Ladies - Receiving Unwanted "Attention"
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Rosemary7391 wrote: »I'm pretty sure it isn't legal to carry pepper spray in the UK - classed as a firearm? And really, I wouldn't want to.
Wow. I did not know that. I'm a big fan of all things British, but boy am I glad to live in the USA if it isn't legal to carry pepper spray in the UK.
I'd call a canister of pepper spray a minimum level of self defense. Why would it be illegal? It's not lethal, like a gun can be...0 -
Rosemary7391 wrote: »I'm pretty sure it isn't legal to carry pepper spray in the UK - classed as a firearm? And really, I wouldn't want to.
Wow. I did not know that. I'm a big fan of all things British, but boy am I glad to live in the USA if it isn't legal to carry pepper spray in the UK.
I'd call a canister of pepper spray a minimum level of self defense. Why would it be illegal? It's not lethal, like a gun can be...
I wouldn't want to live somewhere where I needed to carry a weapon for a "minimum level of self defense" ! Seriously, that seems terrible. How often have you had to use it?5 -
Run like there's a cute guy in front of you and a creepy dude behind you. I just ignore and keep moving (but I do carry mace). One of the Ragnar relay races last year a female runner was doing her segment alone at night and was attacked during the race, so not unheard of, scary.6
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alwaysbloated wrote: »I used to get jealous of my slim, pretty female friends who got cat called and stuff because I was jealous and saw it as a compliment
i can totally relate to this realization process. growing up with a striking sister during an era where not just men but the entire adult population felt like little girls' looks were a public commodity to be commented on and discussed openly, and all. i did feel like 'attention' was this uninflected thing that just had to feel better than being ignored.
i got cured of that idea in [canadian city that i won't name] in my early 20's. i still can't explain it, but i think i reminded them of some who-knows-what who was on tv or somthing. it was surreal. i spent an academic year there and NEVER left my apartment without being hailed or accosted or hit on by at least one random man. not even swaddled up in an arctic parka going to the end of the block for a pound of butter. i had people yell to get my attention from across the street and then dodge traffic to catch up and try to strike up a 'conversation' with me.
i don't think it became fully and terribly awful to me until it became clear that it wasn't just for some generic reason like being a woman. i actually confidently thought 'they just do it to everyone'. then i got aware that i was being nailed as non-local by my facial features and thought it was anglo-fever. then i made several female anglo friends, and i found out that it wasn't that eitehr. they made it clear to me that this didn't happen to them; it was 'me'. and they thought it was hilarious, which was pretty horrible too, because it was never hilarious to me. it made me feel deformed and abnormal. and hunted.
i'd always thought that i would love to be that girl in the commercials who just 'has' something that effortlessly draws everybody's attention wherever she goes. but taht's the closest i've ever been before or since to living that dream and it sucked harder than i can find words to express.5 -
Rosemary7391 wrote: »I'm pretty sure it isn't legal to carry pepper spray in the UK - classed as a firearm? And really, I wouldn't want to.
Wow. I did not know that. I'm a big fan of all things British, but boy am I glad to live in the USA if it isn't legal to carry pepper spray in the UK.
I'd call a canister of pepper spray a minimum level of self defense. Why would it be illegal? It's not lethal, like a gun can be...
Pepper spray, guns or any weapon is banned in Australia too. I think farmers are allowed to have rifles, not 100% sure on that one?? I've never even seen a gun in real life. The only people who are legally allowed to carry a hand gun are cops.1 -
I really hate these kind of stories. My gender is absolutely deplorable sometimes. This *kitten* is inexcusable.6
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Nope. I don't need to adjust how I look to avoid being harassed. I do get that there are certain things, like, staying off the phone, not appearing distracted, that are common sense safety measures. But I do not need to learn to have a "resting *kitten* face" so that I am not harassed. People need to learn that they don't get to harass. Also, women aren't prey.You appear to the casual observer to be one of the "sheep" so the wolves mark you as prey.
It is about body language mostly, especially with women.
It revolves around how you are carrying yourself and the attitude you are projecting.
If you want the wolves to leave you alone, look like one of the sheepdogs instead of a sheep.
Those clowns will not stop because they feel safe, empowered and in control.
Some of them may even think they are flattering you to get a date.
You on the other hand come across as a victim, even in this post.
My wife (who has fought several grown men full-contact and been in more than one altercation while out drinking in bars) calls it a "perpetual b1tch-face". Move and look like you don't want people messing with you and many won't.
Of course, being able to back that up helps with your self-confidence.
My wife may be a little too eager to start stuff sometimes...
Full Disclosure: I have taught Personal Protection, Combatives and Defensive Tactics for about 30 years.
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You have ZERO responsibility to do anything so that you won't be harassed. ZERO. One more time for the people in the back, ZERO. We are not wolves. We are human beings with an ability to control ourselves. Those men are the ones that need to adjust their behavior. We're evolved enough to know the difference between a compliment and harassment. It's happened to me too. It's not you it's them.Strong_Savannah wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »So, short answer is that there is no way to break the ice unless you see them regularly. Sounds lonely and boring, but I think I got it.
P.S. - I think we all agree that it's never acceptable to interrupt someone during a workout. Headphones are a clear "Do not disturb" sign. SHAME!
You can break the ice without seeing someone regularly. It's just not a good idea to interrupt someone's workout. I would prefer not to be hit on at the gym, but if you could catch me before or after my workout I wouldn't be as frustrated as if you stopped me mid run. You don't have to say anything witty or try and compliment me. A simple "hi, I'm so and so and I was wondering if you would like to grab lunch/coffee/etc. sometime?" would suffice.
Exactly. IF a person truly had sincere, heart-felt interest to compliment/approach/introduce themselves to someone, then they would also think of the situation and context and notice when it would be an appropriate time to do so. Not interrupting someone.
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I'm with you girl. I was obese for quite some time and forgot what it was like to get a lot of attention from the general male population. Since losing 40 pounds, I get some sort of annoying encounter almost every time I go running. I run in my neighborhood so I'm not even in "public" like at a park, but my neighborhood is still being developed so there is a lot of traffic just looking at the new houses or lots.
Since I run almost every day, I am very familiar with the people and cars in my neighborhood. I was pushing the stroller and I see a car I've never seen before with the windows down blaring music with two men in the car. They pull up behind me and just drive slowly behind me down an entire street!!!! I called my husband to drive over and he parked up ahead of me, got out, started kissing me, and the car pulled in a driveway and turned around quickly!
It was quite funny but it was also scary...
I'm just trying to exercise, I don't want any attention from ANYONE!!1 -
Can you please re-read your comment? This is a perfect example. "It [harassment] happens to all pretty women around the world...it's just how the cookie crumbles". Absolutely not. This is not a complimentary statement. It's creepy. Also it is suggesting that she just suck it up. Nope. This is not okay. The entire comment is an example of the problem.Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
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You have ZERO responsibility to do anything so that you won't be harassed. ZERO. One more time for the people in the back, ZERO. We are not wolves. We are human beings with an ability to control ourselves. Those men are the ones that need to adjust their behavior. We're evolved enough to know the difference between a compliment and harassment. It's happened to me too. It's not you it's them.
Amen.
This is a problem with my gender, not yours
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Can we all agree that harassment is not an issue of attractiveness? So now if a woman is "pretty" she has to deal with harassment. And if she isn't getting harassed she isn't "pretty"? This is madness. It's simple:
1. There's a difference between wanting to meet someone and harassing them. If you want to introduce yourself and ask them out, cool. Don't pretend you don't know that you're not being complimentary. You do. And we know you do.
2. Under no circumstances is it okay to whistle at, holler at, scream sexual remarks at...etc. You know that. So just don't do it.
3. It is not my responsibility to prevent you from doing the above. And I do not need to accept it because "that's the way it is".
4. Treat women with respect (and it goes both ways). You are not entitled to comment just because a woman is in front of you. Control yourself.9 -
GemstoneofHeart wrote: »I called my husband to drive over and he parked up ahead of me, got out, started kissing me, and the car pulled in a driveway and turned around quickly!
i get why this is funny in a way that is 'on' the creepers, but i always hate this kind of story (nothing personal here). it's basically 'ha ha, they ran off when they realised i was already some other guy's property'.
like, i've never known why that's a victory. i don't want to be 'property'. i'm not interested in being the non-agent object in some stupid turf war between stupid men, and i *kitten* HATE the fact that men who won't leave you alone when it's 'just' your own personal preference that they should leave you alone . . . will go ahead and leave you alone because some other guy wants them to leave you alone.
i mean, what's the message here? 'we don't give a damn what YOU want, because you don't have a voice. but glob forbid we step on another guy's turf'.
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canadianlbs wrote: »GemstoneofHeart wrote: »I called my husband to drive over and he parked up ahead of me, got out, started kissing me, and the car pulled in a driveway and turned around quickly!
i get why this is funny in a way that is 'on' the creepers, but i always hate this kind of story (nothing personal here). it's basically 'ha ha, they ran off when they realised i was already some other guy's property'.
like, i've never known why that's a victory. i don't want to be 'property'. i'm not interested in being the non-agent object in some stupid turf war between stupid men, and i *kitten* HATE the fact that men who won't leave you alone when it's 'just' your own personal preference that they should leave you alone . . . will go ahead and leave you alone because some other guy wants them to leave you alone.
i mean, what's the message here? 'we don't give a damn what YOU want, because you don't have a voice. but glob forbid we step on another guy's turf'.
But when someone is harassing you with your child present, you need backup. So that's what I did. I can't flip off or yell an expletive with my toddler there.1 -
I think it's probably that they have been subjected to all of the examples we're sharing and are responding with defense (some here have even suggested that's what we should do). I think you're good. That's polite and appropriate. Just know that there is a very good chance the guy that just past her called her "hot lips" and when she complained he called her a "*kitten*". But you are not doing anything wrong.I have an etiquette question. When I'm out running or on the bike and pass another runner/cyclist coming in the opposite direction, I'll give a little head nod and sometimes maybe a "hey". I do the exact same for men and women and always thought it was just a polite acknowledgement that doesn't really mean anything. Men almost always return the nod, but lately I've come to notice that often women either just keep focused straight ahead and completely ignore it, or (occasionally) give me a hard, "don't *kitten* with me or I'll cut you" staredown.
So, is that harassment? Should I stop doing that? Maybe only acknowledge men and ignore women?
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WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Good luck with that.
We domesticated wolves by killing off all of the ones that we were trying to TAME but which continued to demonstrate traits we did not like.
So are you suggesting we start bumping off all guys that cat-call at women?
We are emasculating many men as it is, but it sounds as if you think it should be taken even further
Do you somehow believe genetically-coded behavior (no matter how poorly or inappropriately it is applied) that was ingrained since the dawn of the human race is going to be overridden by a sensitivity class or something?
That is more emasculation, and it may even work, eventually.
Decades of sensitivity training for the whole planet.
But what are you going to do until then?
I offered advice -as a professional in the field- free of charge.
Do with it what you will.
Cool mansplaining, bro.
As "a professional in the field", I'm sure you'd be happy to hear from me, a professional in the field of human behaviour, psychology and psychopathology, that street harassment is not genetically-coded behaviour. It's socially constructed, as can be seen from the many, many societies where it doesn't occur.
I suggest you think for a while about why it's so important to you to have this argument. What is this thread raising in you?9 -
Rosemary7391 wrote: »
Wow. I did not know that. I'm a big fan of all things British, but boy am I glad to live in the USA if it isn't legal to carry pepper spray in the UK.
I'd call a canister of pepper spray a minimum level of self defense. Why would it be illegal? It's not lethal, like a gun can be...
Hmm...per capita, firearm homicides are 138 times higher in the US than UK, violent crime is 4 times higher, homicide is 4 times higher...I'd take my chances in the UK without the pepper spray.15 -
GemstoneofHeart wrote: »But when someone is harassing you with your child present, you need backup. So that's what I did. I can't flip off or yell an expletive with my toddler there.
oh sure. i get that you do what you need to do. i'm just saying that i don't think of it as a 'victory'. it's just 'do what you need to do'.
i commented because so many of the times i hear stories with that kind of ending it does feel like the teller thinks she scored some kind of point and somehow 'fixed' the whole problem with it. my own feeling is that deals with the immediate symptom but it still panders to the whole mental disease of 'women aren't real people who have their own rights'.
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Rosemary7391 wrote: »
Wow. I did not know that. I'm a big fan of all things British, but boy am I glad to live in the USA if it isn't legal to carry pepper spray in the UK.
I'd call a canister of pepper spray a minimum level of self defense. Why would it be illegal? It's not lethal, like a gun can be...
Hmm...per capita, firearm homicides are 138 times higher in the US than UK, violent crime is 4 times higher, homicide is 4 times higher...I'd take my chances in the UK without the pepper spray.
Point taken.
But, I do live in the USA in a big city and I have been assaulted. So, I'm glad I have the right to defend myself with a weapon if need be. I guess it's an American thing, but I can't imagine self-defense tools being illegal.4
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