therapy, all rolled into one.
I have "DB woodchoppers" come up every few weeks in my lifting program, and while I do them, I always feel like such a tool, because it is such a patently fake replacement for the actual functional work that people used to do back when just about everyone was thin. Give me a maul, a big stack of logs, and a beautiful fall afternoon any day. (Note: I do NOT feel the same way about trading in deadlifts for a nasty hot afternoon spent baling hay.
)
Of course, if I ever wanted to get absolutely shredded and clearly define my abs, I would have to make adjustments, but as a 44-year old mom, I'm pretty happy with where I'm at, other than the bottoms of my arms being a little too jiggly, but I don't think much can be done about that, alas.14
This discussion has been closed.
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